I have been using a nokia n900 as a PDA for a while now, and I have been using csound on it.

Here are some random notes about that experience for anyone who has or is considering getting an n900.

I am using the csound provided by easydebian installed via the default apt sources (synaptic or aptitude or apt-get will all work just fine for getting csound onto the device, once you have easydebian installed). This installs a 64 bit build of version 5.08.

Here are the command line flags I use for real time:
-d
-m 67
-o dac:hw:0,0
-B 4096
-b 4096

I needed to run "alsamixer -c 0" to get at the volume controls for csound - I needed to turn up "PCM" quite a bit. The main hardware volume buttons on the device do not affect csound's output volume, which is was quite low for me before I adjusted the PCM control.

The only sr I could get to work so far is 44.1k

If you set -b or -B too low, csound will continue to run but you will lose all real time audio output. If you flash your device with the "power user kernel" you could probably lower those -b and -B settings, but I am paranoid about the slightest chance of bricking my device, which I bought with cash out of pocket (cell phone carriers don't want to provide a wide open hackable Linux device like the n900 it seems).

I have not yet tried checking if csound's output can go to the built in FM transmitter on the n900 in real time (the way the media player does). I will update when I have experimented with this - so far headphones or my practice amp in a wired setup have been fine.


I use csound directly in the terminal program (in a "debian terminal" chroot that easydebian provides access to), there isn't any advantage I have found to using the lxde conventional desktop for csound.

The n900 uses X11 for windowing, so the FLTK opcodes work just fine. The FLknob widget is very comfortable as a performance control with the touch screen - much easier than using a knob with a mouse in my experience. I am excited to try making an opcode that will access the built in tilt sensor (used for automatic portrait/landscape switching etc.). I also think I will try accessing the front camera as a simple light controller for amplitude (finger over lens to mute, and modulating amplitude theramin style).

It is a nice challenge figuring out interesting synthesis methods and opcodes for the relatively limited CPU and ram of this device.

Another pipe dream / what to do next time I get laid off for a few months idea I have is an opcode to directly synthesize mp3 format data (not converting synthesized sound, but synthesizing mp3 data directly), since an mp3 frame is in a DCT frequency/amplitude pair format as I understand it, this should provide low power additive synthesis via the hardware mp3 decoder on the device.

PS:

Steven Yi, it would be great if you made a lighter weight version of blue with a 800x600 resolution friendly / touch screen friendly GUI. I managed to almost get blue usable, except it is so reliant on right click, which is not possible on the n900 (I guess there is probably some Xorg.conf trick I have not figured out yet - but a GUI that does not need right clicks would be much appreciated). I know this is probably a whole lot of work, and someone else could do it I guess, if we get around to it :)


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Hi,

Thanks for the report. This is very interesting! Any chance of seeing
it in action in a little video?

