[Csnd] A remaining weak-spot w/re: Csound

[Csnd] A remaining weak-spot w/re: Csound

Date	2023-03-12 17:56
From	Aaron Krister Johnson
Subject	[Csnd] A remaining weak-spot w/re: Csound
	Hi all, I was recently discussing Csound with colleagues, and singing its praises. However I did have to mention an odd corner of concern: for anyone seriously interested in Karplus-Strong style synthesis that didn't feel comfortable building that universe from scratch, I have to advise them to stay clear. Of all the out of box opcodes I have played with, only "pluck" stays in tune. But it is limited in its parameters and doesn't support as many options like defining an excitation signal yourself, etc. To get in-tune plucks that are actually in tune to arbitrary accuracy, I've had to do one of the following: 1) resort to ksmps=1 low level implementations (with varied levels of success) 2) use a Faust custom-built opcode that csound could use. 3) use other software altogether. I know that there is a strong drive to preserve legacy opcode behavior, but honestly, I think in reality that doesn't always come to pass, as I have had .csd files I try to use years later on a new version suddenly fail due to API changes. So, I wonder aloud if it is at all possible for the hardcore DSP devs to look at the limitations (tuning-wise) of the pluck-related opcodes and fix those pitch quantization issues...? Or maybe add some next-gen pitch accurate ones to the mix? It should be possible, because the Faust code plugin ended up working beautifully. And yes, I can and will continue to use it in the meantime, but I think newbs to Csound should also benefit from out-of-the-box flexible, and in tune, "*pluck" opcodes... Another possibility is that the Faust code I am using can be used as a basis for a new opcode one of the devs could incorporate. I am happy to share it. -A Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Date	2023-03-12 19:37
From	Oeyvind Brandtsegg
Subject	Re: [Csnd] A remaining weak-spot w/re: Csound
Attachments	waveguide_udos.inc
	Hi Aaron, Victor did some nice UDOs in the 2016 Csound book on Springer. They might behave more to your expectations. I attach an include file with the UDOs. The String opcode is used like: aout String iamp, icps, ifeedback, ipluck_pos, ipickup_pos all best Øyvind søn. 12. mar. 2023 kl. 18:57 skrev Aaron Krister Johnson <akjmicro@gmail.com>: Hi all, I was recently discussing Csound with colleagues, and singing its praises. However I did have to mention an odd corner of concern: for anyone seriously interested in Karplus-Strong style synthesis that didn't feel comfortable building that universe from scratch, I have to advise them to stay clear. Of all the out of box opcodes I have played with, only "pluck" stays in tune. But it is limited in its parameters and doesn't support as many options like defining an excitation signal yourself, etc. To get in-tune plucks that are actually in tune to arbitrary accuracy, I've had to do one of the following: 1) resort to ksmps=1 low level implementations (with varied levels of success) 2) use a Faust custom-built opcode that csound could use. 3) use other software altogether. I know that there is a strong drive to preserve legacy opcode behavior, but honestly, I think in reality that doesn't always come to pass, as I have had .csd files I try to use years later on a new version suddenly fail due to API changes. So, I wonder aloud if it is at all possible for the hardcore DSP devs to look at the limitations (tuning-wise) of the pluck-related opcodes and fix those pitch quantization issues...? Or maybe add some next-gen pitch accurate ones to the mix? It should be possible, because the Faust code plugin ended up working beautifully. And yes, I can and will continue to use it in the meantime, but I think newbs to Csound should also benefit from out-of-the-box flexible, and in tune, "*pluck" opcodes... Another possibility is that the Faust code I am using can be used as a basis for a new opcode one of the devs could incorporate. I am happy to share it. -A Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Date	2023-03-12 21:49
From	Victor Lazzarini
Subject	Re: [Csnd] [EXTERNAL] [Csnd] A remaining weak-spot w/re: Csound
	If you are only using one delay line it is possible to implement a pluck waveguide without need to do sample-by-sample processing. The delayr-w pair can implement feedback without much difficulty. The simple LP filter can be done with delay1, so that can be inserted without any problems. The fine tuning can be done with allpass filter that can be implemented with filter2 or even biquad. Or alternatively you can just used an interpolated tap to give the correct fractional delay. I think I posted an example here from one of my classes last time this was discussed. I can look for it next time I'm on the computer. Prof. Victor Lazzarini Maynooth University Ireland On 12 Mar 2023, at 17:58, Aaron Krister Johnson <akjmicro@gmail.com> wrote: Warning This email originated from outside of Maynooth University's Mail System. Do not reply, click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe. Hi all, I was recently discussing Csound with colleagues, and singing its praises. However I did have to mention an odd corner of concern: for anyone seriously interested in Karplus-Strong style synthesis that didn't feel comfortable building that universe from scratch, I have to advise them to stay clear. Of all the out of box opcodes I have played with, only "pluck" stays in tune. But it is limited in its parameters and doesn't support as many options like defining an excitation signal yourself, etc. To get in-tune plucks that are actually in tune to arbitrary accuracy, I've had to do one of the following: 1) resort to ksmps=1 low level implementations (with varied levels of success) 2) use a Faust custom-built opcode that csound could use. 3) use other software altogether. I know that there is a strong drive to preserve legacy opcode behavior, but honestly, I think in reality that doesn't always come to pass, as I have had .csd files I try to use years later on a new version suddenly fail due to API changes. So, I wonder aloud if it is at all possible for the hardcore DSP devs to look at the limitations (tuning-wise) of the pluck-related opcodes and fix those pitch quantization issues...? Or maybe add some next-gen pitch accurate ones to the mix? It should be possible, because the Faust code plugin ended up working beautifully. And yes, I can and will continue to use it in the meantime, but I think newbs to Csound should also benefit from out-of-the-box flexible, and in tune, "*pluck" opcodes... Another possibility is that the Faust code I am using can be used as a basis for a new opcode one of the devs could incorporate. I am happy to share it. -A Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Date	2023-03-13 09:38
From	Victor Lazzarini
Subject	Re: [Csnd] [EXTERNAL] [Csnd] A remaining weak-spot w/re: Csound
Attachments	pluck-model-cubic.csd
	and here is an example, attached. ======================== Prof. Victor Lazzarini Maynooth University Ireland > On 12 Mar 2023, at 21:49, Victor Lazzarini <Victor.Lazzarini@mu.ie> wrote: > > If you are only using one delay line it is possible to implement a pluck waveguide without need to do sample-by-sample processing. > > The delayr-w pair can implement feedback without much difficulty. The simple LP filter can be done with delay1, so that can be inserted without any problems. The fine tuning can be done with allpass filter that can be implemented with filter2 or even biquad. Or alternatively you can just used an interpolated tap to give the correct fractional delay. > > I think I posted an example here from one of my classes last time this was discussed. I can look for it next time I'm on the computer. > > Prof. Victor Lazzarini > Maynooth University > Ireland > >> On 12 Mar 2023, at 17:58, Aaron Krister Johnson <akjmicro@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> WARNINGThis email originated from outside of Maynooth University's Mail System. Do not reply, click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe. >> Hi all, >> >> I was recently discussing Csound with colleagues, and singing its praises. However I did have to mention an odd corner of concern: for anyone seriously interested in Karplus-Strong style synthesis that didn't feel comfortable building that universe from scratch, I have to advise them to stay clear. Of all the out of box opcodes I have played with, only "pluck" stays in tune. But it is limited in its parameters and doesn't support as many options like defining an excitation signal yourself, etc. To get in-tune plucks that are actually in tune to arbitrary accuracy, I've had to do one of the following: >> >> 1) resort to ksmps=1 low level implementations (with varied levels of success) >> >> 2) use a Faust custom-built opcode that csound could use. >> >> 3) use other software altogether. >> >> I know that there is a strong drive to preserve legacy opcode behavior, but honestly, I think in reality that doesn't always come to pass, as I have had .csd files I try to use years later on a new version suddenly fail due to API changes. So, I wonder aloud if it is at all possible for the hardcore DSP devs to look at the limitations (tuning-wise) of the pluck-related opcodes and fix those pitch quantization issues...? Or maybe add some next-gen pitch accurate ones to the mix? It should be possible, because the Faust code plugin ended up working beautifully. And yes, I can and will continue to use it in the meantime, but I think newbs to Csound should also benefit from out-of-the-box flexible, and in tune, "*pluck" opcodes... >> >> Another possibility is that the Faust code I am using can be used as a basis for a new opcode one of the devs could incorporate. I am happy to share it. >> >> -A >> >> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Date	2023-03-13 10:59
From	joachim heintz
Subject	Re: [Csnd] [EXTERNAL] [Csnd] A remaining weak-spot w/re: Csound
