Sounds like a good first step. To keep (for the moment) backwards compatibility with frontends we
could have csoundCompile() to call these two in a sequence. I guess you were probably already planning that.

Victor
On 25 Apr 2012, at 10:05, Tito Latini wrote:

> I have separated (not applied) `csoundParseOrc' and `csoundCompileOrc'.
> 
> changes:
> 
>  - moved ORCTOKEN and TREE in csound.h
> 
>  - new API:
>    PUBLIC TREE *csoundParseOrc(CSOUND *csound, char *str);
>    PUBLIC int csoundCompileOrc(CSOUND *csound, TREE *root);
> 
>  - removed `new_orc_parser' and `csound_orc_compile'
> 
> 
> next steps:
> 
>  - to think a way to call `csoundLoadExternals' and
>    `csoundInitModules' from the API
> 
>    (I think that csoundPreCompile is not a good place)
> 
>  - to write csoundCompileSco
> 
>  - to think a way to call `musmon' from the API
> 
> After these steps, it is possible to parse and compile orchestra
> and score using the API, without osc/sco files. The old behavior
> (orc+sco) is unchanged.
> 
> tito
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Dept. of Music
NUI Maynooth Ireland
tel.: +353 1 708 3545
Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie




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what about?

csoundLoadModules()
csoundReadScore() or csoundSortScore()

Victor
On 25 Apr 2012, at 12:37, Tito Latini wrote:

> Applied.
> 
> The next step is only a problem with the function-names for the API.
> We have need of
> 
>  - a name for a function that calls `csoundLoadExternals'
>    and `csoundInitModules'
> 
>  - a name for a function that sets `csound->scorestr'
>    and calls `scsortstr'
> 
>    I think that csoundParseSco is securely a misname.
> 
>  - a name for a function that calls `musmon'
> 
> tito
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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tel.: +353 1 708 3545
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Sounds good!

The next thing I would like to see is hook functions to be called
whenever Csound (a) needs to create an instrument template and (b)
needs to create a new instance of an instrument from that template
(and (c), (d), etc. whatever Csound needs to call to manage the whole
lifecycle of the instrument instance), together with such other types
and functions that an externally written and compiled instrument
template would need to be managed by Csound.

We already pretty much have this for opcodes with plugin opcodes and
the module system. The module loading functions are kind of generic
and perhaps they can do some of this work if there are suitable
instrument template and instance management functions in the API that
the just loaded module could call, e.g. to install template creation
and instr instantiation callbacks.

Regards,
Mike

On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 5:05 AM, Tito Latini  wrote:
> I have separated (not applied) `csoundParseOrc' and `csoundCompileOrc'.
>
> changes:
>
>  - moved ORCTOKEN and TREE in csound.h
>
>  - new API:
>    PUBLIC TREE *csoundParseOrc(CSOUND *csound, char *str);
>    PUBLIC int csoundCompileOrc(CSOUND *csound, TREE *root);
>
>  - removed `new_orc_parser' and `csound_orc_compile'
>
>
> next steps:
>
>  - to think a way to call `csoundLoadExternals' and
>    `csoundInitModules' from the API
>
>    (I think that csoundPreCompile is not a good place)
>
>  - to write csoundCompileSco
>
>  - to think a way to call `musmon' from the API
>
> After these steps, it is possible to parse and compile orchestra
> and score using the API, without osc/sco files. The old behavior
> (orc+sco) is unchanged.
>
> tito
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
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-- 
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Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com

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Yes, that is what I was talking about. But the module that is loaded,
which in this use case contains an instrument template written and
compiled in another language, needs to write this template up with
Csound for performance. So there need to be API functions to register
callbacks that Csound will call, and Csound needs to have tables of
these callbacks and hooks to call them during performance.

Regards,
Mike

On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 8:34 AM, Tito Latini  wrote:
> `csoundLoadModules' already exists in csmodule.c
>
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 12:58:09PM +0100, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>> what about?
>>
>> csoundLoadModules()
>> csoundReadScore() or csoundSortScore()
>>
>> Victor
>> On 25 Apr 2012, at 12:37, Tito Latini wrote:
>>
>> > Applied.
>> >
>> > The next step is only a problem with the function-names for the API.
>> > We have need of
>> >
>> >  - a name for a function that calls `csoundLoadExternals'
>> >    and `csoundInitModules'
>> >
>> >  - a name for a function that sets `csound->scorestr'
>> >    and calls `scsortstr'
>> >
>> >    I think that csoundParseSco is securely a misname.
>> >
>> >  - a name for a function that calls `musmon'
>> >
>> > tito
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > Live Security Virtual Conference
>> > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>> > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
>> > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
>> > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Csound-devel mailing list
>> > Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>> Senior Lecturer
>> Dept. of Music
>> NUI Maynooth Ireland
>> tel.: +353 1 708 3545
>> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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-- 
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http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com

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Oh, yes, of course.

I think the existing csoundLoadModules() should be renamed csoundLoadLibraries().