Cheers,
Andres

On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 8:42 AM, Justin Glenn Smith  wrote:
> I have been using a nokia n900 as a PDA for a while now, and I have been using csound on it.
>
> Here are some random notes about that experience for anyone who has or is considering getting an n900.
>
> I am using the csound provided by easydebian installed via the default apt sources (synaptic or aptitude or apt-get will all work just fine for getting csound onto the device, once you have easydebian installed). This installs a 64 bit build of version 5.08.
>
> Here are the command line flags I use for real time:
> -d
> -m 67
> -o dac:hw:0,0
> -B 4096
> -b 4096
>
> I needed to run "alsamixer -c 0" to get at the volume controls for csound - I needed to turn up "PCM" quite a bit. The main hardware volume buttons on the device do not affect csound's output volume, which is was quite low for me before I adjusted the PCM control.
>
> The only sr I could get to work so far is 44.1k
>
> If you set -b or -B too low, csound will continue to run but you will lose all real time audio output. If you flash your device with the "power user kernel" you could probably lower those -b and -B settings, but I am paranoid about the slightest chance of bricking my device, which I bought with cash out of pocket (cell phone carriers don't want to provide a wide open hackable Linux device like the n900 it seems).
>
> I have not yet tried checking if csound's output can go to the built in FM transmitter on the n900 in real time (the way the media player does). I will update when I have experimented with this - so far headphones or my practice amp in a wired setup have been fine.
>
>
> I use csound directly in the terminal program (in a "debian terminal" chroot that easydebian provides access to), there isn't any advantage I have found to using the lxde conventional desktop for csound.
>
> The n900 uses X11 for windowing, so the FLTK opcodes work just fine. The FLknob widget is very comfortable as a performance control with the touch screen - much easier than using a knob with a mouse in my experience. I am excited to try making an opcode that will access the built in tilt sensor (used for automatic portrait/landscape switching etc.). I also think I will try accessing the front camera as a simple light controller for amplitude (finger over lens to mute, and modulating amplitude theramin style).
>
> It is a nice challenge figuring out interesting synthesis methods and opcodes for the relatively limited CPU and ram of this device.
>
> Another pipe dream / what to do next time I get laid off for a few months idea I have is an opcode to directly synthesize mp3 format data (not converting synthesized sound, but synthesizing mp3 data directly), since an mp3 frame is in a DCT frequency/amplitude pair format as I understand it, this should provide low power additive synthesis via the hardware mp3 decoder on the device.
>
> PS:
>
> Steven Yi, it would be great if you made a lighter weight version of blue with a 800x600 resolution friendly / touch screen friendly GUI. I managed to almost get blue usable, except it is so reliant on right click, which is not possible on the n900 (I guess there is probably some Xorg.conf trick I have not figured out yet - but a GUI that does not need right clicks would be much appreciated). I know this is probably a whole lot of work, and someone else could do it I guess, if we get around to it :)
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
>


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            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
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Yeah, I am working on an instrument today, that hopefully I will be able to get a videorecording of soon.

Andres Cabrera wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Thanks for the report. This is very interesting! Any chance of seeing
> it in action in a little video?
> 
> Cheers,
> Andres
> 
> On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 8:42 AM, Justin Glenn Smith  wrote:
>> I have been using a nokia n900 as a PDA for a while now, and I have been using csound on it.
>>
>> Here are some random notes about that experience for anyone who has or is considering getting an n900.
>>
>> I am using the csound provided by easydebian installed via the default apt sources (synaptic or aptitude or apt-get will all work just fine for getting csound onto the device, once you have easydebian installed). This installs a 64 bit build of version 5.08.
>>
>> Here are the command line flags I use for real time:
>> -d
>> -m 67
>> -o dac:hw:0,0
>> -B 4096
>> -b 4096
>>
>> I needed to run "alsamixer -c 0" to get at the volume controls for csound - I needed to turn up "PCM" quite a bit. The main hardware volume buttons on the device do not affect csound's output volume, which is was quite low for me before I adjusted the PCM control.
>>
>> The only sr I could get to work so far is 44.1k
>>
>> If you set -b or -B too low, csound will continue to run but you will lose all real time audio output. If you flash your device with the "power user kernel" you could probably lower those -b and -B settings, but I am paranoid about the slightest chance of bricking my device, which I bought with cash out of pocket (cell phone carriers don't want to provide a wide open hackable Linux device like the n900 it seems).
>>
>> I have not yet tried checking if csound's output can go to the built in FM transmitter on the n900 in real time (the way the media player does). I will update when I have experimented with this - so far headphones or my practice amp in a wired setup have been fine.
>>
>>
>> I use csound directly in the terminal program (in a "debian terminal" chroot that easydebian provides access to), there isn't any advantage I have found to using the lxde conventional desktop for csound.
>>
>> The n900 uses X11 for windowing, so the FLTK opcodes work just fine. The FLknob widget is very comfortable as a performance control with the touch screen - much easier than using a knob with a mouse in my experience. I am excited to try making an opcode that will access the built in tilt sensor (used for automatic portrait/landscape switching etc.). I also think I will try accessing the front camera as a simple light controller for amplitude (finger over lens to mute, and modulating amplitude theramin style).
>>
>> It is a nice challenge figuring out interesting synthesis methods and opcodes for the relatively limited CPU and ram of this device.
>>
>> Another pipe dream / what to do next time I get laid off for a few months idea I have is an opcode to directly synthesize mp3 format data (not converting synthesized sound, but synthesizing mp3 data directly), since an mp3 frame is in a DCT frequency/amplitude pair format as I understand it, this should provide low power additive synthesis via the hardware mp3 decoder on the device.
>>
>> PS:
>>
>> Steven Yi, it would be great if you made a lighter weight version of blue with a 800x600 resolution friendly / touch screen friendly GUI. I managed to almost get blue usable, except it is so reliant on right click, which is not possible on the n900 (I guess there is probably some Xorg.conf trick I have not figured out yet - but a GUI that does not need right clicks would be much appreciated). I know this is probably a whole lot of work, and someone else could do it I guess, if we get around to it :)
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>>
>>
> 
> 
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>             https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
> 
> 



