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[Csnd] Mandelbrot set and algorithmic composition

Date2010-11-08 18:36
Frompeiman khosravi
Subject[Csnd] Mandelbrot set and algorithmic composition
Hello,

I'm reading Roger Penrose's 'The Road to Reality' and have just come across the computer printouts based on the Mandelbrot set. Has anyone done or know of any algorithmic music based on these?

Best,

Peiman

Date2010-11-08 19:47
FromMichael Gogins
Subject[Csnd] Re: Mandelbrot set and algorithmic composition
Yes, I have.

(1) I have used fractal images based on the Mandelbrot set (and other
fractal sets) as scores. I am sure many others have done so as well.
You can do this with the CsoundAC.ImageToScore node -- feed a fractal
image in, get a Csound score out. Some of the pieces on my albums have
been made in this way.

(2) I have used orbits in or close to the Mandelbrot set as sequences.
I think some others have done so as well. You can do this easily in
Python or Lua. Some of the pieces on my albums have been made in a
related way, using orbits in more complicated dynamical systems; you
can use the CsoundAC.StrangeAttractor node to make pieces this way.

(3) Less directly but in a more sophisticated manner, I have developed
the concept of 'parametric composition.' Just as Julia sets are visual
images generated by taking one point from the Mandelbrot set as a
parameter to define the Julia set, so it is possible to define a score
generating algorithm that is controlled by a numerical parameter, and
then create a map of the parameter space by coloring the points by
some musically significant attribute of the corresponding scores, and
then compose by exploring the parameter map and generating scores from
points in interesting regions of the map, just as one can generate
images by exploring the Mandelbrot set and generating Julia sets from
points in interesting regions of the Mandelbrot set. I was inspired to
get this idea by hearing Mandelbrot himself lecture on the Mandelbrot
Set at the University of Washington in the 1980s.

I have published on this, see “How I Became Obsessed with Finding a
Mandelbrot Set for Sounds,” News of Music 13, Winter 1992, and
“Iterated Functions Systems Music”, Computer Music Journal 15, March
1991.

I am still working on this idea of parametric composition. I am now
working on imbuing the space in which fractals are generated with
specifically musical dimensions, such as tonality.

Regards,
Mike


On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 1:36 PM, peiman khosravi
 wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm reading Roger Penrose's 'The Road to Reality' and have just come across
> the computer printouts based on the Mandelbrot set. Has anyone done or know
> of any algorithmic music based on these?
>
> Best,
>
> Peiman
>



-- 
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com


Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
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Date2010-11-09 10:01
Frompeiman khosravi
Subject[Csnd] Re: Re: Mandelbrot set and algorithmic composition
Thanks very much Mike for your thourough reply. There is load for me to look at and read, certainly something for th weekend!

Best,

Peiman

On 8 November 2010 19:47, Michael Gogins <michael.gogins@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes, I have.

(1) I have used fractal images based on the Mandelbrot set (and other
fractal sets) as scores. I am sure many others have done so as well.
You can do this with the CsoundAC.ImageToScore node -- feed a fractal
image in, get a Csound score out. Some of the pieces on my albums have
been made in this way.

(2) I have used orbits in or close to the Mandelbrot set as sequences.
I think some others have done so as well. You can do this easily in
Python or Lua. Some of the pieces on my albums have been made in a
related way, using orbits in more complicated dynamical systems; you
can use the CsoundAC.StrangeAttractor node to make pieces this way.

(3) Less directly but in a more sophisticated manner, I have developed
the concept of 'parametric composition.' Just as Julia sets are visual
images generated by taking one point from the Mandelbrot set as a
parameter to define the Julia set, so it is possible to define a score
generating algorithm that is controlled by a numerical parameter, and
then create a map of the parameter space by coloring the points by
some musically significant attribute of the corresponding scores, and
then compose by exploring the parameter map and generating scores from
points in interesting regions of the map, just as one can generate
images by exploring the Mandelbrot set and generating Julia sets from
points in interesting regions of the Mandelbrot set. I was inspired to
get this idea by hearing Mandelbrot himself lecture on the Mandelbrot
Set at the University of Washington in the 1980s.

