Has anyone seen this?

http://gitorious.org/pdlib/pages/Libpd

I wonder where they got the idea from. ;)

Victor




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I dunno, releasing an API is a pretty crazy step.
:-p
Greg

On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 11:54 PM, Victor Lazzarini
 wrote:
> Has anyone seen this?
>
> http://gitorious.org/pdlib/pages/Libpd
>
> I wonder where they got the idea from. ;)
>
> Victor
>
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
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> csound"
>
>



-- 
identi.ca/reverendgreg


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I guess that must have looked like that back in 2003(?) with Csound 4...

Victor
On 21 Dec 2010, at 00:25, Greg Schroeder wrote:

> I dunno, releasing an API is a pretty crazy step.
> :-p
> Greg
>
> On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 11:54 PM, Victor Lazzarini
>  wrote:
>> Has anyone seen this?
>>
>> http://gitorious.org/pdlib/pages/Libpd
>>
>> I wonder where they got the idea from. ;)
>>
>> Victor
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
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>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
>> "unsubscribe
>> csound"
>>
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> identi.ca/reverendgreg
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
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> "unsubscribe csound"
>



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The cool thing about the api is that they ported it to android, so you
can use pd patches as the basis for android softsynths. I'd like to do
the same thing for the csound api. The only wrinkle is that you only
have a real native audio library for android 2.3+, I have to figure
out how they ported it to android versions below 2.3 because only one
phone (nexus s) has 2.3 installed.

On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 4:38 PM, Victor Lazzarini
 wrote:
> I guess that must have looked like that back in 2003(?) with Csound 4...
>
> Victor
> On 21 Dec 2010, at 00:25, Greg Schroeder wrote:
>
>> I dunno, releasing an API is a pretty crazy step.
>> :-p
>> Greg
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 11:54 PM, Victor Lazzarini
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Has anyone seen this?
>>>
>>> http://gitorious.org/pdlib/pages/Libpd
>>>
>>> I wonder where they got the idea from. ;)
>>>
>>> Victor
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
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>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>>> csound"
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> identi.ca/reverendgreg
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
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>> csound"
>>
>
>
>
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> csound"
>
>


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I remember reading about a PD library built for the iPhone (aka IOS) 
maybe a year ago; it was cited as being used in at least one app.

Any library for IOS has to be statically linked with an app - no 
3rd-party dlls allowed. Ironically, this would be rather easier with the 
old monolithic 4.x version of Csound than with the new 
everything-is-a-plugin-module version. I don't know whether Android 
impoises a simila restriction, but assuming each app is similarly 
self-contained in a sandbox, there is not so obviously any advantage to 
dlls anyway. So ther could yet be some "traction" in a static-linkable 
verison of Csound5; perhaps in a thinned-down form.


Richard Dobson



On 21/12/2010 00:58, Brian Redfern wrote:
> The cool thing about the api is that they ported it to android, so you
> can use pd patches as the basis for android softsynths. I'd like to do
> the same thing for the csound api. The only wrinkle is that you only
> have a real native audio library for android 2.3+, I have to figure
> out how they ported it to android versions below 2.3 because only one
> phone (nexus s) has 2.3 installed.
>



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Android takes a different approach from ios. With audio apps you would
write the audio part in native code and the user interface is built
with java.

You use .so libraries for the native code, and then have to wrap java
around the .so library.

I know java and know some c, so now to do the project I want I have to
learn to create java native interfaces to native code.

Fortunately there are tools and documentation, so its difficult now
but not near "black magic" that it was before they released the native
sdk. You had to be able to read the source-code to android itself to
figure it out before, so now its finally possible for non gurus to get
into doing native coding on android.


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It turns out you can use the new audio library on older android, the
new ndk goes back to android 1.5 as long you don't write activities in
c/c++. That's only supported on 2.3, so running a csound service in
the background won't work, but passing interface input from java into
csndlib should work, even on older phones.

