hello csounders,
i thought i didn't have much to-do with my time this night so i decide to read stuff about sound and then i discovered phon & sones

someone can explain like i'm 5 why this metric isn't added to csound? or decibels are just the same thing? like miles vs. kilometers?

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Hi Lucas,

maybe there’s a bit of confusion between all of these concepts. Let’s see:

1. The decibel scale is a linear scale for amplitude ratios. 6dB change is nearly doubling/halving amplitude.

2. Using the dB scale, we can set up some absolute amplitude scales, but these are created with a given
reference, e.g.

- 0dbfs scale: the reference is the max amplitude before clipping

- SPL scale: the reference amplitude is the threshold of hearing at 1 KHz.

3. Phons is a measurement of perceived equal loudness for sine tones, which is equivalent to SPL at 1KHz
and follows the equal loudness contours as defined by an ISO standard. Sones is a similar measurement but
not equivalent. These can are not normally used directly in measurement of loudness, but they form a framework
for it.

4. There are well-defined loudness measurement schemes (such as dB(a) etc amplitude), which apply a filtering
of the signal to improve the perceptual dimension of the measurement. A common measurement standard is LUFS,
which seems to be used widely now (e.g. streaming services use it to control content loudness). We have this,

https://csound.com/manual/lufs.html

Hope that helps
========================
Prof. Victor Lazzarini
Maynooth University
Ireland

> On 30 Nov 2023, at 03:24, Lucas Ceccon Martinelli <00000fa7b5cfaa13-dmarc-request@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE> wrote:
>
> *Warning*
>
> This email originated from outside of Maynooth University's Mail System. Do not reply, click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.
>
> hello csounders,
> i thought i didn't have much to-do with my time this night so i decide to read stuff about sound and then i discovered phon & sones
>
> someone can explain like i'm 5 why this metric isn't added to csound? or decibels are just the same thing? like miles vs. kilometers?
>
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here


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Of course I meant
" These are not normally used directly in measurement of loudness, but they form a framework
for it.”
on item 3
========================
Prof. Victor Lazzarini
Maynooth University
Ireland

> On 30 Nov 2023, at 10:18, Victor Lazzarini  wrote:
>
> Hi Lucas,
>
> maybe there’s a bit of confusion between all of these concepts. Let’s see:
>
> 1. The decibel scale is a linear scale for amplitude ratios. 6dB change is nearly doubling/halving amplitude.
>
> 2. Using the dB scale, we can set up some absolute amplitude scales, but these are created with a given
> reference, e.g.
>
> - 0dbfs scale: the reference is the max amplitude before clipping
>
> - SPL scale: the reference amplitude is the threshold of hearing at 1 KHz.
>
> 3. Phons is a measurement of perceived equal loudness for sine tones, which is equivalent to SPL at 1KHz
> and follows the equal loudness contours as defined by an ISO standard. Sones is a similar measurement but
> not equivalent. These can are not normally used directly in measurement of loudness, but they form a framework
> for it.
>
> 4. There are well-defined loudness measurement schemes (such as dB(a) etc amplitude), which apply a filtering
> of the signal to improve the perceptual dimension of the measurement. A common measurement standard is LUFS,
> which seems to be used widely now (e.g. streaming services use it to control content loudness). We have this,
>
> https://csound.com/manual/lufs.html
>
> Hope that helps
> ========================
> Prof. Victor Lazzarini
> Maynooth University
> Ireland
>
>> On 30 Nov 2023, at 03:24, Lucas Ceccon Martinelli <00000fa7b5cfaa13-dmarc-request@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE> wrote:
>>
>> *Warning*
>>
>> This email originated from outside of Maynooth University's Mail System. Do not reply, click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.
>>
>> hello csounders,
>> i thought i didn't have much to-do with my time this night so i decide to read stuff about sound and then i discovered phon & sones
>>
>> someone can explain like i'm 5 why this metric isn't added to csound? or decibels are just the same thing? like miles vs. kilometers?
>>
>> Csound mailing list
>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> Send bugs reports to
>>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
>
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here


Csound mailing list
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Send bugs reports to
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.. and there is the sone gen


-------- Original Message --------
From: Victor Lazzarini 
Sent: Thu Nov 30 10:18:19 GMT 2023
To: csound@listserv.heanet.ie
Subject: Re: [Csnd] [EXTERNAL] [Csnd] phon & sones

Hi Lucas,

maybe there’s a bit of confusion between all of these concepts. Let’s see:

1. The decibel scale is a linear scale for amplitude ratios. 6dB change is nearly doubling/halving amplitude.

2. Using the dB scale, we can set up some absolute amplitude scales, but these are created with a given
reference, e.g.

- 0dbfs scale: the reference is the max amplitude before clipping

- SPL scale: the reference amplitude is the threshold of hearing at 1 KHz.

3. Phons is a measurement of perceived equal loudness for sine tones, which is equivalent to SPL at 1KHz
and follows the equal loudness contours as defined by an ISO standard. Sones is a similar measurement but
not equivalent. These can are not normally used directly in measurement of loudness, but they form a framework
for it.

4. There are well-defined loudness measurement schemes (such as dB(a) etc amplitude), which apply a filtering
of the signal to improve the perceptual dimension of the measurement. A common measurement standard is LUFS,
which seems to be used widely now (e.g. streaming services use it to control content loudness). We have this,

https://csound.com/manual/lufs.html

Hope that helps
========================
Prof. Victor Lazzarini
Maynooth University
Ireland

> On 30 Nov 2023, at 03:24, Lucas Ceccon Martinelli <00000fa7b5cfaa13-dmarc-request@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE> wrote:
>
> *Warning*
>
> This email originated from outside of Maynooth University's Mail System. Do not reply, click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.
>
> hello csounders,
> i thought i didn't have much to-do with my time this night so i decide to read stuff about sound and then i discovered phon & sones
>
> someone can explain like i'm 5 why this metric isn't added to csound? or decibels are just the same thing? like miles vs. kilometers?
>
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here


Csound mailing list
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https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

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Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here