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Re: [Cs-dev] Question About the Organization of the Csound Sources

Date2005-02-11 20:46
From"gogins@pipeline.com"
SubjectRe: [Cs-dev] Question About the Organization of the Csound Sources
Whoever changes the files must be responsible for changing the SConstruct
file or the makefiles at the same time. The work should be done in stages
-- change a few files, update the build files, test build, see if things
still work, book in changes, repeat. 

Otherwise the build will break for other developers -- muy bad!

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Richard Boulanger rboulanger@berklee.edu
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 13:46:41 -0500
To: csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] Question About the Organization of the Csound Sources


Michael,

I would be happy to do it myself.

It seems that this would be a good thing for the future developers -
 
If there is some interest, once I finish,  Who of the current developers
would fix the makefiles and the includes?

Rick

I would on 2/11/05 1:31 PM, gogins@pipeline.com at gogins@pipeline.com
wrote:

> I don't think most developers are going to be put off by finding this kind
> of mild disorganization. If it's important to you, perhaps you could get
> one of your students to become a Csound developer and factor out the
> sources into one opcode per .c file.
> 
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Richard Boulanger rboulanger@berklee.edu
> Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 12:03:28 -0500
> To: csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] Question About the Organization of the Csound
Sources
> 
> 
> I understand what you are saying.  That's cool and thanks for the tip.
> 
> It worked here on my Mac in the Terminal.  Cool.  (I need to learn grep
for
> sure.)
> 
> BUT...
> 
> Doesn't it make sense, that in this wonderful effort to cleanup, organize,
> etc. that you might help future developers and especially
students/teachers,
> to not require them to hunt for everything? Why not "standardize" the
> sources and just reveal what is "in" Csound.
> 
> Or
> 
> Why not just put everything in opcodes.c and opcodes.h?
> 
> Why are some here and some there? And why are some separate and some
grouped
> into groups that have no logical affiliation?
> 
> Isn't this one of the very things that ALWAYS frustrated new developers
> about Csound - that it took them a few hours/days to figure out what was
> there and how things were "organized." (if at all).
> 
> Rick
> 
> 2/11/05 11:48 AM, gogins@pipeline.com at gogins@pipeline.com wrote:
> 
>> I will always prefer to fix bugs or add new functionality, over fixing
> what
>> is not broken.
>> 
>> Anyone who wants to find anything in Csound 5 only has to go to the
> csound5
>> directory and:
>> 
>> grep findthis */*.c
>> 
>> Original Message:
>> -----------------
>> From: Richard Boulanger rboulanger@berklee.edu
>> Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 11:01:08 -0500
>> To: csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> Subject: [Cs-dev] Question About the Organization of the Csound Sources
>> 
>> 
>> Dear Developers,
>> 
>> I may be way off here and please forgive me if I am, but since there is
> this
> 
>> incredible effort to organize and include all things in Csound5 and make
> the
>> code simpler to study, expand, etc, why is it that we continue to group
so
>> many of the older ugens into ugens1.c - ugensB.c - rather than separate
>> opcodes into .c and .h files and/or folders
>> 
>> I am sure that these are referenced in many many files and that it would
>> mean checking for, changing and fixing many busted #includes, and then
> there
>> would need to be changes in all these great makefiles that are currently
>> working.....
>> 
>> but wouldn't it be so much clearer to have each of the opcodes in a
> separate
>> file.  Where is convolve.c, foscil.c, loscil.c? (Yes I can find them.)
And
>> why are they in ugens.x vs ugens.y? And why not in ugens.z?
>> 
>> It just seems to me that it would be so much clearer and easier to study,