Victor

On 25 Apr 2012, at 13:34, Tito Latini wrote:

> `csoundLoadModules' already exists in csmodule.c
> 
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 12:58:09PM +0100, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>> what about?
>> 
>> csoundLoadModules()
>> csoundReadScore() or csoundSortScore()
>> 
>> Victor
>> On 25 Apr 2012, at 12:37, Tito Latini wrote:
>> 
>>> Applied.
>>> 
>>> The next step is only a problem with the function-names for the API.
>>> We have need of
>>> 
>>> - a name for a function that calls `csoundLoadExternals'
>>>   and `csoundInitModules'
>>> 
>>> - a name for a function that sets `csound->scorestr'
>>>   and calls `scsortstr'
>>> 
>>>   I think that csoundParseSco is securely a misname.
>>> 
>>> - a name for a function that calls `musmon'
>>> 
>>> tito
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>> 
>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>> Senior Lecturer
>> Dept. of Music
>> NUI Maynooth Ireland
>> tel.: +353 1 708 3545
>> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
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Dr Victor Lazzarini
Senior Lecturer
Dept. of Music
NUI Maynooth Ireland
tel.: +353 1 708 3545
Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie




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In fact, a bit of refactoring here is in order. We have two functions  that do similar jobs:

csoundLoadExternals()  called from argdecode.c and main.c (command-line libraries)
and
csoundLoadModules() called in csoundPreCompile() (csound.c) (libraries in OPCODEDIR)

I am pretty sure these can be merged somehow into a single csoundLoadModules().

Victor
On 25 Apr 2012, at 13:56, Victor Lazzarini wrote:

> Oh, yes, of course.
> 
> I think the existing csoundLoadModules() should be renamed csoundLoadLibraries().
> 
> Victor
> 
> On 25 Apr 2012, at 13:34, Tito Latini wrote:
> 
>> `csoundLoadModules' already exists in csmodule.c
>> 
>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 12:58:09PM +0100, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>> what about?
>>> 
>>> csoundLoadModules()
>>> csoundReadScore() or csoundSortScore()
>>> 
>>> Victor
>>> On 25 Apr 2012, at 12:37, Tito Latini wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Applied.
>>>> 
>>>> The next step is only a problem with the function-names for the API.
>>>> We have need of
>>>> 
>>>> - a name for a function that calls `csoundLoadExternals'
>>>>  and `csoundInitModules'
>>>> 
>>>> - a name for a function that sets `csound->scorestr'
>>>>  and calls `scsortstr'
>>>> 
>>>>  I think that csoundParseSco is securely a misname.
>>>> 
>>>> - a name for a function that calls `musmon'
>>>> 
>>>> tito
>>>> 
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
>>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
>>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
>>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>> 
>>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>>> Senior Lecturer
>>> Dept. of Music
>>> NUI Maynooth Ireland
>>> tel.: +353 1 708 3545
>>> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> 
> Dr Victor Lazzarini
> Senior Lecturer
> Dept. of Music
> NUI Maynooth Ireland
> tel.: +353 1 708 3545
> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Dr Victor Lazzarini
Senior Lecturer
Dept. of Music
NUI Maynooth Ireland
tel.: +353 1 708 3545
Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie




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All part of the clash of the original csound5 design to load modules that
were needed and the alternative to load everything


> In fact, a bit of refactoring here is in order. We have two functions
> that do similar jobs:
>
> csoundLoadExternals()  called from argdecode.c and main.c (command-line
> libraries)
> and
> csoundLoadModules() called in csoundPreCompile() (csound.c) (libraries in
> OPCODEDIR)
>
> I am pretty sure these can be merged somehow into a single
> csoundLoadModules().
>
> Victor
> On 25 Apr 2012, at 13:56, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>
>> Oh, yes, of course.
>>
>> I think the existing csoundLoadModules() should be renamed
>> csoundLoadLibraries().
>>
>> Victor
>>
>> On 25 Apr 2012, at 13:34, Tito Latini wrote:
>>
>>> `csoundLoadModules' already exists in csmodule.c
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 12:58:09PM +0100, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>>> what about?
>>>>
>>>> csoundLoadModules()
>>>> csoundReadScore() or csoundSortScore()
>>>>
>>>> Victor
>>>> On 25 Apr 2012, at 12:37, Tito Latini wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Applied.
>>>>>
>>>>> The next step is only a problem with the function-names for the API.
>>>>> We have need of
>>>>>
>>>>> - a name for a function that calls `csoundLoadExternals'
>>>>>  and `csoundInitModules'
>>>>>
>>>>> - a name for a function that sets `csound->scorestr'
>>>>>  and calls `scsortstr'
>>>>>
>>>>>  I think that csoundParseSco is securely a misname.
>>>>>
>>>>> - a name for a function that calls `musmon'
>>>>>
>>>>> tito
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>>>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>>>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>>>>> Discussions
>>>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
>>>>> malware
>>>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>
>>>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>>>> Senior Lecturer
>>>> Dept. of Music
>>>> NUI Maynooth Ireland
>>>> tel.: +353 1 708 3545
>>>> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>>>> Discussions
>>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
>>>> malware
>>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>>> Discussions
>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
>>> malware
>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>> Senior Lecturer
>> Dept. of Music
>> NUI Maynooth Ireland
>> tel.: +353 1 708 3545
>> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>> Discussions
>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
>> malware
>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>
> Dr Victor Lazzarini
> Senior Lecturer
> Dept. of Music
> NUI Maynooth Ireland
> tel.: +353 1 708 3545
> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>
>
>



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Should we try to implement some sort of dynamic loading? Modules on OPCODEDIR and command-line could be parsed and then loaded only if an opcode is used.

