Okay, I'm about to leave the list because it's f***ing impossible to
follow a thread because of the "re:s"
I went back to a desktop email client, and it's gotten insane.
How do you people live with this?
If someone has a script or a description of settings for Evolution I'm
all ears.

Greg



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Gmail handles it nicely with conversation threading.

On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 9:10 AM, Greg Schroeder  wrote:
> Okay, I'm about to leave the list because it's f***ing impossible to
> follow a thread because of the "re:s"
> I went back to a desktop email client, and it's gotten insane.
> How do you people live with this?
> If someone has a script or a description of settings for Evolution I'm
> all ears.
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
>


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>> Okay, I'm about to leave the list because it's f***ing impossible to
>> follow a thread because of the "re:s"
>> I went back to a desktop email client, and it's gotten insane.
>> How do you people live with this?

I use Thunderbird with threads view on.

Stef


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Agreed, it's ridiculous, and no one seems to be able to or want to take 
ownership of it. I mean really, all we're talking about is a little digging in a 
.conf file and probably editing one line of text. Right? Worst case maybe you'd 
have to upgrade some software. If I had access to the mail server I'd do it in a 
heartbeat, but I don't, so could someone *please* fix this?

Thanks,
Michael Bechard




----- Original Message ----
From: Greg Schroeder 
To: csound list 
Sent: Tue, November 30, 2010 8:10:32 AM
Subject: [Csnd] The re: problem

Okay, I'm about to leave the list because it's f***ing impossible to
follow a thread because of the "re:s"
I went back to a desktop email client, and it's gotten insane.
How do you people live with this?
If someone has a script or a description of settings for Evolution I'm
all ears.

Greg



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Some of us use Yahoo mail. I wish they had proper email threading, but they 
don't, and changing my email account is not an option.



----- Original Message ----
From: Stéphane Rollandin 
To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
Sent: Tue, November 30, 2010 8:47:40 AM
Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: The re: problem

>> Okay, I'm about to leave the list because it's f***ing impossible to
>> follow a thread because of the "re:s"
>> I went back to a desktop email client, and it's gotten insane.
>> How do you people live with this?

I use Thunderbird with threads view on.

Stef


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I believe you can set up a gmail account to import from yahoo and send
outgoing email with that yahoo address, if that'd help.
I do that with my work email since the java email web system doesn't
work well for me.

On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 10:19 AM, Michael Bechard  wrote:
> Some of us use Yahoo mail. I wish they had proper email threading, but they
> don't, and changing my email account is not an option.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Stéphane Rollandin 
> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
> Sent: Tue, November 30, 2010 8:47:40 AM
> Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: The re: problem
>
>>> Okay, I'm about to leave the list because it's f***ing impossible to
>>> follow a thread because of the "re:s"
>>> I went back to a desktop email client, and it's gotten insane.
>>> How do you people live with this?
>
> I use Thunderbird with threads view on.
>
> Stef
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>          https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
>
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
>


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I could. I could do a lot of stuff, but *the problem isn't on my end*. This is 
affecting everyone who subscribes to this list, including newcomers who may not 
have threaded conversations in their email clients, etc. First impressions, you 
know, and this is the only email list I've ever been on that has this problem. 
Are we really so lazy that we can't/won't fix such a simple problem?

Michael Bechard



----- Original Message ----
From: Aidan Collins 
To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
Sent: Tue, November 30, 2010 9:22:46 AM
Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: The re: problem

I believe you can set up a gmail account to import from yahoo and send
outgoing email with that yahoo address, if that'd help.
I do that with my work email since the java email web system doesn't
work well for me.

