csound --help

lists all options on the command-line.

latency is basically determined by the hardware buffer
-B in samples. But each IO system is slightly different.
For instance, ASIO has its own control panel, which
ultimately determines latency, so csound is not fully
responsible for the overall latency.

On Linux, what you set in Csound is what you get. On
OSX, with the CoreAudio module, you can increase the
latency by having more buffers (-+buffnos) than the basic 2.

Victor
>
> Art,
>
> As always, thanks for you thorough and rigorous testing.
>
> I agree that:
>
> We absolutely could use a thorough explanation of -b and
> -B and also   some tips on how to relate them to k-rate
> and calculate the latency (a nice little formula or a
> table with some solutions)
>
> Also....
>
> when you type the csound command from the command line....
> It would be great to list ALL the -+ and -- flags not just
> some of them.
>
> I often use this technique as a reminder (when I have
> forgotten a   commandline option) and
> not ALL the flags show up in the list.
>
> I would love Csound to display all the commandline options
> - or maybe   like the -z flag, maybe there could be a flag
> that would list all commandline options?
>
> Dr. B.
>
> On Dec 8, 2006, at 5:55 AM, Art Hunkins wrote:
>
> > I finally discovered what was causing my sensekey
> > "zipper" noise:   bad buffer
> > size (-b).
> >
> > Recently I've been working with -b128 and -B8192, since
> > latency was no issue, and I want to avoid underruns
> (breakup) at all cost. >
> > It turns out that a low value for -b causes zipper noise
> > with   sensekey. The
> > attached file represents a simple test anyone can try.
> > Real time, it generates a sine wave, while sensekey sits
> > there (always "on") just "listening" and doing nothing.
> > If you press a key with -b set too low, there's the
> "zipper". With -b higher, no zipper. >
> > For me (on WinME), it takes -b1024 to get absolutely no
> > stutter. -  b512 gets
> > an occasional glitch, -b256 is pretty bad, and -b128 is
> > terrible.   (Values
> > for -B seem not to matter here.)
> >
> > It might well be worth an alert in the sensekey doc to
> > the effect that sensekey is especially sensitive to the
> > value of -b. Setting -b   higher can
> > avoid zipper noise.
> >
> > As an aside, I was surprised at this; it seems
> > counterintuitive to   me. If
> > anyone has an explanation, I'd love to hear it.
> >
> > This also reminds me that it would be very nice to have
> > - in the documentation - a *thorough presentation* (in
> > terms the average   person might
> > understand) of -b and -B - especially focussing on the
> > various ill   effects
> > (in real time) of setting them too high or low, or of an
> > improper relationship between the two values. Looking
> > back over an extensive   period
> > of work in real time Csound, I can't think of another
> > issue that   has caused
> > me equal frustration and grief. (Obviously it hasn't
> stopped yet.) >
> > Art Hunkins
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Andres Cabrera" 
> > To: "Art Hunkins" ; "Developer
> > discussions" 
> > Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 10:03 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] sensekey
> >
> >
> > Hi Art,
> > Can you try to use the keyboard with diffamator? Do you
> > get   stuttering?
> >
> > What I think could be happening is that the operating
> > system does key-repeat, and you are generating many
> events on a single keypress... >
> > Cheers,
> > Andrés
> >
> > Art Hunkins wrote:
> >> I've been experimenting further with sensekey (in
> WinME) from the >> commandline. My goal is to trigger
> samples with keypresses. >>
> >> The basic mechanism is working fine and as I expect,
> except for one >> exasperating (and perhaps fatal)
> problem: any time I strike a key,   >> even
> > for
> >> the shortest possible duration, any audio currently
> sounding stutters >> ("zipper noise") for a full second.
> (This includes the beginning   >> of the
> >> just-triggered sample.)
> >>
> >> The stuttering occurs even with keypresses that don't
> trigger   >> samples, and
> >> indeed when I truncate code to check for a single key
> as trigger (the >> stutter is of the same, one-second
> duration). >>
> >> The same .csd using midi input as trigger (midiin doing
> the input >> processing) works flawlessly.
> >>
> >> My tentative conclusion is that sensekey, as it
> responds to ASCII   >> keyboard
> >> strokes, is doing a lot of processing - so much so that
> is causes   >> audio to
> >> "zipper." The effect is the same as in Csound4 when
> using FLTK   >> widgets;
> > the
> >> mouse moving across the screen caused "zipper noise" on
> my vintage   >> PC.
> >> However, it's been a *long* time (I can't recall when)
