Hello everybody,

Since I use the ambisonic Udos from Martin Neukom where he uses the ZAK system over creating audio arrays, I was wondering if there is a significant performance difference between using global audio arrays and the zak system.
Somewhere I heard that audio arrays are quite problematic because of a lot copying pasting data around.

Can someone give me a insight?
Greetings 
Philipp
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Zak is quite an antiquated system, I would use bus channels instead.

The copying issue is only to do with UDOs, but zak would also involve copying stuff so no gain there.

Prof. Victor Lazzarini
Maynooth University
Ireland

> On 29 Sep 2024, at 17:46, Philipp von Neumann <0000119f78f3a4f9-dmarc-request@listserv.heanet.ie> wrote:
> 
> Hello everybody,
> 
> Since I use the ambisonic Udos from Martin Neukom where he uses the ZAK system over creating audio arrays, I was wondering if there is a significant performance difference between using global audio arrays and the zak system.
> Somewhere I heard that audio arrays are quite problematic because of a lot copying pasting data around.
> 
> Can someone give me a insight?
> Greetings
> Philipp
> Csound mailing list
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> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
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You mean the chnset and chnget opcodes? I never used them, will investigate.

And there is no performance problem when I send a array made with chnset to an Udo?

> Am 29.09.2024 um 19:56 schrieb vlz :
> 
> Zak is quite an antiquated system, I would use bus channels instead.
> 
> The copying issue is only to do with UDOs, but zak would also involve copying stuff so no gain there.
> 
> Prof. Victor Lazzarini
> Maynooth University
> Ireland
> 
>> On 29 Sep 2024, at 17:46, Philipp von Neumann <0000119f78f3a4f9-dmarc-request@listserv.heanet.ie> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello everybody,
>> 
>> Since I use the ambisonic Udos from Martin Neukom where he uses the ZAK system over creating audio arrays, I was wondering if there is a significant performance difference between using global audio arrays and the zak system.
>> Somewhere I heard that audio arrays are quite problematic because of a lot copying pasting data around.
>> 
>> Can someone give me a insight?
>> Greetings
>> Philipp
>> Csound mailing list
>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> Send bugs reports to
>>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> 
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There should be no problem if ksmps, sr etc is all the same between udo and source. If they aren't you can't use global objects like channels or global variables, you need to pass them as inputs to the UDO.

Prof. Victor Lazzarini
Maynooth University
Ireland

> On 29 Sep 2024, at 20:08, Philipp von Neumann <0000119f78f3a4f9-dmarc-request@listserv.heanet.ie> wrote:
> 
> You mean the chnset and chnget opcodes? I never used them, will investigate.
> 
> And there is no performance problem when I send a array made with chnset to an Udo?
> 
>> Am 29.09.2024 um 19:56 schrieb vlz :
>> 
>> Zak is quite an antiquated system, I would use bus channels instead.
>> 
>> The copying issue is only to do with UDOs, but zak would also involve copying stuff so no gain there.
>> 
>> Prof. Victor Lazzarini
>> Maynooth University
>> Ireland
>> 
>>>> On 29 Sep 2024, at 17:46, Philipp von Neumann <0000119f78f3a4f9-dmarc-request@listserv.heanet.ie> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello everybody,
>>> 
>>> Since I use the ambisonic Udos from Martin Neukom where he uses the ZAK system over creating audio arrays, I was wondering if there is a significant performance difference between using global audio arrays and the zak system.
>>> Somewhere I heard that audio arrays are quite problematic because of a lot copying pasting data around.
>>> 
>>> Can someone give me a insight?
>>> Greetings
>>> Philipp
>>> Csound mailing list
>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>      https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> 
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>>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> 
> 
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But is there a difference in computation using channels over global variables?
Or is this a style question?
Is a channel doing something different on the c side then creating a vector of size ksmps?

> Am 29.09.2024 um 21:42 schrieb vlz :
> 
> There should be no problem if ksmps, sr etc is all the same between udo and source. If they aren't you can't use global objects like channels or global variables, you need to pass them as inputs to the UDO.
> 
> Prof. Victor Lazzarini
> Maynooth University
> Ireland
> 
>> On 29 Sep 2024, at 20:08, Philipp von Neumann <0000119f78f3a4f9-dmarc-request@listserv.heanet.ie> wrote:
>> 
>> You mean the chnset and chnget opcodes? I never used them, will investigate.
>> 
>> And there is no performance problem when I send a array made with chnset to an Udo?
>> 
>>>> Am 29.09.2024 um 19:56 schrieb vlz :
>>> 
>>> Zak is quite an antiquated system, I would use bus channels instead.
>>> 
>>> The copying issue is only to do with UDOs, but zak would also involve copying stuff so no gain there.
>>> 
>>> Prof. Victor Lazzarini
>>> Maynooth University
>>> Ireland
>>> 
>>>>> On 29 Sep 2024, at 17:46, Philipp von Neumann <0000119f78f3a4f9-dmarc-request@listserv.heanet.ie> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hello everybody,
>>>> 
>>>> Since I use the ambisonic Udos from Martin Neukom where he uses the ZAK system over creating audio arrays, I was wondering if there is a significant performance difference between using global audio arrays and the zak system.
>>>> Somewhere I heard that audio arrays are quite problematic because of a lot copying pasting data around.
>>>> 
>>>> Can someone give me a insight?
>>>> Greetings
>>>> Philipp
>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>     https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
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>>> Csound mailing list
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>> 
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Very little difference, and it's tidier.