On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 10:19 AM, Michael Bechard  wrote:
> Some of us use Yahoo mail. I wish they had proper email threading, but they
> don't, and changing my email account is not an option.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Stéphane Rollandin 
> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
> Sent: Tue, November 30, 2010 8:47:40 AM
> Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: The re: problem
>
>>> Okay, I'm about to leave the list because it's f***ing impossible to
>>> follow a thread because of the "re:s"
>>> I went back to a desktop email client, and it's gotten insane.
>>> How do you people live with this?
>
> I use Thunderbird with threads view on.
>
> Stef
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>          https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe 
>csound"
>
>
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe 
>csound"
>
>


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I made no accusations at mr. ffitch or anyone else.
If we can't get our current server to fix this, could we use google or
yahoo mailing lists?
Would GNU be willing to host us?
If this is a big job, I'd be willing to help in whatever way I could. I
like this list a lot and this is just a touch mindbending.

Greg

On Tue, 2010-11-30 at 06:50 -0800, Michael Bechard wrote:
> Agreed, it's ridiculous, and no one seems to be able to or want to take 
> ownership of it. I mean really, all we're talking about is a little digging in a 
> .conf file and probably editing one line of text. Right? Worst case maybe you'd 
> have to upgrade some software. If I had access to the mail server I'd do it in a 
> heartbeat, but I don't, so could someone *please* fix this?
> 
> Thanks,
> Michael Bechard
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Greg Schroeder 
> To: csound list 
> Sent: Tue, November 30, 2010 8:10:32 AM
> Subject: [Csnd] The re: problem
> 
> Okay, I'm about to leave the list because it's f***ing impossible to
> follow a thread because of the "re:s"
> I went back to a desktop email client, and it's gotten insane.
> How do you people live with this?
> If someone has a script or a description of settings for Evolution I'm
> all ears.
> 
> Greg
> 
> 
> 
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>             https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
> 
> 
>       
> 
> 
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>             https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
> 




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Hello All,

longtime, no longer silent, lurker here .

Pegasus mail, in the manner i'm used to read my mail, makes a dogs dinner out 
of these re's .  Result : following threads has become the exception here, most 
mails stay unread .

Fixing this at the source is looong overdue .  Those suggesting otherwise ... 
politely put :  i wouldn't buy your secondhand car .

To the developers et al :  keep up the good work .

Keep em oscillating :)

Hugo
=


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Hi,

I think the main issue with switching the mailing list location is
getting everyone to move. There are many lurkers and silent readers,
which might contribute some day, but who will not take the trouble of
subscribing to the new list. Are there any other concerns? (maybe
regarding archives- these could be stored somewhere, maybe
sourceforge. There is a lot of lost Csound mailing list history from a
previous mailing list move)

I would be all for moving the list (although it makes no difference to
me as I use gmail), anything that improves peoples interaction with
the list is good, but I'm afraid it might weaken the community.

How traumatic would a move be?

Cheers,
Andres

On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 8:13 AM,   wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> longtime, no longer silent, lurker here .
>
> Pegasus mail, in the manner i'm used to read my mail, makes a dogs dinner out
> of these re's .  Result : following threads has become the exception here, most
> mails stay unread .
>
> Fixing this at the source is looong overdue .  Those suggesting otherwise ...
> politely put :  i wouldn't buy your secondhand car .
>
> To the developers et al :  keep up the good work .
>
> Keep em oscillating :)
>
> Hugo
> =
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
>


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> Hi,
>
> I think the main issue with switching the mailing list location is
> getting everyone to move. There are many lurkers and silent readers,
> which might contribute some day, but who will not take the trouble of
> subscribing to the new list. Are there any other concerns? (maybe
> regarding archives- these could be stored somewhere, maybe
> sourceforge. There is a lot of lost Csound mailing list history from a
> previous mailing list move)
>

I do have the archived mailing lists from Feb 1997 until Nov 1999 on line
if anyone wants to dig (about 8Mb compressed)




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Hi John,

Maybe they can be put up in the csound web space at sourceforge
(csound.sourceforge.net)?

