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[Csnd] Rythmic precision/drifting

Date2018-03-08 16:30
FromLars Indrek Hansson
Subject[Csnd] Rythmic precision/drifting
AttachmentsLoop_problem.csd  

Hi list,

have been working on a patch in which different layers of loops
are playing simultaneously with different meters so that a counting
loop (in which the counting corresponds to the meter) is indexing tables
with trigger values and pitches. The idea is that the different meters
should be controlled with a midi controller in realtime later on.

What bugs me is why the layers start drifting apart only after 15-20 sec.
When they are playing the same meter it seems tight but as soon as one of them
has a different meter it starts drifting. This is especially strange since I
threw in a metronome in order to keep everything in sync, but to no avail.

I tried at first having the different loops in individual instruments starting at the
same time but the layers started drifting then as well.

Does anyone have a clue? There are of course many ways of coding this but apart
from that, why does it drift?


/Lars

Date2018-03-08 16:35
Fromjpff
SubjectRe: [Csnd] Rythmic precision/drifting
Have you set --sample-accurate?  You ay be seeing the k-rate quantisation.

On Thu, 8 Mar 2018, Lars Indrek Hansson wrote:

> 
> Hi list,
> 
> have been working on a patch in which different layers of loops
> are playing simultaneously with different meters so that a counting
> loop (in which the counting corresponds to the meter) is indexing tables
> with trigger values and pitches. The idea is that the different meters
> should be controlled with a midi controller in realtime later on.
> 
> What bugs me is why the layers start drifting apart only after 15-20 sec.
> When they are playing the same meter it seems tight but as soon as one of them
> has a different meter it starts drifting. This is especially strange since I
> threw in a metronome in order to keep everything in sync, but to no avail.
> 
> I tried at first having the different loops in individual instruments starting
> at the
> same time but the layers started drifting then as well.
> 
> Does anyone have a clue? There are of course many ways of coding this but
> apart
> from that, why does it drift?
> 
> 
> /Lars
> 
> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
> be posted here
>

Csound mailing list
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Date2018-03-08 16:50
FromLars Indrek Hansson
Subject[Csnd] SV: [Csnd] Rythmic precision/drifting

I set ksmps to 441 in this case. Thought it wasn´t a big deal

since I used a-rate envelopes for the sound anyway. You might

think it´s because the k-rate? Never experienced

anything like this before.


/Lars


Från: A discussion list for users of Csound <CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE> för jpff <jpff@CODEMIST.CO.UK>
Skickat: den 8 mars 2018 17:35
Till: CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Ämne: Re: [Csnd] Rythmic precision/drifting
 
Have you set --sample-accurate?  You ay be seeing the k-rate quantisation.

On Thu, 8 Mar 2018, Lars Indrek Hansson wrote:

>
> Hi list,
>
> have been working on a patch in which different layers of loops
> are playing simultaneously with different meters so that a counting
> loop (in which the counting corresponds to the meter) is indexing tables
> with trigger values and pitches. The idea is that the different meters
> should be controlled with a midi controller in realtime later on.
>
> What bugs me is why the layers start drifting apart only after 15-20 sec.
> When they are playing the same meter it seems tight but as soon as one of them
> has a different meter it starts drifting. This is especially strange since I
> threw in a metronome in order to keep everything in sync, but to no avail.
>
> I tried at first having the different loops in individual instruments starting
> at the
> same time but the layers started drifting then as well.
>
> Does anyone have a clue? There are of course many ways of coding this but
> apart
> from that, why does it drift?
>
>
> /Lars
>
> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to

> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can

> be posted here
>

Csound mailing list
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Date2018-03-08 16:55
FromRory Walsh
SubjectRe: [Csnd] SV: [Csnd] Rythmic precision/drifting
Set ksmps to 1 and then you'll know if it is an issue with k quantisation.

On 8 March 2018 at 16:50, Lars Indrek Hansson <lars.indrek.hansson@hotmail.com> wrote:

I set ksmps to 441 in this case. Thought it wasn´t a big deal

since I used a-rate envelopes for the sound anyway. You might

think it´s because the k-rate? Never experienced

anything like this before.


/Lars


Från: A discussion list for users of Csound <CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE> för jpff <jpff@CODEMIST.CO.UK>
Skickat: den 8 mars 2018 17:35
Till: CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Ämne: Re: [Csnd] Rythmic precision/drifting
 
Have you set --sample-accurate?  You ay be seeing the k-rate quantisation.

On Thu, 8 Mar 2018, Lars Indrek Hansson wrote:

>
> Hi list,
>
> have been working on a patch in which different layers of loops
> are playing simultaneously with different meters so that a counting
> loop (in which the counting corresponds to the meter) is indexing tables
> with trigger values and pitches. The idea is that the different meters
> should be controlled with a midi controller in realtime later on.
>
> What bugs me is why the layers start drifting apart only after 15-20 sec.
> When they are playing the same meter it seems tight but as soon as one of them
> has a different meter it starts drifting. This is especially strange since I
> threw in a metronome in order to keep everything in sync, but to no avail.
>
> I tried at first having the different loops in individual instruments starting
> at the
> same time but the layers started drifting then as well.
>
> Does anyone have a clue? There are of course many ways of coding this but
> apart
> from that, why does it drift?
>
>
> /Lars
>
> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
csound - Main repository for Csound ... You signed in with another tab or window. Reload to refresh your session.

