Hi all,

I'd like some intial feedback about a new unified widget spec for
Csound. I'd initially base my spec on blue, trying to change as little
as possible to make it generic. I'll implement this in QuteCsound,
which will enable translation from MacCsound format to the new format.
I'm thinking this format needs to be xml to make it easily extensible,
and each widget will have a unique identifier which will enable a
preset section to store "snapshots" which will not be affected by the
creation or removal or widgets.
What do YOU (as in you all) need or feel should be included in a widget spec?

Steven, do you have any docs about the format you are using, or can
you point me to the sources where this can be found in blue?


Thanks,
Andrés

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bWill you take note oif the coding in Cabage?

This is, fter all, the model that was always intended


> Hi all,
>
> I'd like some intial feedback about a new unified widget spec for
> Csound. I'd initially base my spec on blue, trying to change as little
> as possible to make it generic. I'll implement this in QuteCsound,
> which will enable translation from MacCsound format to the new format.
> I'm thinking this format needs to be xml to make it easily extensible,
> and each widget will have a unique identifier which will enable a
> preset section to store "snapshots" which will not be affected by the
> creation or removal or widgets.
> What do YOU (as in you all) need or feel should be included in a widget
> spec?
>
> Steven, do you have any docs about the format you are using, or can
> you point me to the sources where this can be found in blue?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Andrés
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
> 30-Day
> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus
> on
> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
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> Csound-devel mailing list
> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>
>
>



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Hi Andres,

Just a quick note as I'm away on vacation, but blue does not have a
specific format so to speak, but it does save and load the object from
XML.  Conceptually it's a bit different too as the interface for
instruments and soundObjects are encompassed within the larger context
of the project, while something like Cabbage, MacCsound, QuteCsound,
and Cecilia have really one level of interface and code separation.
This may make it not exactly a 1:1 for other systems, but blue could
be made to import/export individual instruments to a common format I
think.

As for the general system, blue needs an update itself for preset
storage, as right now they are storing preset values with the
objectName of the widget.  Object names are unique per widget within
an instrument, but it is possible for a widget's objectName to be
changed such that an invalid set of values get mapped to the wrong
widget.  This needs a change to assign a unique ID for all widgets and
to use that generated unique ID which would never change per object.

I would look at the BSBObject abstract class in blue's source, as well
as the widgets that implement that:

http://bluemusic.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/bluemusic/blue/trunk/blue-core/src/blue/orchestra/blueSynthBuilder/

I'll be off and on internet the next few days and will then be setting
up our new apartment (we're moving across the country, so things will
be a bit off for the next week as well).

Thanks,
steven

On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 8:43 AM, Andres Cabrera wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'd like some intial feedback about a new unified widget spec for
> Csound. I'd initially base my spec on blue, trying to change as little
> as possible to make it generic. I'll implement this in QuteCsound,
> which will enable translation from MacCsound format to the new format.
> I'm thinking this format needs to be xml to make it easily extensible,
> and each widget will have a unique identifier which will enable a
> preset section to store "snapshots" which will not be affected by the
> creation or removal or widgets.
> What do YOU (as in you all) need or feel should be included in a widget spec?
>
> Steven, do you have any docs about the format you are using, or can
> you point me to the sources where this can be found in blue?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Andrés
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
> _______________________________________________
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> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>

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Personally I prefer an XML based format since it's easier to expand
and parse. But would like to hear counter arguments.

Cheers,
Andrés

On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 10:51 AM,  wrote:
> bWill you take note oif the coding in Cabage?
>
> This is, fter all, the model that was always intended
>
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'd like some intial feedback about a new unified widget spec for
>> Csound. I'd initially base my spec on blue, trying to change as little
>> as possible to make it generic. I'll implement this in QuteCsound,
>> which will enable translation from MacCsound format to the new format.
>> I'm thinking this format needs to be xml to make it easily extensible,
>> and each widget will have a unique identifier which will enable a
>> preset section to store "snapshots" which will not be affected by the
>> creation or removal or widgets.
>> What do YOU (as in you all) need or feel should be included in a widget
>> spec?
>>
>> Steven, do you have any docs about the format you are using, or can
>> you point me to the sources where this can be found in blue?
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Andrés
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
>> 30-Day
>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus
>> on
>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>



-- 


Andrés

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Thanks Steven,

I'll dig into this. It would be great if we could get some
compatibility between QuteCsound and blue, maybe even through
BlueShare.