Prof. Victor Lazzarini
Maynooth University
Ireland

> On 30 Sep 2024, at 07:10, Philipp von Neumann <0000119f78f3a4f9-dmarc-request@listserv.heanet.ie> wrote:
>
> [You don't often get email from 0000119f78f3a4f9-dmarc-request@listserv.heanet.ie. Learn why this is important at https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification ]
>
> *Warning*
>
> This email originated from outside of Maynooth University's Mail System. Do not reply, click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.
>
> But is there a difference in computation using channels over global variables?
> Or is this a style question?
> Is a channel doing something different on the c side then creating a vector of size ksmps?
>
>> Am 29.09.2024 um 21:42 schrieb vlz :
>>
>> There should be no problem if ksmps, sr etc is all the same between udo and source. If they aren't you can't use global objects like channels or global variables, you need to pass them as inputs to the UDO.
>>
>> Prof. Victor Lazzarini
>> Maynooth University
>> Ireland
>>
>>>> On 29 Sep 2024, at 20:08, Philipp von Neumann <0000119f78f3a4f9-dmarc-request@listserv.heanet.ie> wrote:
>>>
>>> You mean the chnset and chnget opcodes? I never used them, will investigate.
>>>
>>> And there is no performance problem when I send a array made with chnset to an Udo?
>>>
>>>>> Am 29.09.2024 um 19:56 schrieb vlz :
>>>>
>>>> Zak is quite an antiquated system, I would use bus channels instead.
>>>>
>>>> The copying issue is only to do with UDOs, but zak would also involve copying stuff so no gain there.
>>>>
>>>> Prof. Victor Lazzarini
>>>> Maynooth University
>>>> Ireland
>>>>
>>>>>> On 29 Sep 2024, at 17:46, Philipp von Neumann <0000119f78f3a4f9-dmarc-request@listserv.heanet.ie> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello everybody,
>>>>>
>>>>> Since I use the ambisonic Udos from Martin Neukom where he uses the ZAK system over creating audio arrays, I was wondering if there is a significant performance difference between using global audio arrays and the zak system.
>>>>> Somewhere I heard that audio arrays are quite problematic because of a lot copying pasting data around.
>>>>>
>>>>> Can someone give me a insight?
>>>>> Greetings
>>>>> Philipp
>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>    https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
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>
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actually i always wanted to see a version of martin neukom's UDOs with 
chnset/chnget.  i have the same opinion as victor about the zak opcodes, 
and i think martin just used them because he was familiar with them from 
old times.


On 29/09/2024 21:08, Philipp von Neumann wrote:
> You mean the chnset and chnget opcodes? I never used them, will investigate.
> 
> And there is no performance problem when I send a array made with chnset to an Udo?
> 
>> Am 29.09.2024 um 19:56 schrieb vlz :
>>
>> Zak is quite an antiquated system, I would use bus channels instead.
>>
>> The copying issue is only to do with UDOs, but zak would also involve copying stuff so no gain there.
>>
>> Prof. Victor Lazzarini
>> Maynooth University
>> Ireland
>>
>>> On 29 Sep 2024, at 17:46, Philipp von Neumann <0000119f78f3a4f9-dmarc-request@listserv.heanet.ie> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello everybody,
>>>
>>> Since I use the ambisonic Udos from Martin Neukom where he uses the ZAK system over creating audio arrays, I was wondering if there is a significant performance difference between using global audio arrays and the zak system.
>>> Somewhere I heard that audio arrays are quite problematic because of a lot copying pasting data around.
>>>
>>> Can someone give me a insight?
>>> Greetings
>>> Philipp
>>> Csound mailing list
>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>
>> Csound mailing list
>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> Send bugs reports to
>>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>
> 
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I already rewrote the encoding Udo with audio arrays. When I will have time in the next weeks I will rewrite some of them with chnset/chnget and will share them.

So it’s possible wo just use the channel name as string as input to an Udo?