> be posted here
>

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Date2018-03-08 17:01
FromLars Indrek Hansson
Subject[Csnd] SV: [Csnd] SV: [Csnd] Rythmic precision/drifting

I just did and instead the tempo became

extremely slow.


/Lars



Från: A discussion list for users of Csound <CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE> för Rory Walsh <rorywalsh@EAR.IE>
Skickat: den 8 mars 2018 17:55
Till: CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Ämne: Re: [Csnd] SV: [Csnd] Rythmic precision/drifting
 
Set ksmps to 1 and then you'll know if it is an issue with k quantisation.

On 8 March 2018 at 16:50, Lars Indrek Hansson <lars.indrek.hansson@hotmail.com> wrote:

I set ksmps to 441 in this case. Thought it wasn´t a big deal

since I used a-rate envelopes for the sound anyway. You might

think it´s because the k-rate? Never experienced

anything like this before.


/Lars


Från: A discussion list for users of Csound <CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE> för jpff <jpff@CODEMIST.CO.UK>
Skickat: den 8 mars 2018 17:35
Till: CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Ämne: Re: [Csnd] Rythmic precision/drifting
 
Have you set --sample-accurate?  You ay be seeing the k-rate quantisation.

On Thu, 8 Mar 2018, Lars Indrek Hansson wrote:

>
> Hi list,
>
> have been working on a patch in which different layers of loops
> are playing simultaneously with different meters so that a counting
> loop (in which the counting corresponds to the meter) is indexing tables
> with trigger values and pitches. The idea is that the different meters
> should be controlled with a midi controller in realtime later on.
>
> What bugs me is why the layers start drifting apart only after 15-20 sec.
> When they are playing the same meter it seems tight but as soon as one of them
> has a different meter it starts drifting. This is especially strange since I
> threw in a metronome in order to keep everything in sync, but to no avail.
>
> I tried at first having the different loops in individual instruments starting
> at the
> same time but the layers started drifting then as well.
>
> Does anyone have a clue? There are of course many ways of coding this but
> apart
> from that, why does it drift?
>
>
> /Lars
>
> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
csound - Main repository for Csound ... You signed in with another tab or window. Reload to refresh your session.

> be posted here
>

Csound mailing list
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https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
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Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
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Date2018-03-08 17:02
Fromjpff
SubjectRe: [Csnd] SV: [Csnd] Rythmic precision/drifting
All I meant is that note-events start at k-rate boundaries, so in your 
case and CD sample rate this is 0.01s intervals.  Without seeing your code 
or simplified version I am not sure if this is your problem.  If you set 
--sample-accurate the note events can start at sample-rate.  Same for note 
endings but that is less important in rythme.
==John ff

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Date2018-03-08 17:04
FromLars Indrek Hansson
Subject[Csnd] SV: [Csnd] SV: [Csnd] Rythmic precision/drifting

They start at k-time in this case.


/Lars



Från: A discussion list for users of Csound <CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE> för jpff <jpff@CODEMIST.CO.UK>
Skickat: den 8 mars 2018 18:02
Till: CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Ämne: Re: [Csnd] SV: [Csnd] Rythmic precision/drifting
 
All I meant is that note-events start at k-rate boundaries, so in your
case and CD sample rate this is 0.01s intervals.  Without seeing your code
or simplified version I am not sure if this is your problem.  If you set
--sample-accurate the note events can start at sample-rate.  Same for note
endings but that is less important in rythme.
==John ff

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Date2018-03-08 17:05
Fromjpff
SubjectRe: [Csnd] SV: [Csnd] SV: [Csnd] Rythmic precision/drifting
Which suggests your orchestra is not right...... or it is lack of CPU.  If 
yiou render to disk is it still bad?


On Thu, 8 Mar 2018, Lars Indrek Hansson wrote:

> 
> I just did and instead the tempo became
> 
> extremely slow.
> 
> 
> /Lars
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Från: A discussion list for users of Csound  för
> Rory Walsh 
> Skickat: den 8 mars 2018 17:55
> Till: CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> Ämne: Re: [Csnd] SV: [Csnd] Rythmic precision/drifting  
> Set ksmps to 1 and then you'll know if it is an issue with k quantisation.
> 
> On 8 March 2018 at 16:50, Lars Indrek Hansson
>  wrote:
>
>       I set ksmps to 441 in this case. Thought it wasn´t a big deal
>
>       since I used a-rate envelopes for the sound anyway. You might
>
>       think it´s because the k-rate? Never experienced
>
>       anything like this before.
> 
>
>       /Lars
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________________________________________
>       Från: A discussion list for users of Csound
>        för jpff 
>       Skickat: den 8 mars 2018 17:35
>       Till: CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
>       Ämne: Re: [Csnd] Rythmic precision/drifting  
> Have you set --sample-accurate?  You ay be seeing the k-rate
> quantisation.
> 
> On Thu, 8 Mar 2018, Lars Indrek Hansson wrote:
> 
> >
> > Hi list,
> >
> > have been working on a patch in which different layers of loops
> > are playing simultaneously with different meters so that a counting
> > loop (in which the counting corresponds to the meter) is indexing
> tables
> > with trigger values and pitches. The idea is that the different meters
> > should be controlled with a midi controller in realtime later on.
> >
> > What bugs me is why the layers start drifting apart only after 15-20
> sec.
> > When they are playing the same meter it seems tight but as soon as one
> of them
> > has a different meter it starts drifting. This is especially strange
> since I
> > threw in a metronome in order to keep everything in sync, but to no
> avail.
> >
> > I tried at first having the different loops in individual instruments
> starting
> > at the
> > same time but the layers started drifting then as well.
> >
> > Does anyone have a clue? There are of course many ways of coding this
> but
> > apart
> > from that, why does it drift?
> >
> >
> > /Lars
> >
> > Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> > https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> LISTSERV 16.0 - CSOUND List at LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> listserv.heanet.ie
> CSOUND Home Page CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE: LISTSERV Archives
> 
> > https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and
> features can
> [4031607?s=400&v=4]
> Issues · csound/csound · GitHub
> github.com
> csound - Main repository for Csound ... You signed in with another tab
> or window. Reload to refresh your session.
> 
> > be posted here
> >
> 
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> LISTSERV 16.0 - CSOUND List at LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> listserv.heanet.ie
> CSOUND Home Page CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE: LISTSERV Archives
> 
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> [4031607?s=400&v=4]
> Issues · csound/csound · GitHub
> github.com
> csound - Main repository for Csound ... You signed in with another tab
> or window. Reload to refresh your session.
> 
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features
> can be posted here
> 
> 
> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
> be posted here
> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
> be posted here
>

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Date2018-03-08 17:08
FromLars Indrek Hansson
Subject[Csnd] SV: [Csnd] SV: [Csnd] SV: [Csnd] Rythmic precision/drifting

Haven´t tried but CPU load is not heavy 1-3% perhaps.


/Lars



Från: A discussion list for users of Csound <CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE> för jpff <jpff@CODEMIST.CO.UK>
Skickat: den 8 mars 2018 18:05
Till: CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Ämne: Re: [Csnd] SV: [Csnd] SV: [Csnd] Rythmic precision/drifting
 
Which suggests your orchestra is not right...... or it is lack of CPU.  If
yiou render to disk is it still bad?


On Thu, 8 Mar 2018, Lars Indrek Hansson wrote:

>
> I just did and instead the tempo became
>
> extremely slow.
>
>
> /Lars
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Från: A discussion list for users of Csound <CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE> för
> Rory Walsh <rorywalsh@EAR.IE>
> Skickat: den 8 mars 2018 17:55
> Till: CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> Ämne: Re: [Csnd] SV: [Csnd] Rythmic precision/drifting  
> Set ksmps to 1 and then you'll know if it is an issue with k quantisation.
>
> On 8 March 2018 at 16:50, Lars Indrek Hansson
> <lars.indrek.hansson@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>       I set ksmps to 441 in this case. Thought it wasn´t a big deal
>
>       since I used a-rate envelopes for the sound anyway. You might
>
>       think it´s because the k-rate? Never experienced
>
>       anything like this before.
>
>
>       /Lars
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
>       Från: A discussion list for users of Csound
>       <CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE> för jpff <jpff@CODEMIST.CO.UK>
>       Skickat: den 8 mars 2018 17:35
>       Till: CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
>       Ämne: Re: [Csnd] Rythmic precision/drifting  
> Have you set --sample-accurate?  You ay be seeing the k-rate
> quantisation.
>
> On Thu, 8 Mar 2018, Lars Indrek Hansson wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi list,
> >
> > have been working on a patch in which different layers of loops
> > are playing simultaneously with different meters so that a counting
> > loop (in which the counting corresponds to the meter) is indexing
> tables
> > with trigger values and pitches. The idea is that the different meters
> > should be controlled with a midi controller in realtime later on.
> >
> > What bugs me is why the layers start drifting apart only after 15-20
> sec.
> > When they are playing the same meter it seems tight but as soon as one
> of them
> > has a different meter it starts drifting. This is especially strange
> since I
> > threw in a metronome in order to keep everything in sync, but to no
> avail.
> >
> > I tried at first having the different loops in individual instruments
> starting
> > at the
> > same time but the layers started drifting then as well.
> >
> > Does anyone have a clue? There are of course many ways of coding this
> but
> > apart
> > from that, why does it drift?
> >
> >
> > /Lars
> >
> > Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> > https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to

> LISTSERV 16.0 - CSOUND List at LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> listserv.heanet.ie
> CSOUND Home Page CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE: LISTSERV Archives
>
> > https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and

> features can
> [4031607?s=400&v=4]
> Issues · csound/csound · GitHub
> github.com
> csound - Main repository for Csound ... You signed in with another tab
> or window. Reload to refresh your session.
>
> > be posted here
> >
>
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND

> LISTSERV 16.0 - CSOUND List at LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> listserv.heanet.ie
> CSOUND Home Page CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE: LISTSERV Archives
>
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues

> [4031607?s=400&v=4]
> Issues · csound/csound · GitHub
> github.com
> csound - Main repository for Csound ... You signed in with another tab
> or window. Reload to refresh your session.
>
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to

> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features

> can be posted here
>
>
> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to

> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can

> be posted here
> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
> be posted here
>

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Date2018-03-08 17:59
Fromjoachim heintz
SubjectRe: [Csnd] Rythmic precision/drifting
hi lars -

i would guess that the problem derives from your different reinit 
passes.  but i must say that your code is very hard for me to 
understand.  i am not completely sure that i understand what you want to 
do, but i would definitely go to k-rate, at all avoiding any reinit and 
timout.

if you can express in pseudo-code what you want to achieve, i might be 
able to help, suggesting a different way of writing it.

best -
	joachim



On 08/03/18 17:30, Lars Indrek Hansson wrote:
> Hi list,
>
> have been working on a patch in which different layers of loops
> are playing simultaneously with different meters so that a counting
> loop (in which the counting corresponds to the meter) is indexing tables
> with trigger values and pitches. The idea is that the different meters
> should be controlled with a midi controller in realtime later on.
>
> What bugs me is why the layers start drifting apart only after 15-20 sec.
> When they are playing the same meter it seems tight but as soon as one
> of them
> has a different meter it starts drifting. This is especially strange
> since I
> threw in a metronome in order to keep everything in sync, but to no avail.
>
> I tried at first having the different loops in individual instruments
> starting at the
> same time but the layers started drifting then as well.
>
> Does anyone have a clue? There are of course many ways of coding this
> but apart
> from that, why does it drift?
>
>
> /Lars
>
> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> 
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features
> can be posted here

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Date2018-03-08 18:03
Fromjpff
SubjectRe: [Csnd] Rythmic precision/drifting
Trying to understand your orchestra, but it uses things I have never used 
so I need to do some reading of the manual.  I did notice that ktime2 and 
ktime3 are not used so we can elininate them

==John ff

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Date2018-03-08 18:16
FromMichael Gogins
SubjectRe: [Csnd] SV: [Csnd] Rythmic precision/drifting
You might also drift if you add a sampling increment every tick, rather than multiplying the sampling increment by the number of ticks. The former compounds rounding errors and the latter bounds them.

On Mar 8, 2018 13:50, "Lars Indrek Hansson" <lars.indrek.hansson@hotmail.com> wrote:

I set ksmps to 441 in this case. Thought it wasn´t a big deal

since I used a-rate envelopes for the sound anyway. You might

think it´s because the k-rate? Never experienced

anything like this before.


/Lars


Från: A discussion list for users of Csound <CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE> för jpff <jpff@CODEMIST.CO.UK>
Skickat: den 8 mars 2018 17:35
Till: CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Ämne: Re: [Csnd] Rythmic precision/drifting
 
Have you set --sample-accurate?  You ay be seeing the k-rate quantisation.

On Thu, 8 Mar 2018, Lars Indrek Hansson wrote:

>
> Hi list,
>
> have been working on a patch in which different layers of loops
> are playing simultaneously with different meters so that a counting
> loop (in which the counting corresponds to the meter) is indexing tables
> with trigger values and pitches. The idea is that the different meters
> should be controlled with a midi controller in realtime later on.
>
> What bugs me is why the layers start drifting apart only after 15-20 sec.
> When they are playing the same meter it seems tight but as soon as one of them
> has a different meter it starts drifting. This is especially strange since I
> threw in a metronome in order to keep everything in sync, but to no avail.
>
> I tried at first having the different loops in individual instruments starting
> at the
> same time but the layers started drifting then as well.
>
> Does anyone have a clue? There are of course many ways of coding this but
> apart
> from that, why does it drift?
>
>
> /Lars
>
> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
LISTSERV 16.0 - CSOUND List at LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
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CSOUND Home Page CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE: LISTSERV Archives

> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
Issues · csound/csound · GitHub
github.com
csound - Main repository for Csound ... You signed in with another tab or window. Reload to refresh your session.

> be posted here
>

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Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Date2018-03-08 20:41
FromLars Indrek Hansson
Subject[Csnd] SV: [Csnd] Rythmic precision/drifting

Hi,


yes I thought all the time about going k-rate, but since this

works in every other aspect I continued with it. 

The only problem I see is that it drifts apart rythmically.


What I essentially want is one inner loop that counts the

beats and one outer that resets after the last beat is played.

The beats indexes tables with trigger values and with pitches.

Later on beats will be controlled on the fly by midi, but I haven´t

done that yet.


