I have code that allows #include to take a URL in an orchestra and it
seems to work.  My question is, is it a good idea? 

Pro: allows remote udo repositories
     sort-of kool

Con: might open people up to unsafe repositories
     Introduces another dependency (libcurl)


Any thoughts or comments?


==John ffitch

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It sounds very nice indeed.  If it may introduce the possibility for  malicious repos it might be good to have a way to hard disable it for long running unattended systems, like I use sometimes.
?
Oeyvind

22. nov. 2013 16:36 skrev "john ffitch" <jpff@codemist.co.uk> følgende:
>
> I have code that allows #include to take a URL in an orchestra and it
> seems to work.  My question is, is it a good idea?
>
> Pro: allows remote udo repositories
>      sort-of kool
>
> Con: might open people up to unsafe repositories
>      Introduces another dependency (libcurl)
>
>
> Any thoughts or comments?
>
>
> ==John ffitch
>
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hi john -

this seems to open up interesting possibilities. one question:

is this only for #include statements, or could it be more general, like
Sfile strfromurl "http://my/url" (reading the url content as string),
or perhaps directly via readf/readfi:
Sline, iLineNum readfi "http://my/url"
?

that could be very nice for instance for an installation which depends 
on the state of a certain website or something similar.

best -

	joachim


Am 22.11.2013 16:35, schrieb john ffitch:
> I have code that allows #include to take a URL in an orchestra and it
> seems to work.  My question is, is it a good idea?
>
> Pro: allows remote udo repositories
>       sort-of kool
>
> Con: might open people up to unsafe repositories
>       Introduces another dependency (libcurl)
>
>
> Any thoughts or comments?
>
>
> ==John ffitch
>
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Now works in scores and the strfromurl opcode exists (in git)


On Sat, 23 Nov 2013, joachim heintz wrote:

> hi john -
>
> this seems to open up interesting possibilities. one question:
>
> is this only for #include statements, or could it be more general, like
> Sfile strfromurl "http://my/url" (reading the url content as string),
> or perhaps directly via readf/readfi:
> Sline, iLineNum readfi "http://my/url"
> ?
>
> that could be very nice for instance for an installation which depends
> on the state of a certain website or something similar.
>
> best -
>
> 	joachim
>
>
> Am 22.11.2013 16:35, schrieb john ffitch:
>> I have code that allows #include to take a URL in an orchestra and it
>> seems to work.  My question is, is it a good idea?
>>
>> Pro: allows remote udo repositories
>>       sort-of kool
>>
>> Con: might open people up to unsafe repositories
>>       Introduces another dependency (libcurl)
>>
>>
>> Any thoughts or comments?
>>
>>
>> ==John ffitch
>>
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Hi,

My only qualm is that it introduces a new dependency to core csound. It can probably be disabled at compile time, thought, so it might be ok. Like plugin opcodes being available or not...

Cheers,
Andres

Hi All,

I have some reservations about this feature.  I had mentioned this to
John offlist but would like to iterate them here as well.

I'm trying to figure out the use cases here where loading a resource
for inclusion at runtime by Csound would be desirable and preferable
over other systems.  Some drawbacks I see are:

1. increases project fragility: if the included file is not under your
control, your project may break suddenly if someone decides to change
the included file

2. security: the included file may have unsafe code

I think in terms of project management, drawing from other programming
languages, I usually see:

1. languages import/include only from local directories at compile/runtime
2. libraries are managed using some kind of package manager (i.e. gem
for Ruby, pyegg or easy_install for python, hackage for haskell, maven
for Java)
3. package manager would use some meta file that describes the
project's dependencies.  The manager could then auto-download the
dependencies to a local folder where the project is, or download to a
system-wide location.

The only place I can think of as a model for network loading of
libraries is in webpages, but there's some security model usually in
place and really the files are packaged together like a project would
be locally.

I do think having an opcode that reads text from a URL could be
useful. I don't know if that kind of code though is something I'd want
to do in Csound as part of the audio graph rather than in a host
language where I could spawn a thread and do some post-processing,
etc.

I'm a little hesitant about this feature as a whole, but that's
probably because I'm not seeing a compelling use case and do see some
drawbacks that concern me.