On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 8:04 PM, Brian Redfern  wrote:
> Android takes a different approach from ios. With audio apps you would
> write the audio part in native code and the user interface is built
> with java.
>
> You use .so libraries for the native code, and then have to wrap java
> around the .so library.
>
> I know java and know some c, so now to do the project I want I have to
> learn to create java native interfaces to native code.
>
> Fortunately there are tools and documentation, so its difficult now
> but not near "black magic" that it was before they released the native
> sdk. You had to be able to read the source-code to android itself to
> figure it out before, so now its finally possible for non gurus to get
> into doing native coding on android.
>


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It shouldn't be too much work to pull off, unless I'm mistaken I think
I can just add the code to hook into opensl for audio and midi input
and output and then cross compile for arm with the android ndk. I
switched from mac to linux so I won't be working on an ios version,
the approach for ios would have to be completely different from
android.

I'm going to make everything open source so other people can also
figure out how to use csound on android to write high quality soft
synths that will easily best anything currently in android if it can
be made to work.

On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 9:49 PM, Brian Redfern  wrote:
> It turns out you can use the new audio library on older android, the
> new ndk goes back to android 1.5 as long you don't write activities in
> c/c++. That's only supported on 2.3, so running a csound service in
> the background won't work, but passing interface input from java into
> csndlib should work, even on older phones.
>
> On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 8:04 PM, Brian Redfern  wrote:
>> Android takes a different approach from ios. With audio apps you would
>> write the audio part in native code and the user interface is built
>> with java.
>>
>> You use .so libraries for the native code, and then have to wrap java
>> around the .so library.
>>
>> I know java and know some c, so now to do the project I want I have to
>> learn to create java native interfaces to native code.
>>
>> Fortunately there are tools and documentation, so its difficult now
>> but not near "black magic" that it was before they released the native
>> sdk. You had to be able to read the source-code to android itself to
>> figure it out before, so now its finally possible for non gurus to get
>> into doing native coding on android.
>>
>


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Not totally accurate, you can write a native services that will work
back to 1.5 with a jni interface to the services java library.

The tts service has no front end on its own, but takes input from
other applications, so theoretically it should be possible to do the
same with a native csound service, where you could take osc or midi
input from other front ends and load and compile csd files that are
sent to it.

On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 10:11 PM, Brian Redfern  wrote:
> It shouldn't be too much work to pull off, unless I'm mistaken I think
> I can just add the code to hook into opensl for audio and midi input
> and output and then cross compile for arm with the android ndk. I
> switched from mac to linux so I won't be working on an ios version,
> the approach for ios would have to be completely different from
> android.
>
> I'm going to make everything open source so other people can also
> figure out how to use csound on android to write high quality soft
> synths that will easily best anything currently in android if it can
> be made to work.
>
> On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 9:49 PM, Brian Redfern  wrote:
>> It turns out you can use the new audio library on older android, the
>> new ndk goes back to android 1.5 as long you don't write activities in
>> c/c++. That's only supported on 2.3, so running a csound service in
>> the background won't work, but passing interface input from java into
>> csndlib should work, even on older phones.
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 8:04 PM, Brian Redfern  wrote:
>>> Android takes a different approach from ios. With audio apps you would
>>> write the audio part in native code and the user interface is built
>>> with java.
>>>
>>> You use .so libraries for the native code, and then have to wrap java
>>> around the .so library.
>>>
>>> I know java and know some c, so now to do the project I want I have to
>>> learn to create java native interfaces to native code.
>>>
>>> Fortunately there are tools and documentation, so its difficult now
>>> but not near "black magic" that it was before they released the native
>>> sdk. You had to be able to read the source-code to android itself to
>>> figure it out before, so now its finally possible for non gurus to get
>>> into doing native coding on android.
>>>
>>
>


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Ross Bencina has just started a thread on the portaudio list about 
Android audio.  This may be a more generally productive route in the 
longer term than trying to add native Android audio directly to Csound.

Much seems to depend on how well devices improve on Android's modest 
latency requirements of each-way 45ms "or less".


