The wrappers would depend upon a Python development environment to build, but they would not require any Python installation at all to run.

I did several times explain the advantages of having one binary or, at least, a standard installation that includes the wrappers by default. But I will explain them again.

Having one binary means one less decision for installers to make, and one less configuration step for users to take. It is simpler. Simpler is better.

Having the wrappers in core Csound means having a standard way to call Csound from the languages in question, which is a musical advantage and an advantage to the Csound community.

It is an advantage for Csound to have a clearly defined "core" and to be expected to be able to a set of X things on all platforms. You obviously think so too, but your idea of the "core" does not seem to include language interfaces, and mine does.

I am happy to discuss these issues with you, but that does not mean that I think you have some sort of authority to decide what happens here. 

If what I do doesn't break what you do, you don't have a right to forbid it. And I don't define  "adding redundant functions" or "cluttering" as "breaking what you do". "Breaking" something means something that used to run, no longer runs. 

You broke my code. I broke nothing of yours.

Sincerely,
Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Istvan Varga 
Sent: Oct 21, 2005 1:28 PM
To: csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] wrappers, frontends etc

Michael Gogins wrote:

> I am distinguishing between build time dependencies and run
 > time dependencies. Csound 5 depends on Python to build, so Python
 > can assumed to be present.

Wrong again. Not everyone builds Csound with SCons, even if currently
that is the most commonly used option.

> There is no run time dependency on Python  or any other software.

So, do the wrappers depend on the Python library (and possibly others
in the future as more languages are added), or not ?

And, of course, still not answered:

You somehow always avoid explaining what the major disadvantages of
splitting what you consider the "core" of Csound into two separate
libraries (that can, however, both be included in a binary distribution),
where one contains the wrappers and glue code for external languages are.
Others seem to generally not oppose this modular design.

Or do you think it gets more attention by unconditionally forcing it
on everyone whether they want it or not ?


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Michael Gogins wrote:

> I did several times explain the advantages of having one binary or,
 > at least, a standard installation that includes the wrappers by default.

So, did I ever want to make it impossible to have an installation that
includes the wrappers by default ? No. The entire issue is about how the
wrappers are included, and I prefer the modular approach, and, judging
from other posts, it seems that most people who commented on this topic
agree with me too. You always drift away from the subject, and arrive at
either "we need a standard installation with wrappers included" (which is
not what this argument is about, i.e. the particular way in which they
are included), or "you do not have the right to change other people's code"
followed by implicit or explicit threats that I will be removed from
Csound development. Without ever even attempting to properly answer why my
suggestion is wrong, perhaps you only oppose it so much because the idea is
from me ?


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