I have published on this, see “How I Became Obsessed with Finding a
Mandelbrot Set for Sounds,” News of Music 13, Winter 1992, and
“Iterated Functions Systems Music”, Computer Music Journal 15, March
1991.

I am still working on this idea of parametric composition. I am now
working on imbuing the space in which fractals are generated with
specifically musical dimensions, such as tonality.

Regards,
Mike


On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 1:36 PM, peiman khosravi
<peimankhosravi@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm reading Roger Penrose's 'The Road to Reality' and have just come across
> the computer printouts based on the Mandelbrot set. Has anyone done or know
> of any algorithmic music based on these?
>
> Best,
>
> Peiman
>



--
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com


Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"



Date2010-11-09 15:00
FromBruno Degazio
Subject[Csnd] Re: Mandelbrot set and algorithmic composition
I'm not familiar with Penrose's printouts (are they different from the usual "psychedelic" images one sees of the M. Set?)

For me, the main musical interest of the Mandelbrot Set has to do with periodic regions, known as "orbits",  within the interior of the set. (There is a very nice Java Applet allowing one to explore the orbits graphically, available here - http://math.hws.edu/xJava/MBold/index.html ). The orbits are themselves musically interesting as two-dimensional periodic structures, and furthermore adjacent orbits are related in a  Fibonacci-like relationship such that it is always possible to find an orbit of period (X+Y) in the area between an orbit of period X and an orbit of period Y.

I used these orbits as algorithmic music generators in a number of pieces from the 1980's and 90s, notably Digital Rituals, commissioned for the Sound Pressure Contemporary Music Ensemble in Toronto.

-------------------------------------------------
Bruno Degazio, M.Mus.
Professor, Animation Sound Design
School of Animation, Arts & Design
Sheridan College, Oakville, ON
905-845-9430 x2603
degazio@sheridanc.on.ca
website: http://www-acad.sheridanc.on.ca/~degazio 





On 2010-11-08, at 1:36 PM, peiman khosravi wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I'm reading Roger Penrose's 'The Road to Reality' and have just come across the computer printouts based on the Mandelbrot set. Has anyone done or know of any algorithmic music based on these?
> 
> Best,
> 
> Peiman 



Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"


Date2010-11-09 15:06
FromMichael Gogins
Subject[Csnd] Re: Re: Mandelbrot set and algorithmic composition
Thanks for your interesting post. As noted I used orbits myself, but I
was not aware of your Fibonacci-like relationship. I will probably
fool around with these orbits some more....

Do you know if the periodic relationships obtain with quaternionic or
octonionic Mandelbrot sets?

Thanks,
Mike

On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 10:00 AM, Bruno Degazio  wrote:
> I'm not familiar with Penrose's printouts (are they different from the usual "psychedelic" images one sees of the M. Set?)
>
> For me, the main musical interest of the Mandelbrot Set has to do with periodic regions, known as "orbits",  within the interior of the set. (There is a very nice Java Applet allowing one to explore the orbits graphically, available here - http://math.hws.edu/xJava/MBold/index.html ). The orbits are themselves musically interesting as two-dimensional periodic structures, and furthermore adjacent orbits are related in a  Fibonacci-like relationship such that it is always possible to find an orbit of period (X+Y) in the area between an orbit of period X and an orbit of period Y.
>
> I used these orbits as algorithmic music generators in a number of pieces from the 1980's and 90s, notably Digital Rituals, commissioned for the Sound Pressure Contemporary Music Ensemble in Toronto.
>
> -------------------------------------------------
> Bruno Degazio, M.Mus.
> Professor, Animation Sound Design
> School of Animation, Arts & Design
> Sheridan College, Oakville, ON
> 905-845-9430 x2603
> degazio@sheridanc.on.ca
> website: http://www-acad.sheridanc.on.ca/~degazio
>
>
>
>
>
> On 2010-11-08, at 1:36 PM, peiman khosravi wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm reading Roger Penrose's 'The Road to Reality' and have just come across the computer printouts based on the Mandelbrot set. Has anyone done or know of any algorithmic music based on these?
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Peiman
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
>



-- 
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com


Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"