Richard Dobson

On 21/12/2010 04:04, Brian Redfern wrote:
> Android takes a different approach from ios. With audio apps you would
> write the audio part in native code and the user interface is built
> with java.
>
..



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For my own project I'm just going to use the alsa native code as a
guide to adding code to support for native audio, or to see if its
even possible to do what I want to do.

First I need to try to just build the pdlib to see how its done with
working code, and then use that as a guide to do the same for csound.

On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 4:24 AM, Richard Dobson
 wrote:
> Ross Bencina has just started a thread on the portaudio list about Android
> audio.  This may be a more generally productive route in the longer term
> than trying to add native Android audio directly to Csound.
>
> Much seems to depend on how well devices improve on Android's modest latency
> requirements of each-way 45ms "or less".
>
>
> Richard Dobson
>
> On 21/12/2010 04:04, Brian Redfern wrote:
>>
>> Android takes a different approach from ios. With audio apps you would
>> write the audio part in native code and the user interface is built
>> with java.
>>
> ..
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
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> csound"
>
>


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I think you need to use something called AudioTrack,
http://developer.android.com/reference/android/media/AudioTrack.html

Victor
On 21 Dec 2010, at 17:12, Brian Redfern wrote:

> For my own project I'm just going to use the alsa native code as a
> guide to adding code to support for native audio, or to see if its
> even possible to do what I want to do.
>
> First I need to try to just build the pdlib to see how its done with
> working code, and then use that as a guide to do the same for csound.
>
> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 4:24 AM, Richard Dobson
>  wrote:
>> Ross Bencina has just started a thread on the portaudio list about  
>> Android
>> audio.  This may be a more generally productive route in the longer  
>> term
>> than trying to add native Android audio directly to Csound.
>>
>> Much seems to depend on how well devices improve on Android's  
>> modest latency
>> requirements of each-way 45ms "or less".
>>
>>
>> Richard Dobson
>>
>> On 21/12/2010 04:04, Brian Redfern wrote:
>>>
>>> Android takes a different approach from ios. With audio apps you  
>>> would
>>> write the audio part in native code and the user interface is built
>>> with java.
>>>
>> ..
>>
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
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>> "unsubscribe
>> csound"
>>
>>
>
>
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> "unsubscribe csound"
>



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One of my students here just wrote a fairly informative guide to
working with audio on the android. Once he has been awarded a grade
I'll ask him would he mind sharing it with the list.

Rory.




On 21 December 2010 17:26, Victor Lazzarini  wrote:
> I think you need to use something called AudioTrack,
> http://developer.android.com/reference/android/media/AudioTrack.html
>
> Victor
> On 21 Dec 2010, at 17:12, Brian Redfern wrote:
>
>> For my own project I'm just going to use the alsa native code as a
>> guide to adding code to support for native audio, or to see if its
>> even possible to do what I want to do.
>>
>> First I need to try to just build the pdlib to see how its done with
>> working code, and then use that as a guide to do the same for csound.
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 4:24 AM, Richard Dobson
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Ross Bencina has just started a thread on the portaudio list about
>>> Android
>>> audio.  This may be a more generally productive route in the longer term
>>> than trying to add native Android audio directly to Csound.
>>>
>>> Much seems to depend on how well devices improve on Android's modest
>>> latency
>>> requirements of each-way 45ms "or less".
>>>
>>>
>>> Richard Dobson
>>>
>>> On 21/12/2010 04:04, Brian Redfern wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Android takes a different approach from ios. With audio apps you would
>>>> write the audio part in native code and the user interface is built
>>>> with java.
>>>>
>>> ..
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
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>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
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>>> csound"
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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>> csound"
>>
>
>
>
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> csound"
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>


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That's for java programs, that must be what some people are using to
do simple java based analog synths. The native sdk uses opensl es for
its audio library.