/Lars



Från: A discussion list for users of Csound <CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE> för joachim heintz <jh@JOACHIMHEINTZ.DE>
Skickat: den 8 mars 2018 18:59
Till: CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Ämne: Re: [Csnd] Rythmic precision/drifting
 
hi lars -

i would guess that the problem derives from your different reinit
passes.  but i must say that your code is very hard for me to
understand.  i am not completely sure that i understand what you want to
do, but i would definitely go to k-rate, at all avoiding any reinit and
timout.

if you can express in pseudo-code what you want to achieve, i might be
able to help, suggesting a different way of writing it.

best -
        joachim



On 08/03/18 17:30, Lars Indrek Hansson wrote:
> Hi list,
>
> have been working on a patch in which different layers of loops
> are playing simultaneously with different meters so that a counting
> loop (in which the counting corresponds to the meter) is indexing tables
> with trigger values and pitches. The idea is that the different meters
> should be controlled with a midi controller in realtime later on.
>
> What bugs me is why the layers start drifting apart only after 15-20 sec.
> When they are playing the same meter it seems tight but as soon as one
> of them
> has a different meter it starts drifting. This is especially strange
> since I
> threw in a metronome in order to keep everything in sync, but to no avail.
>
> I tried at first having the different loops in individual instruments
> starting at the
> same time but the layers started drifting then as well.
>
> Does anyone have a clue? There are of course many ways of coding this
> but apart
> from that, why does it drift?
>
>
> /Lars
>
> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> <mailto:Csound@listserv.heanet.ie>
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to

> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features

> can be posted here

Csound mailing list
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Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues

Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Date2018-03-09 00:05
Fromjoachim heintz
SubjectRe: [Csnd] SV: [Csnd] Rythmic precision/drifting
as far as i get it, you want to go in a fixed tempo through the three 
tables gitrig1-3.  if the index gets a 1 value, you trigger an event. 
and you start from beginning after the eight values have been read.  in 
this case a solution could be:

instr 1

kmetro metro 2
kcount init 0

if (kmetro == 1) then

  ;get table values
  kfreq1 table kcount,  giscale1
  kfreq2 table kcount,  giscale2
  kfreq3 table kcount,  giscale3
  ktrig1 table kcount,  gitrig1
  ktrig2 table kcount,  gitrig2
  ktrig3 table kcount,  gitrig3

  ;trigger sounds if value is 1
  schedkwhen ktrig1, 0, 0, 8, 0, .95, 1, kfreq1
  schedkwhen ktrig2, 0, 0, 8, 0, .75, 1, kfreq2
  schedkwhen ktrig3, 0, 0, 8, 0, .75, 1, kfreq3

  ;increment counter
  kcount = (kcount+1) % 8
  /* same as:
  kcount = kcount+1
  if kcount > 7 then
   kcount = 0
  endif */

endif

endin


	joachim



On 08/03/18 21:41, Lars Indrek Hansson wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
> yes I thought all the time about going k-rate, but since this
>
> works in every other aspect I continued with it.
>
> The only problem I see is that it drifts apart rythmically.
>
>
> What I essentially want is one inner loop that counts the
>
> beats and one outer that resets after the last beat is played.
>
> The beats indexes tables with trigger values and with pitches.
>
> Later on beats will be controlled on the fly by midi, but I haven´t
>
> done that yet.
>
>
> /Lars
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Från:* A discussion list for users of Csound
>  för joachim heintz 
> *Skickat:* den 8 mars 2018 18:59
> *Till:* CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> *Ämne:* Re: [Csnd] Rythmic precision/drifting
>
> hi lars -
>
> i would guess that the problem derives from your different reinit
> passes.  but i must say that your code is very hard for me to
> understand.  i am not completely sure that i understand what you want to
> do, but i would definitely go to k-rate, at all avoiding any reinit and
> timout.
>
> if you can express in pseudo-code what you want to achieve, i might be
> able to help, suggesting a different way of writing it.
>
> best -
>         joachim
>
>
>
> On 08/03/18 17:30, Lars Indrek Hansson wrote:
>> Hi list,
>>
>> have been working on a patch in which different layers of loops
>> are playing simultaneously with different meters so that a counting
>> loop (in which the counting corresponds to the meter) is indexing tables
>> with trigger values and pitches. The idea is that the different meters
>> should be controlled with a midi controller in realtime later on.
>>
>> What bugs me is why the layers start drifting apart only after 15-20 sec.
>> When they are playing the same meter it seems tight but as soon as one
>> of them
>> has a different meter it starts drifting. This is especially strange
>> since I
>> threw in a metronome in order to keep everything in sync, but to no avail.
>>
>> I tried at first having the different loops in individual instruments
>> starting at the
>> same time but the layers started drifting then as well.
>>
>> Does anyone have a clue? There are of course many ways of coding this
>> but apart
>> from that, why does it drift?
>>
>>
>> /Lars
>>
>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> 
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> LISTSERV 16.0 - CSOUND List at LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> 
> listserv.heanet.ie
> CSOUND Home Page CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE: LISTSERV Archives
>
>
>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features
> 
> 	
> Issues · csound/csound · GitHub 
> github.com
> csound - Main repository for Csound ... You signed in with another tab
> or window. Reload to refresh your session.
>
>
>> can be posted here
>
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> LISTSERV 16.0 - CSOUND List at LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> 
> listserv.heanet.ie
> CSOUND Home Page CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE: LISTSERV Archives
>
>
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> 
> 	
> Issues · csound/csound · GitHub 
> github.com
> csound - Main repository for Csound ... You signed in with another tab
> or window. Reload to refresh your session.
>
>
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> 
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features
> can be posted here