	it runs for me, but with zero amp as output. On 13/03/2023 10:38, Victor Lazzarini wrote: > and here is an example, attached. > ======================== > Prof. Victor Lazzarini > Maynooth University > Ireland > >> On 12 Mar 2023, at 21:49, Victor Lazzarini wrote: >> >> If you are only using one delay line it is possible to implement a pluck waveguide without need to do sample-by-sample processing. >> >> The delayr-w pair can implement feedback without much difficulty. The simple LP filter can be done with delay1, so that can be inserted without any problems. The fine tuning can be done with allpass filter that can be implemented with filter2 or even biquad. Or alternatively you can just used an interpolated tap to give the > correct fractional delay. >> >> I think I posted an example here from one of my classes last time this was discussed. I can look for it next time I'm on the computer. >> >> Prof. Victor Lazzarini >> Maynooth University >> Ireland >> >>> On 12 Mar 2023, at 17:58, Aaron Krister Johnson wrote: >>> >>> >>> WARNINGThis email originated from outside of Maynooth University's Mail System. Do not reply, click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe. >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I was recently discussing Csound with colleagues, and singing its praises. However I did have to mention an odd corner of concern: for anyone seriously interested in Karplus-Strong style synthesis that didn't feel comfortable building that universe from scratch, I have to advise them to stay clear. Of all the out of box > opcodes I have played with, only "pluck" stays in tune. But it is > limited in its parameters and doesn't support as many options like > defining an excitation signal yourself, etc. To get in-tune plucks that > are actually in tune to arbitrary accuracy, I've had to do one of the > following: >>> >>> 1) resort to ksmps=1 low level implementations (with varied levels of success) >>> >>> 2) use a Faust custom-built opcode that csound could use. >>> >>> 3) use other software altogether. >>> >>> I know that there is a strong drive to preserve legacy opcode behavior, but honestly, I think in reality that doesn't always come to pass, as I have had .csd files I try to use years later on a new version suddenly fail due to API changes. So, I wonder aloud if it is at all possible for the hardcore DSP devs to look at the > limitations (tuning-wise) of the pluck-related opcodes and fix those > pitch quantization issues...? Or maybe add some next-gen pitch accurate > ones to the mix? It should be possible, because the Faust code plugin > ended up working beautifully. And yes, I can and will continue to use it > in the meantime, but I think newbs to Csound should also benefit from > out-of-the-box flexible, and in tune, "*pluck" opcodes... >>> >>> Another possibility is that the Faust code I am using can be used as a basis for a new opcode one of the devs could incorporate. I am happy to share it. >>> >>> -A >>> >>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND > Send bugs reports to > https://github.com/csound/csound/issues > Discussions of bugs and > features can be posted here >> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND > Send bugs reports to > https://github.com/csound/csound/issues > Discussions of bugs and > features can be posted here > > Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie > > https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND > Send bugs reports to > https://github.com/csound/csound/issues > Discussions of bugs and > features can be posted here Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Date	2023-03-13 11:35
From	Victor Lazzarini
Subject	Re: [Csnd] [EXTERNAL] [Csnd] A remaining weak-spot w/re: Csound
	Csound 7.0 must have a bug: --Csound version 6.18 (double samples) Nov 24 2022 [commit: a1580f9cdf331c35dceb486f4231871ce0b00266] libsndfile-1.1.0 graphics suppressed, ascii substituted sr = 44100.0, kr = 4410.000, ksmps = 10 0dBFS level = 1.0, A4 tuning = 440.0 orch now loaded audio buffered in 1024 sample-frame blocks PortAudio V19.7.0-devel, revision 147dd722548358763a8b649b3e4b41dfffbcfbb6 0: dac0 (BlackHole 2ch [Core Audio, 2 in, 2 out]) 1: dac1 (External Headphones [Core Audio, 0 in, 2 out]) 2: dac2 (MacBook Pro Speakers [Core Audio, 0 in, 2 out]) 3: dac3 (Microsoft Teams Audio [Core Audio, 2 in, 2 out]) 4: dac4 (ZoomAudioDevice [Core Audio, 2 in, 2 out]) 5: dac5 (Multi-Output Device [Core Audio, 0 in, 2 out]) 6: dac6 (Aggregate Device [Core Audio, 2 in, 4 out]) PortAudio: selected output device 'External Headphones' writing 1024 sample blks of 64-bit floats to dac SECTION 1: new alloc for instr 1: rtevent: T 0.375 TT 0.375 M: 0.46543 new alloc for instr 1: rtevent: T 0.750 TT 0.750 M: 0.68172 new alloc for instr 1: rtevent: T 1.125 TT 1.125 M: 0.74759 new alloc for instr 1: rtevent: T 1.500 TT 1.500 M: 0.78027 new alloc for instr 1: rtevent: T 1.875 TT 1.875 M: 0.82665 new alloc for instr 1: rtevent: T 2.250 TT 2.250 M: 0.67594 rtevent: T 2.625 TT 2.625 M: 0.72071 rtevent: T 3.000 TT 3.000 M: 0.75303 rtevent: T 3.375 TT 3.375 M: 0.75758 rtevent: T 3.750 TT 3.750 M: 0.77514 rtevent: T 4.125 TT 4.125 M: 0.78055 rtevent: T 4.500 TT 4.500 M: 0.68964 rtevent: T 4.875 TT 4.875 M: 0.71552 rtevent: T 5.250 TT 5.250 M: 0.65596 rtevent: T 5.625 TT 5.625 M: 0.73197 rtevent: T 6.000 TT 6.000 M: 0.72657 rtevent: T 8.375 TT 8.375 M: 0.67049 Score finished in csoundPerform(). inactive allocs returned to freespace end of score. overall amps: 0.82665 overall samples out of range: 0 0 errors in performance Elapsed time at end of performance: real: 8.496s, CPU: 0.166s closing device 361 1024 sample blks of 64-bit floats written to dac ======================== Prof. Victor Lazzarini Maynooth University Ireland > On 13 Mar 2023, at 10:59, joachim heintz wrote: > > it runs for me, but with zero amp as output. > > > On 13/03/2023 10:38, Victor Lazzarini wrote: >> and here is an example, attached. >> ======================== >> Prof. Victor Lazzarini >> Maynooth University >> Ireland >>> On 12 Mar 2023, at 21:49, Victor Lazzarini wrote: >>> If you are only using one delay line it is possible to implement a pluck waveguide without need to do sample-by-sample processing. >>> The delayr-w pair can implement feedback without much difficulty. The simple LP filter can be done with delay1, so that can be inserted without any problems. The fine tuning can be done with allpass filter that can be implemented with filter2 or even biquad. Or alternatively you can just used an interpolated tap to give the >> correct fractional delay. >>> I think I posted an example here from one of my classes last time this was discussed. I can look for it next time I'm on the computer. >>> Prof. Victor Lazzarini >>> Maynooth University >>> Ireland >>>> On 12 Mar 2023, at 17:58, Aaron Krister Johnson wrote: >>>> >>>> WARNINGThis email originated from outside of Maynooth University's Mail System. Do not reply, click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe. >>>> Hi all, >>>> I was recently discussing Csound with colleagues, and singing its praises. However I did have to mention an odd corner of concern: for anyone seriously interested in Karplus-Strong style synthesis that didn't feel comfortable building that universe from scratch, I have to advise them to stay clear. Of all the out of box >> opcodes I have played with, only "pluck" stays in tune. But it is limited in its parameters and doesn't support as many options like defining an excitation signal yourself, etc. To get in-tune plucks that are actually in tune to arbitrary accuracy, I've had to do one of the following: >>>> 1) resort to ksmps=1 low level implementations (with varied levels of success) >>>> 2) use a Faust custom-built opcode that csound could use. >>>> 3) use other software altogether. >>>> I know that there is a strong drive to preserve legacy opcode behavior, but honestly, I think in reality that doesn't always come to pass, as I have had .csd files I try to use years later on a new version suddenly fail due to API changes. So, I wonder aloud if it is at all possible for the hardcore DSP devs to look at the >> limitations (tuning-wise) of the pluck-related opcodes and fix those pitch quantization issues...? Or maybe add some next-gen pitch accurate ones to the mix? It should be possible, because the Faust code plugin ended up working beautifully. And yes, I can and will continue to use it in the meantime, but I think newbs to Csound should also benefit from out-of-the-box flexible, and in tune, "*pluck" opcodes... >>>> Another possibility is that the Faust code I am using can be used as a basis for a new opcode one of the devs could incorporate. I am happy to share it. >>>> -A >>>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&data=05%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C03ab80dfbe5e4ecf683308db23b2198f%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C0%7C0%7C638143020058703266%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=k1WCuuUCippuAfwHt93MXHJ6nMCzuLbkh23ez%2BA2PRE%3D&reserved=0 >> Send bugs reports to https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&data=05%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C03ab80dfbe5e4ecf683308db23b2198f%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C0%7C0%7C638143020058703266%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=VQa7FML19osG%2F0WoyNQDT2wajMPIgc3U2hKs4BYQldE%3D&reserved=0 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&data=05%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C03ab80dfbe5e4ecf683308db23b2198f%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C0%7C0%7C638143020058703266%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=k1WCuuUCippuAfwHt93MXHJ6nMCzuLbkh23ez%2BA2PRE%3D&reserved=0 >> Send bugs reports to https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&data=05%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C03ab80dfbe5e4ecf683308db23b2198f%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C0%7C0%7C638143020058703266%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=VQa7FML19osG%2F0WoyNQDT2wajMPIgc3U2hKs4BYQldE%3D&reserved=0 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&data=05%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C03ab80dfbe5e4ecf683308db23b2198f%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C0%7C0%7C638143020058703266%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=k1WCuuUCippuAfwHt93MXHJ6nMCzuLbkh23ez%2BA2PRE%3D&reserved=0 Send bugs reports to https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&data=05%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C03ab80dfbe5e4ecf683308db23b2198f%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C0%7C0%7C638143020058703266%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=VQa7FML19osG%2F0WoyNQDT2wajMPIgc3U2hKs4BYQldE%3D&reserved=0 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > > Csound mailing list > Csound@listserv.heanet.ie > https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&data=05%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C03ab80dfbe5e4ecf683308db23b2198f%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C0%7C0%7C638143020058703266%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=k1WCuuUCippuAfwHt93MXHJ6nMCzuLbkh23ez%2BA2PRE%3D&reserved=0 > Send bugs reports to > https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&data=05%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C03ab80dfbe5e4ecf683308db23b2198f%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C0%7C0%7C638143020058703266%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=VQa7FML19osG%2F0WoyNQDT2wajMPIgc3U2hKs4BYQldE%3D&reserved=0 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Date	2023-03-13 11:46
From	joachim heintz
Subject	Re: [Csnd] [EXTERNAL] [Csnd] A remaining weak-spot w/re: Csound