steven

On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 2:58 PM,   wrote:
> Assuming I did not make an error (>!) it is set up to require
> HAVE_CURL set.  I have not yet worked out the Cmake incantation to
> check for curl/curl.c and libcurl
>
> At present it has to be set by hand.
>
>
> Quoting Andres Cabrera :
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> My only qualm is that it introduces a new dependency to core csound. It can
>> probably be disabled at compile time, thought, so it might be ok. Like
>> plugin opcodes being available or not...
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Andres
>> On Nov 24, 2013 11:05 AM, "jpff"  wrote:
>>
>>> Now works in scores and the strfromurl opcode exists (in git)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, 23 Nov 2013, joachim heintz wrote:
>>>
>>> > hi john -
>>> >
>>> > this seems to open up interesting possibilities. one question:
>>> >
>>> > is this only for #include statements, or could it be more general, like
>>> > Sfile strfromurl "http://my/url" (reading the url content as string),
>>> > or perhaps directly via readf/readfi:
>>> > Sline, iLineNum readfi "http://my/url"
>>> > ?
>>> >
>>> > that could be very nice for instance for an installation which depends
>>> > on the state of a certain website or something similar.
>>> >
>>> > best -
>>> >
>>> >       joachim
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Am 22.11.2013 16:35, schrieb john ffitch:
>>> >> I have code that allows #include to take a URL in an orchestra and it
>>> >> seems to work.  My question is, is it a good idea?
>>> >>
>>> >> Pro: allows remote udo repositories
>>> >>       sort-of kool
>>> >>
>>> >> Con: might open people up to unsafe repositories
>>> >>       Introduces another dependency (libcurl)
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Any thoughts or comments?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ==John ffitch
>>> >>
>>> >>
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hi steven -

i can understand this from your point of view:

"I do think having an opcode that reads text from a URL could be
useful. I don't know if that kind of code though is something I'd want
to do in Csound as part of the audio graph rather than in a host
language where I could spawn a thread and do some post-processing,
etc."

but what about the large number of csound users which do not use csound 
via a host language?

i see also a problem in the new dependency, hoping that this can be 
solved in a safe and not confusing way (similar to python opcodes or lua 
opcodes). i am happy about this feature because it gives interesting 
possibilities of looking in url content without being dependent on any 
other software.

best -

	joachim


Am 25.11.2013 17:28, schrieb Steven Yi:
> Hi All,
>
> I have some reservations about this feature.  I had mentioned this to
> John offlist but would like to iterate them here as well.
>
> I'm trying to figure out the use cases here where loading a resource
> for inclusion at runtime by Csound would be desirable and preferable
> over other systems.  Some drawbacks I see are:
>
> 1. increases project fragility: if the included file is not under your
> control, your project may break suddenly if someone decides to change
> the included file
>
> 2. security: the included file may have unsafe code
>
> I think in terms of project management, drawing from other programming
> languages, I usually see:
>
> 1. languages import/include only from local directories at compile/runtime
> 2. libraries are managed using some kind of package manager (i.e. gem
> for Ruby, pyegg or easy_install for python, hackage for haskell, maven
> for Java)
> 3. package manager would use some meta file that describes the
> project's dependencies.  The manager could then auto-download the
> dependencies to a local folder where the project is, or download to a
> system-wide location.
>
> The only place I can think of as a model for network loading of
> libraries is in webpages, but there's some security model usually in
> place and really the files are packaged together like a project would
> be locally.
>
> I do think having an opcode that reads text from a URL could be
> useful. I don't know if that kind of code though is something I'd want
> to do in Csound as part of the audio graph rather than in a host
> language where I could spawn a thread and do some post-processing,
> etc.
>
> I'm a little hesitant about this feature as a whole, but that's
> probably because I'm not seeing a compelling use case and do see some
> drawbacks that concern me.
>
> steven
>
> On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 2:58 PM,   wrote:
>> Assuming I did not make an error (>!) it is set up to require
>> HAVE_CURL set.  I have not yet worked out the Cmake incantation to
>> check for curl/curl.c and libcurl
>>
>> At present it has to be set by hand.
>>
>>
>> Quoting Andres Cabrera :
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> My only qualm is that it introduces a new dependency to core csound. It can
>>> probably be disabled at compile time, thought, so it might be ok. Like
>>> plugin opcodes being available or not...
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Andres
>>> On Nov 24, 2013 11:05 AM, "jpff"  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Now works in scores and the strfromurl opcode exists (in git)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, 23 Nov 2013, joachim heintz wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> hi john -
>>>>>
>>>>> this seems to open up interesting possibilities. one question:
>>>>>
>>>>> is this only for #include statements, or could it be more general, like
>>>>> Sfile strfromurl "http://my/url" (reading the url content as string),
>>>>> or perhaps directly via readf/readfi:
>>>>> Sline, iLineNum readfi "http://my/url"
>>>>> ?
>>>>>
>>>>> that could be very nice for instance for an installation which depends
>>>>> on the state of a certain website or something similar.
>>>>>
>>>>> best -
>>>>>
>>>>>        joachim
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 22.11.2013 16:35, schrieb john ffitch:
>>>>>> I have code that allows #include to take a URL in an orchestra and it
>>>>>> seems to work.  My question is, is it a good idea?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pro: allows remote udo repositories
>>>>>>        sort-of kool
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Con: might open people up to unsafe repositories
>>>>>>        Introduces another dependency (libcurl)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any thoughts or comments?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ==John ffitch
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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