Cheers,
Andrés

On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Steven Yi wrote:
> Hi Andres,
>
> Just a quick note as I'm away on vacation, but blue does not have a
> specific format so to speak, but it does save and load the object from
> XML.  Conceptually it's a bit different too as the interface for
> instruments and soundObjects are encompassed within the larger context
> of the project, while something like Cabbage, MacCsound, QuteCsound,
> and Cecilia have really one level of interface and code separation.
> This may make it not exactly a 1:1 for other systems, but blue could
> be made to import/export individual instruments to a common format I
> think.
>
> As for the general system, blue needs an update itself for preset
> storage, as right now they are storing preset values with the
> objectName of the widget.  Object names are unique per widget within
> an instrument, but it is possible for a widget's objectName to be
> changed such that an invalid set of values get mapped to the wrong
> widget.  This needs a change to assign a unique ID for all widgets and
> to use that generated unique ID which would never change per object.
>
> I would look at the BSBObject abstract class in blue's source, as well
> as the widgets that implement that:
>
> http://bluemusic.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/bluemusic/blue/trunk/blue-core/src/blue/orchestra/blueSynthBuilder/
>
> I'll be off and on internet the next few days and will then be setting
> up our new apartment (we're moving across the country, so things will
> be a bit off for the next week as well).
>
> Thanks,
> steven
>
> On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 8:43 AM, Andres Cabrera wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'd like some intial feedback about a new unified widget spec for
>> Csound. I'd initially base my spec on blue, trying to change as little
>> as possible to make it generic. I'll implement this in QuteCsound,
>> which will enable translation from MacCsound format to the new format.
>> I'm thinking this format needs to be xml to make it easily extensible,
>> and each widget will have a unique identifier which will enable a
>> preset section to store "snapshots" which will not be affected by the
>> creation or removal or widgets.
>> What do YOU (as in you all) need or feel should be included in a widget spec?
>>
>> Steven, do you have any docs about the format you are using, or can
>> you point me to the sources where this can be found in blue?
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Andrés
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
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> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>



-- 


Andrés

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Hi Andres,

I think I would have to add a possibility for top-level project-wide
UI to blue to get a real 1:1 with QuteCsound.  I think it'd be
possible for blue to read QuteCsound projects then, but it might not
be possible to go the other way due to all of the other features in
blue that do not exist in QuteCsound (score timeline, automations,
mixer, etc.).  This may be alright though and could offer some
interesting community building opportunities, and blueShare could be
modified to accept QuteCsound projects.

steven

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Andres Cabrera wrote:
> Thanks Steven,
>
> I'll dig into this. It would be great if we could get some
> compatibility between QuteCsound and blue, maybe even through
> BlueShare.
>
> Cheers,
> Andrés
>
> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Steven Yi wrote:
>> Hi Andres,
>>
>> Just a quick note as I'm away on vacation, but blue does not have a
>> specific format so to speak, but it does save and load the object from
>> XML.  Conceptually it's a bit different too as the interface for
>> instruments and soundObjects are encompassed within the larger context
>> of the project, while something like Cabbage, MacCsound, QuteCsound,
>> and Cecilia have really one level of interface and code separation.
>> This may make it not exactly a 1:1 for other systems, but blue could
>> be made to import/export individual instruments to a common format I
>> think.
>>
>> As for the general system, blue needs an update itself for preset
>> storage, as right now they are storing preset values with the
>> objectName of the widget.  Object names are unique per widget within
>> an instrument, but it is possible for a widget's objectName to be
>> changed such that an invalid set of values get mapped to the wrong
>> widget.  This needs a change to assign a unique ID for all widgets and
>> to use that generated unique ID which would never change per object.
>>
>> I would look at the BSBObject abstract class in blue's source, as well
>> as the widgets that implement that:
>>
>> http://bluemusic.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/bluemusic/blue/trunk/blue-core/src/blue/orchestra/blueSynthBuilder/
>>
>> I'll be off and on internet the next few days and will then be setting
>> up our new apartment (we're moving across the country, so things will
>> be a bit off for the next week as well).
>>
>> Thanks,
>> steven
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 8:43 AM, Andres Cabrera wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I'd like some intial feedback about a new unified widget spec for
>>> Csound. I'd initially base my spec on blue, trying to change as little
>>> as possible to make it generic. I'll implement this in QuteCsound,
>>> which will enable translation from MacCsound format to the new format.
>>> I'm thinking this format needs to be xml to make it easily extensible,
>>> and each widget will have a unique identifier which will enable a
>>> preset section to store "snapshots" which will not be affected by the
>>> creation or removal or widgets.
>>> What do YOU (as in you all) need or feel should be included in a widget spec?
>>>
>>> Steven, do you have any docs about the format you are using, or can
>>> you point me to the sources where this can be found in blue?
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Andrés
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>
>>
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>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
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>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> Andrés
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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For me the major draw back with xml is that it's a pain to edit by
hand. I know that most frontends offer a drag and drop system but I
still like the idea of being able to easily edit widgets properties
manually rather than through a GUI.

Rory.