	yes. i see this: > WARNING: cngoto: perf-time code in global space, ignored complete output: UnifiedCSD: /home/jh/Desktop/test.csd rtaudio: JACK module enabled WARNING: cngoto: perf-time code in global space, ignored Elapsed time at end of orchestra compile: real: 0.002s, CPU: 0.002s sorting score ... ... done Elapsed time at end of score sort: real: 0.003s, CPU: 0.003s --Csound version 7.0 (double samples) Mar 9 2023 [commit: 2503fc0b439f70973a6ee9fdd810fda6d111882c] libsndfile-1.0.31 sr = 44100.0, kr = 689.062, ksmps = 64 0dBFS level = 1.0, A4 tuning = 440.0 orch now loaded audio buffered in 256 sample-frame blocks reading 1024-byte blks of shorts from adc:system:capture_ (RAW) system sr: 44100.000000 Jack input ports: 0: adc0 (adc:system:capture_1) 1: adc1 (adc:system:capture_2) 2: adc2 (adc:csound6:output1) 3: adc3 (adc:csound6:output2) connecting channel 0 to system:capture_1 connecting channel 1 to system:capture_2 Jack output ports: 0: dac0 (dac:system:playback_1) 1: dac1 (dac:system:playback_2) 2: dac2 (dac:csound6:input1) 3: dac3 (dac:csound6:input2) connecting channel 0 to system:playback_1 connecting channel 1 to system:playback_2 writing 512 sample blks of 64-bit floats to dac:system:playback_ SECTION 1: new alloc for instr 1: WARNING: rtjack: xrun in real time audio rtevent: T 0.374 TT 0.374 M: 0.00000 0.00000 new alloc for instr 1: rtevent: T 0.750 TT 0.750 M: 0.00000 0.00000 new alloc for instr 1: rtevent: T 1.125 TT 1.125 M: 0.00000 0.00000 new alloc for instr 1: rtevent: T 1.501 TT 1.501 M: 0.00000 0.00000 new alloc for instr 1: rtevent: T 1.875 TT 1.875 M: 0.00000 0.00000 new alloc for instr 1: rtevent: T 2.249 TT 2.249 M: 0.00000 0.00000 rtevent: T 2.625 TT 2.625 M: 0.00000 0.00000 rtevent: T 3.000 TT 3.000 M: 0.00000 0.00000 rtevent: T 3.376 TT 3.376 M: 0.00000 0.00000 rtevent: T 3.750 TT 3.750 M: 0.00000 0.00000 rtevent: T 4.124 TT 4.124 M: 0.00000 0.00000 rtevent: T 4.500 TT 4.500 M: 0.00000 0.00000 rtevent: T 4.875 TT 4.875 M: 0.00000 0.00000 rtevent: T 5.251 TT 5.251 M: 0.00000 0.00000 rtevent: T 5.625 TT 5.625 M: 0.00000 0.00000 rtevent: T 5.999 TT 5.999 M: 0.00000 0.00000 rtevent: T 8.375 TT 8.375 M: 0.00000 0.00000 Score finished in csoundPerformKsmps() with 2. inactive allocs returned to freespace end of score. overall amps: 0.00000 0.00000 overall samples out of range: 0 0 0 errors in performance Elapsed time at end of performance: real: 8.441s, CPU: 0.670s --Csound version 7.0 (double samples) Mar 9 2023 [commit: 2503fc0b439f70973a6ee9fdd810fda6d111882c] 1443 512 sample blks of 64-bit floats written to dac:system:playback_ On 13/03/2023 12:35, Victor Lazzarini wrote: > Csound 7.0 must have a bug: > > --Csound version 6.18 (double samples) Nov 24 2022 > [commit: a1580f9cdf331c35dceb486f4231871ce0b00266] > libsndfile-1.1.0 > graphics suppressed, ascii substituted > sr = 44100.0, kr = 4410.000, ksmps = 10 > 0dBFS level = 1.0, A4 tuning = 440.0 > orch now loaded > audio buffered in 1024 sample-frame blocks > PortAudio V19.7.0-devel, revision 147dd722548358763a8b649b3e4b41dfffbcfbb6 > 0: dac0 (BlackHole 2ch [Core Audio, 2 in, 2 out]) > 1: dac1 (External Headphones [Core Audio, 0 in, 2 out]) > 2: dac2 (MacBook Pro Speakers [Core Audio, 0 in, 2 out]) > 3: dac3 (Microsoft Teams Audio [Core Audio, 2 in, 2 out]) > 4: dac4 (ZoomAudioDevice [Core Audio, 2 in, 2 out]) > 5: dac5 (Multi-Output Device [Core Audio, 0 in, 2 out]) > 6: dac6 (Aggregate Device [Core Audio, 2 in, 4 out]) > PortAudio: selected output device 'External Headphones' > writing 1024 sample blks of 64-bit floats to dac > SECTION 1: > new alloc for instr 1: > rtevent: T 0.375 TT 0.375 M: 0.46543 > new alloc for instr 1: > rtevent: T 0.750 TT 0.750 M: 0.68172 > new alloc for instr 1: > rtevent: T 1.125 TT 1.125 M: 0.74759 > new alloc for instr 1: > rtevent: T 1.500 TT 1.500 M: 0.78027 > new alloc for instr 1: > rtevent: T 1.875 TT 1.875 M: 0.82665 > new alloc for instr 1: > rtevent: T 2.250 TT 2.250 M: 0.67594 > rtevent: T 2.625 TT 2.625 M: 0.72071 > rtevent: T 3.000 TT 3.000 M: 0.75303 > rtevent: T 3.375 TT 3.375 M: 0.75758 > rtevent: T 3.750 TT 3.750 M: 0.77514 > rtevent: T 4.125 TT 4.125 M: 0.78055 > rtevent: T 4.500 TT 4.500 M: 0.68964 > rtevent: T 4.875 TT 4.875 M: 0.71552 > rtevent: T 5.250 TT 5.250 M: 0.65596 > rtevent: T 5.625 TT 5.625 M: 0.73197 > rtevent: T 6.000 TT 6.000 M: 0.72657 > rtevent: T 8.375 TT 8.375 M: 0.67049 > Score finished in csoundPerform(). > inactive allocs returned to freespace > end of score. overall amps: 0.82665 > overall samples out of range: 0 > 0 errors in performance > Elapsed time at end of performance: real: 8.496s, CPU: 0.166s > closing device > 361 1024 sample blks of 64-bit floats written to dac > > ======================== > Prof. Victor Lazzarini > Maynooth University > Ireland > >> On 13 Mar 2023, at 10:59, joachim heintz wrote: >> >> it runs for me, but with zero amp as output. >> >> >> On 13/03/2023 10:38, Victor Lazzarini wrote: >>> and here is an example, attached. >>> ======================== >>> Prof. Victor Lazzarini >>> Maynooth University >>> Ireland >>>> On 12 Mar 2023, at 21:49, Victor Lazzarini wrote: >>>> If you are only using one delay line it is possible to implement a pluck waveguide without need to do sample-by-sample processing. >>>> The delayr-w pair can implement feedback without much difficulty. The simple LP filter can be done with delay1, so that can be inserted without any problems. The fine tuning can be done with allpass filter that can be implemented with filter2 or even biquad. Or alternatively you can just used an interpolated tap to give the >>> correct fractional delay. >>>> I think I posted an example here from one of my classes last time this was discussed. I can look for it next time I'm on the computer. >>>> Prof. Victor Lazzarini >>>> Maynooth University >>>> Ireland >>>>> On 12 Mar 2023, at 17:58, Aaron Krister Johnson wrote: >>>>> >>>>> WARNINGThis email originated from outside of Maynooth University's Mail System. Do not reply, click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe. >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I was recently discussing Csound with colleagues, and singing its praises. However I did have to mention an odd corner of concern: for anyone seriously interested in Karplus-Strong style synthesis that didn't feel comfortable building that universe from scratch, I have to advise them to stay clear. Of all the out of box >>> opcodes I have played with, only "pluck" stays in tune. But it is limited in its parameters and doesn't support as many options like defining an excitation signal yourself, etc. To get in-tune plucks that are actually in tune to arbitrary accuracy, I've had to do one of the following: >>>>> 1) resort to ksmps=1 low level implementations (with varied levels of success) >>>>> 2) use a Faust custom-built opcode that csound could use. >>>>> 3) use other software altogether. >>>>> I know that there is a strong drive to preserve legacy opcode behavior, but honestly, I think in reality that doesn't always come to pass, as I have had .csd files I try to use years later on a new version suddenly fail due to API changes. So, I wonder aloud if it is at all possible for the hardcore DSP devs to look at the >>> limitations (tuning-wise) of the pluck-related opcodes and fix those pitch quantization issues...? Or maybe add some next-gen pitch accurate ones to the mix? It should be possible, because the Faust code plugin ended up working beautifully. And yes, I can and will continue to use it in the meantime, but I think newbs to Csound should also benefit from out-of-the-box flexible, and in tune, "*pluck" opcodes... >>>>> Another possibility is that the Faust code I am using can be used as a basis for a new opcode one of the devs could incorporate. I am happy to share it. >>>>> -A >>>>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&data=05%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C03ab80dfbe5e4ecf683308db23b2198f%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C0%7C0%7C638143020058703266%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=k1WCuuUCippuAfwHt93MXHJ6nMCzuLbkh23ez%2BA2PRE%3D&reserved=0 >>> Send bugs reports to https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&data=05%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C03ab80dfbe5e4ecf683308db23b2198f%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C0%7C0%7C638143020058703266%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=VQa7FML19osG%2F0WoyNQDT2wajMPIgc3U2hKs4BYQldE%3D&reserved=0 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >>>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&data=05%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C03ab80dfbe5e4ecf683308db23b2198f%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C0%7C0%7C638143020058703266%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=k1WCuuUCippuAfwHt93MXHJ6nMCzuLbkh23ez%2BA2PRE%3D&reserved=0 >>> Send bugs reports to https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&data=05%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C03ab80dfbe5e4ecf683308db23b2198f%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C0%7C0%7C638143020058703266%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=VQa7FML19osG%2F0WoyNQDT2wajMPIgc3U2hKs4BYQldE%3D&reserved=0 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&data=05%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C03ab80dfbe5e4ecf683308db23b2198f%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C0%7C0%7C638143020058703266%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=k1WCuuUCippuAfwHt93MXHJ6nMCzuLbkh23ez%2BA2PRE%3D&reserved=0 Send bugs reports to https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&data=05%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C03ab80dfbe5e4ecf683308db23b2198f%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C0%7C0%7C638143020058703266%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=VQa7FML19osG%2F0WoyNQDT2wajMPIgc3U2hKs4BYQldE%3D&reserved=0 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >> >> Csound mailing list >> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie >> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&data=05%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C03ab80dfbe5e4ecf683308db23b2198f%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C0%7C0%7C638143020058703266%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=k1WCuuUCippuAfwHt93MXHJ6nMCzuLbkh23ez%2BA2PRE%3D&reserved=0 >> Send bugs reports to >> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&data=05%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C03ab80dfbe5e4ecf683308db23b2198f%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C0%7C0%7C638143020058703266%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=VQa7FML19osG%2F0WoyNQDT2wajMPIgc3U2hKs4BYQldE%3D&reserved=0 >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > > > Csound mailing list > Csound@listserv.heanet.ie > https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND > Send bugs reports to > https://github.com/csound/csound/issues > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Date	2023-03-13 11:57
From	Victor Lazzarini
Subject	Re: [Csnd] [EXTERNAL] [Csnd] A remaining weak-spot w/re: Csound
	that’s a spurious warning alright (and needs to be fixed), but the loop works anyway. The problem appears to be with the feedback inside delayr/w that seems to make the output 0. I don’t know why, another 7.0 bug to check. ======================== Prof. Victor Lazzarini Maynooth University Ireland > On 13 Mar 2023, at 11:46, joachim heintz wrote: > > yes. i see this: > > WARNING: cngoto: perf-time code in global space, ignored > > complete output: > UnifiedCSD: /home/jh/Desktop/test.csd > rtaudio: JACK module enabled > WARNING: cngoto: perf-time code in global space, ignored > Elapsed time at end of orchestra compile: real: 0.002s, CPU: 0.002s > sorting score ... > ... done > Elapsed time at end of score sort: real: 0.003s, CPU: 0.003s > --Csound version 7.0 (double samples) Mar 9 2023 > [commit: 2503fc0b439f70973a6ee9fdd810fda6d111882c] > libsndfile-1.0.31 > sr = 44100.0, kr = 689.062, ksmps = 64 > 0dBFS level = 1.0, A4 tuning = 440.0 > orch now loaded > audio buffered in 256 sample-frame blocks > reading 1024-byte blks of shorts from adc:system:capture_ (RAW) > system sr: 44100.000000 > Jack input ports: > 0: adc0 (adc:system:capture_1) > 1: adc1 (adc:system:capture_2) > 2: adc2 (adc:csound6:output1) > 3: adc3 (adc:csound6:output2) > connecting channel 0 to system:capture_1 > connecting channel 1 to system:capture_2 > Jack output ports: > 0: dac0 (dac:system:playback_1) > 1: dac1 (dac:system:playback_2) > 2: dac2 (dac:csound6:input1) > 3: dac3 (dac:csound6:input2) > connecting channel 0 to system:playback_1 > connecting channel 1 to system:playback_2 > writing 512 sample blks of 64-bit floats to dac:system:playback_ > SECTION 1: > new alloc for instr 1: > WARNING: rtjack: xrun in real time audio > rtevent: T 0.374 TT 0.374 M: 0.00000 0.00000 > new alloc for instr 1: > rtevent: T 0.750 TT 0.750 M: 0.00000 0.00000 > new alloc for instr 1: > rtevent: T 1.125 TT 1.125 M: 0.00000 0.00000 > new alloc for instr 1: > rtevent: T 1.501 TT 1.501 M: 0.00000 0.00000 > new alloc for instr 1: > rtevent: T 1.875 TT 1.875 M: 0.00000 0.00000 > new alloc for instr 1: > rtevent: T 2.249 TT 2.249 M: 0.00000 0.00000 > rtevent: T 2.625 TT 2.625 M: 0.00000 0.00000 > rtevent: T 3.000 