[Cs-dev] What do you guys make of this?

[Cs-dev] What do you guys make of this?

Date	2014-03-24 20:12
From	Rory Walsh
Subject	[Cs-dev] What do you guys make of this?
	Anyone? Am I violating the VST SDK? https://github.com/cabbageaudio/cabbage/issues/5 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech _______________________________________________ Csound-devel mailing list Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net

Date	2014-03-24 20:23
From	Victor Lazzarini
Subject	Re: [Cs-dev] What do you guys make of this?
	Is that your code or JUCE's ? On 24 Mar 2014, at 20:12, Rory Walsh wrote: > Anyone? Am I violating the VST SDK? > https://github.com/cabbageaudio/cabbage/issues/5 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book > "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their > applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, > this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech > _______________________________________________ > Csound-devel mailing list > Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel Dr Victor Lazzarini Senior Lecturer Dept. of Music NUI Maynooth Ireland tel.: +353 1 708 3545 Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech _______________________________________________ Csound-devel mailing list Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net

Date	2014-03-24 20:27
From	Rory Walsh
Subject	Re: [Cs-dev] What do you guys make of this?
	It's from the JUCE headers, but JUCE is GPL-ed too, at least in the way I use it. I'll be ignoring this comment I think :) On 24 March 2014 20:23, Victor Lazzarini wrote: > Is that your code or JUCE's ? > On 24 Mar 2014, at 20:12, Rory Walsh wrote: > >> Anyone? Am I violating the VST SDK? >> https://github.com/cabbageaudio/cabbage/issues/5 >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book >> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their >> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, >> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech >> _______________________________________________ >> Csound-devel mailing list >> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel > > Dr Victor Lazzarini > Senior Lecturer > Dept. of Music > NUI Maynooth Ireland > tel.: +353 1 708 3545 > Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book > "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their > applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, > this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech > _______________________________________________ > Csound-devel mailing list > Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech _______________________________________________ Csound-devel mailing list Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net

Date	2014-03-24 20:30
From	Victor Lazzarini
Subject	Re: [Cs-dev] What do you guys make of this?
	Maybe you shouldn't carry the JUCE headers in your repo, push the can down the line. On 24 Mar 2014, at 20:27, Rory Walsh wrote: > It's from the JUCE headers, but JUCE is GPL-ed too, at least in the > way I use it. I'll be ignoring this comment I think :) > > On 24 March 2014 20:23, Victor Lazzarini wrote: >> Is that your code or JUCE's ? >> On 24 Mar 2014, at 20:12, Rory Walsh wrote: >> >>> Anyone? Am I violating the VST SDK? >>> https://github.com/cabbageaudio/cabbage/issues/5 >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book >>> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their >>> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, >>> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Csound-devel mailing list >>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel >> >> Dr Victor Lazzarini >> Senior Lecturer >> Dept. of Music >> NUI Maynooth Ireland >> tel.: +353 1 708 3545 >> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book >> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their >> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, >> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech >> _______________________________________________ >> Csound-devel mailing list >> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book > "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their > applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, > this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech > _______________________________________________ > Csound-devel mailing list > Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel Dr Victor Lazzarini Senior Lecturer Dept. of Music NUI Maynooth Ireland tel.: +353 1 708 3545 Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech _______________________________________________ Csound-devel mailing list Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net

