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[Cs-dev] problem with turnoff and setksmps..

Date2014-03-19 13:02
FromRory Walsh
Subject[Cs-dev] problem with turnoff and setksmps..
AttachmentsNone  None  
The following doesn't work as expected. It should continuously turn on and off instr2. If I comment out "setksmps 1" in instr2 it does run as expected. What's more is it will kill whatever audio is running as soon as it tries to turn on instr2 again. 

<CsoundSynthesizer>
<CsOptions>
-g -+rtaudio=jack -odac
</CsOptions>
<CsInstruments>
ksmps = 32
nchnls = 2

;trigger instr 2 to come and off every half second
instr 1
giFt ftgen 1, 0, 2, 2, 0, 1 ;
gkPlayStop oscil 1, .5, 1; toggle between 0 and 1
ktrig    trigger    gkPlayStop,0.5,0        
schedkwhen    ktrig,0,0,2,0,-1
endin 
 
;comment out setksmps, otherwise problems will arise
instr 2
if gkPlayStop==0 then
   printks "Turning off instr 2\n", 0.1
   turnoff
endif
prints "Started\n"
setksmps  1
endin

</CsInstruments>
<CsScore>
i1 0 1000
</CsScore>
</CsoundSynthesizer>

There is no such problem when using a UDO with "setksmps 1".

Rory.



Date2014-03-19 14:13
FromVictor Lazzarini
SubjectRe: [Cs-dev] problem with turnoff and setksmps..
unrelated to this, but setksmps should always be the first statement in the instrument.

========================
Dr Victor Lazzarini
Senior Lecturer
NUI Maynooth, Ireland
victor dot lazzarini at nuim dot ie




On 19 Mar 2014, at 13:02, Rory Walsh  wrote:

> The following doesn't work as expected. It should continuously turn on and off instr2. If I comment out "setksmps 1" in instr2 it does run as expected. What's more is it will kill whatever audio is running as soon as it tries to turn on instr2 again.  
> 
> 
> 
> -g -+rtaudio=jack -odac
> 
> 
> ksmps = 32
> nchnls = 2
> 
> ;trigger instr 2 to come and off every half second
> instr 1
> giFt ftgen 1, 0, 2, 2, 0, 1 ;
> gkPlayStop oscil 1, .5, 1; toggle between 0 and 1
> ktrig    trigger    gkPlayStop,0.5,0         
> schedkwhen    ktrig,0,0,2,0,-1
> endin 
>  
> ;comment out setksmps, otherwise problems will arise
> instr 2
> if gkPlayStop==0 then
>    printks "Turning off instr 2\n", 0.1
>    turnoff
> endif
> prints "Started\n"
> setksmps  1
> endin
> 
> 
> 
> i1 0 1000
> 
> 
> 
> There is no such problem when using a UDO with "setksmps 1". 
> 
> Rory.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their
> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech_______________________________________________
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> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
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Date2014-03-19 15:03
FromSteven Yi
SubjectRe: [Cs-dev] problem with turnoff and setksmps..
I just tried this with CS5 and CS6. With CS6 I get a segfault. With
CS6 I get weird behavior. I looked though and found that the
schedkwhen line is using -1 for duration of note.  If I change that to
1, I get period lines such as:

Started
  rtevent:   T  3.001 TT  3.001 M:      0.0      0.0
Started
  rtevent:   T  5.001 TT  5.001 M:      0.0      0.0
Started
  rtevent:   T  7.001 TT  7.001 M:      0.0      0.0

but I do not get any stops.

Adding:

printks "GKPlayStop %f\n", 0.1, gkPlayStop

to instr 1, I do see the value changing from 0 to 1 and back.

If I put that statement in instr2, I see printouts while gkPlayStop ==
1, then it stops for a while.

If I run with --verbose, I do see notes getting deactivated.