TT 3.000 M: 0.00000 0.00000 > rtevent: T 3.376 TT 3.376 M: 0.00000 0.00000 > rtevent: T 3.750 TT 3.750 M: 0.00000 0.00000 > rtevent: T 4.124 TT 4.124 M: 0.00000 0.00000 > rtevent: T 4.500 TT 4.500 M: 0.00000 0.00000 > rtevent: T 4.875 TT 4.875 M: 0.00000 0.00000 > rtevent: T 5.251 TT 5.251 M: 0.00000 0.00000 > rtevent: T 5.625 TT 5.625 M: 0.00000 0.00000 > rtevent: T 5.999 TT 5.999 M: 0.00000 0.00000 > rtevent: T 8.375 TT 8.375 M: 0.00000 0.00000 > Score finished in csoundPerformKsmps() with 2. > inactive allocs returned to freespace > end of score. overall amps: 0.00000 0.00000 > overall samples out of range: 0 0 > 0 errors in performance > Elapsed time at end of performance: real: 8.441s, CPU: 0.670s > --Csound version 7.0 (double samples) Mar 9 2023 > [commit: 2503fc0b439f70973a6ee9fdd810fda6d111882c] > 1443 512 sample blks of 64-bit floats written to dac:system:playback_ > > > On 13/03/2023 12:35, Victor Lazzarini wrote: >> Csound 7.0 must have a bug: >> --Csound version 6.18 (double samples) Nov 24 2022 >> [commit: a1580f9cdf331c35dceb486f4231871ce0b00266] >> libsndfile-1.1.0 >> graphics suppressed, ascii substituted >> sr = 44100.0, kr = 4410.000, ksmps = 10 >> 0dBFS level = 1.0, A4 tuning = 440.0 >> orch now loaded >> audio buffered in 1024 sample-frame blocks >> PortAudio V19.7.0-devel, revision 147dd722548358763a8b649b3e4b41dfffbcfbb6 >> 0: dac0 (BlackHole 2ch [Core Audio, 2 in, 2 out]) >> 1: dac1 (External Headphones [Core Audio, 0 in, 2 out]) >> 2: dac2 (MacBook Pro Speakers [Core Audio, 0 in, 2 out]) >> 3: dac3 (Microsoft Teams Audio [Core Audio, 2 in, 2 out]) >> 4: dac4 (ZoomAudioDevice [Core Audio, 2 in, 2 out]) >> 5: dac5 (Multi-Output Device [Core Audio, 0 in, 2 out]) >> 6: dac6 (Aggregate Device [Core Audio, 2 in, 4 out]) >> PortAudio: selected output device 'External Headphones' >> writing 1024 sample blks of 64-bit floats to dac >> SECTION 1: >> new alloc for instr 1: >> rtevent: T 0.375 TT 0.375 M: 0.46543 >> new alloc for instr 1: >> rtevent: T 0.750 TT 0.750 M: 0.68172 >> new alloc for instr 1: >> rtevent: T 1.125 TT 1.125 M: 0.74759 >> new alloc for instr 1: >> rtevent: T 1.500 TT 1.500 M: 0.78027 >> new alloc for instr 1: >> rtevent: T 1.875 TT 1.875 M: 0.82665 >> new alloc for instr 1: >> rtevent: T 2.250 TT 2.250 M: 0.67594 >> rtevent: T 2.625 TT 2.625 M: 0.72071 >> rtevent: T 3.000 TT 3.000 M: 0.75303 >> rtevent: T 3.375 TT 3.375 M: 0.75758 >> rtevent: T 3.750 TT 3.750 M: 0.77514 >> rtevent: T 4.125 TT 4.125 M: 0.78055 >> rtevent: T 4.500 TT 4.500 M: 0.68964 >> rtevent: T 4.875 TT 4.875 M: 0.71552 >> rtevent: T 5.250 TT 5.250 M: 0.65596 >> rtevent: T 5.625 TT 5.625 M: 0.73197 >> rtevent: T 6.000 TT 6.000 M: 0.72657 >> rtevent: T 8.375 TT 8.375 M: 0.67049 >> Score finished in csoundPerform(). >> inactive allocs returned to freespace >> end of score. overall amps: 0.82665 >> overall samples out of range: 0 >> 0 errors in performance >> Elapsed time at end of performance: real: 8.496s, CPU: 0.166s >> closing device >> 361 1024 sample blks of 64-bit floats written to dac >> ======================== >> Prof. Victor Lazzarini >> Maynooth University >> Ireland >>> On 13 Mar 2023, at 10:59, joachim heintz wrote: >>> >>> it runs for me, but with zero amp as output. >>> >>> >>> On 13/03/2023 10:38, Victor Lazzarini wrote: >>>> and here is an example, attached. >>>> ======================== >>>> Prof. Victor Lazzarini >>>> Maynooth University >>>> Ireland >>>>> On 12 Mar 2023, at 21:49, Victor Lazzarini wrote: >>>>> If you are only using one delay line it is possible to implement a pluck waveguide without need to do sample-by-sample processing. >>>>> The delayr-w pair can implement feedback without much difficulty. The simple LP filter can be done with delay1, so that can be inserted without any problems. The fine tuning can be done with allpass filter that can be implemented with filter2 or even biquad. Or alternatively you can just used an interpolated tap to give the >>>> correct fractional delay. >>>>> I think I posted an example here from one of my classes last time this was discussed. I can look for it next time I'm on the computer. >>>>> Prof. Victor Lazzarini >>>>> Maynooth University >>>>> Ireland >>>>>> On 12 Mar 2023, at 17:58, Aaron Krister Johnson wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> WARNINGThis email originated from outside of Maynooth University's Mail System. Do not reply, click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe. >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I was recently discussing Csound with colleagues, and singing its praises. However I did have to mention an odd corner of concern: for anyone seriously interested in Karplus-Strong style synthesis that didn't feel comfortable building that universe from scratch, I have to advise them to stay clear. Of all the out of box >>>> opcodes I have played with, only "pluck" stays in tune. But it is limited in its parameters and doesn't support as many options like defining an excitation signal yourself, etc. To get in-tune plucks that are actually in tune to arbitrary accuracy, I've had to do one of the following: >>>>>> 1) resort to ksmps=1 low level implementations (with varied levels of success) >>>>>> 2) use a Faust custom-built opcode that csound could use. >>>>>> 3) use other software altogether. >>>>>> I know that there is a strong drive to preserve legacy opcode behavior, but honestly, I think in reality that doesn't always come to pass, as I have had .csd files I try to use years later on a new version suddenly fail due to API changes. So, I wonder aloud if it is at all possible for the hardcore DSP devs to look at the >>>> limitations (tuning-wise) of the pluck-related opcodes and fix those pitch quantization issues...? Or maybe add some next-gen pitch accurate ones to the mix? It should be possible, because the Faust code plugin ended up working beautifully. And yes, I can and will continue to use it in the meantime, but I think newbs to Csound should also benefit from out-of-the-box flexible, and in tune, "*pluck" opcodes... >>>>>> Another possibility is that the Faust code I am using can be used as a basis for a new opcode one of the devs could incorporate. I am happy to share it. >>>>>> -A >>>>>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&data=05%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C338bceeffcf54201c34a08db23b8a033%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C0%7C0%7C638143048088290767%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=jBGTO18GymRibU2L%2Byu76hUyJytp4y3ML8GcYQ%2B%2FScw%3D&reserved=0 >>>> Send bugs reports to https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&data=05%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C338bceeffcf54201c34a08db23b8a033%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C0%7C0%7C638143048088290767%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=NbUaJhvSMI%2B0AlFcOP%2BYZmQmU%2F%2BCDrYLja9pWuFtsM0%3D&reserved=0 Discussions of bugs and features 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Date	2023-03-13 12:16
From	Victor Lazzarini
Subject	Re: [Csnd] [EXTERNAL] [Csnd] A remaining weak-spot w/re: Csound
	The 7.0 parser does not like ig(aks + delay1(aks))0.5 so if this is changed to (aks + delay1(aks))0.5ig there’s sound. A bug in expression parsing. At least we know where it is now. ======================== Prof. Victor Lazzarini Maynooth University Ireland > On 13 Mar 2023, at 11:57, Victor Lazzarini wrote: > > that’s a spurious warning alright (and needs to be fixed), but the loop works anyway. > > The problem appears to be with the feedback inside delayr/w that seems to make the > output 0. I don’t know why, another 7.0 bug to check. > ======================== > Prof. Victor Lazzarini > Maynooth University > Ireland > >> On 13 Mar 2023, at 11:46, joachim heintz wrote: >> >> yes. i see this: >>> WARNING: cngoto: perf-time code in global space, ignored >> >> complete output: >> UnifiedCSD: /home/jh/Desktop/test.csd >> rtaudio: JACK module enabled >> WARNING: cngoto: perf-time code in global space, ignored >> Elapsed time at end of orchestra compile: real: 0.002s, CPU: 0.002s >> sorting score ... >> ... done >> Elapsed time at end of score sort: real: 0.003s, CPU: 0.003s >> --Csound version 7.0 (double samples) Mar 9 2023 >> [commit: 2503fc0b439f70973a6ee9fdd810fda6d111882c] >> libsndfile-1.0.31 >> sr = 44100.0, kr = 689.062, ksmps = 64 >> 0dBFS level = 1.0, A4 tuning = 440.0 >> orch now loaded >> audio buffered in 256 sample-frame blocks >> reading 1024-byte blks of shorts from adc:system:capture_ (RAW) >> system sr: 44100.000000 >> Jack input ports: >> 0: adc0 (adc:system:capture_1) >> 1: adc1 (adc:system:capture_2) >> 2: adc2 (adc:csound6:output1) >> 3: adc3 (adc:csound6:output2) >> connecting channel 0 to system:capture_1 >> connecting channel 1 to system:capture_2 >> Jack output ports: >> 0: dac0 (dac:system:playback_1) >> 1: dac1 (dac:system:playback_2) >> 2: dac2 (dac:csound6:input1) >> 3: dac3 (dac:csound6:input2) >> connecting channel 0 to system:playback_1 >> connecting channel 1 to system:playback_2 >> writing 512 sample blks of 64-bit floats to dac:system:playback_ >> SECTION 1: >> new alloc for instr 1: >> WARNING: rtjack: xrun in real time audio >> rtevent: T 0.374 TT 0.374 M: 0.00000 0.00000 >> new alloc for instr 1: >> rtevent: T 0.750 TT 0.750 M: 0.00000 0.00000 >> new alloc for instr 1: >> rtevent: T 1.125 TT 1.125 M: 0.00000 0.00000 >> new alloc for instr 1: >> rtevent: T 1.501 TT 1.501 M: 0.00000 0.00000 >> new alloc for instr 1: >> rtevent: T 1.875 TT 1.875 M: 0.00000 0.00000 >> new alloc for instr 1: >> rtevent: T 2.249 TT 2.249 M: 0.00000 0.00000 >> rtevent: T 2.625 TT 2.625 M: 0.00000 0.00000 >> rtevent: T 3.000 TT 3.000 M: 0.00000 0.00000 >> rtevent: T 3.376 TT 3.376 M: 0.00000 0.00000 >> rtevent: T 3.750 TT 3.750 M: 0.00000 0.00000 >> rtevent: T 4.124 TT 4.124 M: 0.00000 0.00000 >> rtevent: T 4.500 TT 4.500 M: 0.00000 0.00000 >> rtevent: T 4.875 TT 4.875 M: 0.00000 0.00000 >> rtevent: T 5.251 TT 5.251 M: 0.00000 0.00000 >> rtevent: T 5.625 TT 5.625 M: 0.00000 0.00000 >> rtevent: T 5.999 TT 5.999 M: 0.00000 0.00000 >> rtevent: T 8.375 TT 8.375 M: 0.00000 0.00000 >> Score finished in csoundPerformKsmps() with 2. >> inactive allocs returned to freespace >> end of score. overall amps: 0.00000 0.00000 >> overall samples out of range: 0 0 >> 0 errors in performance >> Elapsed time at end of performance: real: 8.441s, CPU: 0.670s >> --Csound version 7.0 (double samples) Mar 9 2023 >> [commit: 2503fc0b439f70973a6ee9fdd810fda6d111882c] >> 1443 512 sample blks of 64-bit floats written to dac:system:playback_ >> >> >> On 13/03/2023 12:35, Victor Lazzarini wrote: >>> Csound 7.0 must have a bug: >>> --Csound version 6.18 (double samples) Nov 24 2022 >>> [commit: a1580f9cdf331c35dceb486f4231871ce0b00266] >>> libsndfile-1.1.0 >>> graphics suppressed, ascii substituted >>> sr = 44100.0, kr = 4410.000, ksmps = 10 >>> 0dBFS level = 1.0, A4 tuning = 440.0 >>> orch now loaded >>> audio buffered in 1024 sample-frame blocks >>> PortAudio V19.7.0-devel, revision 147dd722548358763a8b649b3e4b41dfffbcfbb6 >>> 0: dac0 (BlackHole 2ch [Core Audio, 2 in, 2 out]) >>> 1: dac1 (External Headphones [Core Audio, 0 in, 2 out]) >>> 2: dac2 (MacBook Pro Speakers [Core Audio, 0 in, 2 out]) >>> 3: dac3 (Microsoft Teams Audio [Core Audio, 2 in, 2 out]) >>> 4: dac4 (ZoomAudioDevice [Core Audio, 2 in, 2 out]) >>> 5: dac5 (Multi-Output Device [Core Audio, 0 in, 2 out]) >>> 6: dac6 (Aggregate Device [Core Audio, 2 in, 4 out]) >>> PortAudio: selected output device 'External Headphones' >>> writing 1024 sample blks of 64-bit floats to dac >>> SECTION 1: >>> new alloc for instr 1: >>> rtevent: T 0.375 TT 0.375 M: 0.46543 >>> new alloc for instr 1: >>> rtevent: T 0.750 TT 0.750 M: 0.68172 >>> new alloc for instr 1: >>> rtevent: T 1.125 TT 1.125 M: 0.74759 >>> new alloc for instr 1: >>> rtevent: T 1.500 TT 1.500 M: 0.78027 >>> new alloc for instr 1: >>> rtevent: T 1.875 TT 1.875 M: 0.82665 >>> new alloc for instr 1: >>> rtevent: T 2.250 TT 2.250 M: 0.67594 >>> rtevent: T 2.625 TT 2.625 M: 0.72071 >>> rtevent: T 3.000 TT 3.000 M: 0.75303 >>> rtevent: T 3.375 TT 3.375 M: 0.75758 >>> rtevent: T 3.750 TT 3.750 M: 0.77514 >>> rtevent: T 4.125 TT 4.125 M: 0.78055 >>> rtevent: T 4.500 TT 4.500 M: 0.68964 >>> rtevent: T 4.875 TT 4.875 M: 0.71552 >>> rtevent: T 5.250 TT 5.250 M: 0.65596 >>> rtevent: T 5.625 TT 5.625 M: 0.73197 >>> rtevent: T 6.000 TT 6.000 M: 0.72657 >>> rtevent: T 8.375 TT 8.375 M: 0.67049 >>> Score finished in csoundPerform(). >>> inactive allocs returned to freespace >>> end of score. overall amps: 0.82665 >>> overall samples out of range: 0 >>> 0 errors in performance >>> Elapsed time at end of performance: real: 8.496s, CPU: 0.166s >>> closing device >>> 361 1024 sample blks of 64-bit floats written to dac >>> ======================== >>> Prof. Victor Lazzarini >>> Maynooth University >>> Ireland >>>> On 13 Mar 2023, at 10:59, joachim heintz wrote: >>>> >>>> it runs for me, but with zero amp as output. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 13/03/2023 10:38, Victor Lazzarini wrote: >>>>> and here is an example, attached. >>>>> ======================== >>>>> Prof. Victor Lazzarini >>>>> Maynooth University >>>>> Ireland >>>>>> On 12 Mar 2023, at 21:49, Victor Lazzarini wrote: >>>>>> If you are only using one delay line it is possible to implement a pluck waveguide without need to do sample-by-sample processing. >>>>>> The delayr-w pair can implement feedback without much difficulty. The simple LP filter can be done with delay1, so that can be inserted without any problems. The fine tuning can be done with allpass filter that can be implemented with filter2 or even biquad. Or alternatively you can just used an interpolated tap to give the >>>>> correct fractional delay. >>>>>> I think I posted an example here from one of my classes last time this was discussed. I can look for it next time I'm on the computer. >>>>>> Prof. Victor Lazzarini >>>>>> Maynooth University >>>>>> Ireland >>>>>>> On 12 Mar 2023, at 17:58, Aaron Krister Johnson wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> WARNINGThis email originated from outside of Maynooth University's Mail System. Do not reply, click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe. >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> I was recently discussing Csound with colleagues, and singing its praises. However I did have to mention an odd corner of concern: for anyone seriously interested in Karplus-Strong style synthesis that didn't feel comfortable building that universe from scratch, I have to advise them to stay clear. Of all the out of box >>>>> opcodes I have played with, only "pluck" stays in tune. But it is limited in its parameters and doesn't support as many options like defining an excitation signal yourself, etc. To get in-tune plucks that are actually in tune to arbitrary accuracy, I've had to do one of the following: >>>>>>> 1) resort to ksmps=1 low level implementations (with varied levels of success) >>>>>>> 2) use a Faust custom-built opcode that csound could use. >>>>>>> 3) use other software altogether. >>>>>>> I know that there is a strong drive to preserve legacy opcode behavior, but honestly, I think in reality that doesn't always come to pass, as I have had .csd files I try to use years later on a new version suddenly fail due to API changes. So, I wonder aloud if it is at all possible for the hardcore DSP devs to look at the >>>>> limitations (tuning-wise) of the pluck-related opcodes and fix those pitch quantization issues...? Or maybe add some next-gen pitch accurate ones to the mix? It should be possible, because the Faust code plugin ended up working beautifully. And yes, I can and will continue to use it in the meantime, but I think newbs to Csound should also benefit from out-of-the-box flexible, and in tune, "*pluck" opcodes... >>>>>>> Another possibility is that the Faust code I am using can be used as a basis for a new opcode one of the devs could incorporate. I am happy to share it. >>>>>>> -A >>>>>>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&data=05%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C0021e4f99d5d41d9b72e08db23ba2fa3%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C0%7C0%7C638143054799813391%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=VaTC3Ivr9%2BpLagR%2BlPig48aQzJtOisGOqe2W8016YI4%3D&reserved=0 >>>>> Send bugs reports to https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&data=05%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C0021e4f99d5d41d9b72e08db23ba2fa3%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C0%7C0%7C638143054799813391%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=IGcdE9cNJ%2BCI1CRHzeowR6jX7xsPHcYQZq53WUkF%2BPQ%3D&reserved=0 Discussions of bugs and features can 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Date	2023-03-13 16:33
From	Aaron Krister Johnson
Subject	Re: [Csnd] [EXTERNAL] [Csnd] A remaining weak-spot w/re: Csound
	Thanks for this example; will try out. FYI, I've tried examples before, and they work fine...I was just more lobbying for an out-of-the-box solution that didn't involve _having_ to "roll-your-own", as it were. Another way of asking: can't these solutions become 1st-class opcode citizens in some future release? If it's deemed that "correcting" the existing opcodes might break backwards compatibility, perhaps a new opcode called "superpluck" or something like that? (That's what I affectionately have called my Faust-ian solution locally). I see such an opcode a win overall for existing and future Csound users. Cheers, Aaron Krister Johnson Music, etc.: http://www.untwelve.org https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_utjGYbSizWE0dNyr0Vdmg https://soundcloud.com/aaron-krister-johnson https://soundcloud.com/filtercreed https://aaronkristerjohnson.bandcamp.com/ Code: https://github.com/akjmicro On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 4:35 AM Victor Lazzarini <Victor.Lazzarini@mu.ie> wrote: Csound 7.0 must have a bug: --Csound version 6.18 (double samples) Nov 24 2022 [commit: a1580f9cdf331c35dceb486f4231871ce0b00266] libsndfile-1.1.0 graphics suppressed, ascii substituted sr = 44100.0, kr = 4410.000, ksmps = 10 0dBFS level = 1.0, A4 tuning = 440.0 orch now loaded audio buffered in 1024 sample-frame blocks PortAudio V19.7.0-devel, revision 147dd722548358763a8b649b3e4b41dfffbcfbb6 0: dac0 (BlackHole 2ch [Core Audio, 2 in, 2 out]) 1: dac1 (External Headphones [Core Audio, 0 in, 2 out]) 2: dac2 (MacBook Pro Speakers [Core Audio, 0 in, 2 out]) 3: dac3 (Microsoft Teams Audio [Core Audio, 2 in, 2 out]) 4: dac4 (ZoomAudioDevice [Core Audio, 2 in, 2 out]) 5: dac5 (Multi-Output Device [Core Audio, 0 in, 2 out]) 6: dac6 (Aggregate Device [Core Audio, 2 in, 4 out]) PortAudio: selected output device 'External Headphones' writing 1024 sample blks of 64-bit floats to dac SECTION 1: new alloc for instr 1: rtevent: T 0.375 TT 0.375 M: 0.46543 new alloc for instr 1: rtevent: T 0.750 TT 0.750 M: 0.68172 new alloc for instr 1: rtevent: T 1.125 TT 1.125 M: 0.74759 new alloc for instr 1: rtevent: T 1.500 TT 1.500 M: 0.78027 new alloc for instr 1: rtevent: T 1.875 TT 1.875 M: 0.82665 new alloc for instr 1: rtevent: T 2.250 TT 2.250 M: 0.67594 rtevent: T 2.625 TT 2.625 M: 0.72071 rtevent: T 3.000 TT 3.000 M: 0.75303 rtevent: T 3.375 TT 3.375 M: 0.75758 rtevent: T 3.750 TT 3.750 M: 0.77514 rtevent: T 4.125 TT 4.125 M: 0.78055 rtevent: T 4.500 TT 4.500 M: 0.68964 rtevent: T 4.875 TT 4.875 M: 0.71552 rtevent: T 5.250 TT 5.250 M: 0.65596 rtevent: T 5.625 TT 5.625 M: 0.73197 rtevent: T 6.000 TT 6.000 M: 0.72657 rtevent: T 8.375 TT 8.375 M: 0.67049 Score finished in csoundPerform(). inactive allocs returned to freespace end of score. overall amps: 0.82665 overall samples out of range: 0 0 errors in performance Elapsed time at end of performance: real: 8.496s, CPU: 0.166s closing device 361 1024 sample blks of 64-bit floats written to dac ======================== Prof. Victor Lazzarini Maynooth University Ireland > On 13 Mar 2023, at 10:59, joachim heintz <jh@JOACHIMHEINTZ.DE> wrote: > > it runs for me, but with zero amp as output. > > > On 13/03/2023 10:38, Victor Lazzarini wrote: >> and here is an example, attached. >> ======================== >> Prof. Victor Lazzarini >> Maynooth University >> Ireland >>> On 12 Mar 2023, at 21:49, Victor Lazzarini <Victor.Lazzarini@mu.ie> wrote: >>> If you are only using one delay line it is possible to implement a pluck waveguide without need to do sample-by-sample processing. >>> The delayr-w pair can implement feedback without much difficulty. The simple LP filter can be done with delay1, so that can be inserted without any problems. The fine tuning can be done with allpass filter that can be implemented with filter2 or even biquad. Or alternatively you can just used an interpolated tap to give the >> correct fractional delay. >>> I think I posted an example here from one of my classes last time this was discussed. I can look for it next time I'm on the computer. >>> Prof. Victor Lazzarini >>> Maynooth University >>> Ireland >>>> On 12 Mar 2023, at 17:58, Aaron Krister Johnson <akjmicro@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> WARNINGThis email originated from outside of Maynooth University's Mail System. Do not reply, click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe. >>>> Hi all, >>>> I was recently discussing Csound with colleagues, and singing its praises. However I did have to mention an odd corner of concern: for anyone seriously interested in Karplus-Strong style synthesis that didn't feel comfortable building that universe from scratch, I have to advise them to stay clear. Of all the out of box >> opcodes I have played with, only "pluck" stays in tune. But it is limited in its parameters and doesn't support as many options like defining an excitation signal yourself, etc. To get in-tune plucks that are actually in tune to arbitrary accuracy, I've had to do one of the following: >>>> 1) resort to ksmps=1 low level implementations (with varied levels of success) >>>> 2) use a Faust custom-built opcode that csound could use. >>>> 3) use other software altogether. >>>> I know that there is a strong drive to preserve legacy opcode behavior, but honestly, I think in reality that doesn't always come to pass, as I have had .csd files I try to use years later on a new version suddenly fail due to API changes. So, I wonder aloud if it is at all possible for the hardcore DSP devs to look at the >> limitations (tuning-wise) of the pluck-related opcodes and fix those pitch quantization issues...? Or maybe add some next-gen pitch accurate ones to the mix? It should be possible, because the Faust code plugin ended up working beautifully. And yes, I can and will continue to use it in the meantime, but I think newbs to Csound should also benefit from out-of-the-box flexible, and in tune, "*pluck" opcodes... >>>> Another possibility is that the Faust code I am using can be used as a basis for a new opcode one of the devs could incorporate. I am happy to share it. >>>> -A >>>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&data=05%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C03ab80dfbe5e4ecf683308db23b2198f%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C0%7C0%7C638143020058703266%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=k1WCuuUCippuAfwHt93MXHJ6nMCzuLbkh23ez%2BA2PRE%3D&reserved=0 >> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&data=05%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C03ab80dfbe5e4ecf683308db23b2198f%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C0%7C0%7C638143020058703266%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=k1WCuuUCippuAfwHt93MXHJ6nMCzuLbkh23ez%2BA2PRE%3D&reserved=0> Send bugs reports to 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Date	2023-03-13 16:49
