I have put up an initial work on a toolkit for building simple GUIs for
Csound in python (with PyGTK). This is intended to encapsulate both
the relevant widgets in pygtk and the relevant parts of the csound API in
csnd.

The idea is that widgets are created with bus channel bindings, which can
then be used in a csound orchestra. A few lines of python code are needed
to get an interface up and going, probably even fewer than what is reguired
for FLTK in csound.

I have created some simple examples to demonstrate how it can be used. The
source is documented and you can view it with pydoc (>pydoc csndgui).

To run this you will need the python csnd module and PyGTK.

Here is where you can find it: http://music.nuim.ie/vlazzarini/tmp

Victor Lazzarini
Music Technology Laboratory
Music Department
National University of Ireland, Maynooth 


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Running the examples on windows give lots of system beeps whenever I 
move a slider or press a button, also at the very start of the program. 
Has anyone else tried these examples with windows?

Rory.


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It might be a GTK thing. I am not sure how good it is on Windows.

At 19:18 09/11/2006, you wrote:
>Running the examples on windows give lots of system beeps whenever I
>move a slider or press a button, also at the very start of the program.
>Has anyone else tried these examples with windows?
>
>Rory.
>
>
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Victor Lazzarini
Music Technology Laboratory
Music Department
National University of Ireland, Maynooth 


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Apparently it's still a work in progress for windows. Of course it could 
also have something to do with the way I set up gtk on my machine which 
is why I was curious to see if others had any problems with it on 
windows. Cheers,

Rory.



Victor Lazzarini wrote:
> It might be a GTK thing. I am not sure how good it is on Windows.
> 
> At 19:18 09/11/2006, you wrote:
>> Running the examples on windows give lots of system beeps whenever I
>> move a slider or press a button, also at the very start of the program.
>> Has anyone else tried these examples with windows?
>>
>> Rory.
>>

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Well, get yourself a Linux machine, you won't regret.

At 10:34 10/11/2006, you wrote:
>Apparently it's still a work in progress for windows. Of course it could
>also have something to do with the way I set up gtk on my machine which
>is why I was curious to see if others had any problems with it on
>windows. Cheers,
>
>Rory.
>
>
>
>Victor Lazzarini wrote:
> > It might be a GTK thing. I am not sure how good it is on Windows.
> >
> > At 19:18 09/11/2006, you wrote:
> >> Running the examples on windows give lots of system beeps whenever I
> >> move a slider or press a button, also at the very start of the program.
> >> Has anyone else tried these examples with windows?
> >>
> >> Rory.
> >>
>
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Victor Lazzarini
Music Technology Laboratory
Music Department
National University of Ireland, Maynooth 


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It's gotta happen sooner or later!

Rory.


Victor Lazzarini wrote:
> Well, get yourself a Linux machine, you won't regret.
> 
> At 10:34 10/11/2006, you wrote:
>> Apparently it's still a work in progress for windows. Of course it could
>> also have something to do with the way I set up gtk on my machine which
>> is why I was curious to see if others had any problems with it on
>> windows. Cheers,
>>
>> Rory.
>>
>>
>>
>> Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>> It might be a GTK thing. I am not sure how good it is on Windows.
>>>
>>> At 19:18 09/11/2006, you wrote:
>>>> Running the examples on windows give lots of system beeps whenever I
>>>> move a slider or press a button, also at the very start of the program.
>>>> Has anyone else tried these examples with windows?
>>>>
>>>> Rory.
>>>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
> 
> Victor Lazzarini
> Music Technology Laboratory
> Music Department
> National University of Ireland, Maynooth 
> 
> 
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Im ressurecting this old thread as once again i'm kind of browsing around
going, err, err, gui toolkits.... err, err.... too hard, too crappy looking,
no tutorials..../ combinations thereof...

So cairo today has sparked my interest further, which leads me back to GTK,
which leads me to PyGTK, which leads me to this thread....(via a Nabble
Search)

& As PyGTK seems to have a reasonably extensive tutorial...

http://www.pygtk.org/pygtk2tutorial/index.html

& also now comes with it's own windows installer (yippee!)

& given GTK is cross platform & used extensively...