2009/8/13 Steven Yi :
> Hi Andres,
>
> I think I would have to add a possibility for top-level project-wide
> UI to blue to get a real 1:1 with QuteCsound.  I think it'd be
> possible for blue to read QuteCsound projects then, but it might not
> be possible to go the other way due to all of the other features in
> blue that do not exist in QuteCsound (score timeline, automations,
> mixer, etc.).  This may be alright though and could offer some
> interesting community building opportunities, and blueShare could be
> modified to accept QuteCsound projects.
>
> steven
>
> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Andres Cabrera wrote:
>> Thanks Steven,
>>
>> I'll dig into this. It would be great if we could get some
>> compatibility between QuteCsound and blue, maybe even through
>> BlueShare.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Andrés
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Steven Yi wrote:
>>> Hi Andres,
>>>
>>> Just a quick note as I'm away on vacation, but blue does not have a
>>> specific format so to speak, but it does save and load the object from
>>> XML.  Conceptually it's a bit different too as the interface for
>>> instruments and soundObjects are encompassed within the larger context
>>> of the project, while something like Cabbage, MacCsound, QuteCsound,
>>> and Cecilia have really one level of interface and code separation.
>>> This may make it not exactly a 1:1 for other systems, but blue could
>>> be made to import/export individual instruments to a common format I
>>> think.
>>>
>>> As for the general system, blue needs an update itself for preset
>>> storage, as right now they are storing preset values with the
>>> objectName of the widget.  Object names are unique per widget within
>>> an instrument, but it is possible for a widget's objectName to be
>>> changed such that an invalid set of values get mapped to the wrong
>>> widget.  This needs a change to assign a unique ID for all widgets and
>>> to use that generated unique ID which would never change per object.
>>>
>>> I would look at the BSBObject abstract class in blue's source, as well
>>> as the widgets that implement that:
>>>
>>> http://bluemusic.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/bluemusic/blue/trunk/blue-core/src/blue/orchestra/blueSynthBuilder/
>>>
>>> I'll be off and on internet the next few days and will then be setting
>>> up our new apartment (we're moving across the country, so things will
>>> be a bit off for the next week as well).
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> steven
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 8:43 AM, Andres Cabrera wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I'd like some intial feedback about a new unified widget spec for
>>>> Csound. I'd initially base my spec on blue, trying to change as little
>>>> as possible to make it generic. I'll implement this in QuteCsound,
>>>> which will enable translation from MacCsound format to the new format.
>>>> I'm thinking this format needs to be xml to make it easily extensible,
>>>> and each widget will have a unique identifier which will enable a
>>>> preset section to store "snapshots" which will not be affected by the
>>>> creation or removal or widgets.
>>>> What do YOU (as in you all) need or feel should be included in a widget spec?
>>>>
>>>> Steven, do you have any docs about the format you are using, or can
>>>> you point me to the sources where this can be found in blue?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Andrés
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
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>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> Andrés
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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Hi Steven,

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 9:54 PM, Steven Yi wrote:
> Hi Andres,
>
> I think I would have to add a possibility for top-level project-wide
> UI to blue to get a real 1:1 with QuteCsound.  I think it'd be
> possible for blue to read QuteCsound projects then, but it might not
> be possible to go the other way due to all of the other features in
> blue that do not exist in QuteCsound (score timeline, automations,
> mixer, etc.).  This may be alright though and could offer some
> interesting community building opportunities, and blueShare could be
> modified to accept QuteCsound projects.
>

I'm thinking that since QuteCsound offers a subset of features of
blue, particularly with regards to score data, what makes sense is
that instruments can be prototyped in QuteCsound, for later usage in
blue, or as you say, viceversa, blue exporting instruments for usage
in QuteCsound. I think we should have this in mind, to make sure the
format chosen can do this easily.
Thinking further about blueShare, I'd really love to be able to use it
as a collaboration platform between QuteCsound and blue. In practical
terms I think it would simply be a csd repository, which QuteCsound
can load and blue can import (I haven't used blue in a while, but I
think it can import csds into an existing project?).  Or maybe for
blueShare, one would have to "export" a csd from QuteCsound which
enforces certain conventions (e.g. use certain instrument or f-table
names or numbers).

Also thinking practically, widgets in QuteCsound are designed mostly
for realtime usage since they use the API's channels and busses. Blue
can do this, but it can also do it in a different way if I remember
correctly, passing global varibles to the instruments. The
compatibility with QuteCsound would be limited to the first case only,
or do you think it's simple to do it for the other case as well.?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Cheers,
Andrés


> steven
>
> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Andres Cabrera wrote:
>> Thanks Steven,
>>
>> I'll dig into this. It would be great if we could get some
>> compatibility between QuteCsound and blue, maybe even through
>> BlueShare.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Andrés
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Steven Yi wrote:
>>> Hi Andres,
>>>
>>> Just a quick note as I'm away on vacation, but blue does not have a
>>> specific format so to speak, but it does save and load the object from
>>> XML.  Conceptually it's a bit different too as the interface for
>>> instruments and soundObjects are encompassed within the larger context
>>> of the project, while something like Cabbage, MacCsound, QuteCsound,
>>> and Cecilia have really one level of interface and code separation.
>>> This may make it not exactly a 1:1 for other systems, but blue could
>>> be made to import/export individual instruments to a common format I
>>> think.
>>>
>>> As for the general system, blue needs an update itself for preset
>>> storage, as right now they are storing preset values with the
>>> objectName of the widget.  Object names are unique per widget within
>>> an instrument, but it is possible for a widget's objectName to be
>>> changed such that an invalid set of values get mapped to the wrong
>>> widget.  This needs a change to assign a unique ID for all widgets and
>>> to use that generated unique ID which would never change per object.
>>>
>>> I would look at the BSBObject abstract class in blue's source, as well
>>> as the widgets that implement that:
>>>
>>> http://bluemusic.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/bluemusic/blue/trunk/blue-core/src/blue/orchestra/blueSynthBuilder/
>>>
>>> I'll be off and on internet the next few days and will then be setting
>>> up our new apartment (we're moving across the country, so things will
>>> be a bit off for the next week as well).
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> steven
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 8:43 AM, Andres Cabrera wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I'd like some intial feedback about a new unified widget spec for
>>>> Csound. I'd initially base my spec on blue, trying to change as little
>>>> as possible to make it generic. I'll implement this in QuteCsound,
>>>> which will enable translation from MacCsound format to the new format.
>>>> I'm thinking this format needs to be xml to make it easily extensible,
>>>> and each widget will have a unique identifier which will enable a
>>>> preset section to store "snapshots" which will not be affected by the
>>>> creation or removal or widgets.
>>>> What do YOU (as in you all) need or feel should be included in a widget spec?
>>>>
>>>> Steven, do you have any docs about the format you are using, or can
>>>> you point me to the sources where this can be found in blue?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Andrés
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
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>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> Andrés
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
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>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
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-- 