On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 10:13 AM, Victor Lazzarini
 wrote:
> unrelated to this, but setksmps should always be the first statement in the instrument.
>
> ========================
> Dr Victor Lazzarini
> Senior Lecturer
> NUI Maynooth, Ireland
> victor dot lazzarini at nuim dot ie
>
>
>
>
> On 19 Mar 2014, at 13:02, Rory Walsh  wrote:
>
>> The following doesn't work as expected. It should continuously turn on and off instr2. If I comment out "setksmps 1" in instr2 it does run as expected. What's more is it will kill whatever audio is running as soon as it tries to turn on instr2 again.
>>
>> 
>> 
>> -g -+rtaudio=jack -odac
>> 
>> 
>> ksmps = 32
>> nchnls = 2
>>
>> ;trigger instr 2 to come and off every half second
>> instr 1
>> giFt ftgen 1, 0, 2, 2, 0, 1 ;
>> gkPlayStop oscil 1, .5, 1; toggle between 0 and 1
>> ktrig    trigger    gkPlayStop,0.5,0
>> schedkwhen    ktrig,0,0,2,0,-1
>> endin
>>
>> ;comment out setksmps, otherwise problems will arise
>> instr 2
>> if gkPlayStop==0 then
>>    printks "Turning off instr 2\n", 0.1
>>    turnoff
>> endif
>> prints "Started\n"
>> setksmps  1
>> endin
>>
>> 
>> 
>> i1 0 1000
>> 
>> 
>>
>> There is no such problem when using a UDO with "setksmps 1".
>>
>> Rory.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
>> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their
>> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
>> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech_______________________________________________
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their
> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech
> _______________________________________________
> Csound-devel mailing list
> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
"Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their
applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech
_______________________________________________
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Date2014-03-19 15:15
FromVictor Lazzarini
SubjectRe: [Cs-dev] problem with turnoff and setksmps..
How did you test this with CS5? setksmps for instruments is only in CS6?

========================
Dr Victor Lazzarini
Senior Lecturer
NUI Maynooth, Ireland
victor dot lazzarini at nuim dot ie




On 19 Mar 2014, at 15:03, Steven Yi  wrote:

> I just tried this with CS5 and CS6. With CS6 I get a segfault. With
> CS6 I get weird behavior. I looked though and found that the
> schedkwhen line is using -1 for duration of note.  If I change that to
> 1, I get period lines such as:
> 
> Started
>  rtevent:   T  3.001 TT  3.001 M:      0.0      0.0
> Started
>  rtevent:   T  5.001 TT  5.001 M:      0.0      0.0
> Started
>  rtevent:   T  7.001 TT  7.001 M:      0.0      0.0
> 
> but I do not get any stops.
> 
> Adding:
> 
> printks "GKPlayStop %f\n", 0.1, gkPlayStop
> 
> to instr 1, I do see the value changing from 0 to 1 and back.
> 
> If I put that statement in instr2, I see printouts while gkPlayStop ==
> 1, then it stops for a while.
> 
> If I run with --verbose, I do see notes getting deactivated.
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 10:13 AM, Victor Lazzarini
>  wrote:
>> unrelated to this, but setksmps should always be the first statement in the instrument.
>> 
>> ========================
>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>> Senior Lecturer
>> NUI Maynooth, Ireland
>> victor dot lazzarini at nuim dot ie
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 19 Mar 2014, at 13:02, Rory Walsh  wrote:
>> 
>>> The following doesn't work as expected. It should continuously turn on and off instr2. If I comment out "setksmps 1" in instr2 it does run as expected. What's more is it will kill whatever audio is running as soon as it tries to turn on instr2 again.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -g -+rtaudio=jack -odac
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ksmps = 32
>>> nchnls = 2
>>> 
>>> ;trigger instr 2 to come and off every half second
>>> instr 1
>>> giFt ftgen 1, 0, 2, 2, 0, 1 ;
>>> gkPlayStop oscil 1, .5, 1; toggle between 0 and 1
>>> ktrig    trigger    gkPlayStop,0.5,0
>>> schedkwhen    ktrig,0,0,2,0,-1
>>> endin
>>> 
>>> ;comment out setksmps, otherwise problems will arise
>>> instr 2
>>> if gkPlayStop==0 then
>>>   printks "Turning off instr 2\n", 0.1
>>>   turnoff
>>> endif
>>> prints "Started\n"
>>> setksmps  1
>>> endin
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> i1 0 1000
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> There is no such problem when using a UDO with "setksmps 1".
>>> 
>>> Rory.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
>>> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their
>>> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
>>> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech_______________________________________________
>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
>> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their
>> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
>> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech
>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their
> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech
> _______________________________________________
> Csound-devel mailing list
> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
"Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their
applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech
_______________________________________________
Csound-devel mailing list
Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net

