I might also add that Michael's concept of the simplest
musical language, that being one of rhythm only, can itself 
convey some level of thought. Although such a simple language 
might not be able to convey enough thought to be "moving".



Anthony




----- Original Message -----
From: apalomba@austin.rr.com
Date: Monday, February 13, 2006 11:49 am
Subject: Re: [Csnd] Algorithmic composition - the simplest model

> I think Dale brought up a very important point. 
> I think music is very much a language. It is 
> in fact, the encoding of emotive thought. I think 
> a lot contemporary composers in their quest to find new 
> intellectual musical forms tend to ignore this 
> language. And although in doing so, they have 
> discovered and created many interesting pieces 
> of music, they often times lack emotive quality.
> So what is it that makes music that relies more on 
> the melodic language more musical? Can this meaning 
> not be conveyed by form and tambre alone? Is it the 
> grammar of the language that gives us ability to convey
> emotion? 
> 
> 
> 
> Anthony
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: mrhoades@perceptionfactory.com
> Date: Monday, February 13, 2006 10:03 am
> Subject: Re: [Csnd] Algorithmic composition - the simplest model
> 
> > I too am enjoying everyone's thoughts on this. 
> > 
> > For me algorithmic composition begins with having a clear 
> > understanding of
> > what makes music "music" for me. That in itself is the main tool 
> > we have as
> > composers and it is a lifetime in development. Knowledge of our 
> > own voice
> > and how to work with it is key.
> > 
> > When composing I begin with constraints using whatever criteria 
> I have
> > chosen to work with for a given composition. As the computer 
> > begins giving
> > me feedback I listen for a gem, a pearl in the onion so to 
> speak, 
> > for the
> > little spark of life within the sound files I am rendering. When 
> I 
> > find such
> > a section I analyze the code and find what is causing the 
> > desirable output
> > and then begin refining my constrains to bring it out and 
> develop 
> > it. That
> > is how I make (or better allow) the music "come alive". 
> > 
> > I find this process to be very similar to sculpting where you 
> have 
> > a big
> > block of marble and look for the being that is living inside. 
> Then you
> > simply carve away what is keeping it from being seen.
> > 
> > BTW, I have posted an mp3 of a new algorithmic composition on my 
> > web site on
> > the mp3 page. It is the one at the top of the page titled 
> "Release!".> Comments are always welcomed.
> > 
> > Michael
> > www.perceptionfactory.com
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Oeyvind Brandtsegg [mailto:obrandts@online.no]
> > > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 9:03 AM
> > > To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
> > > Subject: Re: [Csnd] Algorithmic composition - the simplest model
> > > 
> > > This is an interesting discussion.
> > > 
> > > I think that a model for music itself, and an algorithm for 
> > telling a
> > > computer how to make music is somehow two sides of the same coin.
> > > 
> > > As for "making it come alive", I think there's a lot to be 
> > gained from
> > > looking at music performance research. We humans do make it 
> come 
> > alive> when we play it, and examinimg what it is we do might 
> give 
> > us more of a
> > > direction towards telling computers how to do it. Of course, a 
> human> > performance on an acoustic instrument is complex beyond 
> modeling 
> > in most
> > > cases. Still, some algorithmic process or "rule set" for 
> > phrasing and
> > > performance might give computer music modeling a touch of 
> "being 
> > alive".> 
> > > I do look for algorithms that imitate some of the behaviour a 
> human> > composer or performer might do. But not limited to what a 
> human 
> > might (be
> > > able to) do. For me, the "human approach" lends som kind of 
> > familiar logic
> > > to the music, so that when something does not sound right, I 
> sit 
> > down and
> > > think about how I would have played this if I was to play it.
> > > I use purely mathematical algorithms for inspiration when I 
> look for
> > > something different/new, but I seldom use them for large parts 
> > of a piece.
> > > But, sometimes one might stumble across an algorithm and 
> think" 
> > hey, this
> > > works exactly the way I think about rhythm", and then it's 
> > easier to put
> > > it into a musical context.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Oeyvind
> > > 
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