Date	2014-03-24 20:35
From	Rory Walsh
Subject	Re: [Cs-dev] What do you guys make of this?
	That's a good point. Let's see if I can manage to get a cease and desist first! On 24 March 2014 20:30, Victor Lazzarini wrote: > Maybe you shouldn't carry the JUCE headers in your repo, push the can down the line. > On 24 Mar 2014, at 20:27, Rory Walsh wrote: > >> It's from the JUCE headers, but JUCE is GPL-ed too, at least in the >> way I use it. I'll be ignoring this comment I think :) >> >> On 24 March 2014 20:23, Victor Lazzarini wrote: >>> Is that your code or JUCE's ? >>> On 24 Mar 2014, at 20:12, Rory Walsh wrote: >>> >>>> Anyone? Am I violating the VST SDK? >>>> https://github.com/cabbageaudio/cabbage/issues/5 >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book >>>> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their >>>> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, >>>> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! >>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Csound-devel mailing list >>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel >>> >>> Dr Victor Lazzarini >>> Senior Lecturer >>> Dept. of Music >>> NUI Maynooth Ireland >>> tel.: +353 1 708 3545 >>> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book >>> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their >>> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, >>> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Csound-devel mailing list >>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book >> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their >> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, >> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech >> _______________________________________________ >> Csound-devel mailing list >> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel > > Dr Victor Lazzarini > Senior Lecturer > Dept. of Music > NUI Maynooth Ireland > tel.: +353 1 708 3545 > Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book > "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their > applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, > this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech > _______________________________________________ > Csound-devel mailing list > Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech _______________________________________________ Csound-devel mailing list Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net

Date	2014-03-24 21:11
From	Victor Lazzarini
Subject	Re: [Cs-dev] What do you guys make of this?
	I think it's a good thing to keep dependencies out of your own code, if at all possible. For instance, we don't really carry the libsndfile headers in Csound. On 24 Mar 2014, at 20:35, Rory Walsh wrote: > That's a good point. Let's see if I can manage to get a cease and desist first! > > On 24 March 2014 20:30, Victor Lazzarini wrote: >> Maybe you shouldn't carry the JUCE headers in your repo, push the can down the line. >> On 24 Mar 2014, at 20:27, Rory Walsh wrote: >> >>> It's from the JUCE headers, but JUCE is GPL-ed too, at least in the >>> way I use it. I'll be ignoring this comment I think :) >>> >>> On 24 March 2014 20:23, Victor Lazzarini wrote: >>>> Is that your code or JUCE's ? >>>> On 24 Mar 2014, at 20:12, Rory Walsh wrote: >>>> >>>>> Anyone? Am I violating the VST SDK? >>>>> https://github.com/cabbageaudio/cabbage/issues/5 >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book >>>>> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their >>>>> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, >>>>> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! >>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Csound-devel mailing list >>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel >>>> >>>> Dr Victor Lazzarini >>>> Senior Lecturer >>>> Dept. of Music >>>> NUI Maynooth Ireland >>>> tel.: +353 1 708 3545 >>>> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book >>>> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their >>>> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, >>>> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! >>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Csound-devel mailing list >>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book >>> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their >>> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, >>> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Csound-devel mailing list >>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel >> >> Dr Victor Lazzarini >> Senior Lecturer >> Dept. of Music >> NUI Maynooth Ireland >> tel.: +353 1 708 3545 >> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book >> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their >> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, >> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech >> _______________________________________________ >> Csound-devel mailing list >> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book > "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their > applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, > this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech > _______________________________________________ > Csound-devel mailing list > Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel Dr Victor Lazzarini Senior Lecturer Dept. of Music NUI Maynooth Ireland tel.: +353 1 708 3545 Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech _______________________________________________ Csound-devel mailing list Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net