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Maybe I've been working on the csound manual for far too long, but I
find XML editable by hand... =)

Cheers,
Andrés

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 6:03 AM, Rory Walsh wrote:
> For me the major draw back with xml is that it's a pain to edit by
> hand. I know that most frontends offer a drag and drop system but I
> still like the idea of being able to easily edit widgets properties
> manually rather than through a GUI.
>
> Rory.
>
>
> 2009/8/13 Steven Yi :
>> Hi Andres,
>>
>> I think I would have to add a possibility for top-level project-wide
>> UI to blue to get a real 1:1 with QuteCsound.  I think it'd be
>> possible for blue to read QuteCsound projects then, but it might not
>> be possible to go the other way due to all of the other features in
>> blue that do not exist in QuteCsound (score timeline, automations,
>> mixer, etc.).  This may be alright though and could offer some
>> interesting community building opportunities, and blueShare could be
>> modified to accept QuteCsound projects.
>>
>> steven
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Andres Cabrera wrote:
>>> Thanks Steven,
>>>
>>> I'll dig into this. It would be great if we could get some
>>> compatibility between QuteCsound and blue, maybe even through
>>> BlueShare.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Andrés
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Steven Yi wrote:
>>>> Hi Andres,
>>>>
>>>> Just a quick note as I'm away on vacation, but blue does not have a
>>>> specific format so to speak, but it does save and load the object from
>>>> XML.  Conceptually it's a bit different too as the interface for
>>>> instruments and soundObjects are encompassed within the larger context
>>>> of the project, while something like Cabbage, MacCsound, QuteCsound,
>>>> and Cecilia have really one level of interface and code separation.
>>>> This may make it not exactly a 1:1 for other systems, but blue could
>>>> be made to import/export individual instruments to a common format I
>>>> think.
>>>>
>>>> As for the general system, blue needs an update itself for preset
>>>> storage, as right now they are storing preset values with the
>>>> objectName of the widget.  Object names are unique per widget within
>>>> an instrument, but it is possible for a widget's objectName to be
>>>> changed such that an invalid set of values get mapped to the wrong
>>>> widget.  This needs a change to assign a unique ID for all widgets and
>>>> to use that generated unique ID which would never change per object.
>>>>
>>>> I would look at the BSBObject abstract class in blue's source, as well
>>>> as the widgets that implement that:
>>>>
>>>> http://bluemusic.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/bluemusic/blue/trunk/blue-core/src/blue/orchestra/blueSynthBuilder/
>>>>
>>>> I'll be off and on internet the next few days and will then be setting
>>>> up our new apartment (we're moving across the country, so things will
>>>> be a bit off for the next week as well).
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> steven
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 8:43 AM, Andres Cabrera wrote:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd like some intial feedback about a new unified widget spec for
>>>>> Csound. I'd initially base my spec on blue, trying to change as little
>>>>> as possible to make it generic. I'll implement this in QuteCsound,
>>>>> which will enable translation from MacCsound format to the new format.
>>>>> I'm thinking this format needs to be xml to make it easily extensible,
>>>>> and each widget will have a unique identifier which will enable a
>>>>> preset section to store "snapshots" which will not be affected by the
>>>>> creation or removal or widgets.
>>>>> What do YOU (as in you all) need or feel should be included in a widget spec?
>>>>>
>>>>> Steven, do you have any docs about the format you are using, or can
>>>>> you point me to the sources where this can be found in blue?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Andrés
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> Andrés
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
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>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
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-- 


Andrés

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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I forgot about that! I think my cabbage syntax could easily be
converted to xml but I'd still like to offer the shorthand syntax too.
One thing I like most about how the different front-ends are organised
is that it's relatively easy to transfer instruments from one frontend
to another as the widget syntax is not Csound specific and doesn'tr
reside within the orc section. Potentially all frontends could share
instruments.

Rory.