Date2014-03-19 16:33
FromSteven Yi
SubjectRe: [Cs-dev] problem with turnoff and setksmps..
I just ran it with CS5 and it compiled, started to run, then
segfaulted.  setksmps still has an OENTRY in CS5, so it probably
compiled it fine.  I'm going to guess the segfault came from setksmps
not being a real opcode in CS5.

On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 11:15 AM, Victor Lazzarini
 wrote:
> How did you test this with CS5? setksmps for instruments is only in CS6?
>
> ========================
> Dr Victor Lazzarini
> Senior Lecturer
> NUI Maynooth, Ireland
> victor dot lazzarini at nuim dot ie
>
>
>
>
> On 19 Mar 2014, at 15:03, Steven Yi  wrote:
>
>> I just tried this with CS5 and CS6. With CS6 I get a segfault. With
>> CS6 I get weird behavior. I looked though and found that the
>> schedkwhen line is using -1 for duration of note.  If I change that to
>> 1, I get period lines such as:
>>
>> Started
>>  rtevent:   T  3.001 TT  3.001 M:      0.0      0.0
>> Started
>>  rtevent:   T  5.001 TT  5.001 M:      0.0      0.0
>> Started
>>  rtevent:   T  7.001 TT  7.001 M:      0.0      0.0
>>
>> but I do not get any stops.
>>
>> Adding:
>>
>> printks "GKPlayStop %f\n", 0.1, gkPlayStop
>>
>> to instr 1, I do see the value changing from 0 to 1 and back.
>>
>> If I put that statement in instr2, I see printouts while gkPlayStop ==
>> 1, then it stops for a while.
>>
>> If I run with --verbose, I do see notes getting deactivated.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 10:13 AM, Victor Lazzarini
>>  wrote:
>>> unrelated to this, but setksmps should always be the first statement in the instrument.
>>>
>>> ========================
>>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>>> Senior Lecturer
>>> NUI Maynooth, Ireland
>>> victor dot lazzarini at nuim dot ie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 19 Mar 2014, at 13:02, Rory Walsh  wrote:
>>>
>>>> The following doesn't work as expected. It should continuously turn on and off instr2. If I comment out "setksmps 1" in instr2 it does run as expected. What's more is it will kill whatever audio is running as soon as it tries to turn on instr2 again.
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -g -+rtaudio=jack -odac
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ksmps = 32
>>>> nchnls = 2
>>>>
>>>> ;trigger instr 2 to come and off every half second
>>>> instr 1
>>>> giFt ftgen 1, 0, 2, 2, 0, 1 ;
>>>> gkPlayStop oscil 1, .5, 1; toggle between 0 and 1
>>>> ktrig    trigger    gkPlayStop,0.5,0
>>>> schedkwhen    ktrig,0,0,2,0,-1
>>>> endin
>>>>
>>>> ;comment out setksmps, otherwise problems will arise
>>>> instr 2
>>>> if gkPlayStop==0 then
>>>>   printks "Turning off instr 2\n", 0.1
>>>>   turnoff
>>>> endif
>>>> prints "Started\n"
>>>> setksmps  1
>>>> endin
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> i1 0 1000
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> There is no such problem when using a UDO with "setksmps 1".
>>>>
>>>> Rory.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
>>>> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their
>>>> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
>>>> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech_______________________________________________
>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
>>> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their
>>> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
>>> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
>> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their
>> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
>> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech
>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their
> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech
> _______________________________________________
> Csound-devel mailing list
> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
"Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their
applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech
_______________________________________________
Csound-devel mailing list
Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net