I'm wondering if maybe this is where i should try & get started

I'm not using csound api at all at present - essentially all i'd be looking
at doing is creating some gui elements that when you hit the "publish"
button spit out some csound score (or in my case, &/or parseval score...)
the GUI elements themselves would be simply defining trajectories , ftab
shapes, or, like AlgoScore(?) used for setting ranges of stochastic
parameters (& potentially later publishing displays of realisations
thereof...) all prior to score / text data publication (& i could whip up a
Parseval score display syntax highlighting front end while i was at it...)

I also notice cairo has python bindings, & if i'm not mistaken it's useage
in python would also be PyGTK dependent?? 

I say this as I found this example on the net also which further prompted my
interest...

http://blog.eikke.com/index.php/ikke/2007/02/17/python_cairo_xshape_and_clocks

so, yep, around in circles i go...

& i know I just said "i dont need real time API control", but obviously this
thread (& Victor's toolkit which was discussed here in Nov 2006...) would be
of interest for me to look at - has it been developed any further? & where
is the code & examples now Victor?

Have things elsewhere developed further since Nov 2006 to give the idea
renewed merit? (maybe... nothing like a bit of wishful thinking...)


Oeyvind Brandtsegg-2 wrote:
> 
> Nice, Victor.
> The python gui configuration files are impressively small, light and
> clear.
> Oeyvind
> 
> 2006/11/6, Victor Lazzarini :
>>
>> I have put up an initial work on a toolkit for building simple GUIs for
>> Csound in python (with PyGTK). This is intended to encapsulate both
>> the relevant widgets in pygtk and the relevant parts of the csound API in
>> csnd.
>>
>> The idea is that widgets are created with bus channel bindings, which can
>> then be used in a csound orchestra. A few lines of python code are needed
>> to get an interface up and going, probably even fewer than what is
>> reguired
>> for FLTK in csound.
>>
>> I have created some simple examples to demonstrate how it can be used.
>> The
>> source is documented and you can view it with pydoc (>pydoc csndgui).
>>
>> To run this you will need the python csnd module and PyGTK.
>>
>> Here is where you can find it: http://music.nuim.ie/vlazzarini/tmp
>>
>> Victor Lazzarini
>> Music Technology Laboratory
>> Music Department
>> National University of Ireland, Maynooth
>>
>>
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>> easier
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>> Geronimo
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>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
> 
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> 


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Tim Mortimer wrote:
...
> So cairo today has sparked my interest further, which leads me back to GTK,
> which leads me to PyGTK, which leads me to this thread....(via a Nabble
> Search)
> 
> & As PyGTK seems to have a reasonably extensive tutorial...
> 
> http://www.pygtk.org/pygtk2tutorial/index.html
> 
> & also now comes with it's own windows installer (yippee!)
> 
> & given GTK is cross platform & used extensively...
> 
> I'm wondering if maybe this is where i should try & get started
> 
> I'm not using csound api at all at present - essentially all i'd be looking
> at doing is creating some gui elements that when you hit the "publish"
> button spit out some csound score (or in my case, &/or parseval score...)
> the GUI elements themselves would be simply defining trajectories , ftab
> shapes, or, like AlgoScore(?) used for setting ranges of stochastic
> parameters (& potentially later publishing displays of realisations
> thereof...) all prior to score / text data publication (& i could whip up a
> Parseval score display syntax highlighting front end while i was at it...)
...

(Now I'm going to do shameless promotion of AlgoScore, again... :)

First I just wanted to say that using AlgoScore for stochastic or
algorithmic composition is only one of many possibilities, you can also
do totally non-algorithmic "manual" composition with it.

Regarding what you describe, it's exactly that sort of things I have in
mind for AlgoScore. It has gui elements (score objects) for different
kinds of curves (one that is like linseg, one like jitter, and sine and
random lfo's, etc..) and also an interface to define and visualize
ftabs. All these are now using numerical user input, but the plan is to
add user friendly mouse-editing of stuff like this.

