I do not think a metric is necessary. Nobody has reported some positive, definite "win" such as a performance that was NOT awkward versus a performance that WAS awkward, as a result of this change. As far as I can see, it is just an idea that "sounds good." I have little patience for such ideas.

Of course, if somebody DOES have such an experience to report, then by all means, report it.

Software, in general, should be as simple as possible, but not simpler than is required TO GET SOME ACTUAL JOB DONE. Absent the actual job, remove the code. All software is constantly in danger, because it is so easy to write the stuff, of becoming too complex, which means, impossible for actual people to maintain.

Regards,
Mike

-----Original Message-----
>From: Steven Yi 
>Sent: Nov 24, 2006 6:06 PM
>To: Developer discussions 
>Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] Deferred Plugin Loading
>
>Well, I think the reason it was put in was to speed up the start time
>of csound by not loading any libraries unless an opcode that is found
>within it is needed.  I don't know how much time it shaves off though
>and have not done any measurements.
>
>The one thing to note is that if the code is left in but we remove the
>opcodes.dir, then it'll run without deferring the loading of plugins.
>If there was an automated solution that could build the opcodes.dir
>automatically, then it might not be any hassle to leave it in.
>
>However, that's adds probably another complication to the build, and
>as Michael said, probably just minor gain for a lot of mental
>overhead.
>
>Should we do a metric of some sort first before removing in case it
>does yield non-negligible speed up, or just go ahead and remove?
>
>steven
>
>On 11/24/06, root  wrote:
>> I was not award that we had this, and it seems to me like a terrible idea
>> -- I almost typed a silly idea.  What is the reason?
>> ==John ff
>>
>>
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For anyone who really needs a faster load, a hardware upgrade seems  
more efficient option for the dev  team.
Development time is too precious: let alone composition time!
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

It ain't broke.

-drw

On 25/11/2006, at 10:54 AM, Michael Gogins wrote:

> I do not think a metric is necessary. Nobody has reported some  
> positive, definite "win" such as a performance that was NOT awkward  
> versus a performance that WAS awkward, as a result of this change.  
> As far as I can see, it is just an idea that "sounds good." I have  
> little patience for such ideas.
>
> Of course, if somebody DOES have such an experience to report, then  
> by all means, report it.
>
> Software, in general, should be as simple as possible, but not  
> simpler than is required TO GET SOME ACTUAL JOB DONE. Absent the  
> actual job, remove the code. All software is constantly in danger,  
> because it is so easy to write the stuff, of becoming too complex,  
> which means, impossible for actual people to maintain.
>
> Regards,
> Mike
---snip ---
_____________________________________
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Sonic Communications Research Group,
University of Canberra:	 www.canberra.edu.au





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I don't mind if you remove it as the implementation doesn't do anything on
OS 9 (all libraries are always loaded) and the time to load them even on my
eight-year-old, 266MHz Mac is less than one second.

I do have a comment though regarding maintenance of the opcode.dir file.  I
would think that it would not be too hard to have Csound generate the file
if it is missing by loading all plugins and keeping track of which opcodes
are added by each one.  Such an approach would also have the benefit of
allowing the user to delete the file to have it regenerated if they add new
plugins to their system.

Of course, deleting the feature is the easiest solution :)

Anthony

Steven Yi wrote on 11/25/06 4:48 PM:

> Alright, just wanted to play devil's advocate to make sure we're all
> in agreeance.  To note, I removed opcodes.dir from my OPCODEDIR and
> didn't find much difference at all in load time (not measured but just
> from observation).
> 
> So, if we're all agreed, shall I go and remove the code?  BTW: The
> code will always be in CVS attic so we can put it back in anytime
> should a need arise.


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I think we should remove this code and functionality.  IF it seems
desirable to go this way later we should design more carefully.  I had
intended alternative models from the start of the csound5 project, but
it never got to highest priority.
==John ffitch

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