Victor
On 25 Apr 2012, at 14:16, jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk wrote:

> All part of the clash of the original csound5 design to load modules that
> were needed and the alternative to load everything
> 
> 
>> In fact, a bit of refactoring here is in order. We have two functions
>> that do similar jobs:
>> 
>> csoundLoadExternals()  called from argdecode.c and main.c (command-line
>> libraries)
>> and
>> csoundLoadModules() called in csoundPreCompile() (csound.c) (libraries in
>> OPCODEDIR)
>> 
>> I am pretty sure these can be merged somehow into a single
>> csoundLoadModules().
>> 
>> Victor
>> On 25 Apr 2012, at 13:56, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>> 
>>> Oh, yes, of course.
>>> 
>>> I think the existing csoundLoadModules() should be renamed
>>> csoundLoadLibraries().
>>> 
>>> Victor
>>> 
>>> On 25 Apr 2012, at 13:34, Tito Latini wrote:
>>> 
>>>> `csoundLoadModules' already exists in csmodule.c
>>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 12:58:09PM +0100, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>>>> what about?
>>>>> 
>>>>> csoundLoadModules()
>>>>> csoundReadScore() or csoundSortScore()
>>>>> 
>>>>> Victor
>>>>> On 25 Apr 2012, at 12:37, Tito Latini wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Applied.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The next step is only a problem with the function-names for the API.
>>>>>> We have need of
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> - a name for a function that calls `csoundLoadExternals'
>>>>>> and `csoundInitModules'
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> - a name for a function that sets `csound->scorestr'
>>>>>> and calls `scsortstr'
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I think that csoundParseSco is securely a misname.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> - a name for a function that calls `musmon'
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> tito
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>>>>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>>>>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>>>>>> Discussions
>>>>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
>>>>>> malware
>>>>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>>>>> Senior Lecturer
>>>>> Dept. of Music
>>>>> NUI Maynooth Ireland
>>>>> tel.: +353 1 708 3545
>>>>> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>>>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>>>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>>>>> Discussions
>>>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
>>>>> malware
>>>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>> 
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>>>> Discussions
>>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
>>>> malware
>>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>> 
>>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>>> Senior Lecturer
>>> Dept. of Music
>>> NUI Maynooth Ireland
>>> tel.: +353 1 708 3545
>>> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>>> Discussions
>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
>>> malware
>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>> 
>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>> Senior Lecturer
>> Dept. of Music
>> NUI Maynooth Ireland
>> tel.: +353 1 708 3545
>> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Csound-devel mailing list
> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel

Dr Victor Lazzarini
Senior Lecturer
Dept. of Music
NUI Maynooth Ireland
tel.: +353 1 708 3545
Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie




------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
_______________________________________________
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I believe "module" is technically correct. Libraries may be statically
linked, dynamically linked, or dynamically loaded. A module is a
library that is not dynamically linked, it is dynamically loaded. That
is what all the plugins in Csound are.

Regards,
Mike

On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 8:56 AM, Victor Lazzarini
 wrote:
> Oh, yes, of course.
>
> I think the existing csoundLoadModules() should be renamed csoundLoadLibraries().
>
> Victor
>
> On 25 Apr 2012, at 13:34, Tito Latini wrote:
>
>> `csoundLoadModules' already exists in csmodule.c
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 12:58:09PM +0100, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>> what about?
>>>
>>> csoundLoadModules()
>>> csoundReadScore() or csoundSortScore()
>>>
>>> Victor
>>> On 25 Apr 2012, at 12:37, Tito Latini wrote:
>>>
>>>> Applied.
>>>>
>>>> The next step is only a problem with the function-names for the API.
>>>> We have need of
>>>>
>>>> - a name for a function that calls `csoundLoadExternals'
>>>>   and `csoundInitModules'
>>>>
>>>> - a name for a function that sets `csound->scorestr'
>>>>   and calls `scsortstr'
>>>>
>>>>   I think that csoundParseSco is securely a misname.
>>>>
>>>> - a name for a function that calls `musmon'
>>>>
>>>> tito
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
>>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
>>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>
>>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>>> Senior Lecturer
>>> Dept. of Music
>>> NUI Maynooth Ireland
>>> tel.: +353 1 708 3545
>>> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>
> Dr Victor Lazzarini
> Senior Lecturer
> Dept. of Music
> NUI Maynooth Ireland
> tel.: +353 1 708 3545
> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Csound-devel mailing list
> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel



-- 
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
_______________________________________________
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What's the difference between dynamic linking and dynamic loading?

