Hello David.
I write this privately, as it may be too off topic for the cs list.

Speaking of numpy,
did you manage to install numpy without problems on OSX/PPC ?
I'm not a Mac user, but I tried some days ago to get ImproSculpt
running on a friend's PPC machine, and one of the problems was that
numpy failed to build.
If I remember correctly, we just did
setup.py install (or whatever the readme said)
on the numpy source.
I think the problem was that numpy did not have a target for PPC OSX 10.4.

best
Oeyvind

2007/11/12, David Worrall <vip@avatar.com.au>:
> I guess it's a matter of priorities.
> * With a .dmg, the python install is a very easy process.
> * v2.4 is a marked improvement and in  learning python, and whilst
> backwards compatibility is strong (deprecation is maintained),  it
> will be often the case that the documentation, examples etc on the
> web, including python.org use even non-esoteric features from 2.4
> which would be more confusing to a novice.
> * In using an API, there is a different 'balance' between the
> wrapping environment and the library than there is between multiple
> (insular) compilations. Ditto extending vs embedding.  To the extent
> that an API is a 'break-out' technology, I predict trying to maintain
> the 'broken-to' environ. will be a losing battle. Give up now! :-)
> * I prefer to think of it as providing leadership rather than
> imposing. For example, users who need to do computationally
> challenging processing would soon turn to numpy.
> * Active Python (http://www.activestate.com/Products/activepython/?
> _x=1) is now shipping for v2.5.  I'll be looking at that over xmas.
>
> >> Would that be legal?
> I'm not sure - you could ask the python-mac SIG list (pythonmac-
> sig@python.org). I think this issue has been addressed in the eggs.
> (http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/PythonEggs ).
>
> If you want to continue to support v2.3, why not just have a
> separate .dmg for it?  Perhaps I've missed something.
>
> David
> On 11/11/2007, at 10:18 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>
> > yes 2.4. My problem is that until Apple does not
> > move to 2.4, I have to keep supplying the 2.3
> > module, as I cannot force people to install 2.4.
> > A solution would be to add the MacPython installer
> > to the package. Would that be legal?
>
> > Victor
> >>
> >> Yes, I realised after I'd sent the previous that it wasn't
> >> (solvable).
> >>
> >>   my suggestion to those caught by this is to start to
> >> experiment   with csnd.py in anticipation of  Matt
> >> updatin. I would also recommend upgrading to Python 2.4
> >> (at least)  - v2.3 is   really now in the dark ages.
> >>
> >> David
> >> On 11/11/2007, at 8:16 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
> >>
> >>> Not I don't think it's solvable. This is
> >>> because the python interpreter is Intel and
> >>> the module is PPC. The two don't agree. Rosetta
> >>> won't help here because it works at the process
> >>> level. If you ran a PPC interepreter, then it
> >>> would work (but all the dependencies would have
> >>> to be PPC as well). In fact that's the same
> >>> thing that stops Matt's frontend working with
> >>> Intel CsoundLib.
> >>>
> >>> Victor
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> yes .. Matt .... apologies. it was 5am ish!
> >>>>
> >>>> with PPC version installed, using Apple's python:
> >>>>> drwIntel:~  drw$ /usr/bin/pythonPython 2.3.5 (#1, Jan
> >> 13 >>> 2006,   20:13:11)
> >>>>> [GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 5250)] on
> >> darwin >>> ...
> >>>>>>>> import csnd
> >>>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
> >>>>>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> >>>>>   File
> >>>>
> >> "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/
> >>>>> lib/python2.3/csnd.py", line 4, in ? >>>     import
> >> _csnd >>> ImportError:
> >>>>> dlopen(/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/
> >>>> Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/_csnd.so, 2): no suitable
> >> image >>> found.    Did find:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >> /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/
> >>>> lib/python2.3/_csnd.so: mach-o, but wrong architecture
> >>>>>> if you ignore and simply insist, it doesn't
> >> complain: >>>>>> import csnd
> >>>>>>>> dir()
> >>>>> ['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__',
> >>>>> 'csnd'] >>>
> >>>> but it hasn't imported properly:
> >>>>>>>> dir(csnd)
> >>>>> ['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__']
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Using python2.4:
> >>>>> drwIntel:~ drw$ python
> >>>>> Python 2.4.3 (#1, Mar 30 2006, 11:02:16)
> >>>>> [GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 5250)] on
> >> darwin >> ..
> >>>>>>>> import csnd
> >>>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
> >>>>>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> >>>>>   File
> >>>>>
> >> "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/
> >>>>> python2.4/csnd.py", line 7, in ? ImportError: No
> >> module >>> named _csnd >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> and it complains no matter how many times you try to
> >>>> import. This one might be solvable... perhaps its just
> >> a >> naming convention?