2009/8/13 Andres Cabrera :
> Maybe I've been working on the csound manual for far too long, but I
> find XML editable by hand... =)
>
> Cheers,
> Andrés
>
> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 6:03 AM, Rory Walsh wrote:
>> For me the major draw back with xml is that it's a pain to edit by
>> hand. I know that most frontends offer a drag and drop system but I
>> still like the idea of being able to easily edit widgets properties
>> manually rather than through a GUI.
>>
>> Rory.
>>
>>
>> 2009/8/13 Steven Yi :
>>> Hi Andres,
>>>
>>> I think I would have to add a possibility for top-level project-wide
>>> UI to blue to get a real 1:1 with QuteCsound.  I think it'd be
>>> possible for blue to read QuteCsound projects then, but it might not
>>> be possible to go the other way due to all of the other features in
>>> blue that do not exist in QuteCsound (score timeline, automations,
>>> mixer, etc.).  This may be alright though and could offer some
>>> interesting community building opportunities, and blueShare could be
>>> modified to accept QuteCsound projects.
>>>
>>> steven
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Andres Cabrera wrote:
>>>> Thanks Steven,
>>>>
>>>> I'll dig into this. It would be great if we could get some
>>>> compatibility between QuteCsound and blue, maybe even through
>>>> BlueShare.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Andrés
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Steven Yi wrote:
>>>>> Hi Andres,
>>>>>
>>>>> Just a quick note as I'm away on vacation, but blue does not have a
>>>>> specific format so to speak, but it does save and load the object from
>>>>> XML.  Conceptually it's a bit different too as the interface for
>>>>> instruments and soundObjects are encompassed within the larger context
>>>>> of the project, while something like Cabbage, MacCsound, QuteCsound,
>>>>> and Cecilia have really one level of interface and code separation.
>>>>> This may make it not exactly a 1:1 for other systems, but blue could
>>>>> be made to import/export individual instruments to a common format I
>>>>> think.
>>>>>
>>>>> As for the general system, blue needs an update itself for preset
>>>>> storage, as right now they are storing preset values with the
>>>>> objectName of the widget.  Object names are unique per widget within
>>>>> an instrument, but it is possible for a widget's objectName to be
>>>>> changed such that an invalid set of values get mapped to the wrong
>>>>> widget.  This needs a change to assign a unique ID for all widgets and
>>>>> to use that generated unique ID which would never change per object.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would look at the BSBObject abstract class in blue's source, as well
>>>>> as the widgets that implement that:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://bluemusic.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/bluemusic/blue/trunk/blue-core/src/blue/orchestra/blueSynthBuilder/
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll be off and on internet the next few days and will then be setting
>>>>> up our new apartment (we're moving across the country, so things will
>>>>> be a bit off for the next week as well).
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> steven
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 8:43 AM, Andres Cabrera wrote:
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd like some intial feedback about a new unified widget spec for
>>>>>> Csound. I'd initially base my spec on blue, trying to change as little
>>>>>> as possible to make it generic. I'll implement this in QuteCsound,
>>>>>> which will enable translation from MacCsound format to the new format.
>>>>>> I'm thinking this format needs to be xml to make it easily extensible,
>>>>>> and each widget will have a unique identifier which will enable a
>>>>>> preset section to store "snapshots" which will not be affected by the
>>>>>> creation or removal or widgets.
>>>>>> What do YOU (as in you all) need or feel should be included in a widget spec?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Steven, do you have any docs about the format you are using, or can
>>>>>> you point me to the sources where this can be found in blue?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Andrés
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Andrés
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
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>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
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>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> Andrés
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>

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Yes, your syntax is easy to turn into XML but might lose something if
it is passed from XML back to a shorthand syntax, especially if things
have been extended. I've been meaning to add cabbage import/export to
QuteCsound. I'll get to this soon, as it will give me a perspective on
widget interoperability.

Cheers,
Andrés

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 9:33 AM, Rory Walsh wrote:
> I forgot about that! I think my cabbage syntax could easily be
> converted to xml but I'd still like to offer the shorthand syntax too.
> One thing I like most about how the different front-ends are organised
> is that it's relatively easy to transfer instruments from one frontend
> to another as the widget syntax is not Csound specific and doesn'tr
> reside within the orc section. Potentially all frontends could share
> instruments.
>
> Rory.
>
>
> 2009/8/13 Andres Cabrera :
>> Maybe I've been working on the csound manual for far too long, but I
>> find XML editable by hand... =)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Andrés
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 6:03 AM, Rory Walsh wrote:
>>> For me the major draw back with xml is that it's a pain to edit by
>>> hand. I know that most frontends offer a drag and drop system but I
>>> still like the idea of being able to easily edit widgets properties
>>> manually rather than through a GUI.
>>>
>>> Rory.
>>>
>>>
>>> 2009/8/13 Steven Yi :
>>>> Hi Andres,
>>>>
>>>> I think I would have to add a possibility for top-level project-wide
>>>> UI to blue to get a real 1:1 with QuteCsound.  I think it'd be
>>>> possible for blue to read QuteCsound projects then, but it might not
>>>> be possible to go the other way due to all of the other features in
>>>> blue that do not exist in QuteCsound (score timeline, automations,
>>>> mixer, etc.).  This may be alright though and could offer some
>>>> interesting community building opportunities, and blueShare could be
>>>> modified to accept QuteCsound projects.
>>>>
>>>> steven
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Andres Cabrera wrote:
>>>>> Thanks Steven,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll dig into this. It would be great if we could get some
>>>>> compatibility between QuteCsound and blue, maybe even through
>>>>> BlueShare.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Andrés
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Steven Yi wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Andres,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just a quick note as I'm away on vacation, but blue does not have a
>>>>>> specific format so to speak, but it does save and load the object from
>>>>>> XML.  Conceptually it's a bit different too as the interface for
>>>>>> instruments and soundObjects are encompassed within the larger context
>>>>>> of the project, while something like Cabbage, MacCsound, QuteCsound,
>>>>>> and Cecilia have really one level of interface and code separation.
>>>>>> This may make it not exactly a 1:1 for other systems, but blue could
>>>>>> be made to import/export individual instruments to a common format I
>>>>>> think.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As for the general system, blue needs an update itself for preset
>>>>>> storage, as right now they are storing preset values with the
>>>>>> objectName of the widget.  Object names are unique per widget within
>>>>>> an instrument, but it is possible for a widget's objectName to be
>>>>>> changed such that an invalid set of values get mapped to the wrong
>>>>>> widget.  This needs a change to assign a unique ID for all widgets and
>>>>>> to use that generated unique ID which would never change per object.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would look at the BSBObject abstract class in blue's source, as well
>>>>>> as the widgets that implement that:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://bluemusic.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/bluemusic/blue/trunk/blue-core/src/blue/orchestra/blueSynthBuilder/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'll be off and on internet the next few days and will then be setting
>>>>>> up our new apartment (we're moving across the country, so things will
>>>>>> be a bit off for the next week as well).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> steven
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 8:43 AM, Andres Cabrera wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd like some intial feedback about a new unified widget spec for
>>>>>>> Csound. I'd initially base my spec on blue, trying to change as little
>>>>>>> as possible to make it generic. I'll implement this in QuteCsound,
>>>>>>> which will enable translation from MacCsound format to the new format.
>>>>>>> I'm thinking this format needs to be xml to make it easily extensible,
>>>>>>> and each widget will have a unique identifier which will enable a
>>>>>>> preset section to store "snapshots" which will not be affected by the
>>>>>>> creation or removal or widgets.
>>>>>>> What do YOU (as in you all) need or feel should be included in a widget spec?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Steven, do you have any docs about the format you are using, or can
>>>>>>> you point me to the sources where this can be found in blue?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Andrés
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>>>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>>>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Andrés
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> Andrés
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
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>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>
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> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
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-- 