On 4/25/12, Michael Gogins  wrote:
> I believe "module" is technically correct. Libraries may be statically
> linked, dynamically linked, or dynamically loaded. A module is a
> library that is not dynamically linked, it is dynamically loaded. That
> is what all the plugins in Csound are.
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 8:56 AM, Victor Lazzarini
>  wrote:
>> Oh, yes, of course.
>>
>> I think the existing csoundLoadModules() should be renamed
>> csoundLoadLibraries().
>>
>> Victor
>>
>> On 25 Apr 2012, at 13:34, Tito Latini wrote:
>>
>>> `csoundLoadModules' already exists in csmodule.c
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 12:58:09PM +0100, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>>> what about?
>>>>
>>>> csoundLoadModules()
>>>> csoundReadScore() or csoundSortScore()
>>>>
>>>> Victor
>>>> On 25 Apr 2012, at 12:37, Tito Latini wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Applied.
>>>>>
>>>>> The next step is only a problem with the function-names for the API.
>>>>> We have need of
>>>>>
>>>>> - a name for a function that calls `csoundLoadExternals'
>>>>>   and `csoundInitModules'
>>>>>
>>>>> - a name for a function that sets `csound->scorestr'
>>>>>   and calls `scsortstr'
>>>>>
>>>>>   I think that csoundParseSco is securely a misname.
>>>>>
>>>>> - a name for a function that calls `musmon'
>>>>>
>>>>> tito
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>>>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>>>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>>>>> Discussions
>>>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
>>>>> malware
>>>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>
>>>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>>>> Senior Lecturer
>>>> Dept. of Music
>>>> NUI Maynooth Ireland
>>>> tel.: +353 1 708 3545
>>>> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>>>> Discussions
>>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
>>>> malware
>>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>>> Discussions
>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
>>> malware
>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>> Senior Lecturer
>> Dept. of Music
>> NUI Maynooth Ireland
>> tel.: +353 1 708 3545
>> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>
>
>
> --
> Michael Gogins
> Irreducible Productions
> http://www.michael-gogins.com
> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Csound-devel mailing list
> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
_______________________________________________
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Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net

I'd like to add one thing to Michaels (very complete) explanation. The
reasons dynamic loading exists (or, more accurately, why it is
relevant for csound) are mainly two:

1. You cannot mark a _linked_ library as optional, thus the whole
application fails if one library cannot be loaded (think the python
opcodes lib requiring the python library). A _loaded_ library can just
be discarded if it fails.

2. You need to know at build time to which libraries you will link
against. This means third parties cannot provide plugins unless they
are dynamically loaded at runtime.


On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 22:54, Michael Gogins  wrote:
> Dynamic linking is done by the compiler and linker at compile time, dynamic
> loading is done by the application at run time.
>
> I'll try to make this clear. Code contains objects, named areas of memory.
> The object thus consists of a "symbol" or name plus an address pointing to
> the area of memory where the value of the object is stored. Functions are
> important objects -- the symbol is the function name and the object is the
> executable code for the function, which is located somewhere in memory.
>
> When the compiler and linker build a program, one of the important things
> that the linker does is to bind functions by taking their names and finding
> out the actual addresses of the code for those functions. For a static
> library, this is done by the linker at link time. All the code for all the
> functions is simply built right into the program and so the addresses are
> fixed for all time. For a shared library, this is done by a part of the
> operating system called the linking loader.
>
> For a dynamic library, the linker has already created the symbols in the
> application just as with a statically linked library, but it has left the
> addresses blank. The linker has also embedded the name of the shared library
> in the application. The linking loader automatically reads this name, finds
> the library somehow (that's a whole story unto itself), loads the library,
> finds the actual addresses of all the symbols, and writes those addresses
> into the blank values of the symbols. That's runtime binding.
>
> For a module, i.e. for dynamic loading, the compiler and linker do not know
> in advance the name of the shared library, and have not built any shared
> library names or import symbols into the application. The application get
> this name, or names, by scanning a directory, reading a configuration file,
> or something like that. Then the application loads the shared library (using