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Sorry, still no satisfactory video, but I used the monitor and fout opcodes to record this improvisation - composed 100% real time (no editing or trimming etc. - you will notice one of the oscillators is set at too high a level at the beginning).

There were some audio dropouts here and there that are not captured in the recording, since the sound file was generated directly from csound. The synth was designed to generate audio where dropouts would be as unnoticeable as possible as a compositional criterion though (even with a single oscils running and nothing else, there are occasional breakups in the sound - especially when the widgets are dragged onscreen, not to mention using any other apps).

http://soundcloud.com/information/n900-improv-2

Justin Glenn Smith wrote:
> Yeah, I am working on an instrument today, that hopefully I will be able to get a videorecording of soon.
> 
> Andres Cabrera wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Thanks for the report. This is very interesting! Any chance of seeing
>> it in action in a little video?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Andres
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 8:42 AM, Justin Glenn Smith  wrote:
>>> I have been using a nokia n900 as a PDA for a while now, and I have been using csound on it.
>>>
>>> Here are some random notes about that experience for anyone who has or is considering getting an n900.
>>>
>>> I am using the csound provided by easydebian installed via the default apt sources (synaptic or aptitude or apt-get will all work just fine for getting csound onto the device, once you have easydebian installed). This installs a 64 bit build of version 5.08.
>>>
>>> Here are the command line flags I use for real time:
>>> -d
>>> -m 67
>>> -o dac:hw:0,0
>>> -B 4096
>>> -b 4096
>>>
>>> I needed to run "alsamixer -c 0" to get at the volume controls for csound - I needed to turn up "PCM" quite a bit. The main hardware volume buttons on the device do not affect csound's output volume, which is was quite low for me before I adjusted the PCM control.
>>>
>>> The only sr I could get to work so far is 44.1k
>>>
>>> If you set -b or -B too low, csound will continue to run but you will lose all real time audio output. If you flash your device with the "power user kernel" you could probably lower those -b and -B settings, but I am paranoid about the slightest chance of bricking my device, which I bought with cash out of pocket (cell phone carriers don't want to provide a wide open hackable Linux device like the n900 it seems).
>>>
>>> I have not yet tried checking if csound's output can go to the built in FM transmitter on the n900 in real time (the way the media player does). I will update when I have experimented with this - so far headphones or my practice amp in a wired setup have been fine.
>>>
>>>
>>> I use csound directly in the terminal program (in a "debian terminal" chroot that easydebian provides access to), there isn't any advantage I have found to using the lxde conventional desktop for csound.
>>>
>>> The n900 uses X11 for windowing, so the FLTK opcodes work just fine. The FLknob widget is very comfortable as a performance control with the touch screen - much easier than using a knob with a mouse in my experience. I am excited to try making an opcode that will access the built in tilt sensor (used for automatic portrait/landscape switching etc.). I also think I will try accessing the front camera as a simple light controller for amplitude (finger over lens to mute, and modulating amplitude theramin style).
>>>
>>> It is a nice challenge figuring out interesting synthesis methods and opcodes for the relatively limited CPU and ram of this device.
>>>
>>> Another pipe dream / what to do next time I get laid off for a few months idea I have is an opcode to directly synthesize mp3 format data (not converting synthesized sound, but synthesizing mp3 data directly), since an mp3 frame is in a DCT frequency/amplitude pair format as I understand it, this should provide low power additive synthesis via the hardware mp3 decoder on the device.
>>>
>>> PS:
>>>
>>> Steven Yi, it would be great if you made a lighter weight version of blue with a 800x600 resolution friendly / touch screen friendly GUI. I managed to almost get blue usable, except it is so reliant on right click, which is not possible on the n900 (I guess there is probably some Xorg.conf trick I have not figured out yet - but a GUI that does not need right clicks would be much appreciated). I know this is probably a whole lot of work, and someone else could do it I guess, if we get around to it :)
>>>
>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>             https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>>
>>
> 
> 