Csound mailing list
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Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Date2018-03-09 07:53
FromLars Indrek Hansson
Subject[Csnd] SV: [Csnd] SV: [Csnd] Rythmic precision/drifting

Although you have altered the three different kcount1-3 to

one single kcount for all three layers. The idea was to have

a separate counting increment for each schedwhen so that

they could index the different tables separately. I changed it

to:


kcount1 = (kcount1+1) % 8 (or whatever rythm you might want)
kcount2 = (kcount2+1) % 3
kcount3 = (kcount3+1) % 5

It seems to work fine though.

The reason I used a timout was that I started off without a common
metronome and tempo was defined by the duration of the reinit loop,
but I got this strange drift. Some might say that the drift arises from the
fact that I have several reinit passes in the same instrument, but initially
I had them in different instruments which also resulted in a drift.

Anyway, thanx a lot Joachim!

/Lars


Från: A discussion list for users of Csound <CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE> för joachim heintz <jh@JOACHIMHEINTZ.DE>
Skickat: den 9 mars 2018 01:05
Till: CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Ämne: Re: [Csnd] SV: [Csnd] Rythmic precision/drifting
 
as far as i get it, you want to go in a fixed tempo through the three
tables gitrig1-3.  if the index gets a 1 value, you trigger an event.
and you start from beginning after the eight values have been read.  in
this case a solution could be:

instr 1

kmetro metro 2
kcount init 0

if (kmetro == 1) then

  ;get table values
  kfreq1 table kcount,  giscale1
  kfreq2 table kcount,  giscale2
  kfreq3 table kcount,  giscale3
  ktrig1 table kcount,  gitrig1
  ktrig2 table kcount,  gitrig2
  ktrig3 table kcount,  gitrig3

  ;trigger sounds if value is 1
  schedkwhen ktrig1, 0, 0, 8, 0, .95, 1, kfreq1
  schedkwhen ktrig2, 0, 0, 8, 0, .75, 1, kfreq2
  schedkwhen ktrig3, 0, 0, 8, 0, .75, 1, kfreq3

  ;increment counter
  kcount = (kcount+1) % 8
  /* same as:
  kcount = kcount+1
  if kcount > 7 then
   kcount = 0
  endif */

endif

endin


        joachim



On 08/03/18 21:41, Lars Indrek Hansson wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
> yes I thought all the time about going k-rate, but since this
>
> works in every other aspect I continued with it.
>
> The only problem I see is that it drifts apart rythmically.
>
>
> What I essentially want is one inner loop that counts the
>
> beats and one outer that resets after the last beat is played.
>
> The beats indexes tables with trigger values and with pitches.
>
> Later on beats will be controlled on the fly by midi, but I haven´t
>
> done that yet.
>
>
> /Lars
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Från:* A discussion list for users of Csound
> <CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE> för joachim heintz <jh@JOACHIMHEINTZ.DE>
> *Skickat:* den 8 mars 2018 18:59
> *Till:* CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> *Ämne:* Re: [Csnd] Rythmic precision/drifting
>
> hi lars -
>
> i would guess that the problem derives from your different reinit
> passes.  but i must say that your code is very hard for me to
> understand.  i am not completely sure that i understand what you want to
> do, but i would definitely go to k-rate, at all avoiding any reinit and
> timout.
>
> if you can express in pseudo-code what you want to achieve, i might be
> able to help, suggesting a different way of writing it.
>
> best -
>         joachim
>
>
>
> On 08/03/18 17:30, Lars Indrek Hansson wrote:
>> Hi list,
>>
>> have been working on a patch in which different layers of loops
>> are playing simultaneously with different meters so that a counting
>> loop (in which the counting corresponds to the meter) is indexing tables
>> with trigger values and pitches. The idea is that the different meters
>> should be controlled with a midi controller in realtime later on.
>>
>> What bugs me is why the layers start drifting apart only after 15-20 sec.
>> When they are playing the same meter it seems tight but as soon as one
>> of them
>> has a different meter it starts drifting. This is especially strange
>> since I
>> threw in a metronome in order to keep everything in sync, but to no avail.
>>
>> I tried at first having the different loops in individual instruments
>> starting at the
>> same time but the layers started drifting then as well.
>>
>> Does anyone have a clue? There are of course many ways of coding this
>> but apart
>> from that, why does it drift?
>>
>>
>> /Lars
>>
>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> <mailto:Csound@listserv.heanet.ie>
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to

> LISTSERV 16.0 - CSOUND List at LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> <https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND>

> listserv.heanet.ie
> CSOUND Home Page CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE: LISTSERV Archives
>
>
>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features

> <https://github.com/csound/csound/issues>

>       
> Issues · csound/csound · GitHub <https://github.com/csound/csound/issues>