> dlopen on Linux), and the application binds the address of a function in the
> library to a symbol, usually a function pointer (using dlsym on Linux).
>
> So the difference between dynamic linking and dynamic loading is that with
> dynamic linking the functions are linked at compile time and automatically
> bound by the operating system at run time, but with dynamic loading the
> functions are both linked and bound at run time by the application itself.
>
> Hope this helps,
> Mike
>
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 9:16 PM, Adam Puckett 
> wrote:
>>
>> What's the difference between dynamic linking and dynamic loading?
>>
>> On 4/25/12, Michael Gogins  wrote:
>> > I believe "module" is technically correct. Libraries may be statically
>> > linked, dynamically linked, or dynamically loaded. A module is a
>> > library that is not dynamically linked, it is dynamically loaded. That
>> > is what all the plugins in Csound are.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Mike
>> >
>> > On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 8:56 AM, Victor Lazzarini
>> >  wrote:
>> >> Oh, yes, of course.
>> >>
>> >> I think the existing csoundLoadModules() should be renamed
>> >> csoundLoadLibraries().
>> >>
>> >> Victor
>> >>
>> >> On 25 Apr 2012, at 13:34, Tito Latini wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> `csoundLoadModules' already exists in csmodule.c
>> >>>
>> >>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 12:58:09PM +0100, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>> >>>> what about?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> csoundLoadModules()
>> >>>> csoundReadScore() or csoundSortScore()
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Victor
>> >>>> On 25 Apr 2012, at 12:37, Tito Latini wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Applied.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> The next step is only a problem with the function-names for the API.
>> >>>>> We have need of
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> - a name for a function that calls `csoundLoadExternals'
>> >>>>>   and `csoundInitModules'
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> - a name for a function that sets `csound->scorestr'
>> >>>>>   and calls `scsortstr'
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>   I think that csoundParseSco is securely a misname.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> - a name for a function that calls `musmon'
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> tito
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>> >>>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>> >>>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>> >>>>> Discussions
>> >>>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
>> >>>>> malware
>> >>>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> >>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> >>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>> >>>> Senior Lecturer
>> >>>> Dept. of Music
>> >>>> NUI Maynooth Ireland
>> >>>> tel.: +353 1 708 3545
>> >>>> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>> >>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>> >>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>> >>>> Discussions
>> >>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
>> >>>> malware
>> >>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> >>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>> >>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>> >>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>> >>> Discussions
>> >>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
>> >>> malware
>> >>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> >>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>> >>
>> >> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>> >> Senior Lecturer
>> >> Dept. of Music
>> >> NUI Maynooth Ireland
>> >> tel.: +353 1 708 3545
>> >> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> Live Security Virtual Conference
>> >> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>> >> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>> >> Discussions
>> >> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
>> >> malware
>> >> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Csound-devel mailing list
>> >> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Michael Gogins
>> > Irreducible Productions
>> > http://www.michael-gogins.com
>> > Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > Live Security Virtual Conference
>> > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>> > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>> > Discussions
>> > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
>> > malware
>> > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Csound-devel mailing list
>> > Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>> >
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>
>
>
>
> --
> Michael Gogins
> Irreducible Productions
> http://www.michael-gogins.com
> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Csound-devel mailing list
> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>