Andrés

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Take your time, I'm rewriting it at present and it's going painfully slow...

2009/8/13 Andres Cabrera :
> Yes, your syntax is easy to turn into XML but might lose something if
> it is passed from XML back to a shorthand syntax, especially if things
> have been extended. I've been meaning to add cabbage import/export to
> QuteCsound. I'll get to this soon, as it will give me a perspective on
> widget interoperability.
>
> Cheers,
> Andrés
>
> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 9:33 AM, Rory Walsh wrote:
>> I forgot about that! I think my cabbage syntax could easily be
>> converted to xml but I'd still like to offer the shorthand syntax too.
>> One thing I like most about how the different front-ends are organised
>> is that it's relatively easy to transfer instruments from one frontend
>> to another as the widget syntax is not Csound specific and doesn'tr
>> reside within the orc section. Potentially all frontends could share
>> instruments.
>>
>> Rory.
>>
>>
>> 2009/8/13 Andres Cabrera :
>>> Maybe I've been working on the csound manual for far too long, but I
>>> find XML editable by hand... =)
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Andrés
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 6:03 AM, Rory Walsh wrote:
>>>> For me the major draw back with xml is that it's a pain to edit by
>>>> hand. I know that most frontends offer a drag and drop system but I
>>>> still like the idea of being able to easily edit widgets properties
>>>> manually rather than through a GUI.
>>>>
>>>> Rory.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2009/8/13 Steven Yi :
>>>>> Hi Andres,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think I would have to add a possibility for top-level project-wide
>>>>> UI to blue to get a real 1:1 with QuteCsound.  I think it'd be
>>>>> possible for blue to read QuteCsound projects then, but it might not
>>>>> be possible to go the other way due to all of the other features in
>>>>> blue that do not exist in QuteCsound (score timeline, automations,
>>>>> mixer, etc.).  This may be alright though and could offer some
>>>>> interesting community building opportunities, and blueShare could be
>>>>> modified to accept QuteCsound projects.
>>>>>
>>>>> steven
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Andres Cabrera wrote:
>>>>>> Thanks Steven,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'll dig into this. It would be great if we could get some
>>>>>> compatibility between QuteCsound and blue, maybe even through
>>>>>> BlueShare.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Andrés
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Steven Yi wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Andres,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just a quick note as I'm away on vacation, but blue does not have a
>>>>>>> specific format so to speak, but it does save and load the object from
>>>>>>> XML.  Conceptually it's a bit different too as the interface for
>>>>>>> instruments and soundObjects are encompassed within the larger context
>>>>>>> of the project, while something like Cabbage, MacCsound, QuteCsound,
>>>>>>> and Cecilia have really one level of interface and code separation.
>>>>>>> This may make it not exactly a 1:1 for other systems, but blue could
>>>>>>> be made to import/export individual instruments to a common format I
>>>>>>> think.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As for the general system, blue needs an update itself for preset
>>>>>>> storage, as right now they are storing preset values with the
>>>>>>> objectName of the widget.  Object names are unique per widget within
>>>>>>> an instrument, but it is possible for a widget's objectName to be
>>>>>>> changed such that an invalid set of values get mapped to the wrong
>>>>>>> widget.  This needs a change to assign a unique ID for all widgets and
>>>>>>> to use that generated unique ID which would never change per object.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would look at the BSBObject abstract class in blue's source, as well
>>>>>>> as the widgets that implement that:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://bluemusic.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/bluemusic/blue/trunk/blue-core/src/blue/orchestra/blueSynthBuilder/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'll be off and on internet the next few days and will then be setting
>>>>>>> up our new apartment (we're moving across the country, so things will
>>>>>>> be a bit off for the next week as well).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> steven
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 8:43 AM, Andres Cabrera wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'd like some intial feedback about a new unified widget spec for
>>>>>>>> Csound. I'd initially base my spec on blue, trying to change as little
>>>>>>>> as possible to make it generic. I'll implement this in QuteCsound,
>>>>>>>> which will enable translation from MacCsound format to the new format.
>>>>>>>> I'm thinking this format needs to be xml to make it easily extensible,
>>>>>>>> and each widget will have a unique identifier which will enable a
>>>>>>>> preset section to store "snapshots" which will not be affected by the
>>>>>>>> creation or removal or widgets.
>>>>>>>> What do YOU (as in you all) need or feel should be included in a widget spec?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Steven, do you have any docs about the format you are using, or can
>>>>>>>> you point me to the sources where this can be found in blue?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Andrés
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>>>>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>>>>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>>>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>>>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>>>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Andrés
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> Andrés
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
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>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> Andrés
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
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Will there be changes in the widget format?