Cheers,
Andres

On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 11:09 AM,   wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I think the main issue with switching the mailing list location is
>> getting everyone to move. There are many lurkers and silent readers,
>> which might contribute some day, but who will not take the trouble of
>> subscribing to the new list. Are there any other concerns? (maybe
>> regarding archives- these could be stored somewhere, maybe
>> sourceforge. There is a lot of lost Csound mailing list history from a
>> previous mailing list move)
>>
>
> I do have the archived mailing lists from Feb 1997 until Nov 1999 on line
> if anyone wants to dig (about 8Mb compressed)
>
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
>


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hey

On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 9:10 AM, Greg Schroeder  wrote:
> Okay, I'm about to leave the list because it's f***ing impossible to
> follow a thread because of the "re:s"

you're still here, aren't you?

> How do you people live with this?

if an email subject line is upsetting your ability to live your life,
then, my friend, i think there are much bigger issues at play.

the list works now, for all it's faults, and that's a positive issue.
moving mailing lists is not too hard, but it requires some admin
coordination. and since we're discussing electronic music here, and
not trying to save the world [although ...], a little downtime may be
acceptable.

the university at bath has been most hospitable to host the list for
this long, but maybe it's time to move elsewhere if ffitch's requests
keep getting deferred [ignored].

-- 
\js : "verbing weirds language." -calvin  [http://or8.net/~johns/]


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> Hi John,
>
> Maybe they can be put up in the csound web space at sourceforge
> (csound.sourceforge.net)?
>
>

At presebt it is in http://cs.bath.ac.uk/jpff/Csound_List_Archive/
as compressed files in a rather old mail format (each message bracketed by
^A^A^A^A lines)

I can easily uncompress if thta helps.  Did not work out how to transfer
to sourceforge.

==John ff



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In the meantime, is it really a problem for people to just delete the 
re:s from the subject line when they reply to the list? It always kills 
me when people rant about how much they hate it with an email that still 
has 10 re:s in the reply.

.mmb

On 12/1/10 5:49 AM, Andres Cabrera wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I think the main issue with switching the mailing list location is
> getting everyone to move. There are many lurkers and silent readers,
> which might contribute some day, but who will not take the trouble of
> subscribing to the new list. Are there any other concerns? (maybe
> regarding archives- these could be stored somewhere, maybe
> sourceforge. There is a lot of lost Csound mailing list history from a
> previous mailing list move)
>
> I would be all for moving the list (although it makes no difference to
> me as I use gmail), anything that improves peoples interaction with
> the list is good, but I'm afraid it might weaken the community.
>
> How traumatic would a move be?
>
> Cheers,
> Andres
>
> On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 8:13 AM,  wrote:
>> Hello All,
>>
>> longtime, no longer silent, lurker here .
>>
>> Pegasus mail, in the manner i'm used to read my mail, makes a dogs dinner out
>> of these re's .  Result : following threads has become the exception here, most
>> mails stay unread .
>>
>> Fixing this at the source is looong overdue .  Those suggesting otherwise ...
>> politely put :  i wouldn't buy your secondhand car .
>>
>> To the developers et al :  keep up the good work .
>>
>> Keep em oscillating :)
>>
>> Hugo
>> =
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>             https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>>
>>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>              https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>


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If I was going to leave the list, I would have just done it.
I was trying to make a louder request than in the past.
One re: in this email (besides the subject itself) is standard for
every message following the original, right?

Now, anyone who is responsible for such things, I am going to
repeat/expand on my offer more clearly and directly.
I have almost a full day of free time this upcoming weekend, but I do
not have access to any space online, nor the knowledge, nor access to
the files to move the mailing list to another server meaningfully. I
could make a google group myself, but I can't meaningfully get people
to migrate.
Would you like me to take this over, John? I'm not a developer, but I
know enough people who mod mailing lists that I could manage this, I
think.

Give me a responsibility and enough keywords to search online and read
man pages to get somewhere and I will fulfill it to the best of my
ability.

Otherwise, if I start a google group this weekend specifically
dedicated to csound users, who'd come along, and what is your input on
how to restrict/not-restrict registration?
Greg


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I'd come along, and if you needed any help setting it up, I'd be up for that 
too, though I don't have any experience setting up email lists.

