Hi Panos,

I would generalize to say that you could probably do everything you
would need in both Java and Python.  If you're wondering about
differences between the two, I would say for smaller projects, Python
is fantastic, but for larger projects, I would prefer Java.  The
reason for this preference is not so much the language but the tools:
due to the nature of the language, Java has some of the best tools
available for programming.  Integrated Development Environments like
Eclipse or Netbeans can give you tremendous power over your code in
terms of refactoring (i.e. decide to move a method from one class to a
another, you can tell the IDE to do it for you and all references are
automatically updated), have tools like code-completion and
documentation lookup as you code, and many other features.  On the
other hand, it is generally faster to code in a scripting language
like Python and also faster to read code in Python that Java, which
are real factors, but the size of the project and large-scale
comprehension is also important.

That said, I'll say that I use Java to program blue, but when
composing with blue, I use Python to script musical algorithms (I have
embedded a Java version of a Python interpreter within blue).  The
speed at which one can experiment and the small size of musical
algorithms make Python the perfect choice when doing music work for
me, while doing a large application like blue I feel Java is the
better candidate due to the tool support, the speed at which it runs,
type safety, etc.

If you try both, my guess is that you would find working with Python
is much quicker to just get up and going and faster for experimenting
with a small idea, while Java takes much more work to get a project
setup and going.  However, if you're going to work on a long-term
project, those differences quickly fade away and long term maintenance
of the project becomes a more pressing issue.

Another issue besides language issues you might think about is runtime
characteristics. Java runs generally about a 1/2 to 1/3 the speed of C
code, while Python generally clocks in about 1/10 the speed of C.
This is a generalization, and due to things like using native
libraries from Python some things in Python won't seems slow.  It just
depends on where the bulk of your computing is, whether in python code
or in the libraries.  For a lot of cases, both are "fast enough", but
if your algorithms are complex, running either in Java or writing a
native lib in C for python may be solutions.  Besides that are
threading issues.  Python has a Global Interpreter Lock which has
limitations (others more knowledgeable may chime in; there are
discussions on the the GIL in the mailing list archives), but threaded
programming in Java has perhaps a higher learning curve but no
limitations like GIL as most Java runtimes map Java threads to native
threads.

Both are good solutions in that they are cross-platform and I think
both are very strong candidates for long-term value: you're very
likely to be able to run your work years from now.  Both are
disciplined in the evolution and have strong backing by very large
businesses which I believe will help make your work last long into the
future.

For Java examples, there are two articles from the Journal:

http://www.csounds.com/journal/2006summer/SliderDemo.html
http://www.csounds.com/journal/issue5/HPKcomposer.html

I haven't been following the API and if there have been any changes
that would make the two articles out of date, but if there were
changes they would be pretty small and the articles above would still
apply.

Hope that helps!
steven




On Dec 11, 2007 12:21 AM, Panos Katergiathis <csound@protocol.gr> wrote:
> Hello all
>
> For a while, i've been studying java and python, trying to become fluent
> in these languages, having a sole purpose in mind : the construction of
> a system able to produce generative music via midi or csound (and
> learning some oo programming along the way).
>
> So, i feel i am ready to start experimenting and the questions are:
>
> a) i assume it is possible to "drive" csound from java and/or python, in
> real time, yes?
>
> b) if so, are there reasons (apart from personal ones) to choose among
> these languages for such a task?
>
> c) can someone point me to tutorials for this, that is, driving csound
> from python or java? (hint: easy ones are preffered at this point)
>
> d) is anyone else currently involved in such activities, at a level
> similar to mine?
>
> Thank you all in advance
>
> Panos
>
>
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