-- 

Saludos,
Felipe Sateler

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
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_______________________________________________
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https://lists.sou

Hi,

On OS X you can do some sort of dynamic linking which doesn't bind the
symbols of the dynamic library until they are used. This is a nice
facility which simplifies distribution of applications with optional
dependencies. Does Linux have something like that?

Cheers,
Andrés

On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 1:45 PM, Felipe Sateler  wrote:
> I'd like to add one thing to Michaels (very complete) explanation. The
> reasons dynamic loading exists (or, more accurately, why it is
> relevant for csound) are mainly two:
>
> 1. You cannot mark a _linked_ library as optional, thus the whole
> application fails if one library cannot be loaded (think the python
> opcodes lib requiring the python library). A _loaded_ library can just
> be discarded if it fails.
>
> 2. You need to know at build time to which libraries you will link
> against. This means third parties cannot provide plugins unless they
> are dynamically loaded at runtime.
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 22:54, Michael Gogins  wrote:
>> Dynamic linking is done by the compiler and linker at compile time, dynamic
>> loading is done by the application at run time.
>>
>> I'll try to make this clear. Code contains objects, named areas of memory.
>> The object thus consists of a "symbol" or name plus an address pointing to
>> the area of memory where the value of the object is stored. Functions are
>> important objects -- the symbol is the function name and the object is the
>> executable code for the function, which is located somewhere in memory.
>>
>> When the compiler and linker build a program, one of the important things
>> that the linker does is to bind functions by taking their names and finding
>> out the actual addresses of the code for those functions. For a static
>> library, this is done by the linker at link time. All the code for all the
>> functions is simply built right into the program and so the addresses are
>> fixed for all time. For a shared library, this is done by a part of the
>> operating system called the linking loader.
>>
>> For a dynamic library, the linker has already created the symbols in the
>> application just as with a statically linked library, but it has left the
>> addresses blank. The linker has also embedded the name of the shared library
>> in the application. The linking loader automatically reads this name, finds
>> the library somehow (that's a whole story unto itself), loads the library,
>> finds the actual addresses of all the symbols, and writes those addresses
>> into the blank values of the symbols. That's runtime binding.
>>
>> For a module, i.e. for dynamic loading, the compiler and linker do not know
>> in advance the name of the shared library, and have not built any shared
>> library names or import symbols into the application. The application get
>> this name, or names, by scanning a directory, reading a configuration file,
>> or something like that. Then the application loads the shared library (using
>> dlopen on Linux), and the application binds the address of a function in the
>> library to a symbol, usually a function pointer (using dlsym on Linux).
>>
>> So the difference between dynamic linking and dynamic loading is that with
>> dynamic linking the functions are linked at compile time and automatically
>> bound by the operating system at run time, but with dynamic loading the
>> functions are both linked and bound at run time by the application itself.
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>> Mike
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 9:16 PM, Adam Puckett 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> What's the difference between dynamic linking and dynamic loading?
>>>
>>> On 4/25/12, Michael Gogins  wrote:
>>> > I believe "module" is technically correct. Libraries may be statically
>>> > linked, dynamically linked, or dynamically loaded. A module is a
>>> > library that is not dynamically linked, it is dynamically loaded. That
>>> > is what all the plugins in Csound are.
>>> >
>>> > Regards,
>>> > Mike
>>> >
>>> > On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 8:56 AM, Victor Lazzarini
>>> >  wrote:
>>> >> Oh, yes, of course.
>>> >>
>>> >> I think the existing csoundLoadModules() should be renamed
>>> >> csoundLoadLibraries().
>>> >>
>>> >> Victor
>>> >>
>>> >> On 25 Apr 2012, at 13:34, Tito Latini wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> `csoundLoadModules' already exists in csmodule.c
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 12:58:09PM +0100, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>> >>>> what about?
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> csoundLoadModules()
>>> >>>> csoundReadScore() or csoundSortScore()
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Victor
>>> >>>> On 25 Apr 2012, at 12:37, Tito Latini wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> Applied.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> The next step is only a problem with the function-names for the API.
>>> >>>>> We have need of
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> - a name for a function that calls `csoundLoadExternals'
>>> >>>>>   and `csoundInitModules'
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> - a name for a function that sets `csound->scorestr'
>>> >>>>>   and calls `scsortstr'
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>   I think that csoundParseSco is securely a misname.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> - a name for a function that calls `musmon'
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> tito
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >>>>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>>> >>>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>>> >>>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>>> >>>>> Discussions
>>> >>>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
>>> >>>>> malware
>>> >>>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> >>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> >>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>>> >>>> Senior Lecturer
>>> >>>> Dept. of Music
>>> >>>> NUI Maynooth Ireland
>>> >>>> tel.: +353 1 708 3545
>>> >>>> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >>>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>>> >>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>>> >>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>>> >>>> Discussions
>>> >>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
>>> >>>> malware
>>> >>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> >>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>>> >>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>>> >>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>>> >>> Discussions
>>> >>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
>>> >>> malware
>>> >>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> >>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>> >>
>>> >> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>>> >> Senior Lecturer
>>> >> Dept. of Music
>>> >> NUI Maynooth Ireland
>>> >> tel.: +353 1 708 3545
>>> >> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >> Live Security Virtual Conference
>>> >> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>>> >> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>>> >> Discussions
>>> >> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
>>> >> malware
>>> >> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> >> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Michael Gogins
>>> > Irreducible Productions
>>> > http://www.michael-gogins.com
>>> > Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > Live Security Virtual Conference
>>> > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>>> > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>>> > Discussions
>>> > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
>>> > malware
>>> > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Csound-devel mailing list
>>> > Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Michael Gogins
>> Irreducible Productions
>> http://www.michael-gogins.com
>> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Saludos,
> Felipe Sateler
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Csound-devel mailing list
> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
_______________________________________________
Csound-devel mailing list
Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.s

You mean lazy loading + weak symbols? As far as I can tell, this helps
with using different versions of a library (ie, use a newer API
function only if the library installed is actually new), but it
doesn't help when the library is absent.

Do you have a name for that facility that I can google?

On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 10:29, Andres Cabrera  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On OS X you can do some sort of dynamic linking which doesn't bind the
> symbols of the dynamic library until they are used. This is a nice
> facility which simplifies distribution of applications with optional
> dependencies. Does Linux have something like that?
>
> Cheers,
> Andrés
>
> On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 1:45 PM, Felipe Sateler  wrote:
>> I'd like to add one thing to Michaels (very complete) explanation. The
>> reasons dynamic loading exists (or, more accurately, why it is
>> relevant for csound) are mainly two:
>>
>> 1. You cannot mark a _linked_ library as optional, thus the whole
>> application fails if one library cannot be loaded (think the python
>> opcodes lib requiring the python library). A _loaded_ library can just
>> be discarded if it fails.
>>
>> 2. You need to know at build time to which libraries you will link
>> against. This means third parties cannot provide plugins unless they
>> are dynamically loaded at runtime.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 22:54, Michael Gogins  wrote:
>>> Dynamic linking is done by the compiler and linker at compile time, dynamic
>>> loading is done by the application at run time.
>>>
>>> I'll try to make this clear. Code contains objects, named areas of memory.
>>> The object thus consists of a "symbol" or name plus an address pointing to
>>> the area of memory where the value of the object is stored. Functions are
>>> important objects -- the symbol is the function name and the object is the
>>> executable code for the function, which is located somewhere in memory.
>>>
>>> When the compiler and linker build a program, one of the important things
>>> that the linker does is to bind functions by taking their names and finding
>>> out the actual addresses of the code for those functions. For a static
>>> library, this is done by the linker at link time. All the code for all the
>>> functions is simply built right into the program and so the addresses are
>>> fixed for all time. For a shared library, this is done by a part of the
>>> operating system called the linking loader.
>>>
>>> For a dynamic library, the linker has already created the symbols in the
>>> application just as with a statically linked library, but it has left the
>>> addresses blank. The linker has also embedded the name of the shared library
>>> in the application. The linking loader automatically reads this name, finds
>>> the library somehow (that's a whole story unto itself), loads the library,
>>> finds the actual addresses of all the symbols, and writes those addresses
>>> into the blank values of the symbols. That's runtime binding.
>>>
>>> For a module, i.e. for dynamic loading, the compiler and linker do not know
>>> in advance the name of the shared library, and have not built any shared
>>> library names or import symbols into the application. The application get
>>> this name, or names, by scanning a directory, reading a configuration file,
>>> or something like that. Then the application loads the shared library (using
>>> dlopen on Linux), and the application binds the address of a function in the
>>> library to a symbol, usually a function pointer (using dlsym on Linux).
>>>
>>> So the difference between dynamic linking and dynamic loading is that with
>>> dynamic linking the functions are linked at compile time and automatically
>>> bound by the operating system at run time, but with dynamic loading the
>>> functions are both linked and bound at run time by the application itself.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps,
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 9:16 PM, Adam Puckett 
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> What's the difference between dynamic linking and dynamic loading?
>>>>
>>>> On 4/25/12, Michael Gogins  wrote:
>>>> > I believe "module" is technically correct. Libraries may be statically
>>>> > linked, dynamically linked, or dynamically loaded. A module is a
>>>> > library that is not dynamically linked, it is dynamically loaded. That
>>>> > is what all the plugins in Csound are.
>>>> >
>>>> > Regards,
>>>> > Mike
>>>> >
>>>> > On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 8:56 AM, Victor Lazzarini
>>>> >  wrote:
>>>> >> Oh, yes, of course.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I think the existing csoundLoadModules() should be renamed
>>>> >> csoundLoadLibraries().
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Victor
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On 25 Apr 2012, at 13:34, Tito Latini wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> `csoundLoadModules' already exists in csmodule.c
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 12:58:09PM +0100, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>>> >>>> what about?
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> csoundLoadModules()
>>>> >>>> csoundReadScore() or csoundSortScore()
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Victor
>>>> >>>> On 25 Apr 2012, at 12:37, Tito Latini wrote:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>> Applied.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> The next step is only a problem with the function-names for the API.
>>>> >>>>> We have need of
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> - a name for a function that calls `csoundLoadExternals'
>>>> >>>>>   and `csoundInitModules'
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> - a name for a function that sets `csound->scorestr'
>>>> >>>>>   and calls `scsortstr'
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>   I think that csoundParseSco is securely a misname.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> - a name for a function that calls `musmon'
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> tito
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> >>>>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>>>> >>>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>>>> >>>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>>>> >>>>> Discussions
>>>> >>>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
>>>> >>>>> malware
>>>> >>>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> >>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>> >>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> >>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>>>> >>>> Senior Lecturer
>>>> >>>> Dept. of Music
>>>> >>>> NUI Maynooth Ireland
>>>> >>>> tel.: +353 1 708 3545
>>>> >>>> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> >>>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>>>> >>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>>>> >>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>>>> >>>> Discussions
>>>> >>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
>>>> >>>> malware
>>>> >>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> >>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>> >>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> >>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>>>> >>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>>>> >>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>>>> >>> Discussions
>>>> >>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
>>>> >>> malware
>>>> >>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>> >>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>> >>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>>>> >> Senior Lecturer
>>>> >> Dept. of Music
>>>> >> NUI Maynooth Ireland
>>>> >> tel.: +353 1 708 3545
>>>> >> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> >> Live Security Virtual Conference
>>>> >> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>>>> >> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>>>> >> Discussions
>>>> >> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
>>>> >> malware
>>>> >> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>> >> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > Michael Gogins
>>>> > Irreducible Productions
>>>> > http://www.michael-gogins.com
>>>> > Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> > Live Security Virtual Conference
>>>> > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>>>> > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>>>> > Discussions
>>>> > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
>>>> > malware
>>>> > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > Csound-devel mailing list
>>>> > Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
>>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
>>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Michael Gogins
>>> Irreducible Productions
>>> http://www.michael-gogins.com
>>> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Saludos,
>> Felipe Sateler
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Csound-devel mailing list
> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel



-- 

Saludos,
Felipe Sateler

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
_______________________________________________
Csound-devel mailing list
Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
htt

Hi,

You may be right that it's just that. I haven't used the facility,
it's something I've heard...