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Hi Justin,

I'm not sure how I could really modify blue to work in a way for this
form factor.  I've been considering making mini-blue apps that would
work with blue projects but would focus on certain compositional
tasks, i.e. sound design, pattern design, project management, etc.  I
haven't had a chance to think about it in a while, but I think the
form factor of a device needs to be considered carefully and the
application design should do what is best for that form factor.

But time is always a factor! :)  If anyone is interested who may want
to collaborate on an application, I'd be more than happy to discuss.

Thanks!
steven


On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 3:42 AM, Justin Glenn Smith  wrote:
> I have been using a nokia n900 as a PDA for a while now, and I have been using csound on it.
>
> Here are some random notes about that experience for anyone who has or is considering getting an n900.
>
> I am using the csound provided by easydebian installed via the default apt sources (synaptic or aptitude or apt-get will all work just fine for getting csound onto the device, once you have easydebian installed). This installs a 64 bit build of version 5.08.
>
> Here are the command line flags I use for real time:
> -d
> -m 67
> -o dac:hw:0,0
> -B 4096
> -b 4096
>
> I needed to run "alsamixer -c 0" to get at the volume controls for csound - I needed to turn up "PCM" quite a bit. The main hardware volume buttons on the device do not affect csound's output volume, which is was quite low for me before I adjusted the PCM control.
>
> The only sr I could get to work so far is 44.1k
>
> If you set -b or -B too low, csound will continue to run but you will lose all real time audio output. If you flash your device with the "power user kernel" you could probably lower those -b and -B settings, but I am paranoid about the slightest chance of bricking my device, which I bought with cash out of pocket (cell phone carriers don't want to provide a wide open hackable Linux device like the n900 it seems).
>
> I have not yet tried checking if csound's output can go to the built in FM transmitter on the n900 in real time (the way the media player does). I will update when I have experimented with this - so far headphones or my practice amp in a wired setup have been fine.
>
>
> I use csound directly in the terminal program (in a "debian terminal" chroot that easydebian provides access to), there isn't any advantage I have found to using the lxde conventional desktop for csound.
>
> The n900 uses X11 for windowing, so the FLTK opcodes work just fine. The FLknob widget is very comfortable as a performance control with the touch screen - much easier than using a knob with a mouse in my experience. I am excited to try making an opcode that will access the built in tilt sensor (used for automatic portrait/landscape switching etc.). I also think I will try accessing the front camera as a simple light controller for amplitude (finger over lens to mute, and modulating amplitude theramin style).
>
> It is a nice challenge figuring out interesting synthesis methods and opcodes for the relatively limited CPU and ram of this device.
>
> Another pipe dream / what to do next time I get laid off for a few months idea I have is an opcode to directly synthesize mp3 format data (not converting synthesized sound, but synthesizing mp3 data directly), since an mp3 frame is in a DCT frequency/amplitude pair format as I understand it, this should provide low power additive synthesis via the hardware mp3 decoder on the device.
>
> PS:
>
> Steven Yi, it would be great if you made a lighter weight version of blue with a 800x600 resolution friendly / touch screen friendly GUI. I managed to almost get blue usable, except it is so reliant on right click, which is not possible on the n900 (I guess there is probably some Xorg.conf trick I have not figured out yet - but a GUI that does not need right clicks would be much appreciated). I know this is probably a whole lot of work, and someone else could do it I guess, if we get around to it :)
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
>


Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
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800x600 is big enough for blue to be quite usable (I have a netbook with the same resolution, and use blue on it). My problem with using it on the touch screen device is the reliance on right-clicks. Just having a synonym for rightclick in the UI would be extremely useful (is double-click already used for other tasks? triple-click?).

Steven Yi wrote:
> Hi Justin,
> 
> I'm not sure how I could really modify blue to work in a way for this
> form factor.  I've been considering making mini-blue apps that would
> work with blue projects but would focus on certain compositional
> tasks, i.e. sound design, pattern design, project management, etc.  I
> haven't had a chance to think about it in a while, but I think the
> form factor of a device needs to be considered carefully and the
> application design should do what is best for that form factor.
> 
> But time is always a factor! :)  If anyone is interested who may want
> to collaborate on an application, I'd be more than happy to discuss.
> 
> Thanks!
> steven
> 
> 
> On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 3:42 AM, Justin Glenn Smith  wrote:
>> I have been using a nokia n900 as a PDA for a while now, and I have been using csound on it.
>>
>> Here are some random notes about that experience for anyone who has or is considering getting an n900.
>>
>> I am using the csound provided by easydebian installed via the default apt sources (synaptic or aptitude or apt-get will all work just fine for getting csound onto the device, once you have easydebian installed). This installs a 64 bit build of version 5.08.
>>
>> Here are the command line flags I use for real time:
>> -d
>> -m 67
>> -o dac:hw:0,0
>> -B 4096
>> -b 4096
>>
>> I needed to run "alsamixer -c 0" to get at the volume controls for csound - I needed to turn up "PCM" quite a bit. The main hardware volume buttons on the device do not affect csound's output volume, which is was quite low for me before I adjusted the PCM control.
>>
>> The only sr I could get to work so far is 44.1k
>>
>> If you set -b or -B too low, csound will continue to run but you will lose all real time audio output. If you flash your device with the "power user kernel" you could probably lower those -b and -B settings, but I am paranoid about the slightest chance of bricking my device, which I bought with cash out of pocket (cell phone carriers don't want to provide a wide open hackable Linux device like the n900 it seems).
>>
>> I have not yet tried checking if csound's output can go to the built in FM transmitter on the n900 in real time (the way the media player does). I will update when I have experimented with this - so far headphones or my practice amp in a wired setup have been fine.
>>
>>
>> I use csound directly in the terminal program (in a "debian terminal" chroot that easydebian provides access to), there isn't any advantage I have found to using the lxde conventional desktop for csound.
>>
>> The n900 uses X11 for windowing, so the FLTK opcodes work just fine. The FLknob widget is very comfortable as a performance control with the touch screen - much easier than using a knob with a mouse in my experience. I am excited to try making an opcode that will access the built in tilt sensor (used for automatic portrait/landscape switching etc.). I also think I will try accessing the front camera as a simple light controller for amplitude (finger over lens to mute, and modulating amplitude theramin style).
>>
>> It is a nice challenge figuring out interesting synthesis methods and opcodes for the relatively limited CPU and ram of this device.
>>
>> Another pipe dream / what to do next time I get laid off for a few months idea I have is an opcode to directly synthesize mp3 format data (not converting synthesized sound, but synthesizing mp3 data directly), since an mp3 frame is in a DCT frequency/amplitude pair format as I understand it, this should provide low power additive synthesis via the hardware mp3 decoder on the device.
>>
>> PS:
>>
>> Steven Yi, it would be great if you made a lighter weight version of blue with a 800x600 resolution friendly / touch screen friendly GUI. I managed to almost get blue usable, except it is so reliant on right click, which is not possible on the n900 (I guess there is probably some Xorg.conf trick I have not figured out yet - but a GUI that does not need right clicks would be much appreciated). I know this is probably a whole lot of work, and someone else could do it I guess, if we get around to it :)
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>>
>>
> 
> 
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>             https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
> 
> 