>> expand, search, etc... - if you had a folder with all the opcodes .c and
> .h
>> files - or if you would organize things into folders such as the oscil
>> family, the filter family, the envelope family, the ftable family, etc...
>> 
>> Here today for example, I am looking for the "transeg" sources.  And
using
>> jedit on my Mac, I am able to look into all the files and find that it is
>> located in pitch.c (in the 4.23f8 sources).  What exactly does it have to
> do
>> with "pitch?"
>> 
>> I bet you have already cleaned all this up in the Csound5 sources.  If
> this
>> is the case, then please forgive me for asking this ridiculous question,
> but
>> if you have not done this level of re-organization, I think it would be
>> incredibly helpful to students especially, and to teachers without a clue
> -
>> suffering on a Macintosh OS - such as me, if you would consider doing it.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> -Dr. B.
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>> +  Dr. Richard Boulanger, Professor
>> +  Music Synthesis Department, Berklee College of Music
>> +  1140 Boylston Street  - Boston, MA  02215-3693
>> +  Office Phone: (617) 747-2485   Office Fax: (617) 747-2564
>> +  eMail: rboulanger@csounds.com  or  rboulanger@berklee.edu
>> +  WebPage: http://csounds.com/boulanger/
>> ________________________________________________________________________
>> +  Almost Everything Csound @ http://csounds.com/
>> +  The Csound Catalog with Audio @ http://csounds.com/catalog/
>> +  The Csound Book @ http://csounds.com/book/
>> +  The Csound Magazine @ http://csounds.com/ezine/
>> +  CsoundForums @ http://csounds.com/phpBB2/
>> ________________________________________________________________________
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>> SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide
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>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> 
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>> 
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> http://mail2web.com/ .
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>> SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide
>> Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users.
>> Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now.
>> http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_ide95&alloc_id396&op=click
>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
> 
> _______________________________________________________________________
> +  Dr. Richard Boulanger, Professor
> +  Music Synthesis Department, Berklee College of Music
> +  1140 Boylston Street  - Boston, MA  02215-3693
> +  Office Phone: (617) 747-2485   Office Fax: (617) 747-2564
> +  eMail: rboulanger@csounds.com  or  rboulanger@berklee.edu
> +  WebPage: http://csounds.com/boulanger/
> ________________________________________________________________________
> +  Almost Everything Csound @ http://csounds.com/
> +  The Csound Catalog with Audio @ http://csounds.com/catalog/
> +  The Csound Book @ http://csounds.com/book/
> +  The Csound Magazine @ http://csounds.com/ezine/
> +  CsoundForums @ http://csounds.com/phpBB2/
> ________________________________________________________________________
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide
> Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users.
> Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now.
> http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595&alloc_id=14396&op=click
> _______________________________________________
> Csound-devel mailing list
> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web - Check your email from the web at
> http://mail2web.com/ .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide
> Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users.
> Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now.
> http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_ide95&alloc_id396&op=click
> _______________________________________________
> Csound-devel mailing list
> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel

_______________________________________________________________________
 +  Dr. Richard Boulanger, Professor
 +  Music Synthesis Department, Berklee College of Music
 +  1140 Boylston Street  - Boston, MA  02215-3693
 +  Office Phone: (617) 747-2485   Office Fax: (617) 747-2564
 +  eMail: rboulanger@csounds.com  or  rboulanger@berklee.edu
 +  WebPage: http://csounds.com/boulanger/
________________________________________________________________________
 +  Almost Everything Csound @ http://csounds.com/
 +  The Csound Catalog with Audio @ http://csounds.com/catalog/
 +  The Csound Book @ http://csounds.com/book/
 +  The Csound Magazine @ http://csounds.com/ezine/
 +  CsoundForums @ http://csounds.com/phpBB2/
________________________________________________________________________



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Date2005-02-11 20:55
From"Richard Boulanger"
SubjectRe: [Cs-dev] Question About the Organization of the Csound Sources
Please - SuperDeveloper Person...  Make this a weekend project.  It would
make a HUGE difference to future developers, students, and teachers.

Dr. B.

on 2/11/05 3:46 PM, gogins@pipeline.com at gogins@pipeline.com wrote:

> Whoever changes the files must be responsible for changing the SConstruct
> file or the makefiles at the same time. The work should be done in stages
> -- change a few files, update the build files, test build, see if things
> still work, book in changes, repeat.
> 
> Otherwise the build will break for other developers -- muy bad!
> 
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Richard Boulanger rboulanger@berklee.edu
> Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 13:46:41 -0500
> To: csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] Question About the Organization of the Csound Sources
> 
> 
> Michael,
> 
> I would be happy to do it myself.
> 
> It seems that this would be a good thing for the future developers -
> 
> If there is some interest, once I finish,  Who of the current developers
> would fix the makefiles and the includes?
> 
> Rick
> 
> I would on 2/11/05 1:31 PM, gogins@pipeline.com at gogins@pipeline.com
> wrote:
> 
>> I don't think most developers are going to be put off by finding this kind
>> of mild disorganization. If it's important to you, perhaps you could get
>> one of your students to become a Csound developer and factor out the
>> sources into one opcode per .c file.
>> 
>> Original Message:
>> -----------------
>> From: Richard Boulanger rboulanger@berklee.edu
>> Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 12:03:28 -0500
>> To: csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] Question About the Organization of the Csound
> Sources
>> 
>> 
>> I understand what you are saying.  That's cool and thanks for the tip.
>> 
>> It worked here on my Mac in the Terminal.  Cool.  (I need to learn grep
> for
>> sure.)
>> 
>> BUT...
>> 
>> Doesn't it make sense, that in this wonderful effort to cleanup, organize,
>> etc. that you might help future developers and especially
> students/teachers,
>> to not require them to hunt for everything? Why not "standardize" the
>> sources and just reveal what is "in" Csound.
>> 
>> Or
>> 
>> Why not just put everything in opcodes.c and opcodes.h?
>> 
>> Why are some here and some there? And why are some separate and some
> grouped
>> into groups that have no logical affiliation?
>> 
>> Isn't this one of the very things that ALWAYS frustrated new developers
>> about Csound - that it took them a few hours/days to figure out what was
>> there and how things were "organized." (if at all).
>> 
>> Rick
>> 
>> 2/11/05 11:48 AM, gogins@pipeline.com at gogins@pipeline.com wrote:
>> 
>>> I will always prefer to fix bugs or add new functionality, over fixing
>> what
>>> is not broken.
>>> 
>>> Anyone who wants to find anything in Csound 5 only has to go to the
>> csound5
>>> directory and:
>>> 
>>> grep findthis */*.c
>>> 
>>> Original Message:
>>> -----------------
>>> From: Richard Boulanger rboulanger@berklee.edu
>>> Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 11:01:08 -0500
>>> To: csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> Subject: [Cs-dev] Question About the Organization of the Csound Sources
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dear Developers,
>>> 
>>> I may be way off here and please forgive me if I am, but since there is
>> this
>> 
>>> incredible effort to organize and include all things in Csound5 and make
>> the
>>> code simpler to study, expand, etc, why is it that we continue to group
> so
>>> many of the older ugens into ugens1.c - ugensB.c - rather than separate
>>> opcodes into .c and .h files and/or folders
>>> 
>>> I am sure that these are referenced in many many files and that it would
>>> mean checking for, changing and fixing many busted #includes, and then
>> there
>>> would need to be changes in all these great makefiles that are currently
>>> working.....
>>> 
>>> but wouldn't it be so much clearer to have each of the opcodes in a
>> separate
>>> file.  Where is convolve.c, foscil.c, loscil.c? (Yes I can find them.)
> And
>>> why are they in ugens.x vs ugens.y? And why not in ugens.z?
>>> 
>>> It just seems to me that it would be so much clearer and easier to study,
>>> expand, search, etc... - if you had a folder with all the opcodes .c and
>> .h
>>> files - or if you would organize things into folders such as the oscil
>>> family, the filter family, the envelope family, the ftable family, etc...
>>> 
>>> Here today for example, I am looking for the "transeg" sources.  And
> using
>>> jedit on my Mac, I am able to look into all the files and find that it is
>>> located in pitch.c (in the 4.23f8 sources).  What exactly does it have to
>> do
>>> with "pitch?"
>>> 
>>> I bet you have already cleaned all this up in the Csound5 sources.  If
>> this
>>> is the case, then please forgive me for asking this ridiculous question,
>> but
>>> if you have not done this level of re-organization, I think it would be
>>> incredibly helpful to students especially, and to teachers without a clue
>> -
>>> suffering on a Macintosh OS - such as me, if you would consider doing it.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> -Dr. B.
