Hi folks!

At the user-developer round table we discussed a migration from sourceforge mailing list to Google Groups and also how brutal and serious the mailing list may look like for the beginners. So I have a proposal here: why not to move all dev-related discussion to the GitHub? It has some bonuses like easy commit referencing, person mentions, etc. What do you think?

Best,
E.
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I would prefer to stay away from google groups. If we are getting out of sf, we should look for another email list hosting that works in a similar way. That is my opinion.

Victor Lazzarini
Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy
Maynooth University
Ireland

> On 5 Oct 2015, at 01:12, Eugene Cherny  wrote:
> 
> Hi folks!
> 
> At the user-developer round table we discussed a migration from sourceforge mailing list to Google Groups and also how brutal and serious the mailing list may look like for the beginners. So I have a proposal here: why not to move all dev-related discussion to the GitHub? It has some bonuses like easy commit referencing, person mentions, etc. What do you think?
> 
> Best,
> E.
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I'm OK with Google groups, but I don't think github's issue tracker will serve well as a mailing list. I don't think it was ever designed for that.

on saturday someone said that google groups can be seen as a traditional 
mailing list *plus* some extras, which also means that old-fashioned 
people like me, who are happy with the mailing list format, can read and 
write as before, but who likes, or come in as new csounder, can use the 
forum.

is that correct?  could someone explain this more in detail?

best -
	joachim


On 05/10/15 09:49, Rory Walsh wrote:
> I'm OK with Google groups, but I don't think github's issue tracker will
> serve well as a mailing list. I don't think it was ever designed for that.
>
> On 5 Oct 2015 06:17, "Victor Lazzarini"  > wrote:
>
>     I would prefer to stay away from google groups. If we are getting
>     out of sf, we should look for another email list hosting that works
>     in a similar way. That is my opinion.
>
>     Victor Lazzarini
>     Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy
>     Maynooth University
>     Ireland
>
>      > On 5 Oct 2015, at 01:12, Eugene Cherny      > wrote:
>      >
>      > Hi folks!
>      >
>      > At the user-developer round table we discussed a migration from
>     sourceforge mailing list to Google Groups and also how brutal and
>     serious the mailing list may look like for the beginners. So I have
>     a proposal here: why not to move all dev-related discussion to the
>     GitHub? It has some bonuses like easy commit referencing, person
>     mentions, etc. What do you think?
>      >
>      > Best,
>      > E.
>      >
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>     
>      > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>
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>     
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>
>
>
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>
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I'd just like to add here that I've seen a great many google groups
which are simply unusable due to high levels of spam. I don't know
what it is about them, but the only countermeasure seems to be to have
a closed group which tends to look quite uninviting.

Regards,
 Joel

On 5 October 2015 at 09:03, joachim heintz  wrote:
> on saturday someone said that google groups can be seen as a traditional
> mailing list *plus* some extras, which also means that old-fashioned
> people like me, who are happy with the mailing list format, can read and
> write as before, but who likes, or come in as new csounder, can use the
> forum.
>
> is that correct?  could someone explain this more in detail?
>
> best -
>         joachim
>
>
> On 05/10/15 09:49, Rory Walsh wrote:
>> I'm OK with Google groups, but I don't think github's issue tracker will
>> serve well as a mailing list. I don't think it was ever designed for that.
>>
>> On 5 Oct 2015 06:17, "Victor Lazzarini" > > wrote:
>>
>>     I would prefer to stay away from google groups. If we are getting
>>     out of sf, we should look for another email list hosting that works
>>     in a similar way. That is my opinion.
>>
>>     Victor Lazzarini
>>     Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy
>>     Maynooth University
>>     Ireland
>>
>>      > On 5 Oct 2015, at 01:12, Eugene Cherny >     > wrote:
>>      >
>>      > Hi folks!
>>      >
>>      > At the user-developer round table we discussed a migration from
>>     sourceforge mailing list to Google Groups and also how brutal and
>>     serious the mailing list may look like for the beginners. So I have
>>     a proposal here: why not to move all dev-related discussion to the
>>     GitHub? It has some bonuses like easy commit referencing, person
>>     mentions, etc. What do you think?
>>      >
>>      > Best,
>>      > E.
>>      >
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>      > _______________________________________________
>>      > Csound-devel mailing list
>>      > Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>     
>>      > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     Csound-devel mailing list
>>     Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>     
>>     https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>
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I have used Google groups for other things and it does not work as well as
a straightforward mailing list, which is plain and simple. I am strongly against
using it. 