From	Victor Lazzarini
Subject	Re: [Csnd] [EXTERNAL] [Csnd] A remaining weak-spot w/re: Csound
	I think it is bad that those opcodes are out of tune. Not sure where to go with it. Possible best to deprecate. I could certainly make an opcode to implement this code here, but not sure if it is the best thing. Note that the classic “pluck” opcode is perfectly in tune although it does not have a decay time control. ======================== Prof. Victor Lazzarini Maynooth University Ireland > On 13 Mar 2023, at 16:33, Aaron Krister Johnson wrote: > > Thanks for this example; will try out. > > FYI, I've tried examples before, and they work fine...I was just more lobbying for an out-of-the-box solution that didn't involve _having_ to "roll-your-own", as it were. > > Another way of asking: can't these solutions become 1st-class opcode citizens in some future release? If it's deemed that "correcting" the existing opcodes might break backwards compatibility, perhaps a new opcode called "superpluck" or something like that? (That's what I affectionately have called my Faust-ian solution locally). I see such an opcode a win overall for existing and future Csound users. > > Cheers, > > Aaron Krister Johnson > Music, etc.: > http://www.untwelve.org > https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_utjGYbSizWE0dNyr0Vdmg > https://soundcloud.com/aaron-krister-johnson > https://soundcloud.com/filtercreed > https://aaronkristerjohnson.bandcamp.com/ > Code: > https://github.com/akjmicro > > > On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 4:35 AM Victor Lazzarini wrote: > Csound 7.0 must have a bug: > > --Csound version 6.18 (double samples) Nov 24 2022 > [commit: a1580f9cdf331c35dceb486f4231871ce0b00266] > libsndfile-1.1.0 > graphics suppressed, ascii substituted > sr = 44100.0, kr = 4410.000, ksmps = 10 > 0dBFS level = 1.0, A4 tuning = 440.0 > orch now loaded > audio buffered in 1024 sample-frame blocks > PortAudio V19.7.0-devel, revision 147dd722548358763a8b649b3e4b41dfffbcfbb6 > 0: dac0 (BlackHole 2ch [Core Audio, 2 in, 2 out]) > 1: dac1 (External Headphones [Core Audio, 0 in, 2 out]) > 2: dac2 (MacBook Pro Speakers [Core Audio, 0 in, 2 out]) > 3: dac3 (Microsoft Teams Audio [Core Audio, 2 in, 2 out]) > 4: dac4 (ZoomAudioDevice [Core Audio, 2 in, 2 out]) > 5: dac5 (Multi-Output Device [Core Audio, 0 in, 2 out]) > 6: dac6 (Aggregate Device [Core Audio, 2 in, 4 out]) > PortAudio: selected output device 'External Headphones' > writing 1024 sample blks of 64-bit floats to dac > SECTION 1: > new alloc for instr 1: > rtevent: T 0.375 TT 0.375 M: 0.46543 > new alloc for instr 1: > rtevent: T 0.750 TT 0.750 M: 0.68172 > new alloc for instr 1: > rtevent: T 1.125 TT 1.125 M: 0.74759 > new alloc for instr 1: > rtevent: T 1.500 TT 1.500 M: 0.78027 > new alloc for instr 1: > rtevent: T 1.875 TT 1.875 M: 0.82665 > new alloc for instr 1: > rtevent: T 2.250 TT 2.250 M: 0.67594 > rtevent: T 2.625 TT 2.625 M: 0.72071 > rtevent: T 3.000 TT 3.000 M: 0.75303 > rtevent: T 3.375 TT 3.375 M: 0.75758 > rtevent: T 3.750 TT 3.750 M: 0.77514 > rtevent: T 4.125 TT 4.125 M: 0.78055 > rtevent: T 4.500 TT 4.500 M: 0.68964 > rtevent: T 4.875 TT 4.875 M: 0.71552 > rtevent: T 5.250 TT 5.250 M: 0.65596 > rtevent: T 5.625 TT 5.625 M: 0.73197 > rtevent: T 6.000 TT 6.000 M: 0.72657 > rtevent: T 8.375 TT 8.375 M: 0.67049 > Score finished in csoundPerform(). > inactive allocs returned to freespace > end of score. overall amps: 0.82665 > overall samples out of range: 0 > 0 errors in performance > Elapsed time at end of performance: real: 8.496s, CPU: 0.166s > closing device > 361 1024 sample blks of 64-bit floats written to dac > > ======================== > Prof. Victor Lazzarini > Maynooth University > Ireland > > > On 13 Mar 2023, at 10:59, joachim heintz wrote: > > > > it runs for me, but with zero amp as output. > > > > > > On 13/03/2023 10:38, Victor Lazzarini wrote: > >> and here is an example, attached. > >> ======================== > >> Prof. Victor Lazzarini > >> Maynooth University > >> Ireland > >>> On 12 Mar 2023, at 21:49, Victor Lazzarini wrote: > >>> If you are only using one delay line it is possible to implement a pluck waveguide without need to do sample-by-sample processing. > >>> The delayr-w pair can implement feedback without much difficulty. The simple LP filter can be done with delay1, so that can be inserted without any problems. The fine tuning can be done with allpass filter that can be implemented with filter2 or even biquad. Or alternatively you can just used an interpolated tap to give the > >> correct fractional delay. > >>> I think I posted an example here from one of my classes last time this was discussed. I can look for it next time I'm on the computer. > >>> Prof. Victor Lazzarini > >>> Maynooth University > >>> Ireland > >>>> On 12 Mar 2023, at 17:58, Aaron Krister Johnson wrote: > >>>> > >>>> WARNINGThis email originated from outside of Maynooth University's Mail System. Do not reply, click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe. > >>>> Hi all, > >>>> I was recently discussing Csound with colleagues, and singing its praises. However I did have to mention an odd corner of concern: for anyone seriously interested in Karplus-Strong style synthesis that didn't feel comfortable building that universe from scratch, I have to advise them to stay clear. Of all the out of box > >> opcodes I have played with, only "pluck" stays in tune. But it is limited in its parameters and doesn't support as many options like defining an excitation signal yourself, etc. To get in-tune plucks that are actually in tune to arbitrary accuracy, I've had to do one of the following: > >>>> 1) resort to ksmps=1 low level implementations (with varied levels of success) > >>>> 2) use a Faust custom-built opcode that csound could use. > >>>> 3) use other software altogether. > >>>> I know that there is a strong drive to preserve legacy opcode behavior, but honestly, I think in reality that doesn't always come to pass, as I have had .csd files I try to use years later on a new version suddenly fail due to API changes. So, I wonder aloud if it is at all possible for the hardcore DSP devs to look at the > >> limitations (tuning-wise) of the pluck-related opcodes and fix those pitch quantization issues...? Or maybe add some next-gen pitch accurate ones to the mix? It should be possible, because the Faust code plugin ended up working beautifully. And yes, I can and will continue to use it in the meantime, but I think newbs to Csound should also benefit from out-of-the-box flexible, and in tune, "*pluck" opcodes... > >>>> Another possibility is that the Faust code I am using can be used as a basis for a new opcode one of the devs could incorporate. I am happy to share it. > >>>> -A > >>>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&data=05%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C03ab80dfbe5e4ecf683308db23b2198f%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C0%7C0%7C638143020058703266%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=k1WCuuUCippuAfwHt93MXHJ6nMCzuLbkh23ez%2BA2PRE%3D&reserved=0 > >> Send bugs reports to https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&data=05%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C03ab80dfbe5e4ecf683308db23b2198f%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C0%7C0%7C638143020058703266%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=VQa7FML19osG%2F0WoyNQDT2wajMPIgc3U2hKs4BYQldE%3D&reserved=0 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > >>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&data=05%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C03ab80dfbe5e4ecf683308db23b2198f%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C0%7C0%7C638143020058703266%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=k1WCuuUCippuAfwHt93MXHJ6nMCzuLbkh23ez%2BA2PRE%3D&reserved=0 > >> Send bugs reports to https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&data=05%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C03ab80dfbe5e4ecf683308db23b2198f%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C0%7C0%7C638143020058703266%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=VQa7FML19osG%2F0WoyNQDT2wajMPIgc3U2hKs4BYQldE%3D&reserved=0 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > >> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&data=05%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C03ab80dfbe5e4ecf683308db23b2198f%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C0%7C0%7C638143020058703266%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=k1WCuuUCippuAfwHt93MXHJ6nMCzuLbkh23ez%2BA2PRE%3D&reserved=0 Send bugs reports to https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&data=05%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C03ab80dfbe5e4ecf683308db23b2198f%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C0%7C0%7C638143020058703266%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=VQa7FML19osG%2F0WoyNQDT2wajMPIgc3U2hKs4BYQldE%3D&reserved=0 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > > > > Csound mailing list > > Csound@listserv.heanet.ie > > https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.heanet.ie%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3DCSOUND&data=05%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C03ab80dfbe5e4ecf683308db23b2198f%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C0%7C0%7C638143020058703266%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=k1WCuuUCippuAfwHt93MXHJ6nMCzuLbkh23ez%2BA2PRE%3D&reserved=0 > > Send bugs reports to > > https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcsound%2Fcsound%2Fissues&data=05%7C01%7CVictor.Lazzarini%40mu.ie%7C03ab80dfbe5e4ecf683308db23b2198f%7C1454f5ccbb354685bbd98621fd8055c9%7C0%7C0%7C638143020058703266%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=VQa7FML19osG%2F0WoyNQDT2wajMPIgc3U2hKs4BYQldE%3D&reserved=0 > > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > > > Csound mailing list > Csound@listserv.heanet.ie > https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND > Send bugs reports to > https://github.com/csound/csound/issues > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Date	2023-03-13 16:59
From	Aaron Krister Johnson
Subject	Re: [Csnd] [EXTERNAL] [Csnd] A remaining weak-spot w/re: Csound