> >>>>
> >>>> David
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 11/11/2007, at 6:07 AM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> you probably mean Matt Ingalls, not Mike Gogins.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What is the problem by the way?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Victor
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I've just re-tested and I can confirm that (on an
> >> intel >>>> OSX) I have   the same problem when I use
> >> Csound PPC. >> Mike >> has indicated in a   recent post on
> >> the CS-Dev >> list that >> he will move macCsound to a
> >> universal >> binary soon. In >> the mean-time, whenever  I
> >> need the >> other   one, I simply >> install it from the
> >> relevant .dmg >> over the top of the >> existing. And do
> >> it again to switch >> back. Not very elegant >> but, hey,
> >>  it works! >>>>
> >>>>>> David
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 11/11/2007, at 1:24 AM, joachim heintz wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> No it's the same result with the -g option. Thanks
> >>>>>>> anyway for the   idea. I think all the problems are
> >>>>>>> raising because I am using the   Csound PPC version
> >> on >>>>> an IntelMac, because formerly I worked such a
> >> lot in >>>> MacCsound that it's hard to change all this
> >> stuff to >> FLTK >>> widgets. You are using the MacIntel
> >> version of >> Csound, >> right? >
> >>>>>>>     joachim
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Am 09.11.2007 um 23:57 schrieb David Worrall:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I can confirm that this eg works for me under
> >>>>>>>> OSX 10.4.10
> >>>>>>>> IDLE 1.1.3
> >>>>>>>> Python 2.4.3.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> But I've found things quickly get stuffed up with
> >> the >>>> graphic   >> output turned on.
> >>>>>>>> Can you try it with the -g command line option?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> This tells me I should include a .csd with the
> >>>> example >> description. >>
> >>>>>>>> David
> >>>>>>>> On 10/11/2007, at 8:53 AM, joachim heintz wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Well, but the task
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> import csnd
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> is ok in MacPython 2.3 (IDLE 1.0). The csnd module
> >>>> is >> found and   >>> can be loaded correctly.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> But when I go to the terminal and try the same in
> >>>>>> /usr/bin/  >>> python2.3 I get:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Python 2.3.5 (#1, Jan 13 2006, 20:13:11)
> >>>>>>>>> [GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 5250)] on
> >>>>>> darwin >>> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or
> >>>>>> "license" for more   >>> information.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> import csnd
> >>>>>>>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
> >>>>>>>>>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> >>>>>>>>>   File
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >> "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/
> >>>>>>>>> lib/python2.3/csnd.py", line 7, in ? >>>>> >>
> >> import _csnd >>>>> ImportError: >>>>
> >> dlopen(/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/
> >>>>>>>>> Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/_csnd.so, 2): no >>
> >> suitable image >>>>> found.  Did find: >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >> /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/
> >>>>>>>>> lib/python2.3/_csnd.so: mach-o, but wrong >>
> >> architecture >>>>>>>> Is this because of the PPC version
> >>>> (being on an >> IntelMac)? Why no   >>> problem with >>
> >> MacPython/ IDLE? >>>>> >>>>>>>     joachim
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Am 09.11.2007 um 22:14 schrieb Oeyvind Brandtsegg:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I think one should not run any halfway complex
> >>>> stuff >> in IDLE. >>>> I do not remember the exact
> >> reason >> why, >> neither the exact >>>> implications, but
> >> it has to >> with >> IDLE itself being written in   >>>>
> >> Python. >>>>>>>> This means we get one Python app running
> >> on top of >>>> another and   >>>> it does
> >>>>>>>>>> sometimes lead to unexpected results and strange
> >>>>>> error messages. >>>> Repeat, do not run stuff in
> >> IDLE. >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> best
> >>>>>>>>>> Oeyvind
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> 2007/11/9, Victor Lazzarini
> >>>>>> <Victor.Lazzarini@nuim.ie>: >>>>> The code is
> >> correct. >> The >> -1 answer means that >>>>> probably the
> >> CSD was not >> found >> or that other >>>>> problem
> >> happened during the >>>> compilation. >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> -1 actually means an error. Also in OSX maybe
> >>>>>>>>>>> the csound messages have been printed to the
> >>>>>>>>>>> console (see it in utilities), not the terminal.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> (On Windows, if I run it from Idle, I also do
> >>>>>>>>>>> not get any Csound messages)
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Victor
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi David -
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I find it very useful. But your example
> >> "Playing >> an >>>>>>>> existing csd   file" doesn't work
> >> on my system >>>> (MacPython >>>>>> 2.3, Csound PPC 5.07).