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            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
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One microtonal composer I corresponded with seemed to consider timbre-matching techniques as somehow "cheating", in that in his opinion you could make "anything sound good". Reflecting on that comment I decided to create this piece.
N-trench is an experimental composition that attempts to use timbre-matching techniques to create a "tuning progression" using three tunings usually considered incompatible, 11-TET, 12-TET, and 13-TET. Your comments, negative or positive, are most appreciated.
http://soundcloud.com/brian-wong/n-trench
Brian Wong 		 	   		  

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the experiment sounds really good! i wonder who your correspondant is
- thats one of the most hilarious statements i've ever heard. its
saying that using your intelligence to compose is cheating, because
you might produce something that sounds good. :-0

On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 8:31 AM, Brian Wong  wrote:
>
> One microtonal composer I corresponded with seemed to consider timbre-matching techniques as somehow "cheating", in that in his opinion you could make "anything sound good". Reflecting on that comment I decided to create this piece.
> N-trench is an experimental composition that attempts to use timbre-matching techniques to create a "tuning progression" using three tunings usually considered incompatible, 11-TET, 12-TET, and 13-TET. Your comments, negative or positive, are most appreciated.
> http://soundcloud.com/brian-wong/n-trench
> Brian Wong


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> One microtonal composer I corresponded with seemed to consider timbre-matching techniques as somehow "cheating", in that in his opinion you could make "anything sound good". Reflecting on that comment I decided to create this piece.
> N-trench is an experimental composition that attempts to use timbre-matching techniques to create a "tuning progression" using three tunings usually considered incompatible, 11-TET, 12-TET, and 13-TET. Your comments, negative or positive, are most appreciated.
> http://soundcloud.com/brian-wong/n-trench
> Brian Wong 		 	   		

I don't know if what I feel is what your composer friend had in mind, 
but indeed there is a trick in your use of tuning progression: the 
bells/piano notes that stand out are blurred by the background drone, 
which has the effect of eliminating (to me, of course) the sense of 
progression itself.

So the piece sounds nice indeed, but it is also fairly static. When you 
deliberately shift the listener attention from pitch space to timbral 
space, I understand a microtonal composer can feel frustrated.

Nice work though, of course.

best,

Stef


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Dante,
I strongly suspect that the composer in question was simply not willing to spend the time and effort involved, and rationalized that unwillingness into a form of aesthetic bias. I won't post his name, but a couple of people here who were also members of the now defunct Xenharmonic Alliance website will doubtless recall our somewhat contentious exchange of viewpoints.
Brian

----------------------------------------
> From: danterosati@gmail.com
> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 09:18:12 -0500
> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
> Subject: [Csnd] Re: N-trench
>
> the experiment sounds really good! i wonder who your correspondant is
> - thats one of the most hilarious statements i've ever heard. its
> saying that using your intelligence to compose is cheating, because
> you might produce something that sounds good. :-0
>
> On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 8:31 AM, Brian Wong  wrote:
> >
> > One microtonal composer I corresponded with seemed to consider timbre-matching techniques as somehow "cheating", in that in his opinion you could make "anything sound good". Reflecting on that comment I decided to create this piece.
> > N-trench is an experimental composition that attempts to use timbre-matching techniques to create a "tuning progression" using three tunings usually considered incompatible, 11-TET, 12-TET, and 13-TET. Your comments, negative or positive, are most appreciated.
> > http://soundcloud.com/brian-wong/n-trench
> > Brian Wong
>
>
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Brian Wong wrote:
> I strongly suspect that the composer in question was simply not willing to spend the time and effort involved, and rationalized that unwillingness into a form of aesthetic bias. I won't post his name, but a couple of people here who were also members of the now defunct Xenharmonic Alliance website will doubtless recall our somewhat contentious exchange of viewpoints.
>   


Hi Brian,

I enjoyed the piece, the progression of intonation was clearly audible. 
I'm surprised music this conservative would antagonize anyone.