> Am 30.09.2024 um 17:11 schrieb joachim heintz :
> 
> actually i always wanted to see a version of martin neukom's UDOs with chnset/chnget.  i have the same opinion as victor about the zak opcodes, and i think martin just used them because he was familiar with them from old times.
> 
> 
>> On 29/09/2024 21:08, Philipp von Neumann wrote:
>> You mean the chnset and chnget opcodes? I never used them, will investigate.
>> And there is no performance problem when I send a array made with chnset to an Udo?
>>>> Am 29.09.2024 um 19:56 schrieb vlz :
>>> 
>>> Zak is quite an antiquated system, I would use bus channels instead.
>>> 
>>> The copying issue is only to do with UDOs, but zak would also involve copying stuff so no gain there.
>>> 
>>> Prof. Victor Lazzarini
>>> Maynooth University
>>> Ireland
>>> 
>>>> On 29 Sep 2024, at 17:46, Philipp von Neumann <0000119f78f3a4f9-dmarc-request@listserv.heanet.ie> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hello everybody,
>>>> 
>>>> Since I use the ambisonic Udos from Martin Neukom where he uses the ZAK system over creating audio arrays, I was wondering if there is a significant performance difference between using global audio arrays and the zak system.
>>>> Somewhere I heard that audio arrays are quite problematic because of a lot copying pasting data around.
>>>> 
>>>> Can someone give me a insight?
>>>> Greetings
>>>> Philipp
>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>> 
>>> Csound mailing list
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Audio arrays are probably OK too.
========================
Prof. Victor Lazzarini
Maynooth University
Ireland

> On 30 Sep 2024, at 16:15, Philipp von Neumann <0000119f78f3a4f9-dmarc-request@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE> wrote:
>
> [You don't often get email from 0000119f78f3a4f9-dmarc-request@listserv.heanet.ie. Learn why this is important at https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification ]
>
> *Warning*
>
> This email originated from outside of Maynooth University's Mail System. Do not reply, click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.
>
> I already rewrote the encoding Udo with audio arrays. When I will have time in the next weeks I will rewrite some of them with chnset/chnget and will share them.
>
> So it’s possible wo just use the channel name as string as input to an Udo?
>
>> Am 30.09.2024 um 17:11 schrieb joachim heintz :
>>
>> actually i always wanted to see a version of martin neukom's UDOs with chnset/chnget.  i have the same opinion as victor about the zak opcodes, and i think martin just used them because he was familiar with them from old times.
>>
>>
>>> On 29/09/2024 21:08, Philipp von Neumann wrote:
>>> You mean the chnset and chnget opcodes? I never used them, will investigate.
>>> And there is no performance problem when I send a array made with chnset to an Udo?
>>>>> Am 29.09.2024 um 19:56 schrieb vlz :
>>>>
>>>> Zak is quite an antiquated system, I would use bus channels instead.
>>>>
>>>> The copying issue is only to do with UDOs, but zak would also involve copying stuff so no gain there.
>>>>
>>>> Prof. Victor Lazzarini
>>>> Maynooth University
>>>> Ireland
>>>>
>>>>> On 29 Sep 2024, at 17:46, Philipp von Neumann <0000119f78f3a4f9-dmarc-request@listserv.heanet.ie> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello everybody,
>>>>>
>>>>> Since I use the ambisonic Udos from Martin Neukom where he uses the ZAK system over creating audio arrays, I was wondering if there is a significant performance difference between using global audio arrays and the zak system.
>>>>> Somewhere I heard that audio arrays are quite problematic because of a lot copying pasting data around.
>>>>>
>>>>> Can someone give me a insight?
>>>>> Greetings
>>>>> Philipp
>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>      https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>
>>>> Csound mailing list
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>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
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>>>>
>>> Csound mailing list
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>
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great.  please send me; i will be happy to review the code, and then we 
can put it in the new version of the flossmanual.


On 30/09/2024 17:15, Philipp von Neumann wrote:
> I already rewrote the encoding Udo with audio arrays. When I will have time in the next weeks I will rewrite some of them with chnset/chnget and will share them.
> 
> So it’s possible wo just use the channel name as string as input to an Udo?
> 
>> Am 30.09.2024 um 17:11 schrieb joachim heintz :
>>
>> actually i always wanted to see a version of martin neukom's UDOs with chnset/chnget.  i have the same opinion as victor about the zak opcodes, and i think martin just used them because he was familiar with them from old times.
>>
>>
>>> On 29/09/2024 21:08, Philipp von Neumann wrote:
>>> You mean the chnset and chnget opcodes? I never used them, will investigate.
>>> And there is no performance problem when I send a array made with chnset to an Udo?
>>>>> Am 29.09.2024 um 19:56 schrieb vlz :
>>>>
>>>> Zak is quite an antiquated system, I would use bus channels instead.
>>>>
>>>> The copying issue is only to do with UDOs, but zak would also involve copying stuff so no gain there.
>>>>
>>>> Prof. Victor Lazzarini
>>>> Maynooth University
>>>> Ireland
>>>>
>>>>> On 29 Sep 2024, at 17:46, Philipp von Neumann <0000119f78f3a4f9-dmarc-request@listserv.heanet.ie> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello everybody,
>>>>>
>>>>> Since I use the ambisonic Udos from Martin Neukom where he uses the ZAK system over creating audio arrays, I was wondering if there is a significant performance difference between using global audio arrays and the zak system.
>>>>> Somewhere I heard that audio arrays are quite problematic because of a lot copying pasting data around.
>>>>>
>>>>> Can someone give me a insight?
>>>>> Greetings
>>>>> Philipp
>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>
>>>> Csound mailing list
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>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>
>>> Csound mailing list
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>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>
>> Csound mailing list
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>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>
> 
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