> since I've >> encountered this phenomenon on my
> current-issue machines. >>
> >> Is there anything to be done? (I'd attach a .csd, but
> I'd have to   >> send
> > along
> >> a substantial sample as well. I don't think the problem
> is code I've >> written, though perhaps it's code I
> > *haven't* written - a lack of awareness
> >> of some important factor.)
> >>
> >> Thanks for any insight. I'd *really* like to be able to
> ASCII-trigger >> samples with sensekey. As Victor says,
> "just a laptop and go." >>
> >> Art Hunkins
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Victor Lazzarini" 
> >> To: "Art Hunkins" ; "Developer
> discussions" >> 
> >> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 11:59 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] sensekey
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> yesterday I played with some mappings and I thought it
> was quite >>> interesting. I did some button-accordion
> mappings that created >>> a computer squeeze-box.  This
> would in fact help the mobility >>> of works, just a
> laptop and go! >>>
> >>> Victor
> >>>
> >>> At 16:35 01/12/2006, you wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> FWIW:
> >>>>
> >>>> Neither Winsound, nor CsoundGUI, nor Lettuce allow
> sensekey to   >>>> respond
> > to
> >>>> ASCII input.
> >>>>
> >>>> If Rory *did* opt to add that capability to Lettuce,
> it would be >>>>
> >> something
> >>
> >>>> these other frontends couldn't (currently) do.
> >>>>
> >>>> I wonder how many realtime users out there are
> interested in   >>>> being able
> >>>>
> >> to
> >>
> >>>> use sensekey (i.e., ASCII keyboard input) in Windows,
> and   >>>> without FLTK -
> >>>>
> >> but
> >>
> >>>> within a front end such as Lettuce? (Perhaps I'm the
> only one?) >>>>
> >>>> Art Hunkins
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "Victor Lazzarini" 
> >>>> To: "Art Hunkins" ; "Developer
> discussions" >>>> 
> >>>> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 11:12 AM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] sensekey
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> No problem really. As for Lettuce, I reckon Rory will
> >>>> add that very soon.
> >>>>
> >>>> Victor
> >>>>
> >>>> At 16:09 01/12/2006, you wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Thanks, Victor, for stating the matter succinctly.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Actually, I *thought* that's what I had said.
> Apparently, long   >>>>> years in
> >>>>> academia and a low level of technical expertise have
> resulted   >>>>> in my
> >>>>>
> >>>> clouding
> >>>>
> >>>>> the issue one more time. Sorry about that.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I appreciate you developers bearing with me.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Art Hunkins
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> From: "Victor Lazzarini" 
> >>>>> To: "Art Hunkins" ; "Developer
> discussions" >>>>> 
> >>>>> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 10:15 AM
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] sensekey
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> But it does work on Windows, with/without FLTK. It
> doesn't work   >>>>> with
> >>>>> Lettuce, which
> >>>>> is a different thing.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Victor
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> ---------  >>>> -----
> > -
> >>>> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> >>>> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get
> the chance   >>>> to share
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> >>
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> > page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Csound-devel mailing list
> >>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>>>
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
> >>>> >>> Victor Lazzarini
> >>> Music Technology Laboratory
> >>> Music Department
> >>> National University of Ireland, Maynooth
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> ----------  >>> -----
> >>> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> >>> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get
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> >>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>>
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
> >>> >>
> >>
> >>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
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> >>
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
> >> >>
> >
> >
> >
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Thanks VIctor for this info.  I will try --help !!!

Also, some of this info should be added to Andres' new manpage on  
latency.

Andres?

