[Csnd] [OT] what is music?

[Csnd] [OT] what is music?

Date	2011-02-12 23:20
From	Victor Lazzarini
Subject	[Csnd] [OT] what is music?
	A colleague pointed me to this link: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3507527/MusicTh.html It should be of interest regarding earlier discussions in this list. It appears to hold a lot of certainties, but basing assumptions on shaky sources and really closing the scope of music into a narrow range of possibilities. But maybe some ideas can be salvaged from the prejudiced views.... Victor Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-02-13 01:34
From	Michael Gogins
Subject	Re: [Csnd] [OT] what is music?
	I am a Darwinian. Still, I do not think that music can be explained in a purely reductive way. People sometimes talk of things that are good "in themselves," "as such" (like goodness itself). I think that the Darwinian approach to music can teach us a lot, but it will not teach us anything about why music is good in this sense, but that is pretty much the main thing about music for most musicians -- there are easier ways to make a living and support a family, which is what the Darwinian approach ends up being about. There is clearly a sense in which the ability of human beings to value things for their own sake has enormous selective value, but that is not the actual purpose of this ability. It enables us to think, and more importantly to think objectively. If you can think, then you can beat your enemies and find food in hidden places and get the girl, but that is not what thinking is for -- thinking is for learning and knowing what is real. Music is like thinking in this sense. I would say that music is to hearing and making sounds, what thinking objectively is to merely being quick-witted. Regards, Mike On Sat, Feb 12, 2011 at 6:20 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote: > A colleague pointed me to this link: > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3507527/MusicTh.html > > It should be of interest regarding earlier discussions in this list. > It appears to hold a lot of certainties, but basing assumptions on shaky > sources and really closing the scope of > music into a narrow range of possibilities. But maybe some ideas can be > salvaged from the prejudiced views.... > > Victor > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe > csound" > > -- Michael Gogins Irreducible Productions http://www.michael-gogins.com Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-02-13 09:58
From	Chuckk Hubbard
Subject	Re: [Csnd] [OT] what is music?
	Thanks for sharing, Victor. I'm surprised to see no references to Leonard B. Meyer's 'Emotion and Meaning in Music', except as an inspiration for one of the other references. I think the Gestalt principles, some of which are mentioned in your link, go a long way towards explaining music. For instance, similar motion: if a primate with some kind of weapon is standing in a jungle, the patterns of sunlight cast by plant leaves all kind of blend together. But as soon as a small group of stripes starts to move in the same direction at the same time, he'll notice the tiger moving towards him. OK, not very factually accurate, but I'm sure such situations have happened thousands of times (selecting for those who noticed it), and the evolutionary advantage to perceiving a unit made up of things moving together is obvious. I also think the connection to music is obvious. That's just perception, of course, and doesn't begin to explain why people would prefer this way or that way. Interestingly, I remember a David Attenborough nature film with a mama seal roaming on a beach with thousands of other seals all barking constantly. She had lost her pup, and would move along, stop, bark, and listen. Eventually she found him because of her ability to distinguish his bark among the cacaphony created by all the others. Not surprising. I'd say music itself doesn't have to have an evolutionary advantage, if it simply happens to rely on mental processes that do have an advantage in other contexts. -Chuckk On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 1:20 AM, Victor Lazzarini wrote: > A colleague pointed me to this link: > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3507527/MusicTh.html > > It should be of interest regarding earlier discussions in this list. > It appears to hold a lot of certainties, but basing assumptions on shaky > sources and really closing the scope of > music into a narrow range of possibilities. But maybe some ideas can be > salvaged from the prejudiced views.... > > Victor > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe > csound" > > -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-02-13 12:37
From	Chuckk Hubbard
Subject	Re: [Csnd] [OT] what is music?
