Hey hey,
I'm trying to reconstruct an effect that was built for Ableton Live. The 
process is described step ty step. At one point though I'm not sure, whether I 
miss out on a point that's obvious in the video (images / signal flow graph on 
screen) or whether it is a slightly different behaviour of Csound phaser2.
Here's the video:
https://youtu.be/_SyB2WqKwP4
At 3:18 he starts adding the phaser and talking about the phaser related 
stuff, explaining the baiscs of a phaser.

And at 3:55 he is duplicating the phaser to perform phase inversion to parts 
of the signal. I don't get which part. I have tried with different 
combinations of phase inverted dry signal and phaser2 output, but either both 
white noise input and sawtooth sound unaffected or both sound affected.

Can any one point out my error or lack of information?

Best wishes,

Jeanette

-- 
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I didn’t watch the video, but this is how I would implement a basic phaser with that opcode

instr 1
 a1 rand 0.5 
 kf = (oscili(0.5,0.4) + 0.5)*10000
 a2 phaser2 a1,kf,1,1,1,1,0
      out (a2+a1)/2
endin

adding the signals creates a notch. If you subtract them, you get a peak. The opcode allows you
to have as many notches or peaks (by increasing the order) as you’d like.


> On 24 Jun 2024, at 12:57, Jeanette C.  wrote:
> 
> Hey hey,
> I'm trying to reconstruct an effect that was built for Ableton Live. The process is described step ty step. At one point though I'm not sure, whether I miss out on a point that's obvious in the video (images / signal flow graph on screen) or whether it is a slightly different behaviour of Csound phaser2.
> Here's the video:
> https://youtu.be/_SyB2WqKwP4
> At 3:18 he starts adding the phaser and talking about the phaser related stuff, explaining the baiscs of a phaser.
> 
> And at 3:55 he is duplicating the phaser to perform phase inversion to parts of the signal. I don't get which part. I have tried with different combinations of phase inverted dry signal and phaser2 output, but either both white noise input and sawtooth sound unaffected or both sound affected.
> 
> Can any one point out my error or lack of information?
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Jeanette
> 
> -- 
> * Website: http://juliencoder.de - for summer is a state of sound
> * Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMS4rfGrTwz8W7jhC1Jnv7g
> * Audiobombs: https://www.audiobombs.com/users/jeanette_c
> * GitHub: https://github.com/jeanette-c
> 
> Don't worry, you're gonna be alright,
> But Cinderella's got to go <3
> (Britney Spears)
> 
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

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Hi Victor,
the author is not creating a phaser exactly. He somehow creates a phase
inverted copy of either a dry or phased signal and adds those. With
white noise the effect was that you could not hear anything. Patching a
sawtooth into that you could hear an effect when the phaser was used.
The components he used appear to be straightforward, like basic Csound
opcodes in a way. Certainly up to that point in his processing chain.

Best wishes,

Jeanette
Jun 24 2024, vlz has written:
...
>> https://youtu.be/_SyB2WqKwP4
>> At 3:18 he starts adding the phaser and talking about the phaser related stuff, explaining the baiscs of a phaser.
>>
>> And at 3:55 he is duplicating the phaser to perform phase inversion to parts of the signal. I don't get which part. I have tried with different combinations of phase inverted dry signal and phaser2 output, but either both white noise input and sawtooth sound unaffected or both sound affected.
...

-- 
  * Website: http://juliencoder.de - for summer is a state of sound
  * Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMS4rfGrTwz8W7jhC1Jnv7g
  * Audiobombs: https://www.audiobombs.com/users/jeanette_c
  * GitHub: https://github.com/jeanette-c

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But Cinderella's got to go <3
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A notch phaser (adding allpass and its input) with a higher Q may not have much of
an effect on white noise, because the notch is too narrow. It can still have some effect on
a sawtooth because it might remove one or more harmonics (depending on how many
notches there are). So that may be the case of what you are hearing.

========================
Prof. Victor Lazzarini
Maynooth University
Ireland

> On 24 Jun 2024, at 14:39, Jeanette C.  wrote:
>
> *Warning*
>
> This email originated from outside of Maynooth University's Mail System. Do not reply, click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.
>
> Hi Victor,
> the author is not creating a phaser exactly. He somehow creates a phase
> inverted copy of either a dry or phased signal and adds those. With
> white noise the effect was that you could not hear anything. Patching a
> sawtooth into that you could hear an effect when the phaser was used.
> The components he used appear to be straightforward, like basic Csound
> opcodes in a way. Certainly up to that point in his processing chain.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Jeanette
> Jun 24 2024, vlz has written:
> ...
>>> https://youtu.be/_SyB2WqKwP4
>>> At 3:18 he starts adding the phaser and talking about the phaser related stuff, explaining the baiscs of a phaser.
>>>
>>> And at 3:55 he is duplicating the phaser to perform phase inversion to parts of the signal. I don't get which part. I have tried with different combinations of phase inverted dry signal and phaser2 output, but either both white noise input and sawtooth sound unaffected or both sound affected.
> ...
>
> --
> * Website: http://juliencoder.de/ - for summer is a state of sound
> * Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMS4rfGrTwz8W7jhC1Jnv7g
> * Audiobombs: https://www.audiobombs.com/users/jeanette_c
> * GitHub: https://github.com/jeanette-c
>
> Don't worry, you're gonna be alright,
> But Cinderella's got to go <3
> (Britney Spears)
>
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
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>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
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Hi Risto!
Jun 25 2024, Risto Kuusisto has written:
...
> a) -a2+a1 or
> b) a2-a1
...
thank Risto, that makes a lot of sense.

Best wishes,

Jeanette

-- 
  * Website: http://juliencoder.de - for summer is a state of sound
  * Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMS4rfGrTwz8W7jhC1Jnv7g
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  * GitHub: https://github.com/jeanette-c

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Lost in the crystal sky
You are this melody
That's where you take me <3
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As I noted in my response, adding the signals gives a notch filter, whereas subtracting them gives a peak at the centre frequency.

Prof. Victor Lazzarini
Maynooth University
Ireland

> On 25 Jun 2024, at 14:07, Jeanette C.  wrote:
>
> *Warning*
>
> This email originated from outside of Maynooth University's Mail System. Do not reply, click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.
>
> Hi Risto!
> Jun 25 2024, Risto Kuusisto has written:
> ...
>> a) -a2+a1 or
>> b) a2-a1
> ...
> thank Risto, that makes a lot of sense.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Jeanette
>
> --
> * Website: http://juliencoder.de/ - for summer is a state of sound
> * Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMS4rfGrTwz8W7jhC1Jnv7g
> * Audiobombs: https://www.audiobombs.com/users/jeanette_c
> * GitHub: https://github.com/jeanette-c
>
> With you I get so high
> Lost in the crystal sky
> You are this melody
> That's where you take me <3
> (Britney Spears)
>
> Csound mailing list
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Hi Victor and Risto,
sorry, that was a slightly garbled reply. In the end both your replies 
together and someone having taken a look at the video made sense. I profess I 
don't really get the whole idea, but I can now replicate the signal flow. To 
lay it out:
aIn = some audio
aPhaser = phaser2(aIn, and the rest)
aPhaser2 = aIn - aPhaser
aOut = aPhaser - aPhasor2
In the end this should translate as:
aOut = aPhasor * 2 - aIn
Strange, but there you are. I'm working on it and will try different versions 
in the further development to see what - if any - difference it makes.

Best wishes,

Jeanette

-- 
  * Website: http://juliencoder.de - for summer is a state of sound
  * Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMS4rfGrTwz8W7jhC1Jnv7g
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