Date	2014-03-24 21:15
From	Michael Gogins
Subject	Re: [Cs-dev] What do you guys make of this?
Attachments	None None
	I have avoided doing open source projects with the VST SDK for this reason. That is why CsoundVST binaries are not hosted on sourceForge (though the code for CsoundVST is in the Csound repository). I host the CsoundVST biinaries myself on tumblr and DropBox. You should certainly not be using GPL. You should be using the most permissive possible open source license. Then you can distribute the Cabbage binaries, and you can distribute the Cabbage sources except for the VST SDK. You will need to see what your repository's legal requirements are. You may need to host the binaries yourself, as I do (it's easy enough to do on DropBox). Various people have talked about, or actually have, reverse engineering the VST protocol to obtain a "clean room" substitute for the VST SDK. More or less functional versions exist, though I am not sure how actively they are being developed. Google for fst, fsthost, festige. The VST license prohibits any attempt to reverse engineer the VST protocol. I'm not sure that this prohibition would be legally binding. NOTE: I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice. But I am aware that software law permits "clean room" reverse engineering. If you can figure out what's happening in the black box, you can write your own software to imitate it.As I understand it that's because software copyrights are on expressions of ideas, not the ideas thmselves. If you never see the expression of the idea, you are good. Protocols or interfaces are not nearly so easy to legally protect by copyright as the actual code. If you have seen the VST SDK source code you would not be able to legally do such reverse engineering. If somebody else has done this reverse engineering, then I don't see why you couldn't use what they had done. On the other hand, why take this particular obnoxious test? Why not just distribute your software as binaries and as source with the proviso that the user will have to legally obtain the VST SDK to complete the sources? That seems to be what JUCE does. It's a pity that fsthost itself is GPL. I have bugged Steinberg, and urged others to bug Steinberg, to re-license the VST SDK as open source (not free software, open source), to no avail. Best, Mike ----------------------------------------------------- Michael Gogins Irreducible Productions http://michaelgogins.tumblr.com Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 4:35 PM, Rory Walsh <rorywalsh@ear.ie> wrote: That's a good point. Let's see if I can manage to get a cease and desist first! On 24 March 2014 20:30, Victor Lazzarini <Victor.Lazzarini@nuim.ie> wrote: > Maybe you shouldn't carry the JUCE headers in your repo, push the can down the line. > On 24 Mar 2014, at 20:27, Rory Walsh wrote: > >> It's from the JUCE headers, but JUCE is GPL-ed too, at least in the >> way I use it. I'll be ignoring this comment I think :) >> >> On 24 March 2014 20:23, Victor Lazzarini <Victor.Lazzarini@nuim.ie> wrote: >>> Is that your code or JUCE's ? >>> On 24 Mar 2014, at 20:12, Rory Walsh wrote: >>> >>>> Anyone? Am I violating the VST SDK? >>>> https://github.com/cabbageaudio/cabbage/issues/5 >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book >>>> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their >>>> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, >>>> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! >>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Csound-devel mailing list >>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel >>> >>> Dr Victor Lazzarini >>> Senior Lecturer >>> Dept. of Music >>> NUI Maynooth Ireland >>> tel.: +353 1 708 3545 >>> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book >>> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their >>> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, >>> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Csound-devel mailing list >>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book >> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their >> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, >> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech >> _______________________________________________ >> Csound-devel mailing list >> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel > > Dr Victor Lazzarini > Senior Lecturer > Dept. of Music > NUI Maynooth Ireland > tel.: +353 1 708 3545 > Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book > "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their > applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, > this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech > _______________________________________________ > Csound-devel mailing list > Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech _______________________________________________ Csound-devel mailing list Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel

Date	2014-03-24 21:25
From	Victor Lazzarini
Subject	Re: [Cs-dev] What do you guys make of this?
	He is bound by the GPL by JUCE. On 24 Mar 2014, at 21:15, Michael Gogins wrote: > You should certainly not be using GPL. You should be using the most permissive possible open source license. Then you can distribute the Cabbage binaries, and you can distribute the Cabbage sources except for the VST SDK. You will need to see what your repository's legal requirements are. You may need to host the binaries yourself, as I do (it's easy enough to do on DropBox). Dr Victor Lazzarini Senior Lecturer Dept. of Music NUI Maynooth Ireland tel.: +353 1 708 3545 Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech _______________________________________________ Csound-devel mailing list Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net

Date	2014-03-24 21:43
From	Michael Gogins
Subject	Re: [Cs-dev] What do you guys make of this?
Attachments	None None
	Yes of course. .. On Mar 24, 2014 5:25 PM, "Victor Lazzarini" <Victor.Lazzarini@nuim.ie> wrote: He is bound by the GPL by JUCE. On 24 Mar 2014, at 21:15, Michael Gogins wrote: > You should certainly not be using GPL. You should be using the most permissive possible open source license. Then you can distribute the Cabbage binaries, and you can distribute the Cabbage sources except for the VST SDK. You will need to see what your repository's legal requirements are. You may need to host the binaries yourself, as I do (it's easy enough to do on DropBox). Dr Victor Lazzarini Senior Lecturer Dept. of Music NUI Maynooth Ireland tel.: +353 1 708 3545 Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech _______________________________________________ Csound-devel mailing list Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel