Do not specify kr. Specifying sr and ksmps is sufficient and it is clearer what is going on.

Regards,
Mike

-----Original Message-----
>From: Jonathan Murphy 
>Sent: Dec 17, 2006 12:47 AM
>To: Michael Gogins 
>Cc: Developer discussions 
>Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] sensekey
>
>
>It seems that most people prefer 44100. In which case, there is
>another option, which would be to change ksmps to 4 (highest power of
>two which is a divisor of 44100), kr to 11025. In most cases this
>would be an improvement. I'm attaching the test instruments that I
>wrote (they're kind of dumb instruments, the idea is just to chew up
>some cpu cycles). These run fine under linux with default -b & -B. If
>they could be tested on the other platforms that would be great, but I
>can't see that there should be any problem. The first is just ins with
>some fx, the second is similar but requires rtmidi input. 
>
>Anyone foresee any problems with sr = 44100, kr = 11025, ksmps = 4?
>
>J.
>
>Michael Gogins  writes:
>
>> We could default to 48 KHz for real-time audio,  and 44.1 KHz for soundfile rendering, no?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Mike
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>>From: David Akbari 
>>>Sent: Dec 15, 2006 10:52 AM
>>>To: Developer discussions 
>>>Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] sensekey
>>>
>>>I would place my vote for 44.1 kHz if, for no other reason, that the  
>>>Red Book CD-Audio standard defines this as the nominal sampling rate  
>>>for playback.
>>>
>>>One could argue that using 48 kHz would coincide with the DVD medium,  
>>>but as it is, Csound is configured to work also using 16 bits of  
>>>dynamic range, with 8 bit or 24 bit as optional flags. The latter of  
>>>course coinciding with the DVD/48 kHz camp.
>>>
>>>In general it seems that for the moment using Red Book CD audio as a  
>>>preferred delivery media is both cheap and practical for the general  
>>>user of Csound. Obviously if the delivery media is some kind of hard  
>>>disk or bandwidth using the internet, higher sampling rates and bit  
>>>depths for dynamic range could be preferred, but if you consider the  
>>>Red Book CD audio paradigm, you'd have to use some kind of dithering  
>>>and sample rate conversion which could adversely affect your  
>>>synthesized sound.
>>>
>>>This is of course a discussion on the *defaults*, any user with minimal  
>>>Csound experience should be able to grasp the idea of changing the  
>>>sampling rate with the sr opcode or using the -c/-8 or -3 arguments...
>>>
>>>Which brings me to a question: clearly libsndfile supports rendering 32  
>>>bit float audio files but there isn't really a commandline flag that  
>>>makes rendering a file of this type clear. I see only the
>>>
>>>"-f      float sound samples"
>>>
>>>in the output of csound --help. How might one render a 32 bit float  
>>>.wav file for example? What flags would be needed?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-David
>>>
>>>On Dec 15, 2006, at 9:40 AM, Steven Yi wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> I found that it's not just USB, but also at least the built-in Intel
>>>> AC97 sound chip in my laptop (and I would many other laptops).  More
>>>> importantly than the latency though was the coloration of the sound,
>>>> which I found to be a bigger issue.  Perhaps it was just a non-optimal
>>>> upsampling algorithm used somewhere in the signal chain, but it was
>>>> enough to bother me to switch to 48kHz.
>>>>
>>>> The problem with 48kHz though is that it doesn't play well with 44.1
>>>> sampled wave files or files related to that.  It's also a reason why I
>>>> don't use fluidsynth so much because soundfonts tend to be 44.1 and
>>>> they get pictched up when used in a 48k sr project.
>>>>
>>>> For Mac's, it looks like 48k is fine, as-is 96khz:
>>>>
>>>> http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Hardware/Conceptual/ 
>>>> HWTech_Audio/Articles/Audio_implementation.html
>>>>
>>>> So... doesn't seem to be a very clear winner in this to me.