	Yeah, pluck works, as far as tuning, AFAICT...however, having more sculpting options open for the user -- excitation signals, decay, stiffness, etc....in an out-of-box solution, would be ideal. I'll dig up my "superpluck" signal flow after work later and share the orchestra. Some kind of capturing of what that does, and the core code from Faust that keeps things in-tune, would be an ideal solution. I like the idea of deprecation of the older opcodes in favor of a modern robust opcode or opcode-family. Aaron Krister Johnson Music, etc.: http://www.untwelve.org https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_utjGYbSizWE0dNyr0Vdmg https://soundcloud.com/aaron-krister-johnson https://soundcloud.com/filtercreed https://aaronkristerjohnson.bandcamp.com/ Code: https://github.com/akjmicro On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 9:49 AM Victor Lazzarini <Victor.Lazzarini@mu.ie> wrote: I think it is bad that those opcodes are out of tune. Not sure where to go with it. Possible best to deprecate. I could certainly make an opcode to implement this code here, but not sure if it is the best thing. Note that the classic “pluck” opcode is perfectly in tune although it does not have a decay time control. ======================== Prof. Victor Lazzarini Maynooth University Ireland > On 13 Mar 2023, at 16:33, Aaron Krister Johnson <akjmicro@GMAIL.COM> wrote: > > Thanks for this example; will try out. > > FYI, I've tried examples before, and they work fine...I was just more lobbying for an out-of-the-box solution that didn't involve _having_ to "roll-your-own", as it were. > > Another way of asking: can't these solutions become 1st-class opcode citizens in some future release? If it's deemed that "correcting" the existing opcodes might break backwards compatibility, perhaps a new opcode called "superpluck" or something like that? (That's what I affectionately have called my Faust-ian solution locally). I see such an opcode a win overall for existing and future Csound users. > > Cheers, > > Aaron Krister Johnson > Music, etc.: > http://www.untwelve.org > https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_utjGYbSizWE0dNyr0Vdmg > https://soundcloud.com/aaron-krister-johnson > https://soundcloud.com/filtercreed > https://aaronkristerjohnson.bandcamp.com/ > Code: > https://github.com/akjmicro > > > On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 4:35 AM Victor Lazzarini <Victor.Lazzarini@mu.ie> wrote: > Csound 7.0 must have a bug: > > --Csound version 6.18 (double samples) Nov 24 2022 > [commit: a1580f9cdf331c35dceb486f4231871ce0b00266] > libsndfile-1.1.0 > graphics suppressed, ascii substituted > sr = 44100.0, kr = 4410.000, ksmps = 10 > 0dBFS level = 1.0, A4 tuning = 440.0 > orch now loaded > audio buffered in 1024 sample-frame blocks > PortAudio V19.7.0-devel, revision 147dd722548358763a8b649b3e4b41dfffbcfbb6 > 0: dac0 (BlackHole 2ch [Core Audio, 2 in, 2 out]) > 1: dac1 (External Headphones [Core Audio, 0 in, 2 out]) > 2: dac2 (MacBook Pro Speakers [Core Audio, 0 in, 2 out]) > 3: dac3 (Microsoft Teams Audio [Core Audio, 2 in, 2 out]) > 4: dac4 (ZoomAudioDevice [Core Audio, 2 in, 2 out]) > 5: dac5 (Multi-Output Device [Core Audio, 0 in, 2 out]) > 6: dac6 (Aggregate Device [Core Audio, 2 in, 4 out]) > PortAudio: selected output device 'External Headphones' > writing 1024 sample blks of 64-bit floats to dac > SECTION 1: > new alloc for instr 1: > rtevent: T 0.375 TT 0.375 M: 0.46543 > new alloc for instr 1: > rtevent: T 0.750 TT 0.750 M: 0.68172 > new alloc for instr 1: > rtevent: T 1.125 TT 1.125 M: 0.74759 > new alloc for instr 1: > rtevent: T 1.500 TT 1.500 M: 0.78027 > new alloc for instr 1: > rtevent: T 1.875 TT 1.875 M: 0.82665 > new alloc for instr 1: > rtevent: T 2.250 TT 2.250 M: 0.67594 > rtevent: T 2.625 TT 2.625 M: 0.72071 > rtevent: T 3.000 TT 3.000 M: 0.75303 > rtevent: T 3.375 TT 3.375 M: 0.75758 > rtevent: T 3.750 TT 3.750 M: 0.77514 > rtevent: T 4.125 TT 4.125 M: 0.78055 > rtevent: T 4.500 TT 4.500 M: 0.68964 > rtevent: T 4.875 TT 4.875 M: 0.71552 > rtevent: T 5.250 TT 5.250 M: 0.65596 > rtevent: T 5.625 TT 5.625 M: 0.73197 > rtevent: T 6.000 TT 6.000 M: 0.72657 > rtevent: T 8.375 TT 8.375 M: 0.67049 > Score finished in csoundPerform(). > inactive allocs returned to freespace > end of score. overall amps: 0.82665 > overall samples out of range: 0 > 0 errors in performance > Elapsed time at end of performance: real: 8.496s, CPU: 0.166s > closing device > 361 1024 sample blks of 64-bit floats written to dac > > ======================== > Prof. Victor Lazzarini > Maynooth University > Ireland > > > On 13 Mar 2023, at 10:59, joachim heintz <jh@JOACHIMHEINTZ.DE> wrote: > > > > it runs for me, but with zero amp as output. > > > > > > On 13/03/2023 10:38, Victor Lazzarini wrote: > >> and here is an example, attached. > >> ======================== > >> Prof. Victor Lazzarini > >> Maynooth University > >> Ireland > >>> On 12 Mar 2023, at 21:49, Victor Lazzarini <Victor.Lazzarini@mu.ie> wrote: > >>> If you are only using one delay line it is possible to implement a pluck waveguide without need to do sample-by-sample processing. > >>> The delayr-w pair can implement feedback without much difficulty. The simple LP filter can be done with delay1, so that can be inserted without any problems. The fine tuning can be done with allpass filter that can be implemented with filter2 or even biquad. Or alternatively you can just used an interpolated tap to give the > >> correct fractional delay. > >>> I think I posted an example here from one of my classes last time this was discussed. I can look for it next time I'm on the computer. > >>> Prof. Victor Lazzarini > >>> Maynooth University > >>> Ireland > >>>> On 12 Mar 2023, at 17:58, Aaron Krister Johnson <akjmicro@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> WARNINGThis email originated from outside of Maynooth University's Mail System. Do not reply, click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe. > >>>> Hi all, > >>>> I was recently discussing Csound with colleagues, and singing its praises. However I did have to mention an odd corner of concern: for anyone seriously interested in Karplus-Strong style synthesis that didn't feel comfortable building that universe from scratch, I have to advise them to stay clear. Of all the out of box > >> opcodes I have played with, only "pluck" stays in tune. But it is limited in its parameters and doesn't support as many options like defining an excitation signal yourself, etc. To get in-tune plucks that are actually in tune to arbitrary accuracy, I've had to do one of the following: > >>>> 1) resort to ksmps=1 low level implementations (with varied levels of success) > >>>> 2) use a Faust custom-built opcode that csound could use. > >>>> 3) use other software altogether. > >>>> I know that there is a strong drive to preserve legacy opcode behavior, but honestly, I think in reality that doesn't always come to pass, as I have had .csd files I try to use years later on a new version suddenly fail due to API changes. So, I wonder aloud if it is at all possible for the hardcore DSP devs to look at the > >> limitations (tuning-wise) of the pluck-related opcodes and fix those pitch quantization issues...? Or maybe add some next-gen pitch accurate ones to the mix? It should be possible, because the Faust code plugin ended up working beautifully. And yes, I can and will continue to use it in the meantime, but I think newbs to Csound should also benefit from out-of-the-box flexible, and in tune, "*pluck" opcodes... > >>>> Another possibility is that the Faust code I am using can be used as a basis for a new opcode one of the devs could incorporate. 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Date	2023-03-13 18:56
From	Victor Lazzarini
Subject	Re: [Csnd] [EXTERNAL] [Csnd] A remaining weak-spot w/re: Csound
	Also streson is definitely in tune. In fact we don't need code from Faust, that's just a standard waveguide. The delayr/w replaces it just fine, it id just as efficient. Prof. Victor Lazzarini Maynooth University Ireland On 13 Mar 2023, at 17:00, Aaron Krister Johnson <akjmicro@gmail.com> wrote: Yeah, pluck works, as far as tuning, AFAICT...however, having more sculpting options open for the user -- excitation signals, decay, stiffness, etc....in an out-of-box solution, would be ideal. I'll dig up my "superpluck" signal flow after work later and share the orchestra. Some kind of capturing of what that does, and the core code from Faust that keeps things in-tune, would be an ideal solution. I like the idea of deprecation of the older opcodes in favor of a modern robust opcode or opcode-family. Aaron Krister Johnson Music, etc.: http://www.untwelve.org https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_utjGYbSizWE0dNyr0Vdmg https://soundcloud.com/aaron-krister-johnson https://soundcloud.com/filtercreed https://aaronkristerjohnson.bandcamp.com/ Code: https://github.com/akjmicro On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 9:49 AM Victor Lazzarini <Victor.Lazzarini@mu.ie> wrote: I think it is bad that those opcodes are out of tune. Not sure where to go with it. Possible best to deprecate. I could certainly make an opcode to implement this code here, but not sure if it is the best thing. Note that the classic “pluck” opcode is perfectly in tune although it does not have a decay time control. ======================== Prof. Victor Lazzarini Maynooth University Ireland > On 13 Mar 2023, at 16:33, Aaron Krister Johnson <akjmicro@GMAIL.COM> wrote: > > Thanks for this example; will try out. > > FYI, I've tried examples before, and they work fine...I was just more lobbying for an out-of-the-box solution that didn't involve _having_ to "roll-your-own", as it were. > > Another way of asking: can't these solutions become 1st-class opcode citizens in some future release? If it's deemed that "correcting" the existing opcodes might break backwards compatibility, perhaps a new opcode called "superpluck" or something like that? (That's what I affectionately have called my Faust-ian solution locally). I see such an opcode a win overall for existing and future Csound users. > > Cheers, > > Aaron Krister Johnson > Music, etc.: > http://www.untwelve.org > https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_utjGYbSizWE0dNyr0Vdmg > https://soundcloud.com/aaron-krister-johnson > https://soundcloud.com/filtercreed > https://aaronkristerjohnson.bandcamp.com/ > Code: > https://github.com/akjmicro > > > On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 4:35 AM Victor Lazzarini <Victor.Lazzarini@mu.ie> wrote: > Csound 7.0 must have a bug: > > --Csound version 6.18 (double samples) Nov 24 2022 > [commit: a1580f9cdf331c35dceb486f4231871ce0b00266] > libsndfile-1.1.0 > graphics suppressed, ascii substituted > sr = 44100.0, kr = 4410.000, ksmps = 10 > 0dBFS level = 1.0, A4 tuning = 440.0 > orch now loaded > audio buffered in 1024 sample-frame blocks > PortAudio V19.7.0-devel, revision 147dd722548358763a8b649b3e4b41dfffbcfbb6 > 0: dac0 (BlackHole 2ch [Core Audio, 2 in, 2 out]) > 1: dac1 (External Headphones [Core Audio, 0 in, 2 out]) > 2: dac2 (MacBook Pro Speakers [Core Audio, 0 in, 2 out]) > 3: dac3 (Microsoft Teams Audio [Core Audio, 2 in, 2 out]) > 4: dac4 (ZoomAudioDevice [Core Audio, 2 in, 2 out]) > 5: dac5 (Multi-Output Device [Core Audio, 0 in, 2 out]) > 6: dac6 (Aggregate Device [Core Audio, 2 in, 4 out]) > PortAudio: selected output device 'External Headphones' > writing 1024 sample blks of 64-bit floats to dac > SECTION 1: > new alloc for instr 1: > rtevent: T 0.375 TT 0.375 M: 0.46543 > new alloc for instr 1: > rtevent: T 0.750 TT 0.750 M: 0.68172 > new alloc for instr 1: > rtevent: T 1.125 TT 1.125 M: 0.74759 > new alloc for instr 1: > rtevent: T 1.500 TT 1.500 M: 0.78027 > new alloc for instr 1: > rtevent: T 1.875 TT 1.875 M: 0.82665 > new alloc for instr 1: > rtevent: T 2.250 TT 2.250 M: 0.67594 > rtevent: T 2.625 TT 2.625 M: 0.72071 > rtevent: T 3.000 TT 3.000 M: 0.75303 > rtevent: T 3.375 TT 3.375 M: 0.75758 > rtevent: T 3.750 TT 3.750 M: 0.77514 > rtevent: T 4.125 TT 4.125 M: 0.78055 > rtevent: T 4.500 TT 4.500 M: 0.68964 > rtevent: T 4.875 TT 4.875 M: 0.71552 > rtevent: T 5.250 TT 5.250 M: 0.65596 > rtevent: T 5.625 TT 5.625 M: 0.73197 > rtevent: T 6.000 TT 6.000 M: 0.72657 > rtevent: T 8.375 TT 8.375 M: 0.67049 > Score finished in csoundPerform(). > inactive allocs returned to freespace > end of score. overall amps: 0.82665 > overall samples out of range: 0 > 0 errors in performance > Elapsed time at end of performance: real: 8.496s, CPU: 0.166s > closing device > 361 1024 sample blks of 64-bit floats written to dac > > ======================== > Prof. Victor Lazzarini > Maynooth University > Ireland > > > On 13 Mar 2023, at 10:59, joachim heintz <jh@JOACHIMHEINTZ.DE> wrote: > > > > it runs for me, but with zero amp as output. > > > > > > On 13/03/2023 10:38, Victor