-dB

On Dec 10, 2006, at 4:44 AM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:

> csound --help
>
> lists all options on the command-line.
>
> latency is basically determined by the hardware buffer
> -B in samples. But each IO system is slightly different.
> For instance, ASIO has its own control panel, which
> ultimately determines latency, so csound is not fully
> responsible for the overall latency.
>
> On Linux, what you set in Csound is what you get. On
> OSX, with the CoreAudio module, you can increase the
> latency by having more buffers (-+buffnos) than the basic 2.
>
> Victor
>>
>> Art,
>>
>> As always, thanks for you thorough and rigorous testing.
>>
>> I agree that:
>>
>> We absolutely could use a thorough explanation of -b and
>> -B and also   some tips on how to relate them to k-rate
>> and calculate the latency (a nice little formula or a
>> table with some solutions)
>>
>> Also....
>>
>> when you type the csound command from the command line....
>> It would be great to list ALL the -+ and -- flags not just
>> some of them.
>>
>> I often use this technique as a reminder (when I have
>> forgotten a   commandline option) and
>> not ALL the flags show up in the list.
>>
>> I would love Csound to display all the commandline options
>> - or maybe   like the -z flag, maybe there could be a flag
>> that would list all commandline options?
>>
>> Dr. B.
>>
>> On Dec 8, 2006, at 5:55 AM, Art Hunkins wrote:
>>
>>> I finally discovered what was causing my sensekey
>>> "zipper" noise:   bad buffer
>>> size (-b).
>>>
>>> Recently I've been working with -b128 and -B8192, since
>>> latency was no issue, and I want to avoid underruns
>> (breakup) at all cost. >
>>> It turns out that a low value for -b causes zipper noise
>>> with   sensekey. The
>>> attached file represents a simple test anyone can try.
>>> Real time, it generates a sine wave, while sensekey sits
>>> there (always "on") just "listening" and doing nothing.
>>> If you press a key with -b set too low, there's the
>> "zipper". With -b higher, no zipper. >
>>> For me (on WinME), it takes -b1024 to get absolutely no
>>> stutter. -  b512 gets
>>> an occasional glitch, -b256 is pretty bad, and -b128 is
>>> terrible.   (Values
>>> for -B seem not to matter here.)
>>>
>>> It might well be worth an alert in the sensekey doc to
>>> the effect that sensekey is especially sensitive to the
>>> value of -b. Setting -b   higher can
>>> avoid zipper noise.
>>>
>>> As an aside, I was surprised at this; it seems
>>> counterintuitive to   me. If
>>> anyone has an explanation, I'd love to hear it.
>>>
>>> This also reminds me that it would be very nice to have
>>> - in the documentation - a *thorough presentation* (in
>>> terms the average   person might
>>> understand) of -b and -B - especially focussing on the
>>> various ill   effects
>>> (in real time) of setting them too high or low, or of an
>>> improper relationship between the two values. Looking
>>> back over an extensive   period
>>> of work in real time Csound, I can't think of another
>>> issue that   has caused
>>> me equal frustration and grief. (Obviously it hasn't
>> stopped yet.) >
>>> Art Hunkins
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Andres Cabrera" 
>>> To: "Art Hunkins" ; "Developer
>>> discussions" 
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 10:03 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] sensekey
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Art,
>>> Can you try to use the keyboard with diffamator? Do you
>>> get   stuttering?
>>>
>>> What I think could be happening is that the operating
>>> system does key-repeat, and you are generating many
>> events on a single keypress... >
>>> Cheers,
>>> Andrés
>>>
>>> Art Hunkins wrote:
>>>> I've been experimenting further with sensekey (in
>> WinME) from the >> commandline. My goal is to trigger
>> samples with keypresses. >>
>>>> The basic mechanism is working fine and as I expect,
>> except for one >> exasperating (and perhaps fatal)
>> problem: any time I strike a key,   >> even
>>> for
>>>> the shortest possible duration, any audio currently
>> sounding stutters >> ("zipper noise") for a full second.
>> (This includes the beginning   >> of the
>>>> just-triggered sample.)
>>>>
>>>> The stuttering occurs even with keypresses that don't
>> trigger   >> samples, and
>>>> indeed when I truncate code to check for a single key
>> as trigger (the >> stutter is of the same, one-second
>> duration). >>
>>>> The same .csd using midi input as trigger (midiin doing
>> the input >> processing) works flawlessly.
>>>>
>>>> My tentative conclusion is that sensekey, as it
>> responds to ASCII   >> keyboard
>>>> strokes, is doing a lot of processing - so much so that
>> is causes   >> audio to
>>>> "zipper." The effect is the same as in Csound4 when
>> using FLTK   >> widgets;
>>> the