The native library uses

On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 9:26 AM, Victor Lazzarini
 wrote:
> I think you need to use something called AudioTrack,
> http://developer.android.com/reference/android/media/AudioTrack.html
>
> Victor
> On 21 Dec 2010, at 17:12, Brian Redfern wrote:
>
>> For my own project I'm just going to use the alsa native code as a
>> guide to adding code to support for native audio, or to see if its
>> even possible to do what I want to do.
>>
>> First I need to try to just build the pdlib to see how its done with
>> working code, and then use that as a guide to do the same for csound.
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 4:24 AM, Richard Dobson
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Ross Bencina has just started a thread on the portaudio list about
>>> Android
>>> audio.  This may be a more generally productive route in the longer term
>>> than trying to add native Android audio directly to Csound.
>>>
>>> Much seems to depend on how well devices improve on Android's modest
>>> latency
>>> requirements of each-way 45ms "or less".
>>>
>>>
>>> Richard Dobson
>>>
>>> On 21/12/2010 04:04, Brian Redfern wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Android takes a different approach from ios. With audio apps you would
>>>> write the audio part in native code and the user interface is built
>>>> with java.
>>>>
>>> ..
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>          https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>>> csound"
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
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>> csound"
>>
>
>
>
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>


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Apparently Opensl is just wrapper around AudioTrack.

Victor
On 21 Dec 2010, at 18:03, Brian Redfern wrote:

> That's for java programs, that must be what some people are using to
> do simple java based analog synths. The native sdk uses opensl es for
> its audio library.
>
> The native library uses
>
> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 9:26 AM, Victor Lazzarini
>  wrote:
>> I think you need to use something called AudioTrack,
>> http://developer.android.com/reference/android/media/AudioTrack.html
>>
>> Victor
>> On 21 Dec 2010, at 17:12, Brian Redfern wrote:
>>
>>> For my own project I'm just going to use the alsa native code as a
>>> guide to adding code to support for native audio, or to see if its
>>> even possible to do what I want to do.
>>>
>>> First I need to try to just build the pdlib to see how its done with
>>> working code, and then use that as a guide to do the same for  
>>> csound.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 4:24 AM, Richard Dobson
>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Ross Bencina has just started a thread on the portaudio list about
>>>> Android
>>>> audio.  This may be a more generally productive route in the  
>>>> longer term
>>>> than trying to add native Android audio directly to Csound.
>>>>
>>>> Much seems to depend on how well devices improve on Android's  
>>>> modest
>>>> latency
>>>> requirements of each-way 45ms "or less".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Richard Dobson
>>>>
>>>> On 21/12/2010 04:04, Brian Redfern wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Android takes a different approach from ios. With audio apps you  
>>>>> would
>>>>> write the audio part in native code and the user interface is  
>>>>> built
>>>>> with java.
>>>>>
>>>> ..
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>>          https://sourceforge.net/tracker/? 
>>>> group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
>>>> "unsubscribe
>>>> csound"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
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>>> group_id=81968&atid=564599
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>>> "unsubscribe
>>> csound"
>>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
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Its the other way around, AudioTrack is a just a wrapper around Opensl
using JNI. Audiotrack on its own allows you to add preset effects like
reverb. I think with Opensl you should be able to extend that and
write your own audio processors in native code and then write Java
wrappers in JNI to access custom effects.