Cheers,
Andrés

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 10:30 AM, Rory Walsh wrote:
> Take your time, I'm rewriting it at present and it's going painfully slow...
>
> 2009/8/13 Andres Cabrera :
>> Yes, your syntax is easy to turn into XML but might lose something if
>> it is passed from XML back to a shorthand syntax, especially if things
>> have been extended. I've been meaning to add cabbage import/export to
>> QuteCsound. I'll get to this soon, as it will give me a perspective on
>> widget interoperability.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Andrés
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 9:33 AM, Rory Walsh wrote:
>>> I forgot about that! I think my cabbage syntax could easily be
>>> converted to xml but I'd still like to offer the shorthand syntax too.
>>> One thing I like most about how the different front-ends are organised
>>> is that it's relatively easy to transfer instruments from one frontend
>>> to another as the widget syntax is not Csound specific and doesn'tr
>>> reside within the orc section. Potentially all frontends could share
>>> instruments.
>>>
>>> Rory.
>>>
>>>
>>> 2009/8/13 Andres Cabrera :
>>>> Maybe I've been working on the csound manual for far too long, but I
>>>> find XML editable by hand... =)
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Andrés
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 6:03 AM, Rory Walsh wrote:
>>>>> For me the major draw back with xml is that it's a pain to edit by
>>>>> hand. I know that most frontends offer a drag and drop system but I
>>>>> still like the idea of being able to easily edit widgets properties
>>>>> manually rather than through a GUI.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rory.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2009/8/13 Steven Yi :
>>>>>> Hi Andres,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think I would have to add a possibility for top-level project-wide
>>>>>> UI to blue to get a real 1:1 with QuteCsound.  I think it'd be
>>>>>> possible for blue to read QuteCsound projects then, but it might not
>>>>>> be possible to go the other way due to all of the other features in
>>>>>> blue that do not exist in QuteCsound (score timeline, automations,
>>>>>> mixer, etc.).  This may be alright though and could offer some
>>>>>> interesting community building opportunities, and blueShare could be
>>>>>> modified to accept QuteCsound projects.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> steven
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Andres Cabrera wrote:
>>>>>>> Thanks Steven,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'll dig into this. It would be great if we could get some
>>>>>>> compatibility between QuteCsound and blue, maybe even through
>>>>>>> BlueShare.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Andrés
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Steven Yi wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi Andres,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just a quick note as I'm away on vacation, but blue does not have a
>>>>>>>> specific format so to speak, but it does save and load the object from
>>>>>>>> XML.  Conceptually it's a bit different too as the interface for
>>>>>>>> instruments and soundObjects are encompassed within the larger context
>>>>>>>> of the project, while something like Cabbage, MacCsound, QuteCsound,
>>>>>>>> and Cecilia have really one level of interface and code separation.
>>>>>>>> This may make it not exactly a 1:1 for other systems, but blue could
>>>>>>>> be made to import/export individual instruments to a common format I
>>>>>>>> think.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As for the general system, blue needs an update itself for preset
>>>>>>>> storage, as right now they are storing preset values with the
>>>>>>>> objectName of the widget.  Object names are unique per widget within
>>>>>>>> an instrument, but it is possible for a widget's objectName to be
>>>>>>>> changed such that an invalid set of values get mapped to the wrong
>>>>>>>> widget.  This needs a change to assign a unique ID for all widgets and
>>>>>>>> to use that generated unique ID which would never change per object.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would look at the BSBObject abstract class in blue's source, as well
>>>>>>>> as the widgets that implement that:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://bluemusic.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/bluemusic/blue/trunk/blue-core/src/blue/orchestra/blueSynthBuilder/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'll be off and on internet the next few days and will then be setting
>>>>>>>> up our new apartment (we're moving across the country, so things will
>>>>>>>> be a bit off for the next week as well).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> steven
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 8:43 AM, Andres Cabrera wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'd like some intial feedback about a new unified widget spec for
>>>>>>>>> Csound. I'd initially base my spec on blue, trying to change as little
>>>>>>>>> as possible to make it generic. I'll implement this in QuteCsound,
>>>>>>>>> which will enable translation from MacCsound format to the new format.
>>>>>>>>> I'm thinking this format needs to be xml to make it easily extensible,
>>>>>>>>> and each widget will have a unique identifier which will enable a
>>>>>>>>> preset section to store "snapshots" which will not be affected by the
>>>>>>>>> creation or removal or widgets.
>>>>>>>>> What do YOU (as in you all) need or feel should be included in a widget spec?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Steven, do you have any docs about the format you are using, or can
>>>>>>>>> you point me to the sources where this can be found in blue?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>> Andrés
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>>>>>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>>>>>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>>>>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>>>>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>>>>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>>>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Andrés
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>>>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>>>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Andrés
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> Andrés
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>
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> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
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-- 


Andrés

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Certain things do pop up from time to time, if anything does change
I'll let you know..

