The problem is that csoundapi~ uses invalue/outvalue with
its callbacks and changing will probably mean that I would have
to change my code, which works...

I guess csound~ also depends on it.

Shall we leave it as is?

Victor
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "matt ingalls" 
To: "Developer discussions" 
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 8:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] software busses


> what i just suggested would not break anything!
>
> On Jan 24, 2008, at 11:50 AM, victor wrote:
>
>> We cannot break backwards compatibility. I don't see
>> how this can be done without breaking anything. I would
>> leave as it is.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Rory Walsh" 
>> To: "Developer discussions" 
>> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 7:47 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] software busses
>>
>>
>>> It would be nice to agree some kind of standard as more people are
>>> using
>>> the API now then ever. Having the system compatible would be a step
>>> in
>>> the right direction IMO, what do others think?
>>>
>>>
>>> matt ingalls wrote:
>>>> well.. i hesitate to join in this discussion because i am still
>>>> bitter
>>>> about this... but since we are going of the history:
>>>>
>>>> i added invalue/outvalue around 2000 or something like that -  it
>>>> was in
>>>> my original API, even before i merged with Michael's.  It looks like
>>>> those functions were finally rolled into canonical in 2002.   ( BTW
>>>> invalue/outvalue can use numbers OR strings for the channel name. )
>>>>
>>>> It is a real shame that the invalue/outvalue system was just not
>>>> added
>>>> to (even after my multiple pleas and offer to add my host's code to
>>>> handle the channel matrixing) and these 2 other "replacement"
>>>> systems
>>>> were added instead.  Istvan's system is almost identical to what i
>>>> do
>>>> with invalue/outvalue, except for the extra feature (confusion?)
>>>> of bus
>>>> direction and channel types.
>>>>
>>>> ===
>>>>
>>>> ANYWAY,  it  bugs me that there are multiple ways to do the same
>>>> thing
>>>> and was recently ready to suggest to retire invalue/outvalue and
>>>> only
>>>> support the other channel bus stuff.
>>>>   if CsoundChannelIOCallback_t does work, then we could probably
>>>> have
>>>> invalue/outvalue call that as well, which would then make
>>>> invalue/outvalue work with Istvan's chn system, and we could call
>>>> invalue/outvalue deprecated (but still be functional for the time
>>>> being).  Host developers would only need to support Istvan's system,
>>>> although i think implementing a CsoundChannelIOCallback_t should be
>>>> strongly advised so that orcs could call the same channel multiple
>>>> times
>>>> in one k-pass.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -m
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 24, 2008, at 1:46 AM, jpff wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The software bus was originally conceived by Richard Dobson way
>>>>> back
>>>>> before the software freeze.  As no one actually submitted code I
>>>>> wrote
>>>>> the numbered bus commands in September 2004 as part of Csound5.
>>>>> Over a
>>>>> year later another developer wrote the named versions without
>>>>> discussions.  Personally I like numbers as they are easier to
>>>>> manipulate, but whatever.
>>>>> ==John ffitch
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
>>>>> Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
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>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> matt ingalls
>>>> development@gvox.com 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
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>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
>
> matt ingalls
> development@gvox.com
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel 


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i guess i wasn't clear.

all i am suggesting is to ADD to invalue/outvalue a hook into Istvan's  
system.
so invalue/outvalue would work the same but also allocate a (k or S)  
channel
in the other system and set (and get?) the value in Istvan's system.

invalue/outvalue would just be labeled as deprecated
so that new hosts use Istvan's system.

(maybe John's system could be treated the same too - or is already? -  
i haven't looked into it)

On Jan 24, 2008, at 12:15 PM, victor wrote:

> The problem is that csoundapi~ uses invalue/outvalue with
> its callbacks and changing will probably mean that I would have
> to change my code, which works...
>
> I guess csound~ also depends on it.
>
> Shall we leave it as is?
>
> Victor
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "matt ingalls" 
> To: "Developer discussions" 
> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 8:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] software busses
>
>
>> what i just suggested would not break anything!
>>
>> On Jan 24, 2008, at 11:50 AM, victor wrote:
>>
>>> We cannot break backwards compatibility. I don't see
>>> how this can be done without breaking anything. I would
>>> leave as it is.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Rory Walsh" 
>>> To: "Developer discussions" 
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 7:47 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] software busses
>>>
>>>
>>>> It would be nice to agree some kind of standard as more people are
>>>> using
>>>> the API now then ever. Having the system compatible would be a step
>>>> in
>>>> the right direction IMO, what do others think?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> matt ingalls wrote:
>>>>> well.. i hesitate to join in this discussion because i am still
>>>>> bitter
>>>>> about this... but since we are going of the history:
>>>>>
>>>>> i added invalue/outvalue around 2000 or something like that -  it
>>>>> was in
>>>>> my original API, even before i merged with Michael's.  It looks  
>>>>> like
>>>>> those functions were finally rolled into canonical in 2002.    
>>>>> ( BTW
>>>>> invalue/outvalue can use numbers OR strings for the channel  
>>>>> name. )
>>>>>
>>>>> It is a real shame that the invalue/outvalue system was just not
>>>>> added
>>>>> to (even after my multiple pleas and offer to add my host's code  
>>>>> to
>>>>> handle the channel matrixing) and these 2 other "replacement"
>>>>> systems
>>>>> were added instead.  Istvan's system is almost identical to what i
>>>>> do
>>>>> with invalue/outvalue, except for the extra feature (confusion?)
>>>>> of bus
>>>>> direction and channel types.
>>>>>
>>>>> ===
>>>>>
>>>>> ANYWAY,  it  bugs me that there are multiple ways to do the same
>>>>> thing
>>>>> and was recently ready to suggest to retire invalue/outvalue and
>>>>> only
>>>>> support the other channel bus stuff.
>>>>>  if CsoundChannelIOCallback_t does work, then we could probably
>>>>> have
>>>>> invalue/outvalue call that as well, which would then make
>>>>> invalue/outvalue work with Istvan's chn system, and we could call
>>>>> invalue/outvalue deprecated (but still be functional for the time
>>>>> being).  Host developers would only need to support Istvan's  
>>>>> system,
>>>>> although i think implementing a CsoundChannelIOCallback_t should  
>>>>> be
>>>>> strongly advised so that orcs could call the same channel multiple
>>>>> times
>>>>> in one k-pass.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -m
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 24, 2008, at 1:46 AM, jpff wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The software bus was originally conceived by Richard Dobson way
>>>>>> back
>>>>>> before the software freeze.  As no one actually submitted code I
>>>>>> wrote
>>>>>> the numbered bus commands in September 2004 as part of Csound5.
>>>>>> Over a
>>>>>> year later another developer wrote the named versions without
>>>>>> discussions.  Personally I like numbers as they are easier to
>>>>>> manipulate, but whatever.
>>>>>> ==John ffitch
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
>>>>>> Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
>>>>>> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> matt ingalls
>>>>> development@gvox.com 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
>>>>> Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
>>>>> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
>>>> Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
>>>> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>> Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
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>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>
>>
>> matt ingalls
>> development@gvox.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
>> Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
>> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/
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>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>

matt ingalls
development@gvox.com




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But I see a strong point in invalue/outvalue in that it doesn't actually
use allocated software bus; the channel name is just an ID and could
mean anything. Also it uses callbacks instead of keeping the value on a
bus that is reached through a pointer (as in chnset/chnget).

If you want to deprecate anything, I'd vote for keeping invalue/outvalue
and chnget/chnset and throw away the other systems.

matt ingalls wrote:
> i guess i wasn't clear.
> 
> all i am suggesting is to ADD to invalue/outvalue a hook into Istvan's  
> system.
> so invalue/outvalue would work the same but also allocate a (k or S)  
> channel
> in the other system and set (and get?) the value in Istvan's system.
> 
> invalue/outvalue would just be labeled as deprecated
> so that new hosts use Istvan's system.
> 
> (maybe John's system could be treated the same too - or is already? -  
> i haven't looked into it)
> 
> On Jan 24, 2008, at 12:15 PM, victor wrote:
> 
>> The problem is that csoundapi~ uses invalue/outvalue with
>> its callbacks and changing will probably mean that I would have
>> to change my code, which works...
>>
>> I guess csound~ also depends on it.
>>
>> Shall we leave it as is?
>>
>> Victor
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "matt ingalls" 
>> To: "Developer discussions" 
>> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 8:08 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] software busses
>>
>>
>>> what i just suggested would not break anything!
>>>
>>> On Jan 24, 2008, at 11:50 AM, victor wrote:
>>>
>>>> We cannot break backwards compatibility. I don't see
>>>> how this can be done without breaking anything. I would
>>>> leave as it is.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Rory Walsh" 
>>>> To: "Developer discussions" 
>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 7:47 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] software busses
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> It would be nice to agree some kind of standard as more people are
>>>>> using
>>>>> the API now then ever. Having the system compatible would be a step
>>>>> in
>>>>> the right direction IMO, what do others think?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> matt ingalls wrote:
>>>>>> well.. i hesitate to join in this discussion because i am still
>>>>>> bitter
>>>>>> about this... but since we are going of the history:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> i added invalue/outvalue around 2000 or something like that -  it
>>>>>> was in
>>>>>> my original API, even before i merged with Michael's.  It looks  
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> those functions were finally rolled into canonical in 2002.    
>>>>>> ( BTW
>>>>>> invalue/outvalue can use numbers OR strings for the channel  
>>>>>> name. )
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is a real shame that the invalue/outvalue system was just not
>>>>>> added
>>>>>> to (even after my multiple pleas and offer to add my host's code  
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> handle the channel matrixing) and these 2 other "replacement"
>>>>>> systems
>>>>>> were added instead.  Istvan's system is almost identical to what i
>>>>>> do
>>>>>> with invalue/outvalue, except for the extra feature (confusion?)
>>>>>> of bus
>>>>>> direction and channel types.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ANYWAY,  it  bugs me that there are multiple ways to do the same
>>>>>> thing
>>>>>> and was recently ready to suggest to retire invalue/outvalue and
>>>>>> only
>>>>>> support the other channel bus stuff.
>>>>>>  if CsoundChannelIOCallback_t does work, then we could probably
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> invalue/outvalue call that as well, which would then make
>>>>>> invalue/outvalue work with Istvan's chn system, and we could call
>>>>>> invalue/outvalue deprecated (but still be functional for the time
>>>>>> being).  Host developers would only need to support Istvan's  
>>>>>> system,
>>>>>> although i think implementing a CsoundChannelIOCallback_t should  
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> strongly advised so that orcs could call the same channel multiple
>>>>>> times
>>>>>> in one k-pass.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -m
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 24, 2008, at 1:46 AM, jpff wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The software bus was originally conceived by Richard Dobson way
>>>>>>> back
>>>>>>> before the software freeze.  As no one actually submitted code I
>>>>>>> wrote
>>>>>>> the numbered bus commands in September 2004 as part of Csound5.
>>>>>>> Over a
>>>>>>> year later another developer wrote the named versions without
>>>>>>> discussions.  Personally I like numbers as they are easier to
>>>>>>> manipulate, but whatever.
>>>>>>> ==John ffitch
-- 
/Jonatan         [ http://kymatica.com ]

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