On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 10:34 AM, Victor Lazzarini
 wrote:
> Apparently Opensl is just wrapper around AudioTrack.
>
> Victor
> On 21 Dec 2010, at 18:03, Brian Redfern wrote:
>
>> That's for java programs, that must be what some people are using to
>> do simple java based analog synths. The native sdk uses opensl es for
>> its audio library.
>>
>> The native library uses
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 9:26 AM, Victor Lazzarini
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> I think you need to use something called AudioTrack,
>>> http://developer.android.com/reference/android/media/AudioTrack.html
>>>
>>> Victor
>>> On 21 Dec 2010, at 17:12, Brian Redfern wrote:
>>>
>>>> For my own project I'm just going to use the alsa native code as a
>>>> guide to adding code to support for native audio, or to see if its
>>>> even possible to do what I want to do.
>>>>
>>>> First I need to try to just build the pdlib to see how its done with
>>>> working code, and then use that as a guide to do the same for csound.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 4:24 AM, Richard Dobson
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Ross Bencina has just started a thread on the portaudio list about
>>>>> Android
>>>>> audio.  This may be a more generally productive route in the longer
>>>>> term
>>>>> than trying to add native Android audio directly to Csound.
>>>>>
>>>>> Much seems to depend on how well devices improve on Android's modest
>>>>> latency
>>>>> requirements of each-way 45ms "or less".
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Richard Dobson
>>>>>
>>>>> On 21/12/2010 04:04, Brian Redfern wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Android takes a different approach from ios. With audio apps you would
>>>>>> write the audio part in native code and the user interface is built
>>>>>> with java.
>>>>>>
>>>>> ..
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>>>         https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body
>>>>> "unsubscribe
>>>>> csound"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>>          https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>>>> csound"
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>          https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>>> csound"
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>> csound"
>>
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
> csound"
>
>


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This is what I hear on the portaudio list, from someone who seems to  
know android audio:

"OpenSL is actually a wrapper over AudioTrack. AudioTrack is default
Android's implementation which is exposed to Java. There are no almost
any benefits when using OpenSL in terms of latency and performance.
Some performance improvements are due to no interaction with Java VM
through JNI. Also Dalvik's thread is not driving OpenSL and thus it
won't be interrupted by GC."

Myself, I have no experience of the matter.

Victor
On 21 Dec 2010, at 18:38, Brian Redfern wrote:

> Its the other way around, AudioTrack is a just a wrapper around Opensl
> using JNI. Audiotrack on its own allows you to add preset effects like
> reverb. I think with Opensl you should be able to extend that and
> write your own audio processors in native code and then write Java
> wrappers in JNI to access custom effects.
>
> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 10:34 AM, Victor Lazzarini
>  wrote:
>> Apparently Opensl is just wrapper around AudioTrack.
>>
>> Victor
>> On 21 Dec 2010, at 18:03, Brian Redfern wrote:
>>
>>> That's for java programs, that must be what some people are using to
>>> do simple java based analog synths. The native sdk uses opensl es  
>>> for
>>> its audio library.
>>>
>>> The native library uses
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 9:26 AM, Victor Lazzarini
>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I think you need to use something called AudioTrack,
>>>> http://developer.android.com/reference/android/media/ 
>>>> AudioTrack.html
>>>>
>>>> Victor
>>>> On 21 Dec 2010, at 17:12, Brian Redfern wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> For my own project I'm just going to use the alsa native code as a
>>>>> guide to adding code to support for native audio, or to see if its
>>>>> even possible to do what I want to do.
>>>>>
>>>>> First I need to try to just build the pdlib to see how its done  
>>>>> with
>>>>> working code, and then use that as a guide to do the same for  
>>>>> csound.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 4:24 AM, Richard Dobson
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ross Bencina has just started a thread on the portaudio list  
>>>>>> about
>>>>>> Android
>>>>>> audio.  This may be a more generally productive route in the  
>>>>>> longer
>>>>>> term
>>>>>> than trying to add native Android audio directly to Csound.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Much seems to depend on how well devices improve on Android's  
>>>>>> modest
>>>>>> latency
>>>>>> requirements of each-way 45ms "or less".
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Richard Dobson
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 21/12/2010 04:04, Brian Redfern wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Android takes a different approach from ios. With audio apps  
>>>>>>> you would
>>>>>>> write the audio part in native code and the user interface is  
>>>>>>> built
>>>>>>> with java.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ..
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>>>>         https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body
>>>>>> "unsubscribe
>>>>>> csound"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>>>          https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
>>>>> "unsubscribe
>>>>> csound"
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>>          https://sourceforge.net/tracker/? 
>>>> group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
>>>> "unsubscribe
>>>> csound"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/? 
>>> group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
>>> "unsubscribe
>>> csound"
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
>> "unsubscribe
>> csound"
>>
>>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
> "unsubscribe csound"
>



Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
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Yeah maybe we're talking about native audio track, wrapping c++ around
java sounds counter-intuitive, AudioTrack must be implemented in
native system code and then both libraries use it.