	Another way of saying "evolutionary advantage" is "high likelihood of ending up with a kid." So I'd propose that a taste for extremely simple music, drugs and wild parties constitutes an evolutionary advantage. -Chuckk On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 1:20 AM, Victor Lazzarini wrote: > A colleague pointed me to this link: > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3507527/MusicTh.html > > It should be of interest regarding earlier discussions in this list. > It appears to hold a lot of certainties, but basing assumptions on shaky > sources and really closing the scope of > music into a narrow range of possibilities. But maybe some ideas can be > salvaged from the prejudiced views.... > > Victor > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe > csound" > > -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-02-13 14:14
From	Brian Wong
Subject	RE: [Csnd] [OT] what is music?
	Thanks for posting this Victor, lots of interesting information, though it comes across as a somewhat rambling and unfocused search for a reductionist answer to the question posed. The definition of music is constantly being redefined and expanded, referencing the music of the past, influenced and affected by the sounds ,technologies and society of the present. Chuck - Perhaps, and apparently compiling a big batch of references in a paper and making comments on them constitutes an "career advantage". ;) BW ---------------------------------------- > Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 14:37:45 +0200 > From: badmuthahubbard@gmail.com > To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk > Subject: Re: [Csnd] [OT] what is music? > > Another way of saying "evolutionary advantage" is "high likelihood of > ending up with a kid." So I'd propose that a taste for extremely > simple music, drugs and wild parties constitutes an evolutionary > advantage. > > -Chuckk > > On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 1:20 AM, Victor Lazzarini > wrote: > > A colleague pointed me to this link: > > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3507527/MusicTh.html > > > > It should be of interest regarding earlier discussions in this list. > > It appears to hold a lot of certainties, but basing assumptions on shaky > > sources and really closing the scope of > > music into a narrow range of possibilities. But maybe some ideas can be > > salvaged from the prejudiced views.... > > > > Victor > > > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe > > csound" > > > > > > > > -- > http://www.badmuthahubbard.com > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-02-13 14:38
From	Dave Phillips
Subject	Re: [Csnd] [OT] what is music?
	Brian Wong wrote: > ... and apparently compiling a big batch of references in a paper and making comments on them constitutes an "career advantage". ;) > What Ezra Pound referred to as "Joe-Joe's opinion of Jim-Jim's commentary on Shakespeare". Best, dp Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-02-13 17:03
From	Victor Lazzarini
Subject	Re: [Csnd] [OT] what is music?
	Rambling is a good word. There are some dubious sources there most definitely. I would like to see the whole argument put in four pages, in a structured way. That would make it more open to questioning. Victor On 13 Feb 2011, at 14:14, Brian Wong wrote: > > Thanks for posting this Victor, lots of interesting information, > though it comes across as a somewhat rambling and unfocused search > for a reductionist answer to the question posed. The definition of > music is constantly being redefined and expanded, referencing the > music of the past, influenced and affected by the > sounds ,technologies and society of the present. > Chuck - Perhaps, and apparently compiling a big batch of references > in a paper and making comments on them constitutes an "career > advantage". ;) > BW > > ---------------------------------------- >> Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 14:37:45 +0200 >> From: badmuthahubbard@gmail.com >> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk >> Subject: Re: [Csnd] [OT] what is music? >> >> Another way of saying "evolutionary advantage" is "high likelihood of >> ending up with a kid." So I'd propose that a taste for extremely >> simple music, drugs and wild parties constitutes an evolutionary >> advantage. >> >> -Chuckk >> >> On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 1:20 AM, Victor Lazzarini >> wrote: >>> A colleague pointed me to this link: >>> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3507527/MusicTh.html >>> >>> It should be of interest regarding earlier discussions in this list. >>> It appears to hold a lot of certainties, but basing assumptions on >>> shaky >>> sources and really closing the scope of >>> music into a narrow range of possibilities. But maybe some ideas >>> can be >>> salvaged from the prejudiced views.... >>> >>> Victor >>> >>> >>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >>> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body >>> "unsubscribe >>> csound" >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> http://www.badmuthahubbard.com >> >> >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body >> "unsubscribe csound" >> > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body > "unsubscribe csound" > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"