I immensely appreciate every bit of work the developers have done for
Csound. The API allows new and exciting possibilties for languages
like Python or several others as well.

I didn't mean to single out Python, but for example with the current
build you can use Csound in a lab setting that doesn't allow
installation by simply setting OPCODEDIR (or its double-precision
equivalent) in the current working Windows Command Interpreter.

As Steven mentioned the installers are an ongoing process and
different for each platform, that's more of a developer related
discussion.


For creating a web-based/online frontend for Csound it might be neat
to use Python (on the server) to output another language that would be
able to use a browser plugin (and not a client side Python based
library) for controlling widgets on screen.

I'll do some more research and report back. Thanks for your suggestions,


David Akbari

On Nov 8, 2007 3:58 PM, Steven Yi <stevenyi@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well, from what I'm seeing, the problem is not that we don't all want
> the same thing, it's just that the fix Michael tried didn't work.
> That's all.  (It was supposed to detect python and install opcodes if
> available and if not offer the option to install python.) The windows
> installer for 5.07 was supposed to fix the the python installation
> problem.  We didn't do a round of beta testing so we didn't find that
> it didn't work until after the release which proved painful (for the
> other dll link problems with msvcr80.dll as well).
>
> We're discussing a bit on the dev list on how to make sure these
> things are sorted out for the next release and also trying to move
> quickly to fix these problems.
>
> steven
>
>
> On Nov 8, 2007 1:35 PM, joachim heintz <jh@joachimheintz.de> wrote:
> > I think this is an important point, David. There should be a balance
> > between the "old" Csound, which has to be as simple as possible (easy
> > to install, simple GUI, good examples), and the "renewing" Csound,
> > which has to integrate recent developments in programming (e.g.
> > Python in Csound or the Python API). Looking for this balance can
> > just  be a never ending story. I am grateful to the developers,
> > because in general I find Csound5 a good solution for this difficult
> > job. But we should try to make some things easier. When I am working
> > with students of composition, they should find Csound as easy to
> > install and to use as PD or so. But usually they are saying the same
> > words as Dr. B. reported: "We tried to install Csound but it's not
> > working." They know a lot in composing and they want to learn Csound,
> > but they don't know Python and .dll. I agree with David: no one
> > should be forced to install Python for using Csound. Can't there be a
> > "core version" which gives messages like: 'You have not installed
> > Python and ... on your system. You can run Csound but not use the
> > Python (Fluid ...) opcodes.'?
> >
> >         joachim
> >
> >
> > Am 08.11.2007 um 00:42 schrieb David Akbari:
> >
> >
> > > Thank you for your suggestions,
> > >
> > > I'd prefer NOT to use Python. I really like the language but it is in
> > > my experience, a major barrier to getting people into the Csound
> > > language. Csound itself is daunting enough without bringing in the
> > > idea of using Python. It is a nice extra and it should remain exactly
> > > that, an *extra*.
> > >
> > > The dependency on Python for Windows based systems needs to be
> > > removed. Users should not be expected to install Python just to use
> > > the program; it's fine the build system is in Python but Python is
> > > more of a language for people really into programming and as such it
> > > shouldn't be necessary to get sound out of Csound.
> > >
> > > My goal in creating this thread is to make Csound more accessible to a
> > > wider range of people - specifically individuals in
> > > speech-language-hearing science who have not and will not ever be
> > > "programmers".
> > >
> > > Csound can be a powerful pedagogical tool but it's a shame that I will
> > > not be able to explain concepts using Csound's elegant encapsulation
> > > of many synthesis and acoustic phenomenon because we are unable to
> > > install Python in the labs.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > David Akbari
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>