Regards
========================
Dr Victor Lazzarini
Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
Maynooth University,
Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
Tel: 00 353 7086936
Fax: 00 353 1 7086952 

> On 5 Oct 2015, at 09:03, joachim heintz  wrote:
> 
> on saturday someone said that google groups can be seen as a traditional 
> mailing list *plus* some extras, which also means that old-fashioned 
> people like me, who are happy with the mailing list format, can read and 
> write as before, but who likes, or come in as new csounder, can use the 
> forum.
> 
> is that correct?  could someone explain this more in detail?
> 
> best -
> 	joachim
> 
> 
> On 05/10/15 09:49, Rory Walsh wrote:
>> I'm OK with Google groups, but I don't think github's issue tracker will
>> serve well as a mailing list. I don't think it was ever designed for that.
>> 
>> On 5 Oct 2015 06:17, "Victor Lazzarini" > > wrote:
>> 
>>    I would prefer to stay away from google groups. If we are getting
>>    out of sf, we should look for another email list hosting that works
>>    in a similar way. That is my opinion.
>> 
>>    Victor Lazzarini
>>    Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy
>>    Maynooth University
>>    Ireland
>> 
>>> On 5 Oct 2015, at 01:12, Eugene Cherny >    > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi folks!
>>> 
>>> At the user-developer round table we discussed a migration from
>>    sourceforge mailing list to Google Groups and also how brutal and
>>    serious the mailing list may look like for the beginners. So I have
>>    a proposal here: why not to move all dev-related discussion to the
>>    GitHub? It has some bonuses like easy commit referencing, person
>>    mentions, etc. What do you think?
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> E.
>>> 
>>    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>    
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>> 
>>    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>    Csound-devel mailing list
>>    Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>    
>>    https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>> 
> 
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On 05/10/2015 06:17, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
> I would prefer to stay away from google groups. If we are getting out of sf, we should look for another email list hosting that works in a similar way. That is my opinion.
I second that.

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+1

On Mon, 5 Oct 2015, Peiman Khosravi wrote:

>
>
> On 05/10/2015 06:17, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>> I would prefer to stay away from google groups. If we are getting out of sf, we should look for another email list hosting that works in a similar way. That is my opinion.
> I second that.
>
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>

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> On 05/10/2015 06:17, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>> I would prefer to stay away from google groups. If we are getting out of sf, we should look for another email list hosting that works in a similar way. That is my opinion.
> I second that.

+1

Stef


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We discussed this offline some months ago for some vaklue of We), and what 
emerged was a replacement based in auniversity with at least one developer 
having control/influence.  Anyone volunteering?   I no longer have any 
position in Bathso it was good to move fron UoBath for the users' list.
==John


On Mon, 5 Oct 2015, Stéphane Rollandin wrote:

>> On 05/10/2015 06:17, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>> I would prefer to stay away from google groups. If we are getting out of sf, we should look for another email list hosting that works in a similar way. That is my opinion.
>> I second that.
>
> +1
>
> Stef
>
>
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sounds like a very good idea/model to me.

i had a look how the pd forum is set up, but did not really get it.  do 
you, rory, or do you know other ways of hosting such a forum?

	joachim


On 05/10/15 12:02, Rory Walsh wrote:
> I believe one of the main reasons why google groups was floated as an
> idea is that users can easily browse
>   the archive without having to dodge pop-ups and redirects to other
> pages as happens with the nabble page. It's quite a simple decision. The
> current system, while perfectly adequate for all of us, who are already
> subscribed to it, is not an attractive system for new users. Pure Data
> operates both a forum http://forum.pdpatchrepo.info/ and a mailing list.
> Perhaps we could try the same. Stick with the mailing list, but also
> create a user friendly place for newbies to post questions, without
> having to sign up for emails?
>
> On 5 October 2015 at 10:39, Peiman Khosravi  > wrote:
>
>
>
>     On 05/10/2015 06:17, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>     > I would prefer to stay away from google groups. If we are getting out of sf, we should look for another email list hosting that works in a similar way. That is my opinion.
>     I second that.
>
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>
>
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I've used different online forums for Cabbage. I have a few ideas. Let me look into it.  

On 5 October 2015 at 20:28, joachim heintz <jh@joachimheintz.de> wrote:

sounds like a very good idea/model to me.

i had a look how the pd forum is set up, but did not really get it.  do
you, rory, or do you know other ways of hosting such a forum?

        joachim


On 05/10/15 12:02, Rory Walsh wrote:
> I believe one of the main reasons why google groups was floated as an
> idea is that users can easily browse
>   the archive without having to dodge pop-ups and redirects to other
> pages as happens with the nabble page. It's quite a simple decision. The
> current system, while perfectly adequate for all of us, who are already
> subscribed to it, is not an attractive system for new users. Pure Data
> operates both a forum http://forum.pdpatchrepo.info/ and a mailing list.
> Perhaps we could try the same. Stick with the mailing list, but also
> create a user friendly place for newbies to post questions, without
> having to sign up for emails?
>
> On 5 October 2015 at 10:39, Peiman Khosravi <peimankhosravi@gmail.com
> <mailto:peimankhosravi@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
>
>     On 05/10/2015 06:17, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>     > I would prefer to stay away from google groups. If we are getting out of sf, we should look for another email list hosting that works in a similar way. That is my opinion.
>     I second that.
>
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>
>
>
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I was recently pointed at https://groups.io , you might want to investigate it.

On 5 October 2015 at 16:35, <pete.goodeve@computer.org> wrote:

On Mon, Oct 05, 2015 at 06:17:09AM +0100, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
> I would prefer to stay away from google groups. If we are getting out of sf, we should look for another email list hosting that works in a similar way. That is my opinion.

In case it's any help, the Haiku folks use FreeLists ( https://www.freelists.org/ )
 -- for several lists (user, developer and so on) -- and it seems to work well.
It keeps an archive of posts of course, but doesn't have any attached forum
facility -- the main Haiku website hosts the forums

        -- (the other) Pete --

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--

Saludos,
Felipe Sateler

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