>>>> mouse moving across the screen caused "zipper noise" on
>> my vintage   >> PC.
>>>> However, it's been a *long* time (I can't recall when)
>> since I've >> encountered this phenomenon on my
>> current-issue machines. >>
>>>> Is there anything to be done? (I'd attach a .csd, but
>> I'd have to   >> send
>>> along
>>>> a substantial sample as well. I don't think the problem
>> is code I've >> written, though perhaps it's code I
>>> *haven't* written - a lack of awareness
>>>> of some important factor.)
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for any insight. I'd *really* like to be able to
>> ASCII-trigger >> samples with sensekey. As Victor says,
>> "just a laptop and go." >>
>>>> Art Hunkins
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Victor Lazzarini" 
>>>> To: "Art Hunkins" ; "Developer
>> discussions" >> 
>>>> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 11:59 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] sensekey
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> yesterday I played with some mappings and I thought it
>> was quite >>> interesting. I did some button-accordion
>> mappings that created >>> a computer squeeze-box.  This
>> would in fact help the mobility >>> of works, just a
>> laptop and go! >>>
>>>>> Victor
>>>>>
>>>>> At 16:35 01/12/2006, you wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> FWIW:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Neither Winsound, nor CsoundGUI, nor Lettuce allow
>> sensekey to   >>>> respond
>>> to
>>>>>> ASCII input.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If Rory *did* opt to add that capability to Lettuce,
>> it would be >>>>
>>>> something
>>>>
>>>>>> these other frontends couldn't (currently) do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wonder how many realtime users out there are
>> interested in   >>>> being able
>>>>>>
>>>> to
>>>>
>>>>>> use sensekey (i.e., ASCII keyboard input) in Windows,
>> and   >>>> without FLTK -
>>>>>>
>>>> but
>>>>
>>>>>> within a front end such as Lettuce? (Perhaps I'm the
>> only one?) >>>>
>>>>>> Art Hunkins
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Victor Lazzarini" 
>>>>>> To: "Art Hunkins" ; "Developer
>> discussions" >>>> 
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 11:12 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] sensekey
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No problem really. As for Lettuce, I reckon Rory will
>>>>>> add that very soon.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Victor
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At 16:09 01/12/2006, you wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks, Victor, for stating the matter succinctly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Actually, I *thought* that's what I had said.
>> Apparently, long   >>>>> years in
>>>>>>> academia and a low level of technical expertise have
>> resulted   >>>>> in my
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> clouding
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the issue one more time. Sorry about that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I appreciate you developers bearing with me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Art Hunkins
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Victor Lazzarini" 
>>>>>>> To: "Art Hunkins" ; "Developer
>> discussions" >>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 10:15 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] sensekey
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But it does work on Windows, with/without FLTK. It
>> doesn't work   >>>>> with
>>>>>>> Lettuce, which
>>>>>>> is a different thing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Victor
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> ---------  >>>> -----
>>> -
>>>>>> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
>>>>>> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get
>> the chance   >>>> to share
>>>>>>
>>>> your
>>>>
>>>>>> opinions on IT & business topics through brief
>> surveys - and   >>>> earn cash
>>>>>>
>>> http://www.techsay.com/default.php?
>>> page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>>
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>>>> Victor Lazzarini
>>>>> Music Technology Laboratory
>>>>> Music Department
>>>>> National University of Ireland, Maynooth
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> ----------  >>> -----
>>>>> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
>>>>> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get
>> the chance to   >>> share
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys
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>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
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>>>
>>>
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