Cheers,
Andrés

On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 2:54 PM, Felipe Sateler  wrote:
> You mean lazy loading + weak symbols? As far as I can tell, this helps
> with using different versions of a library (ie, use a newer API
> function only if the library installed is actually new), but it
> doesn't help when the library is absent.
>
> Do you have a name for that facility that I can google?
>
> On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 10:29, Andres Cabrera  wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> On OS X you can do some sort of dynamic linking which doesn't bind the
>> symbols of the dynamic library until they are used. This is a nice
>> facility which simplifies distribution of applications with optional
>> dependencies. Does Linux have something like that?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Andrés
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 1:45 PM, Felipe Sateler  wrote:
>>> I'd like to add one thing to Michaels (very complete) explanation. The
>>> reasons dynamic loading exists (or, more accurately, why it is
>>> relevant for csound) are mainly two:
>>>
>>> 1. You cannot mark a _linked_ library as optional, thus the whole
>>> application fails if one library cannot be loaded (think the python
>>> opcodes lib requiring the python library). A _loaded_ library can just
>>> be discarded if it fails.
>>>
>>> 2. You need to know at build time to which libraries you will link
>>> against. This means third parties cannot provide plugins unless they
>>> are dynamically loaded at runtime.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 22:54, Michael Gogins  wrote:
>>>> Dynamic linking is done by the compiler and linker at compile time, dynamic
>>>> loading is done by the application at run time.
>>>>
>>>> I'll try to make this clear. Code contains objects, named areas of memory.
>>>> The object thus consists of a "symbol" or name plus an address pointing to
>>>> the area of memory where the value of the object is stored. Functions are
>>>> important objects -- the symbol is the function name and the object is the
>>>> executable code for the function, which is located somewhere in memory.
>>>>
>>>> When the compiler and linker build a program, one of the important things
>>>> that the linker does is to bind functions by taking their names and finding
>>>> out the actual addresses of the code for those functions. For a static
>>>> library, this is done by the linker at link time. All the code for all the
>>>> functions is simply built right into the program and so the addresses are
>>>> fixed for all time. For a shared library, this is done by a part of the
>>>> operating system called the linking loader.
>>>>
>>>> For a dynamic library, the linker has already created the symbols in the
>>>> application just as with a statically linked library, but it has left the
>>>> addresses blank. The linker has also embedded the name of the shared library
>>>> in the application. The linking loader automatically reads this name, finds
>>>> the library somehow (that's a whole story unto itself), loads the library,
>>>> finds the actual addresses of all the symbols, and writes those addresses
>>>> into the blank values of the symbols. That's runtime binding.
>>>>
>>>> For a module, i.e. for dynamic loading, the compiler and linker do not know
>>>> in advance the name of the shared library, and have not built any shared
>>>> library names or import symbols into the application. The application get
>>>> this name, or names, by scanning a directory, reading a configuration file,
>>>> or something like that. Then the application loads the shared library (using
>>>> dlopen on Linux), and the application binds the address of a function in the
>>>> library to a symbol, usually a function pointer (using dlsym on Linux).
>>>>
>>>> So the difference between dynamic linking and dynamic loading is that with
>>>> dynamic linking the functions are linked at compile time and automatically
>>>> bound by the operating system at run time, but with dynamic loading the
>>>> functions are both linked and bound at run time by the application itself.
>>>>
>>>> Hope this helps,
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 9:16 PM, Adam Puckett 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> What's the difference between dynamic linking and dynamic loading?
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/25/12, Michael Gogins  wrote:
>>>>> > I believe "module" is technically correct. Libraries may be statically
>>>>> > linked, dynamically linked, or dynamically loaded. A module is a
>>>>> > library that is not dynamically linked, it is dynamically loaded. That
>>>>> > is what all the plugins in Csound are.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Regards,
>>>>> > Mike
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 8:56 AM, Victor Lazzarini
>>>>> >  wrote:
>>>>> >> Oh, yes, of course.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I think the existing csoundLoadModules() should be renamed
>>>>> >> csoundLoadLibraries().
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Victor
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> On 25 Apr 2012, at 13:34, Tito Latini wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>> `csoundLoadModules' already exists in csmodule.c
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 12:58:09PM +0100, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>>>> >>>> what about?
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> csoundLoadModules()
>>>>> >>>> csoundReadScore() or csoundSortScore()
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> Victor
>>>>> >>>> On 25 Apr 2012, at 12:37, Tito Latini wrote:
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>> Applied.
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> The next step is only a problem with the function-names for the API.
>>>>> >>>>> We have need of
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> - a name for a function that calls `csoundLoadExternals'
>>>>> >>>>>   and `csoundInitModules'
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> - a name for a function that sets `csound->scorestr'
>>>>> >>>>>   and calls `scsortstr'
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>   I think that csoundParseSco is securely a misname.
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> - a name for a function that calls `musmon'
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> tito
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> >>>>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>>>>> >>>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>>>>> >>>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>>>>> >>>>> Discussions
>>>>> >>>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
>>>>> >>>>> malware
>>>>> >>>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> >>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>> >>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>> >>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>>>>> >>>> Senior Lecturer
>>>>> >>>> Dept. of Music
>>>>> >>>> NUI Maynooth Ireland
>>>>> >>>> tel.: +353 1 708 3545
>>>>> >>>> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> >>>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>>>>> >>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>>>>> >>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>>>>> >>>> Discussions
>>>>> >>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
>>>>> >>>> malware
>>>>> >>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> >>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>> >>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>> >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> >>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>>>>> >>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>>>>> >>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>>>>> >>> Discussions
>>>>> >>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
>>>>> >>> malware
>>>>> >>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> >>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>> >>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>>>>> >> Senior Lecturer
>>>>> >> Dept. of Music
>>>>> >> NUI Maynooth Ireland
>>>>> >> tel.: +353 1 708 3545
>>>>> >> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> >> Live Security Virtual Conference
>>>>> >> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>>>>> >> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>>>>> >> Discussions
>>>>> >> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
>>>>> >> malware
>>>>> >> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>>> >> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>> >> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > --
>>>>> > Michael Gogins
>>>>> > Irreducible Productions
>>>>> > http://www.michael-gogins.com
>>>>> > Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> > Live Security Virtual Conference
>>>>> > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>>>>> > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>>>>> > Discussions
>>>>> > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
>>>>> > malware
>>>>> > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> > Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>> > Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>>>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>>>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
>>>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
>>>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Michael Gogins
>>>> Irreducible Productions
>>>> http://www.michael-gogins.com
>>>> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
>>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
>>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Saludos,
>>> Felipe Sateler
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>
>
>
> --
>
> Saludos,
> Felipe Sateler
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Csound-devel mailing list
> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
_______________________________________________
Csound-devel mailing list
Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
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