>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>> +  Dr. Richard Boulanger, Professor
>>> +  Music Synthesis Department, Berklee College of Music
>>> +  1140 Boylston Street  - Boston, MA  02215-3693
>>> +  Office Phone: (617) 747-2485   Office Fax: (617) 747-2564
>>> +  eMail: rboulanger@csounds.com  or  rboulanger@berklee.edu
>>> +  WebPage: http://csounds.com/boulanger/
>>> ________________________________________________________________________
>>> +  Almost Everything Csound @ http://csounds.com/
>>> +  The Csound Catalog with Audio @ http://csounds.com/catalog/
>>> +  The Csound Book @ http://csounds.com/book/
>>> +  The Csound Magazine @ http://csounds.com/ezine/
>>> +  CsoundForums @ http://csounds.com/phpBB2/
>>> ________________________________________________________________________
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>> SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide
>>> Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users.
>>> Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now.
>>> http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595&alloc_id=14396&op=click
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> 
>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>> 
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> mail2web - Check your email from the web at
>>> http://mail2web.com/ .
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>> SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide
>>> Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users.
>>> Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now.
>>> http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_ide95&alloc_id396&op=click
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>> 
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>> +  Dr. Richard Boulanger, Professor
>> +  Music Synthesis Department, Berklee College of Music
>> +  1140 Boylston Street  - Boston, MA  02215-3693
>> +  Office Phone: (617) 747-2485   Office Fax: (617) 747-2564
>> +  eMail: rboulanger@csounds.com  or  rboulanger@berklee.edu
>> +  WebPage: http://csounds.com/boulanger/
>> ________________________________________________________________________
>> +  Almost Everything Csound @ http://csounds.com/
>> +  The Csound Catalog with Audio @ http://csounds.com/catalog/
>> +  The Csound Book @ http://csounds.com/book/
>> +  The Csound Magazine @ http://csounds.com/ezine/
>> +  CsoundForums @ http://csounds.com/phpBB2/
>> ________________________________________________________________________
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>> SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide
>> Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users.
>> Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now.
>> http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595&alloc_id=14396&op=click
>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>> 
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>> mail2web - Check your email from the web at
>> http://mail2web.com/ .
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>> SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide
>> Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users.
>> Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now.
>> http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_ide95&alloc_id396&op=click
>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
> 
> _______________________________________________________________________
> +  Dr. Richard Boulanger, Professor
> +  Music Synthesis Department, Berklee College of Music
> +  1140 Boylston Street  - Boston, MA  02215-3693
> +  Office Phone: (617) 747-2485   Office Fax: (617) 747-2564
> +  eMail: rboulanger@csounds.com  or  rboulanger@berklee.edu
> +  WebPage: http://csounds.com/boulanger/
> ________________________________________________________________________
> +  Almost Everything Csound @ http://csounds.com/
> +  The Csound Catalog with Audio @ http://csounds.com/catalog/
> +  The Csound Book @ http://csounds.com/book/
> +  The Csound Magazine @ http://csounds.com/ezine/
> +  CsoundForums @ http://csounds.com/phpBB2/
> ________________________________________________________________________
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide
> Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users.
> Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now.
> http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595&alloc_id=14396&op=click
> _______________________________________________
> Csound-devel mailing list
> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web - Check your email from the web at
> http://mail2web.com/ .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide
> Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users.
> Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now.
> http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_ide95&alloc_id396&op=click
> _______________________________________________
> Csound-devel mailing list
> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel

_______________________________________________________________________
 +  Dr. Richard Boulanger, Professor
 +  Music Synthesis Department, Berklee College of Music
 +  1140 Boylston Street  - Boston, MA  02215-3693
 +  Office Phone: (617) 747-2485   Office Fax: (617) 747-2564
 +  eMail: rboulanger@csounds.com  or  rboulanger@berklee.edu
 +  WebPage: http://csounds.com/boulanger/
________________________________________________________________________
 +  Almost Everything Csound @ http://csounds.com/
 +  The Csound Catalog with Audio @ http://csounds.com/catalog/
 +  The Csound Book @ http://csounds.com/book/
 +  The Csound Magazine @ http://csounds.com/ezine/
 +  CsoundForums @ http://csounds.com/phpBB2/
________________________________________________________________________



-------------------------------------------------------
SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide
Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users.
Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now.
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_______________________________________________
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