You can get performance benefits for audio processing and 3d animation
from native code, otherwise there are no benefits for most
applications, just where you're doing a lot of math.

For csndlib I'm using native code because otherwise I have to entirely
re-write csound in Java, which would probably not even be possible, at
least not without a huge amount of work.

I'm looking at what the pd people did and see if its possible to do
the same with csound. Otherwise I can always use pd instead, if its
not possible to use csound.


On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 11:05 AM, Victor Lazzarini
 wrote:
> This is what I hear on the portaudio list, from someone who seems to know
> android audio:
>
> "OpenSL is actually a wrapper over AudioTrack. AudioTrack is default
> Android's implementation which is exposed to Java. There are no almost
> any benefits when using OpenSL in terms of latency and performance.
> Some performance improvements are due to no interaction with Java VM
> through JNI. Also Dalvik's thread is not driving OpenSL and thus it
> won't be interrupted by GC."
>
> Myself, I have no experience of the matter.
>
> Victor
> On 21 Dec 2010, at 18:38, Brian Redfern wrote:
>
>> Its the other way around, AudioTrack is a just a wrapper around Opensl
>> using JNI. Audiotrack on its own allows you to add preset effects like
>> reverb. I think with Opensl you should be able to extend that and
>> write your own audio processors in native code and then write Java
>> wrappers in JNI to access custom effects.
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 10:34 AM, Victor Lazzarini
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Apparently Opensl is just wrapper around AudioTrack.
>>>
>>> Victor
>>> On 21 Dec 2010, at 18:03, Brian Redfern wrote:
>>>
>>>> That's for java programs, that must be what some people are using to
>>>> do simple java based analog synths. The native sdk uses opensl es for
>>>> its audio library.
>>>>
>>>> The native library uses
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 9:26 AM, Victor Lazzarini
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I think you need to use something called AudioTrack,
>>>>> http://developer.android.com/reference/android/media/AudioTrack.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Victor
>>>>> On 21 Dec 2010, at 17:12, Brian Redfern wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> For my own project I'm just going to use the alsa native code as a
>>>>>> guide to adding code to support for native audio, or to see if its
>>>>>> even possible to do what I want to do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> First I need to try to just build the pdlib to see how its done with
>>>>>> working code, and then use that as a guide to do the same for csound.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 4:24 AM, Richard Dobson
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ross Bencina has just started a thread on the portaudio list about
>>>>>>> Android
>>>>>>> audio.  This may be a more generally productive route in the longer
>>>>>>> term
>>>>>>> than trying to add native Android audio directly to Csound.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Much seems to depend on how well devices improve on Android's modest
>>>>>>> latency
>>>>>>> requirements of each-way 45ms "or less".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Richard Dobson
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 21/12/2010 04:04, Brian Redfern wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Android takes a different approach from ios. With audio apps you
>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>> write the audio part in native code and the user interface is built
>>>>>>>> with java.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>>>>>        https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body
>>>>>>> "unsubscribe
>>>>>>> csound"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>>>>         https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body
>>>>>> "unsubscribe
>>>>>> csound"
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>>>         https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body
>>>>> "unsubscribe
>>>>> csound"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>>          https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>>>> csound"
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>          https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>>> csound"
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>> csound"
>>
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
> csound"
>
>


Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

you could also try to use csoundapi~ in PD too. But that looks ever so  
cumbersome.