So in AlgoScore, you can set up trajectories, ftab shapes, algorithmic
generated events, manually entered events, etc and connect them to a
csound bus. Then you press a button and AlgoScore will generate a score
and send it to csound, and csound will render the audio in a background
process so you can start listening even before it's finished. If you are
happy with the result you press "export audio" and it's saved as a
soundfile. Then you export the score to PDF, print it, and put in on the
wall above your bed. ;)

(Note that AlgoScore is non-realtime and batch oriented, but it
visualizes data while you work with it so it's easier to relate to the
material)

Regarding custom GUI's, AlgoScore is based on a scripting language
called Nasal which imho is even more elegant and simple to learn than
python. It looks a bit like JavaScript. AlgoScore has a built-in nasal
interpreter, with bindings to among other things csound, gtk and cairo.
So it's fully possible to create such scripts and run them within
algoscore. Example (untested):

####################
import("gtk");
import("csound");

generate_events = func {
  ...generate events according to algorithms or user input...
  return events;
}

get_filter_cutoff = func(t) {
  ...generate or get krate value at time t...
  return value;
}

cs = csound.create(1);

run_csound = func(length) {
  csound.compile(cs,["-o","foo.wav","foo.orc"]);
  csound.rewind_score(cs);
  foreach(ev;generate_events()) {
    csound.score_event(cs,`i`,ev);
  }
  t = 0;
  while(t

>>> (Now I'm going to do shameless promotion of AlgoScore, again... :)

Great, but Im on windows.... hence i dont need / can't use the Jack
Transport business.

Why not just compile the graphics & .sco creation capabilities therefore &
call it a Windows partial release? i.e with no audio engine / real time
transport capabilities whatsoever?

that's the component of it that's probably windows compatible after all... &
it's also the part that happens to interest me, as it will bolt on to my
existing python based environment (basically a .txt based tracker that batch
process audio / midi output using csound...)

I can see the cross over - that's why im interested! ; ) 

but i dont want your bathwater, just your attractive, shiny, clean vector
graphics baby... ; )

Nasal did interest me also, i'll investigate it further but if you can link
me to any info as to how i can get started with it that would be great. Does
it run on windows?

(my next computer may be a mac, but im not sure when that will be, & after
being on windows for the last 5 years & accumulated hoards of software
(cough cough) it doesn't exactly feel like moving forward... more like back
to square one....)

I guess this is where i totally agree re: peoples self / creatively driven
development work that each to their own. When I bang on about Parseval for
example (my project) it's not because i expect people to adopt it lock stock
& barrel, but there may be some element of it that's particularly novel,
neat, or attractive, so great, gut it & use the bit you need!

& i guess that's what i'm unceremoniously proposing i'd like to try with
algoscore. Especially given the platform issues, it seems like a sensible
way forward IMHO.

but don't be decieved into thinking i'm barking orders here. simply
expressing my wshes & feedback for your consideration.

Nasal getting started query stands... gotta rush.

cheers

T.


Jonatan Liljedahl-2 wrote:
> 
> Tim Mortimer wrote:
> ...
>> So cairo today has sparked my interest further, which leads me back to
>> GTK,
>> which leads me to PyGTK, which leads me to this thread....(via a Nabble
>> Search)
>> 
>> & As PyGTK seems to have a reasonably extensive tutorial...
>> 
>> http://www.pygtk.org/pygtk2tutorial/index.html
>> 
>> & also now comes with it's own windows installer (yippee!)
>> 
>> & given GTK is cross platform & used extensively...
>> 
>> I'm wondering if maybe this is where i should try & get started
>> 
>> I'm not using csound api at all at present - essentially all i'd be
>> looking
>> at doing is creating some gui elements that when you hit the "publish"
>> button spit out some csound score (or in my case, &/or parseval score...)
>> the GUI elements themselves would be simply defining trajectories , ftab
>> shapes, or, like AlgoScore(?) used for setting ranges of stochastic
>> parameters (& potentially later publishing displays of realisations
>> thereof...) all prior to score / text data publication (& i could whip up
>> a
>> Parseval score display syntax highlighting front end while i was at
>> it...)
> ...
> 
> (Now I'm going to do shameless promotion of AlgoScore, again... :)
> 
> First I just wanted to say that using AlgoScore for stochastic or
> algorithmic composition is only one of many possibilities, you can also
> do totally non-algorithmic "manual" composition with it.
> 
> Regarding what you describe, it's exactly that sort of things I have in
> mind for AlgoScore. It has gui elements (score objects) for different
> kinds of curves (one that is like linseg, one like jitter, and sine and
> random lfo's, etc..) and also an interface to define and visualize
> ftabs. All these are now using numerical user input, but the plan is to
> add user friendly mouse-editing of stuff like this.
> 
> So in AlgoScore, you can set up trajectories, ftab shapes, algorithmic
> generated events, manually entered events, etc and connect them to a
> csound bus. Then you press a button and AlgoScore will generate a score
> and send it to csound, and csound will render the audio in a background
> process so you can start listening even before it's finished. If you are
> happy with the result you press "export audio" and it's saved as a
> soundfile. Then you export the score to PDF, print it, and put in on the
> wall above your bed. ;)
> 
> (Note that AlgoScore is non-realtime and batch oriented, but it
> visualizes data while you work with it so it's easier to relate to the
> material)
> 
> Regarding custom GUI's, AlgoScore is based on a scripting language
> called Nasal which imho is even more elegant and simple to learn than
> python. It looks a bit like JavaScript. AlgoScore has a built-in nasal
> interpreter, with bindings to among other things csound, gtk and cairo.
> So it's fully possible to create such scripts and run them within
> algoscore. Example (untested):
> 
> ####################
> import("gtk");
> import("csound");
> 
> generate_events = func {
>   ...generate events according to algorithms or user input...
>   return events;
> }
> 
> get_filter_cutoff = func(t) {
>   ...generate or get krate value at time t...
>   return value;
> }
> 
> cs = csound.create(1);
> 
> run_csound = func(length) {
>   csound.compile(cs,["-o","foo.wav","foo.orc"]);
>   csound.rewind_score(cs);
>   foreach(ev;generate_events()) {
>     csound.score_event(cs,`i`,ev);
>   }
>   t = 0;
>   while(t     csound.kchannel_write(cs,"filter_cutoff",get_filter_cutoff(t));
>     csound.perform_ksmps(cs);
>     t = csound.get_score_time(cs);
>   }
>   csound.reset(cs);
> }
> 
> b = gtk.Button("label","press me");
> b.connect("clicked",func run_csound(600));
> w = gtk.Window("title","my app");
> w.add(b);
> w.show_all();
> ####################
> 
> Above file could be saved as "foo.nas" and in the AlgoScore console you
> would type: run_file("foo.nas")
> 
> -- 
> /Jonatan         [ http://kymatica.com ]
> 
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Hi Tim!

It seems jackdmp (multi-core version of jack) should work on windows.
Anyhow, my plan is that algoscore should compile without jack (and thus
without built-in audio/midi playback). GTK is reported to work on
windows, Nasal should also build on windows even though I use some
unix-specific stuff that would need to be replaced...

So, what I'm trying to say is that it's not totally unbelievable that
algoscore will run on windows some day. But it will probably not be
tomorrow... :)

You can find more info on Nasal on http://plausible.org/nasal

The csound bindings could easily be copied from algoscore and added to
the nasal distribution. (it's just one file and a one-liner addition)

Tim Mortimer wrote:
>>>> (Now I'm going to do shameless promotion of AlgoScore, again... :)
> 
> Great, but Im on windows.... hence i dont need / can't use the Jack
> Transport business.
> 
> Why not just compile the graphics & .sco creation capabilities therefore &
> call it a Windows partial release? i.e with no audio engine / real time
> transport capabilities whatsoever?
> 
> that's the component of it that's probably windows compatible after all... &
> it's also the part that happens to interest me, as it will bolt on to my
> existing python based environment (basically a .txt based tracker that batch
> process audio / midi output using csound...)
> 
> I can see the cross over - that's why im interested! ; ) 
> 
> but i dont want your bathwater, just your attractive, shiny, clean vector
> graphics baby... ; )
> 
> Nasal did interest me also, i'll investigate it further but if you can link
> me to any info as to how i can get started with it that would be great. Does
> it run on windows?
> 
> (my next computer may be a mac, but im not sure when that will be, & after
> being on windows for the last 5 years & accumulated hoards of software
> (cough cough) it doesn't exactly feel like moving forward... more like back
> to square one....)
> 
> I guess this is where i totally agree re: peoples self / creatively driven
> development work that each to their own. When I bang on about Parseval for
> example (my project) it's not because i expect people to adopt it lock stock
> & barrel, but there may be some element of it that's particularly novel,
> neat, or attractive, so great, gut it & use the bit you need!
> 
> & i guess that's what i'm unceremoniously proposing i'd like to try with
> algoscore. Especially given the platform issues, it seems like a sensible
> way forward IMHO.
> 
> but don't be decieved into thinking i'm barking orders here. simply
> expressing my wshes & feedback for your consideration.
> 
> Nasal getting started query stands... gotta rush.
> 
> cheers
> 
> T.


-- 
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