>>>>
>>>> steven
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 12/15/06, Andres Cabrera  wrote:
>>>>> Hi Dr. B,
>>>>>
>>>>> 48k will only be faster if 44.1k is not directly supported by the  
>>>>> audio
>>>>> interface. This is the case with many USB soundcards, which have to  
>>>>> do a
>>>>> sample rate conversion in the driver (software). But this is  
>>>>> particular
>>>>> to Usb interfaces, all other cards will not benefit from this.
>>>>> This makes me think that defaults should work, but not be optimized  
>>>>> for
>>>>> a particular setup, they would probably produce high latency and be
>>>>> inefficient, but I think what's important is that the work without
>>>>> stuttering in all systems (if that's possible... maybe it isn't?)
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Andr??s
>>>>>
>>>>> Dr. Richard Boulanger wrote:
>>>>>> If 48k is faster, that's news to me and I would be happy to choose
>>>>>> the faster rate as a default.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are there issues with 48k on the mac?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -dB
>>>>>> On Dec 14, 2006, at 10:49 AM, Steven Yi wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I tend to use 48000 for realtime and 44100 for wav.  For me, I've
>>>>>>> found that because 48000 is the native resolution on the audio  
>>>>>>> devices
>>>>>>> I use (the laptops builtin sound card and a USB sound card I use),
>>>>>>> I've gotten better performance with that due to no translation.   
>>>>>>> Also,
>>>>>>> more importantly, I've found that the sound of the audio I was  
>>>>>>> working
>>>>>>> with when rendering 44.1 on a 48k device was colored so that it  
>>>>>>> wasn't
>>>>>>> representative of what I heard when rendering 44.1 to CD and playing
>>>>>>> on a stereo.  Rendering at 48k works though for me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just to add a little more fuel to the debate. :P
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> steven
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 12/14/06, Victor Lazzarini  wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I also prefer 44100.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Victor
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Anthony Kozar  writes:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I don't mean to be difficult, but I would personally
>>>>>>>>>> rather have sr = 44100 and ksmps = 16 than this.  (And I
>>>>>>>>>> like the current defaults the most).
>>>>>>>>>> The issue here for me is that the Macintosh world has a
>>>>>>>>>> long history of built-in sound hardware with drivers
>>>>>>>>>> that support ONLY 44100, 22050, and 11025 sampling
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> rates.  I don't know if this is true of machines within
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> the last few years, but it was from the early '90s
>>>>>>>>>> through probably '01 or so.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I wasn't aware of that. Sorry. Myself, I only use linux,
>>>>>>>>> and never use the default sr/ksmps, rarely the default -b
>>>>>>>>> -B. I don't want to be difficult either. My concern over
>>>>>>>>> this only arises because I wrote a couple of example
>>>>>>>>> instruments for rt audio in/out, and when I started to
>>>>>>>>> document them, realised that the defaults wouldn't work.
>>>>>>>>> It seems necessary that there be defaults, but it also
>>>>>>>>> seems necessary that the defaults work. For my personal
>>>>>>>>> use of csound, none of this matters in the slightest, if
>>>>>>>>> the defaults became problematic for me I could just change
>>>>>>>>> them before compiling. It's often said that csound is
>>>>>>>>> difficult to learn, but easy to use once you've grasped
>>>>>>>>> the basics, and I think that that's valid. I'd just like
>>>>>>>>> to make it easier for people to get over that first big
>>>>>>>>> hurdle, so that they can get on with making great music.
>>>>>>>>> I'm not a developer, so all of this is really out of my
>>>>>>>>> hands anyway. The request to find a better compromise in
>>>>>>>>> terms of the default settings is only that, a request,
>>>>>>>>> regardless of how grumpy and uptight I may have sounded at
>>>>>>>>> times. Sure that you'll all appreciate it if I shut up at
>>>>>>>>> this point, so that's that. If there's a change it'll be
>>>>>>>>> posted, otherwise I'll present some information as best I
>>>>>>>>> can regardless.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jonathan.
>>>>>>>>>
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