Victor
On 21 Dec 2010, at 19:06, Brian Redfern wrote:

> Yeah maybe we're talking about native audio track, wrapping c++ around
> java sounds counter-intuitive, AudioTrack must be implemented in
> native system code and then both libraries use it.
>
> You can get performance benefits for audio processing and 3d animation
> from native code, otherwise there are no benefits for most
> applications, just where you're doing a lot of math.
>
> For csndlib I'm using native code because otherwise I have to entirely
> re-write csound in Java, which would probably not even be possible, at
> least not without a huge amount of work.
>
> I'm looking at what the pd people did and see if its possible to do
> the same with csound. Otherwise I can always use pd instead, if its
> not possible to use csound.
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 11:05 AM, Victor Lazzarini
>  wrote:
>> This is what I hear on the portaudio list, from someone who seems  
>> to know
>> android audio:
>>
>> "OpenSL is actually a wrapper over AudioTrack. AudioTrack is default
>> Android's implementation which is exposed to Java. There are no  
>> almost
>> any benefits when using OpenSL in terms of latency and performance.
>> Some performance improvements are due to no interaction with Java VM
>> through JNI. Also Dalvik's thread is not driving OpenSL and thus it
>> won't be interrupted by GC."
>>
>> Myself, I have no experience of the matter.
>>
>> Victor
>> On 21 Dec 2010, at 18:38, Brian Redfern wrote:
>>
>>> Its the other way around, AudioTrack is a just a wrapper around  
>>> Opensl
>>> using JNI. Audiotrack on its own allows you to add preset effects  
>>> like
>>> reverb. I think with Opensl you should be able to extend that and
>>> write your own audio processors in native code and then write Java
>>> wrappers in JNI to access custom effects.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 10:34 AM, Victor Lazzarini
>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Apparently Opensl is just wrapper around AudioTrack.
>>>>
>>>> Victor
>>>> On 21 Dec 2010, at 18:03, Brian Redfern wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> That's for java programs, that must be what some people are  
>>>>> using to
>>>>> do simple java based analog synths. The native sdk uses opensl  
>>>>> es for
>>>>> its audio library.
>>>>>
>>>>> The native library uses
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 9:26 AM, Victor Lazzarini
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think you need to use something called AudioTrack,
>>>>>> http://developer.android.com/reference/android/media/AudioTrack.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Victor
>>>>>> On 21 Dec 2010, at 17:12, Brian Redfern wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For my own project I'm just going to use the alsa native code  
>>>>>>> as a
>>>>>>> guide to adding code to support for native audio, or to see if  
>>>>>>> its
>>>>>>> even possible to do what I want to do.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> First I need to try to just build the pdlib to see how its  
>>>>>>> done with
>>>>>>> working code, and then use that as a guide to do the same for  
>>>>>>> csound.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 4:24 AM, Richard Dobson
>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ross Bencina has just started a thread on the portaudio list  
>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>> Android
>>>>>>>> audio.  This may be a more generally productive route in the  
>>>>>>>> longer
>>>>>>>> term
>>>>>>>> than trying to add native Android audio directly to Csound.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Much seems to depend on how well devices improve on Android's  
>>>>>>>> modest
>>>>>>>> latency
>>>>>>>> requirements of each-way 45ms "or less".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Richard Dobson
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 21/12/2010 04:04, Brian Redfern wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Android takes a different approach from ios. With audio apps  
>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>> write the audio part in native code and the user interface  
>>>>>>>>> is built
>>>>>>>>> with java.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>>>>>>        https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body
>>>>>>>> "unsubscribe
>>>>>>>> csound"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>>>>>         https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body
>>>>>>> "unsubscribe
>>>>>>> csound"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>>>>         https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body
>>>>>> "unsubscribe
>>>>>> csound"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>>>          https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
>>>>> "unsubscribe
>>>>> csound"
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>>          https://sourceforge.net/tracker/? 
>>>> group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
>>>> "unsubscribe
>>>> csound"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/? 
>>> group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
>>> "unsubscribe
>>> csound"
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
>> "unsubscribe
>> csound"
>>
>>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
> "unsubscribe csound"
>



Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
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That would have to get ported to native android code to work, the
pdlib just lets you use a pd patch as the engine, but doesn't
necessarily include every external.