Best,

dp



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Stef,
I would agree with your assessment of the piece as being "fairly static", and that the tricks used to some extent blur the progression itself. The blurring is deliberate, and was in my opinion necessary to make such incompatible tunings coexist in the same progression. The result is an odd mixture of timbre-matching and timbre-blurring techniques.
There are actually numerous tricks used to make the progression "work", to whatever extent it does.
The first is that the notes of the drone overlap to a very varied extent, meaning that notes from the 12-TET "bar" can extend temporally into the following 11-TET bar, thus much of the piece (probably about 30-40%) is actually "blurred" between two tunings with respect to the drone. 
The chords for the bell/piano instrument are specifically chosen to be largely inharmonic, to minimize the fact that 12-TET has very close matches to harmonic pitches which the other two tunings lack.
The granular synth with pitch randomization is meant to encourage the listener into perceiving its departure as a return to "purer" notes.
The melodic progressions are based conceptually on mathematical relationships of the octave.notenumber type, not harmonic relationships, thus are easily rendered and recognizable in each tuning. However I do think that this approach did result to a degree in a "static" or perhaps "formulaic" sounding melody.
Interesting point about shifting the listener attention from pitch space to timbral space. Of course I can only know firsthand how I personally perceive that differentiation, and must rely on the reactions and comments of others to get insight into how it is perceived by other listeners.
Thanks for the comments!

Brian

----------------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 17:34:50 +0100
> From: lecteur@zogotounga.net
> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
> Subject: [Csnd] Re: N-trench
>
> > One microtonal composer I corresponded with seemed to consider timbre-matching techniques as somehow "cheating", in that in his opinion you could make "anything sound good". Reflecting on that comment I decided to create this piece.
> > N-trench is an experimental composition that attempts to use timbre-matching techniques to create a "tuning progression" using three tunings usually considered incompatible, 11-TET, 12-TET, and 13-TET. Your comments, negative or positive, are most appreciated.
> > http://soundcloud.com/brian-wong/n-trench
> > Brian Wong
>
> I don't know if what I feel is what your composer friend had in mind,
> but indeed there is a trick in your use of tuning progression: the
> bells/piano notes that stand out are blurred by the background drone,
> which has the effect of eliminating (to me, of course) the sense of
> progression itself.
>
> So the piece sounds nice indeed, but it is also fairly static. When you
> deliberately shift the listener attention from pitch space to timbral
> space, I understand a microtonal composer can feel frustrated.
>
> Nice work though, of course.
>
> best,
>
> Stef
>
>
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Dave,
I have certainly encountered varying degrees of resistance to timbre-matching concepts from some microtonal composers, often based on different aesthetic criteria, such as focus on emulation of acoustic instruments, or a stronger preference for dissonance/wildness. I expect my postings were more antagonistic than my music in the case mentioned. ;)
Brian

----------------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 17:47:08 -0500
> From: dlphillips@woh.rr.com
> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
> Subject: [Csnd] Re: RE: Re: N-trench
>
> Brian Wong wrote:
> > I strongly suspect that the composer in question was simply not willing to spend the time and effort involved, and rationalized that unwillingness into a form of aesthetic bias. I won't post his name, but a couple of people here who were also members of the now defunct Xenharmonic Alliance website will doubtless recall our somewhat contentious exchange of viewpoints.
> >
>
>
> Hi Brian,
>
> I enjoyed the piece, the progression of intonation was clearly audible.
> I'm surprised music this conservative would antagonize anyone.
>
> Best,
>
> dp
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
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>
 		 	   		  

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