2009/8/13 Andres Cabrera :
> Will there be changes in the widget format?
>
> Cheers,
> Andrés
>
> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 10:30 AM, Rory Walsh wrote:
>> Take your time, I'm rewriting it at present and it's going painfully slow...
>>
>> 2009/8/13 Andres Cabrera :
>>> Yes, your syntax is easy to turn into XML but might lose something if
>>> it is passed from XML back to a shorthand syntax, especially if things
>>> have been extended. I've been meaning to add cabbage import/export to
>>> QuteCsound. I'll get to this soon, as it will give me a perspective on
>>> widget interoperability.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Andrés
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 9:33 AM, Rory Walsh wrote:
>>>> I forgot about that! I think my cabbage syntax could easily be
>>>> converted to xml but I'd still like to offer the shorthand syntax too.
>>>> One thing I like most about how the different front-ends are organised
>>>> is that it's relatively easy to transfer instruments from one frontend
>>>> to another as the widget syntax is not Csound specific and doesn'tr
>>>> reside within the orc section. Potentially all frontends could share
>>>> instruments.
>>>>
>>>> Rory.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2009/8/13 Andres Cabrera :
>>>>> Maybe I've been working on the csound manual for far too long, but I
>>>>> find XML editable by hand... =)
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Andrés
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 6:03 AM, Rory Walsh wrote:
>>>>>> For me the major draw back with xml is that it's a pain to edit by
>>>>>> hand. I know that most frontends offer a drag and drop system but I
>>>>>> still like the idea of being able to easily edit widgets properties
>>>>>> manually rather than through a GUI.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rory.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2009/8/13 Steven Yi :
>>>>>>> Hi Andres,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think I would have to add a possibility for top-level project-wide
>>>>>>> UI to blue to get a real 1:1 with QuteCsound.  I think it'd be
>>>>>>> possible for blue to read QuteCsound projects then, but it might not
>>>>>>> be possible to go the other way due to all of the other features in
>>>>>>> blue that do not exist in QuteCsound (score timeline, automations,
>>>>>>> mixer, etc.).  This may be alright though and could offer some
>>>>>>> interesting community building opportunities, and blueShare could be
>>>>>>> modified to accept QuteCsound projects.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> steven
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Andres Cabrera wrote:
>>>>>>>> Thanks Steven,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'll dig into this. It would be great if we could get some
>>>>>>>> compatibility between QuteCsound and blue, maybe even through
>>>>>>>> BlueShare.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> Andrés
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Steven Yi wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi Andres,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Just a quick note as I'm away on vacation, but blue does not have a
>>>>>>>>> specific format so to speak, but it does save and load the object from
>>>>>>>>> XML.  Conceptually it's a bit different too as the interface for
>>>>>>>>> instruments and soundObjects are encompassed within the larger context
>>>>>>>>> of the project, while something like Cabbage, MacCsound, QuteCsound,
>>>>>>>>> and Cecilia have really one level of interface and code separation.
>>>>>>>>> This may make it not exactly a 1:1 for other systems, but blue could
>>>>>>>>> be made to import/export individual instruments to a common format I
>>>>>>>>> think.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As for the general system, blue needs an update itself for preset
>>>>>>>>> storage, as right now they are storing preset values with the
>>>>>>>>> objectName of the widget.  Object names are unique per widget within
>>>>>>>>> an instrument, but it is possible for a widget's objectName to be
>>>>>>>>> changed such that an invalid set of values get mapped to the wrong
>>>>>>>>> widget.  This needs a change to assign a unique ID for all widgets and
>>>>>>>>> to use that generated unique ID which would never change per object.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I would look at the BSBObject abstract class in blue's source, as well
>>>>>>>>> as the widgets that implement that:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://bluemusic.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/bluemusic/blue/trunk/blue-core/src/blue/orchestra/blueSynthBuilder/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'll be off and on internet the next few days and will then be setting
>>>>>>>>> up our new apartment (we're moving across the country, so things will
>>>>>>>>> be a bit off for the next week as well).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>> steven
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 8:43 AM, Andres Cabrera wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'd like some intial feedback about a new unified widget spec for
>>>>>>>>>> Csound. I'd initially base my spec on blue, trying to change as little
>>>>>>>>>> as possible to make it generic. I'll implement this in QuteCsound,
>>>>>>>>>> which will enable translation from MacCsound format to the new format.
>>>>>>>>>> I'm thinking this format needs to be xml to make it easily extensible,
>>>>>>>>>> and each widget will have a unique identifier which will enable a
>>>>>>>>>> preset section to store "snapshots" which will not be affected by the
>>>>>>>>>> creation or removal or widgets.
>>>>>>>>>> What do YOU (as in you all) need or feel should be included in a widget spec?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Steven, do you have any docs about the format you are using, or can
>>>>>>>>>> you point me to the sources where this can be found in blue?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>> Andrés
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>>>>>>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>>>>>>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>>>>>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>>>>>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>>>>>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>>>>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Andrés
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>>>>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>>>>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>>>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>>>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>>>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Andrés
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> Andrés
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
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>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
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>
>
>
> --
>
>
> Andrés
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
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>

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Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day 
trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on 
what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with 
Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
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