> github.com
> csound - Main repository for Csound ... You signed in with another tab
> or window. Reload to refresh your session.
>
>
>> can be posted here
>
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND

> LISTSERV 16.0 - CSOUND List at LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> <https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND>

> listserv.heanet.ie
> CSOUND Home Page CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE: LISTSERV Archives
>
>
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues

> <https://github.com/csound/csound/issues>

>       
> Issues · csound/csound · GitHub <https://github.com/csound/csound/issues>

> github.com
> csound - Main repository for Csound ... You signed in with another tab
> or window. Reload to refresh your session.
>
>
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> <mailto:Csound@listserv.heanet.ie>
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to

> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features

> can be posted here

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND

Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues

Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Date2018-03-09 09:03
Fromjoachim heintz
SubjectRe: [Csnd] SV: [Csnd] SV: [Csnd] Rythmic precision/drifting
yes you can easily extend this schema, in many ways.  and if you use 
arrays, the code is more elegant and reflects the essence of what happens:


gkscale1[] fillarray  7.04, 8.01,  8.02,  8.05, 8.08, 9.03, 9.05, 9.09
gkscale2[] fillarray  10.03, 9.01,  9.06,  9.03, 9.04, 9.10, 9.12, 10.00
gkscale3[] fillarray  6.07,  6.04,  7.02,  7.07, 7.02, 6.10, 7.07, 7.05
gktrig1[] fillarray   1, 0, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 0
gktrig2[] fillarray   1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0
gktrig3[] fillarray   1, 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 0, 1


instr 1

kmetro metro 2
kcount init 0

if (kmetro == 1) then

  schedkwhen gktrig1[kcount], 0, 0, 8, 0, .95, 1, gkscale1[kcount]
  schedkwhen gktrig2[kcount], 0, 0, 8, 0, .75, 1, gkscale2[kcount]
  schedkwhen gktrig3[kcount], 0, 0, 8, 0, .75, 1, gkscale3[kcount]

  kcount = (kcount+1) % 8

endif

endin


the usage of timout is a bit tricky because of the reinits.  i think we 
should avoid reinitialization unless it is really necessary.  whenever i 
used timout, it mostly resulted in jungle-code.  maybe others can do 
better, but for your situation the metro and defining what happens if 
the metro ticks, seem to be a better approach, too.