On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Victor Lazzarini
 wrote:
> you could also try to use csoundapi~ in PD too. But that looks ever so
> cumbersome.
>
> Victor
> On 21 Dec 2010, at 19:06, Brian Redfern wrote:
>
>> Yeah maybe we're talking about native audio track, wrapping c++ around
>> java sounds counter-intuitive, AudioTrack must be implemented in
>> native system code and then both libraries use it.
>>
>> You can get performance benefits for audio processing and 3d animation
>> from native code, otherwise there are no benefits for most
>> applications, just where you're doing a lot of math.
>>
>> For csndlib I'm using native code because otherwise I have to entirely
>> re-write csound in Java, which would probably not even be possible, at
>> least not without a huge amount of work.
>>
>> I'm looking at what the pd people did and see if its possible to do
>> the same with csound. Otherwise I can always use pd instead, if its
>> not possible to use csound.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 11:05 AM, Victor Lazzarini
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> This is what I hear on the portaudio list, from someone who seems to know
>>> android audio:
>>>
>>> "OpenSL is actually a wrapper over AudioTrack. AudioTrack is default
>>> Android's implementation which is exposed to Java. There are no almost
>>> any benefits when using OpenSL in terms of latency and performance.
>>> Some performance improvements are due to no interaction with Java VM
>>> through JNI. Also Dalvik's thread is not driving OpenSL and thus it
>>> won't be interrupted by GC."
>>>
>>> Myself, I have no experience of the matter.
>>>
>>> Victor
>>> On 21 Dec 2010, at 18:38, Brian Redfern wrote:
>>>
>>>> Its the other way around, AudioTrack is a just a wrapper around Opensl
>>>> using JNI. Audiotrack on its own allows you to add preset effects like
>>>> reverb. I think with Opensl you should be able to extend that and
>>>> write your own audio processors in native code and then write Java
>>>> wrappers in JNI to access custom effects.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 10:34 AM, Victor Lazzarini
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Apparently Opensl is just wrapper around AudioTrack.
>>>>>
>>>>> Victor
>>>>> On 21 Dec 2010, at 18:03, Brian Redfern wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> That's for java programs, that must be what some people are using to
>>>>>> do simple java based analog synths. The native sdk uses opensl es for
>>>>>> its audio library.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The native library uses
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 9:26 AM, Victor Lazzarini
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think you need to use something called AudioTrack,
>>>>>>> http://developer.android.com/reference/android/media/AudioTrack.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Victor
>>>>>>> On 21 Dec 2010, at 17:12, Brian Redfern wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For my own project I'm just going to use the alsa native code as a
>>>>>>>> guide to adding code to support for native audio, or to see if its
>>>>>>>> even possible to do what I want to do.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> First I need to try to just build the pdlib to see how its done with
>>>>>>>> working code, and then use that as a guide to do the same for
>>>>>>>> csound.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 4:24 AM, Richard Dobson
>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ross Bencina has just started a thread on the portaudio list about
>>>>>>>>> Android
>>>>>>>>> audio.  This may be a more generally productive route in the longer
>>>>>>>>> term
>>>>>>>>> than trying to add native Android audio directly to Csound.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Much seems to depend on how well devices improve on Android's
>>>>>>>>> modest
>>>>>>>>> latency
>>>>>>>>> requirements of each-way 45ms "or less".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Richard Dobson
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 21/12/2010 04:04, Brian Redfern wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Android takes a different approach from ios. With audio apps you
>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>> write the audio part in native code and the user interface is
>>>>>>>>>> built
>>>>>>>>>> with java.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>>>>>>>       https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>>>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body
>>>>>>>>> "unsubscribe
>>>>>>>>> csound"
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>>>>>>        https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body
>>>>>>>> "unsubscribe
>>>>>>>> csound"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>>>>>        https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body
>>>>>>> "unsubscribe
>>>>>>> csound"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>>>>         https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body
>>>>>> "unsubscribe
>>>>>> csound"
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>>>         https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body
>>>>> "unsubscribe
>>>>> csound"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>>          https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>>>> csound"
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>          https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>>> csound"
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>> csound"
>>
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
> csound"
>
>


Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"