Lazzarini wrote: > >> and here is an example, attached. > >> ======================== > >> Prof. Victor Lazzarini > >> Maynooth University > >> Ireland > >>> On 12 Mar 2023, at 21:49, Victor Lazzarini <Victor.Lazzarini@mu.ie> wrote: > >>> If you are only using one delay line it is possible to implement a pluck waveguide without need to do sample-by-sample processing. > >>> The delayr-w pair can implement feedback without much difficulty. The simple LP filter can be done with delay1, so that can be inserted without any problems. The fine tuning can be done with allpass filter that can be implemented with filter2 or even biquad. Or alternatively you can just used an interpolated tap to give the > >> correct fractional delay. > >>> I think I posted an example here from one of my classes last time this was discussed. I can look for it next time I'm on the computer. > >>> Prof. Victor Lazzarini > >>> Maynooth University > >>> Ireland > >>>> On 12 Mar 2023, at 17:58, Aaron Krister Johnson <akjmicro@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> WARNINGThis email originated from outside of Maynooth University's Mail System. Do not reply, click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe. > >>>> Hi all, > >>>> I was recently discussing Csound with colleagues, and singing its praises. However I did have to mention an odd corner of concern: for anyone seriously interested in Karplus-Strong style synthesis that didn't feel comfortable building that universe from scratch, I have to advise them to stay clear. Of all the out of box > >> opcodes I have played with, only "pluck" stays in tune. But it is limited in its parameters and doesn't support as many options like defining an excitation signal yourself, etc. To get in-tune plucks that are actually in tune to arbitrary accuracy, I've had to do one of the following: > >>>> 1) resort to ksmps=1 low level implementations (with varied levels of success) > >>>> 2) use a Faust custom-built opcode that csound could use. > >>>> 3) use other software altogether. > >>>> I know that there is a strong drive to preserve legacy opcode behavior, but honestly, I think in reality that doesn't always come to pass, as I have had .csd files I try to use years later on a new version suddenly fail due to API changes. So, I wonder aloud if it is at all possible for the hardcore DSP devs to look at the > >> limitations (tuning-wise) of the pluck-related opcodes and fix those pitch quantization issues...? Or maybe add some next-gen pitch accurate ones to the mix? It should be possible, because the Faust code plugin ended up working beautifully. And yes, I can and will continue to use it in the meantime, but I think newbs to Csound should also benefit from out-of-the-box flexible, and in tune, "*pluck" opcodes... > >>>> Another possibility is that the Faust code I am using can be used as a basis for a new opcode one of the devs could incorporate. 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Date	2023-03-13 23:26
From	Aaron Krister Johnson
Subject	Re: [Csnd] [EXTERNAL] [Csnd] A remaining weak-spot w/re: Csound
	Sounds good, Victor! Aaron Krister Johnson Music, etc.: http://www.untwelve.org https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_utjGYbSizWE0dNyr0Vdmg https://soundcloud.com/aaron-krister-johnson https://soundcloud.com/filtercreed https://aaronkristerjohnson.bandcamp.com/ Code: https://github.com/akjmicro On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 11:56 AM Victor Lazzarini <Victor.Lazzarini@mu.ie> wrote: Also streson is definitely in tune. In fact we don't need code from Faust, that's just a standard waveguide. The delayr/w replaces it just fine, it id just as efficient. Prof. Victor Lazzarini Maynooth University Ireland On 13 Mar 2023, at 17:00, Aaron Krister Johnson <akjmicro@gmail.com> wrote: Yeah, pluck works, as far as tuning, AFAICT...however, having more sculpting options open for the user -- excitation signals, decay, stiffness, etc....in an out-of-box solution, would be ideal. I'll dig up my "superpluck" signal flow after work later and share the orchestra. Some kind of capturing of what that does, and the core code from Faust that keeps things in-tune, would be an ideal solution. I like the idea of deprecation of the older opcodes in favor of a modern robust opcode or opcode-family. Aaron Krister Johnson Music, etc.: http://www.untwelve.org https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_utjGYbSizWE0dNyr0Vdmg https://soundcloud.com/aaron-krister-johnson https://soundcloud.com/filtercreed https://aaronkristerjohnson.bandcamp.com/ Code: https://github.com/akjmicro On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 9:49 AM Victor Lazzarini <Victor.Lazzarini@mu.ie> wrote: I think it is bad that those opcodes are out of tune. Not sure where to go with it. Possible best to deprecate. I could certainly make an opcode to implement this code here, but not sure if it is the best thing. Note that the classic “pluck” opcode is perfectly in tune although it does not have a decay time control. ======================== Prof. Victor Lazzarini Maynooth University Ireland > On 13 Mar 2023, at 16:33, Aaron Krister Johnson <akjmicro@GMAIL.COM> wrote: > > Thanks for this example; will try out. > > FYI, I've tried examples before, and they work fine...I was just more lobbying for an out-of-the-box solution that didn't involve _having_ to "roll-your-own", as it were. > > Another way of asking: can't these solutions become 1st-class opcode citizens in some future release? If it's deemed that "correcting" the existing opcodes might break backwards compatibility, perhaps a new opcode called "superpluck" or something like that? (That's what I affectionately have called my Faust-ian solution locally). I see such an opcode a win overall for existing and future Csound users. > > Cheers, > > Aaron Krister Johnson > Music, etc.: > http://www.untwelve.org > https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_utjGYbSizWE0dNyr0Vdmg > https://soundcloud.com/aaron-krister-johnson > https://soundcloud.com/filtercreed > https://aaronkristerjohnson.bandcamp.com/ > Code: > https://github.com/akjmicro > > > On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 4:35 AM Victor Lazzarini <Victor.Lazzarini@mu.ie> wrote: > Csound 7.0 must have a bug: > > --Csound version 6.18 (double samples) Nov 24 2022 > [commit: a1580f9cdf331c35dceb486f4231871ce0b00266] > libsndfile-1.1.0 > graphics suppressed, ascii substituted > sr = 44100.0, kr = 4410.000, ksmps = 10 > 0dBFS level = 1.0, A4 tuning = 440.0 > orch now loaded > audio buffered in 1024 sample-frame blocks > PortAudio V19.7.0-devel, revision 147dd722548358763a8b649b3e4b41dfffbcfbb6 > 0: dac0 (BlackHole 2ch [Core Audio, 2 in, 2 out]) > 1: dac1 (External Headphones [Core Audio, 0 in, 2 out]) > 2: dac2 (MacBook Pro Speakers [Core Audio, 0 in, 2 out]) > 3: dac3 (Microsoft Teams Audio [Core Audio, 2 in, 2 out]) > 4: dac4 (ZoomAudioDevice [Core Audio, 2 in, 2 out]) > 5: dac5 (Multi-Output Device [Core Audio, 0 in, 2 out]) > 6: dac6 (Aggregate Device [Core Audio, 2 in, 4 out]) > PortAudio: selected output device 'External Headphones' > writing 1024 sample blks of 64-bit floats to dac > SECTION 1: > new alloc for instr 1: > rtevent: T 0.375 TT 0.375 M: 0.46543 > new alloc for instr 1: > rtevent: T 0.750 TT 0.750 M: 0.68172 > new alloc for instr 1: > rtevent: T 1.125 TT 1.125 M: 0.74759 > new alloc for instr 1: > rtevent: T 1.500 TT 1.500 M: 0.78027 > new alloc for instr 1: > rtevent: T 1.875 TT 1.875 M: 0.82665 > new alloc for instr 1: > rtevent: T 2.250 TT 2.250 M: 0.67594 > rtevent: T 2.625 TT 2.625 M: 0.72071 > rtevent: T 3.000 TT 3.000 M: 0.75303 > rtevent: T 3.375 TT 3.375 M: 0.75758 > rtevent: T 3.750 TT 3.750 M: 0.77514 > rtevent: T 4.125 TT 4.125 M: 0.78055 > rtevent: T 4.500 TT 4.500 M: 0.68964 > rtevent: T 4.875 TT 4.875 M: 0.71552 > rtevent: T 5.250 TT 5.250 M: 0.65596 > rtevent: T 5.625 TT 5.625 M: 0.73197 > rtevent: T 6.000 TT 6.000 M: 0.72657 > rtevent: T 8.375 TT 8.375 M: 0.67049 > Score finished in csoundPerform(). > inactive allocs returned to freespace > end of score. overall amps: 0.82665 > overall samples out of range: 0 > 0 errors in performance > Elapsed time at end of performance: real: 8.496s, CPU: 0.166s > closing device > 361 1024 sample blks of 64-bit floats written to dac > > ======================== > Prof. Victor Lazzarini > Maynooth University > Ireland > > > On 13 Mar 2023, at 10:59, joachim heintz <jh@JOACHIMHEINTZ.DE> wrote: > > > > it runs for me, but with zero amp as output. > > > > > > On 13/03/2023 10:38, Victor Lazzarini wrote: > >> and here is an example, attached. > >> ======================== > >> Prof. Victor Lazzarini > >> Maynooth University > >> Ireland > >>> On 12 Mar 2023, at 21:49, Victor Lazzarini <Victor.Lazzarini@mu.ie> wrote: > >>> If you are only using one delay line it is possible to implement a pluck waveguide without need to do sample-by-sample processing. > >>> The delayr-w pair can implement feedback without much difficulty. The simple LP filter can be done with delay1, so that can be inserted without any problems. The fine tuning can be done with allpass filter that can be implemented with filter2 or even biquad. Or alternatively you can just used an interpolated tap to give the > >> correct fractional delay. > >>> I think I posted an example here from one of my classes last time this was discussed. I can look for it next time I'm on the computer. > >>> Prof. Victor Lazzarini > >>> Maynooth University > >>> Ireland > >>>> On 12 Mar 2023, at 17:58, Aaron Krister Johnson <akjmicro@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> WARNINGThis email originated from outside of Maynooth University's Mail System. Do not reply, click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe. > >>>> Hi all, > >>>> I was recently discussing Csound with colleagues, and singing its praises. However I did have to mention an odd corner of concern: for anyone seriously interested in Karplus-Strong style synthesis that didn't feel comfortable building that universe from scratch, I have to advise them to stay clear. Of all the out of box > >> opcodes I have played with, only "pluck" stays in tune. But it is limited in its parameters and doesn't support as many options like defining an excitation signal yourself, etc. To get in-tune plucks that are actually in tune to arbitrary accuracy, I've had to do one of the following: > >>>> 1) resort to ksmps=1 low level implementations (with varied levels of success) > >>>> 2) use a Faust custom-built opcode that csound could use. > >>>> 3) use other software altogether. > >>>> I know that there is a strong drive to preserve legacy opcode behavior, but honestly, I think in reality that doesn't always come to pass, as I have had .csd files I try to use years later on a new version suddenly fail due to API changes. So, I wonder aloud if it is at all possible for the hardcore DSP devs to look at the > >> limitations (tuning-wise) of the pluck-related opcodes and fix those pitch quantization issues...? Or maybe add some next-gen pitch accurate ones to the mix? It should be possible, because the Faust code plugin ended up working beautifully. And yes, I can and will continue to use it in the meantime, but I think newbs to Csound should also benefit from out-of-the-box flexible, and in tune, "*pluck" opcodes... > >>>> Another possibility is that the Faust code I am using can be used as a basis for a new opcode one of the devs could incorporate. 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https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND > Send bugs reports to > https://github.com/csound/csound/issues > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here 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