best -
	joachim




On 09/03/18 08:53, Lars Indrek Hansson wrote:
> Although you have altered the three different kcount1-3 to
>
> one single kcount for all three layers. The idea was to have
>
> a separate counting increment for each schedwhen so that
>
> they could index the different tables separately. I changed it
>
> to:
>
>
> kcount1 = (kcount1+1) % 8 (or whatever rythm you might want)
> kcount2 = (kcount2+1) % 3
> kcount3 = (kcount3+1) % 5
>
> It seems to work fine though.
>
> The reason I used a timout was that I started off without a common
> metronome and tempo was defined by the duration of the reinit loop,
> but I got this strange drift. Some might say that the drift arises from the
> fact that I have several reinit passes in the same instrument, but
> initially
> I had them in different instruments which also resulted in a drift.
>
> Anyway, thanx a lot Joachim!
>
> /Lars
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Från:* A discussion list for users of Csound
>  för joachim heintz 
> *Skickat:* den 9 mars 2018 01:05
> *Till:* CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> *Ämne:* Re: [Csnd] SV: [Csnd] Rythmic precision/drifting
>
> as far as i get it, you want to go in a fixed tempo through the three
> tables gitrig1-3.  if the index gets a 1 value, you trigger an event.
> and you start from beginning after the eight values have been read.  in
> this case a solution could be:
>
> instr 1
>
> kmetro metro 2
> kcount init 0
>
> if (kmetro == 1) then
>
>   ;get table values
>   kfreq1 table kcount,  giscale1
>   kfreq2 table kcount,  giscale2
>   kfreq3 table kcount,  giscale3
>   ktrig1 table kcount,  gitrig1
>   ktrig2 table kcount,  gitrig2
>   ktrig3 table kcount,  gitrig3
>
>   ;trigger sounds if value is 1
>   schedkwhen ktrig1, 0, 0, 8, 0, .95, 1, kfreq1
>   schedkwhen ktrig2, 0, 0, 8, 0, .75, 1, kfreq2
>   schedkwhen ktrig3, 0, 0, 8, 0, .75, 1, kfreq3
>
>   ;increment counter
>   kcount = (kcount+1) % 8
>   /* same as:
>   kcount = kcount+1
>   if kcount > 7 then
>    kcount = 0
>   endif */
>
> endif
>
> endin
>
>
>         joachim
>
>
>
> On 08/03/18 21:41, Lars Indrek Hansson wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>> yes I thought all the time about going k-rate, but since this
>>
>> works in every other aspect I continued with it.
>>
>> The only problem I see is that it drifts apart rythmically.
>>
>>
>> What I essentially want is one inner loop that counts the
>>
>> beats and one outer that resets after the last beat is played.
>>
>> The beats indexes tables with trigger values and with pitches.
>>
>> Later on beats will be controlled on the fly by midi, but I haven´t
>>
>> done that yet.
>>
>>
>> /Lars
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *Från:* A discussion list for users of Csound
>>  för joachim heintz 
>> *Skickat:* den 8 mars 2018 18:59
>> *Till:* CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
>> *Ämne:* Re: [Csnd] Rythmic precision/drifting
>>
>> hi lars -
>>
>> i would guess that the problem derives from your different reinit
>> passes.  but i must say that your code is very hard for me to
>> understand.  i am not completely sure that i understand what you want to
>> do, but i would definitely go to k-rate, at all avoiding any reinit and
>> timout.
>>
>> if you can express in pseudo-code what you want to achieve, i might be
>> able to help, suggesting a different way of writing it.
>>
>> best -
>>         joachim
>>
>>
>>
>> On 08/03/18 17:30, Lars Indrek Hansson wrote:
>>> Hi list,
>>>
>>> have been working on a patch in which different layers of loops
>>> are playing simultaneously with different meters so that a counting
>>> loop (in which the counting corresponds to the meter) is indexing tables
>>> with trigger values and pitches. The idea is that the different meters
>>> should be controlled with a midi controller in realtime later on.
>>>
>>> What bugs me is why the layers start drifting apart only after 15-20 sec.
>>> When they are playing the same meter it seems tight but as soon as one
>>> of them
>>> has a different meter it starts drifting. This is especially strange
>>> since I
>>> threw in a metronome in order to keep everything in sync, but to no avail.
>>>
>>> I tried at first having the different loops in individual instruments
>>> starting at the
>>> same time but the layers started drifting then as well.
>>>
>>> Does anyone have a clue? There are of course many ways of coding this
>>> but apart
>>> from that, why does it drift?
>>>
>>>
>>> /Lars
>>>
>>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>> 
>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> LISTSERV 16.0 - CSOUND List at LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> 
> listserv.heanet.ie
> CSOUND Home Page CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE: LISTSERV Archives
>
>
>> LISTSERV 16.0 - CSOUND List at LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
>> 
> LISTSERV 16.0 - CSOUND List at LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> 
> listserv.heanet.ie
> CSOUND Home Page CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE: LISTSERV Archives
>
>
>> listserv.heanet.ie
>> CSOUND Home Page CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE: LISTSERV Archives
>>
>>
>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features
> 
> 	
> Issues · csound/csound · GitHub 
> github.com
> csound - Main repository for Csound ... You signed in with another tab
> or window. Reload to refresh your session.
>
>
>> 
> 
> 	
> Issues · csound/csound · GitHub 
> github.com
> csound - Main repository for Csound ... You signed in with another tab
> or window. Reload to refresh your session.
>
>
>>
>> Issues · csound/csound · GitHub 
> 
> 	
> Issues · csound/csound · GitHub 
> github.com
> csound - Main repository for Csound ... You signed in with another tab
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>
>
>> github.com
>> csound - Main repository for Csound ... You signed in with another tab
>> or window. Reload to refresh your session.
>>
>>
>>> can be posted here
>>
>> Csound mailing list
>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> LISTSERV 16.0 - CSOUND List at LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> 
> listserv.heanet.ie
> CSOUND Home Page CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE: LISTSERV Archives
>
>
>> LISTSERV 16.0 - CSOUND List at LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
>> 
> LISTSERV 16.0 - CSOUND List at LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> 
> listserv.heanet.ie
> CSOUND Home Page CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE: LISTSERV Archives
>
>
>> listserv.heanet.ie
>> CSOUND Home Page CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE: LISTSERV Archives
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to
>>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> 
> 	
> Issues · csound/csound · GitHub 
> github.com
> csound - Main repository for Csound ... You signed in with another tab
> or window. Reload to refresh your session.
>
>
>> 
> 
> 	
> Issues · csound/csound · GitHub 
> github.com
> csound - Main repository for Csound ... You signed in with another tab
> or window. Reload to refresh your session.
>
>
>>
>> Issues · csound/csound · GitHub 
> 
> 	
> Issues · csound/csound · GitHub 
> github.com
> csound - Main repository for Csound ... You signed in with another tab
> or window. Reload to refresh your session.
>
>
>> github.com
>> csound - Main repository for Csound ... You signed in with another tab
>> or window. Reload to refresh your session.
>>
>>
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> 
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> LISTSERV 16.0 - CSOUND List at LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> 
> listserv.heanet.ie
> CSOUND Home Page CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE: LISTSERV Archives
>
>
>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features
> 
> 	
> Issues · csound/csound · GitHub 
> github.com
> csound - Main repository for Csound ... You signed in with another tab
> or window. Reload to refresh your session.
>
>
>> can be posted here
>
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> LISTSERV 16.0 - CSOUND List at LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> 
> listserv.heanet.ie
> CSOUND Home Page CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE: LISTSERV Archives
>
>
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> 
> 	
> Issues · csound/csound · GitHub 
> github.com
> csound - Main repository for Csound ... You signed in with another tab
> or window. Reload to refresh your session.
>
>
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> 
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features
> can be posted here

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here