I found that by playing with the Pianoteq's resonance, high-frequency cutoff, and Q, I could get a sweeter, more ringing sound, more like the good SoundFonts.

Still not as much like a real piano as the good SoundFonts.

I know from doing this kind of work that with endless tweaking, and circling around different use cases and sets of parameters, you can usually get something quite a bit more usable.

Of course that should apply both to the Pianoteq and to the sampled pianos....

Regards,
Mike


-----Original Message-----
>From: Brian Redfern <brianwredfern@gmail.com>
>Sent: Aug 19, 2008 8:08 PM
>To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
>Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Modeled piano- Pianoteq
>
>The sampled piano on my Oasys kills the pianoteq, but at the same time, i
>can't load scala files into the oasys and I can't do really weird stuff with
>it, the modelling aspect of pianoteq works great for really strange tweaked
>piano sounds.
>
>On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 5:04 PM, Michael Gogins <gogins@pipeline.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for your very interesting post on this very important topic.
>>
>> I tried the experiment you recommend just now, with J.S. Bach BMV 533, an
>> organ piece with a lot of range and a lot of stuff including block triads in
>> it, the Pianoteq, and the sfz freeware Sound Font 2 plugin with the free
>> Piano Steinway Grand Model C (21,738KB).sf2 SoundFont in Cubase 4.
>>
>> In short, I find both pianos quite usable, but I still slightly prefer the
>> Pianoteq.
>>
>> Some additional comments....
>>
>> With the Pianoteq, I can indeed hear the beating you describe. For me, in
>> the passage work and in melodies that I played or that were sequenced, it is
>> not objectionable. Also, I could reduce the beating to almost nothing by
>> increasing the octave stretch, or by using well temperament instead of equal
>> temperament. I suspect that in any given key, you can do something to
>> eliminate all the beating completely.
>>
>> The Pianoteq has a more even range, no recording artifacts (of course), and
>> is in better tune (in spite of the beats).
>>
>> Any given note on the SoundFont definitely sounds more like a piano,
>> because of course it is a recording of one, but the unified effect is more
>> jarring to my ears, because of recording artifacts, uneven range, and so on.
>>
>> But I tried several free SoundFont pianos, and they were each quite
>> different, so I suspect a commercial sampled piano could be better --
>> perhaps quite a bit better.
>>
>> I think for some textures, I would use the SoundFont for its sweeter, more
>> piano-like sound, but for most textures where the behavior of the instrument
>> is important, I would use the Pianoteq.
>>
>> In sum, for me the Pianoteq paints a more unified picture of a piano-like
>> sound, even if the sound is not quite as much like a piano. And, of course,
>> it BEHAVES a lot more like a piano than the SoundFonts do.
>>
>> Finally, I use these instruments in ways that most composers for the piano
>> do not. I use thicker textures, more notes, more rapid notes, more precise
>> timing, and so on. In these contexts, the more tractable behavior of the
>> Pianoteq is more useful -- until it completely runs out of notes! This is
>> something that the SoundFonts just don't do, since they don't eat computer
>> power the way the Pianoteq does.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Mike
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> >From: Michael Mossey <mpm@alumni.caltech.edu>
>> >Sent: Aug 19, 2008 6:15 PM
>> >To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
>> >Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Modeled piano- Pianoteq
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Michael Gogins wrote:
>> >> I have used, and continue to use, the Pianoteq quite frequently. In
>> >> my view it is not the only piano plugin one might want to use, but
>> >> for me at any rate, it is certainly the most useful. The big chords
>> >> are not as convincing as a sampled piano, but everything else is more
>> >> convincing.
>> >
>> >I guess I'm the only one then. I played with it some more---tried
>> >different stretch tuning, etc. The intervals are just harsh and
>> >artificial sounding.. they have very odd-sounding beats. Michael, have
>> >you tried playing a simple triad on Pianoteq vs. a sampled piano? Have
>> >you tried sequencing a Bach choral, in slow motion, so you can savor the
>> >harmonies?
>> >
>> >
>> >I agree that individual notes are fantastic. A single melodic line WOULD
>> >be great, except I can't get past the beats that take place in the
>> >release sound and in the ambiance. A single melodic line is often filled
>> >with major and minor seconds, which are the hardest intervals for me to
>> >accept on the Pianoteq.
>> >
>> >Best,
>> >Mike
>> >
>> >
>> >Send bugs reports to this list.
>> >To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>> csound"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
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