Thanks,
Michael Bechard



----- Original Message ----
From: Greg Schroeder 
To: csound list 
Sent: Wed, December 1, 2010 6:48:53 PM
Subject: [Csnd] Re: The re: problem

If I was going to leave the list, I would have just done it.
I was trying to make a louder request than in the past.
One re: in this email (besides the subject itself) is standard for
every message following the original, right?

Now, anyone who is responsible for such things, I am going to
repeat/expand on my offer more clearly and directly.
I have almost a full day of free time this upcoming weekend, but I do
not have access to any space online, nor the knowledge, nor access to
the files to move the mailing list to another server meaningfully. I
could make a google group myself, but I can't meaningfully get people
to migrate.
Would you like me to take this over, John? I'm not a developer, but I
know enough people who mod mailing lists that I could manage this, I
think.

Give me a responsibility and enough keywords to search online and read
man pages to get somewhere and I will fulfill it to the best of my
ability.

Otherwise, if I start a google group this weekend specifically
dedicated to csound users, who'd come along, and what is your input on
how to restrict/not-restrict registration?
Greg


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Not mutiny. Not at all.
I'm not complaining anymore, except that people seem to be
passive-aggressively turning down a genuine offer of time to fix what
at least one person has presented as a serious issue.
I don't use a screen reader, but apparently somebody does, and I have
a feeling someone who uses a screen reader made my csound experience
far more pleasant.
I'm not a competent C programmer, but I am not an idiot, either.

So, somebody with some clout want to endorse this?
There's been 2 posts on the subject in 22 hours, so I have to presume
either Ffitch is investigating this between his real-world
responsibilities or nobody gives a crap.

Greg

On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 7:33 AM, adam faranda  wrote:
> Mutiny on the bounty :)
>


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It annoyed me at the start but now I don't really mind. I've learned
more from this list than most university degrees could offer. The
ridiculous amount of "re's" are a small price to pay.

Rory.


On 2 December 2010 23:42, Greg Schroeder  wrote:
> Not mutiny. Not at all.
> I'm not complaining anymore, except that people seem to be
> passive-aggressively turning down a genuine offer of time to fix what
> at least one person has presented as a serious issue.
> I don't use a screen reader, but apparently somebody does, and I have
> a feeling someone who uses a screen reader made my csound experience
> far more pleasant.
> I'm not a competent C programmer, but I am not an idiot, either.
>
> So, somebody with some clout want to endorse this?
> There's been 2 posts on the subject in 22 hours, so I have to presume
> either Ffitch is investigating this between his real-world
> responsibilities or nobody gives a crap.
>
> Greg
>
> On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 7:33 AM, adam faranda  wrote:
>> Mutiny on the bounty :)
>>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
>


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It's a given the list is a valuable source of information, no one here doubts 
that. In fact, it's because of this that I, for one, am concerned that its 
usability is in jeopardy for at least some people. It's not really a price to 
pay; it's a genuine hindrance that's completely, totally fixable.

Thanks,
Michael Bechard



----- Original Message ----
From: Rory Walsh 
To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
Sent: Thu, December 2, 2010 7:30:07 PM
Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re:The re: problem

It annoyed me at the start but now I don't really mind. I've learned
more from this list than most university degrees could offer. The
ridiculous amount of "re's" are a small price to pay.

Rory.


On 2 December 2010 23:42, Greg Schroeder  wrote:
> Not mutiny. Not at all.
> I'm not complaining anymore, except that people seem to be
> passive-aggressively turning down a genuine offer of time to fix what
> at least one person has presented as a serious issue.
> I don't use a screen reader, but apparently somebody does, and I have
> a feeling someone who uses a screen reader made my csound experience
> far more pleasant.
> I'm not a competent C programmer, but I am not an idiot, either.
>
> So, somebody with some clout want to endorse this?
> There's been 2 posts on the subject in 22 hours, so I have to presume
> either Ffitch is investigating this between his real-world
> responsibilities or nobody gives a crap.
>
> Greg
>
> On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 7:33 AM, adam faranda  wrote:
>> Mutiny on the bounty :)
>>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe 
>csound"
>
>


Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"


      


Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"