Hi Michael,

I use a triangular envelope with peaks in the middle, at least on the
note level.  When working with a set of tones, the shape of the group
may not be symmetrical.  On the level of rhythm, Webern does something
similar in using very simple equal note durations but on the level of
phrase the shaping of time can be very complex in that ideas do not
often meet up and vary in length.

steven


On 3/3/06, Michael Mossey <mpm@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:
> Hi Steven,
>
> Yes, I think it is relevant, because composition can be self-similar..
> perhaps I could use the same envelope on notes as I use on phrases.
>
> Do you always have the triangle peak in the middle time-wise, or have you
> ever tried having it peak 2/3 of the way through, or at the Golden ratio,
> or something?
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> <quote who="Steven Yi">
> > Hi Michael,
> >
> > This doesn't quite address the question directly, but I just wanted to
> > note something from my experience with triangular envelopes.  I use
> > linear triangular envelopes as a basis for most of what I do, mostly
> > on the single note level and not at the phrase.  I've found that the
> > duration of notes or the scale of ideas deeply affects the experience
> > of the triangle; if the duration is shorter, the slope of the triangle
> > is steeper, and if the duration is longer, the slope is more gradual,
> > given that the start and peak values are the same.
> >
> > Perhaps obvious, but it was something that affected how I worked with
> > triangular enveloped sounds and has become a very important quality to
> > me.  I did experiment with half-sine's and various other shapes as
> > well but eventually settled on the linear triangular envelope.  I
> > think keeping in mind the slope and that if you're working with
> > something that is duration dependent might help to guide finding the
> > shape that will satisfy your ear.
> >
> > Hope that helps!
> > steven
> >
> >
> >
> > On 3/1/06, Michael Mossey <mpm@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:
> >> This is a question about computer-assisted composition.
> >>
> >> I'm playing with expressive percussion shapes... i.e., beating on a drum
> >> in a regular rhythm, and computing a phrase shape with a beginning and
> >> middle and end. Perhaps starting quiet, getting loud, then quiet again.
> >> Perhaps starting slow tempo, then speeding up, then slowing down.
> >>
> >> For example, consider a soft-loud-soft shape. I programmed the
> >> amplitudes
> >> as a sinusoidal curve moving from trough to trough. (The curve
> >> expressing
> >> the amplitude in db) So how did this sound, subjectively? It wasn't
> >> completely satisfying.. the very rounded top came sounding like the
> >> shape
> >> had gotten a bit static during the middle part.
> >>
> >> Then I programmed a simple straight line upwards to the middle of the
> >> phrase, and a straight line down. (again straight on a logarithmic
> >> scale).
> >> Sounded a little more compelling. Then I modified it to peak such that
> >> the
> >> first half length and second half were in the golden ratio. Pretty nice.
> >>
> >> Still a little oversimplified sounding since the crescendo and sudden
> >> switch to descrescendo were obvious.
> >>
> >> Anyone have ideas for other curves?
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
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