Date2014-03-19 19:10
FromVictor Lazzarini
SubjectRe: [Cs-dev] problem with turnoff and setksmps..
setksmps would not work on instruments in Csound5, only UDOs (there is no code to support it there),
anything can happen...
========================
Dr Victor Lazzarini
Senior Lecturer
NUI Maynooth, Ireland
victor dot lazzarini at nuim dot ie




On 19 Mar 2014, at 16:33, Steven Yi  wrote:

> I just ran it with CS5 and it compiled, started to run, then
> segfaulted.  setksmps still has an OENTRY in CS5, so it probably
> compiled it fine.  I'm going to guess the segfault came from setksmps
> not being a real opcode in CS5.
> 
> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 11:15 AM, Victor Lazzarini
>  wrote:
>> How did you test this with CS5? setksmps for instruments is only in CS6?
>> 
>> ========================
>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>> Senior Lecturer
>> NUI Maynooth, Ireland
>> victor dot lazzarini at nuim dot ie
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 19 Mar 2014, at 15:03, Steven Yi  wrote:
>> 
>>> I just tried this with CS5 and CS6. With CS6 I get a segfault. With
>>> CS6 I get weird behavior. I looked though and found that the
>>> schedkwhen line is using -1 for duration of note.  If I change that to
>>> 1, I get period lines such as:
>>> 
>>> Started
>>> rtevent:   T  3.001 TT  3.001 M:      0.0      0.0
>>> Started
>>> rtevent:   T  5.001 TT  5.001 M:      0.0      0.0
>>> Started
>>> rtevent:   T  7.001 TT  7.001 M:      0.0      0.0
>>> 
>>> but I do not get any stops.
>>> 
>>> Adding:
>>> 
>>> printks "GKPlayStop %f\n", 0.1, gkPlayStop
>>> 
>>> to instr 1, I do see the value changing from 0 to 1 and back.
>>> 
>>> If I put that statement in instr2, I see printouts while gkPlayStop ==
>>> 1, then it stops for a while.
>>> 
>>> If I run with --verbose, I do see notes getting deactivated.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 10:13 AM, Victor Lazzarini
>>>  wrote:
>>>> unrelated to this, but setksmps should always be the first statement in the instrument.
>>>> 
>>>> ========================
>>>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>>>> Senior Lecturer
>>>> NUI Maynooth, Ireland
>>>> victor dot lazzarini at nuim dot ie
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 19 Mar 2014, at 13:02, Rory Walsh  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> The following doesn't work as expected. It should continuously turn on and off instr2. If I comment out "setksmps 1" in instr2 it does run as expected. What's more is it will kill whatever audio is running as soon as it tries to turn on instr2 again.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -g -+rtaudio=jack -odac
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ksmps = 32
>>>>> nchnls = 2
>>>>> 
>>>>> ;trigger instr 2 to come and off every half second
>>>>> instr 1
>>>>> giFt ftgen 1, 0, 2, 2, 0, 1 ;
>>>>> gkPlayStop oscil 1, .5, 1; toggle between 0 and 1
>>>>> ktrig    trigger    gkPlayStop,0.5,0
>>>>> schedkwhen    ktrig,0,0,2,0,-1
>>>>> endin
>>>>> 
>>>>> ;comment out setksmps, otherwise problems will arise
>>>>> instr 2
>>>>> if gkPlayStop==0 then
>>>>>  printks "Turning off instr 2\n", 0.1
>>>>>  turnoff
>>>>> endif
>>>>> prints "Started\n"
>>>>> setksmps  1
>>>>> endin
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> i1 0 1000
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> There is no such problem when using a UDO with "setksmps 1".
>>>>> 
>>>>> Rory.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
>>>>> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their
>>>>> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
>>>>> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
>>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech_______________________________________________
>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
>>>> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their
>>>> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
>>>> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
>>> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their
>>> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
>>> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
>> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their
>> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
>> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech
>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their
> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech
> _______________________________________________
> Csound-devel mailing list
> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
"Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their
applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech
_______________________________________________
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