> >> No   error >>>> messages, but it returns >>>>>> -1:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> import csnd
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cs = csnd.Csound()
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fname =
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >> "/Users/jh/Documents/Csound/PythonInCsound/pythontest.csd"
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cs.Perform(fname) >>>>>> -1 >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> When I first run main.py from Oeyvinds
> >>>>>>>>>>>> PartikkelCloudDesigner (it   stops at a certain
> >>>>>> point, but >>>>>> after loading all the csnd stuff),
> >>>> it's >>  ok (returns 0) >>>>>> and "test.aif" is
> >> written >> in the >> directory of the >>>>>>
> >> PartikkelCloudDesigner. >> So maybe >> there has to be one
> >> or >>>>>> more other >> tasks before >> cs.Perform(fname)?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best -
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>     joachim
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Am 09.11.2007 um 13:33 schrieb David Worrall:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi All,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been finding my way around the python
> >>>>>> wrappers for >>>>>>> csnd. In my   search I've come
> >>>> across >> quite a few people >>>>>>> who have found the
> >>>> process >> just too hard. So, bearing >>>>>>> in mind
> >>>> thathis process >> is   likely to attract new users
> >>>>>>>>>>> ,  I thought it >> would be good to begin   to
> >> put >> a >>>>>> graduated >> introduction together. >
> >>>>>>>>>>> I've just scratched out a >> temporary
> >> beginning, for the >>>>>>>>> moment at >>
> >> http://www.avatar.com.au/sonify/csnd/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A
> >> couple of things suggest themselves. >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Reference material
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -------------------------
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Apart from some simple examples, it would  be
> >>>> good >> to >>>>>>> merge the   output from help(csnd)
> >> with >> the >> info in the >>>>>>> header files,
> >> particularly >> csound.h >>>>>>>>> Has anyone written such
> >> a script? It >> wouldn't be >> too >>>>>>> hard a hack
> >> and then each >> version or compile >> options >>>>>>>
> >> change, a reference >> could   be computed by >> the user
> >>>>>>>> particular to >> their own system. > >>>>>>>>>
> >> Examples >>>>>>>>>>> --------------
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> From what I can see, the only example from the
> >>>>>> examples >>>>>>> directory   in the sources that runs
> >>>> on >> the default OSX >>>>>>> .dmg install of v5.7
> >>>> without >> being modified is >>>>>>> Victor's vu.py (It
> >>>> relies on >> TclSTk being   installed.) >>>>>>> tFair
> >>>> enough - It is a >> "way in" I could put up a hacked
> >>>>>>>>>>  down version (no >> graphics), just to
> >> illustrate >> the use of >>>>>>> >>
> >> CsoundPerformanceThread and >> SetChannel and proceed
> >>>>>>>>>> that way ... > >>>>>>> >> I'm not sure if
> >> people would find >> these type of things >>>>>>>>>
> >> useful.   Perhaps you have >> other ideas. >> Feedback?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ciao, >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> David
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>> _________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> experimental polymedia:    www.avatar.com.au
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sonic Communications Research Group, >>>>>>>>>
> >>>> University of Canberra: >>>>>>>>
> >>>> creative.canberra.edu.au/scrg/ > >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> _________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> experimental polymedia:    www.avatar.com.au
> >>>>>>>> Sonic Communications Research Group,
> >>>>>>>> University of Canberra:
> >>>>>> creative.canberra.edu.au/scrg/ >>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _________________________________________________
> >>>>>> experimental polymedia:    www.avatar.com.au
> >>>>>> Sonic Communications Research Group,
> >>>>>> University of Canberra:
> >>>> creative.canberra.edu.au/scrg/ >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _________________________________________________
> >>>> experimental polymedia:    www.avatar.com.au
> >>>> Sonic Communications Research Group,
> >>>> University of Canberra:
> >> creative.canberra.edu.au/scrg/ >>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Send bugs reports to this list.
> >>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with
> >>> body   "unsubscribe csound"
> >>>
> >>
> >> _________________________________________________
> >> experimental polymedia:    www.avatar.com.au
> >> Sonic Communications Research Group,
> >> University of Canberra:     creative.canberra.edu.au/scrg/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Send bugs reports to this list.
> >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with
> >> body "unsubscribe csound"
> >
> >
> > Send bugs reports to this list.
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> > "unsubscribe csound"
> >
>
> _________________________________________________
> experimental polymedia: www.avatar.com.au
> Sonic Communications Research Group,
> University of Canberra:  creative.canberra.edu.au/scrg/
>
>
>
>
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