hello,

i'm looking to switching over to cs6 but i am finding that, in my larger csound projects, cs6 runs about 25% slower than cs5 on my machine (osx 10.7 doubles built from git yesterday).  i run csound non-realtime.

i'm using lots of strings and lots of python/pycall*.  assuming that cs6 should be the same speed as cs5 (if not faster), how might i go about profiling cpu usage in detail?  are there any build options that cs5 has turned off that cs6 has on (like multicore for instance)?  the csd is complex and pulling it apart to test individual components would be rather difficult.

i have noticed the difference is compile time between cs6 and cs5 for a while now (months), so i would doubt that it is due to any recent changes in git.

thanks,

--  ben

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Yes, I think Csound 6 is a bit slower per thread than Csound 5. To deal with that, I expect to put in some time profiling and optimizing the code, as I think the other developers may also do or have done. This may or may not produce speedups.

But there already is a way that some Csound pieces can benefit from big speedups right now, given certain pre-conditions. First, your computer has to have at least 2 cores. Second, your piece has to have code that will speed up if run on multiple cores. Usually but not always, that means multiple instances of the same instrument running at the same time.

If your pieces meet these conditions, then you will need to run at ksmps 20 to 100 or so. I haven't tried that with --sample-accurate, but I will be trying that. 

In such cases, on both 2 and 4 core machines, I've measured speedups of up to 2 times. That would make Csound 6 distinctly faster than Csound 5. 

I routinely run multi-threaded, now. I think that the people involved who implemented this (my role was pushing for the idea, monkeying with a simple and ineffective earlier implementation, and profiling code developed by John ffitch and Chris Wilson and perhaps others, Steven Yi, Victor Lazzarini, did you work on ParCS?) deserve recognition, as this puts Csound at the head of its class.

Expect to have to do some experimenting if you want this to work for you.

Hope this helps,

Mike

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 6:39 AM, Ben Hackbarth <hackbarth@gmail.com> wrote:

hello,

i'm looking to switching over to cs6 but i am finding that, in my larger csound projects, cs6 runs about 25% slower than cs5 on my machine (osx 10.7 doubles built from git yesterday).  i run csound non-realtime.

i'm using lots of strings and lots of python/pycall*.  assuming that cs6 should be the same speed as cs5 (if not faster), how might i go about profiling cpu usage in detail?  are there any build options that cs5 has turned off that cs6 has on (like multicore for instance)?  the csd is complex and pulling it apart to test individual components would be rather difficult.

i have noticed the difference is compile time between cs6 and cs5 for a while now (months), so i would doubt that it is due to any recent changes in git.

thanks,

--  ben

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dear michael,

thanks for your reponse.  i starting building csound6 explicitly to take advantage of multithreading and the associates speedups.  i am most grateful that csound development has been moving in this direction.

i assume that, by default, cmake builds with multicore on?  and that one must only invoke "-j ncores" at the commandline to use it?  my work meets ideal muticore conditions (a single instru, many overlapping instances, a 4 core machine, etc.) but i do not seem to see any change in rendering times.

perhaps i'm doing something wrong when building?

--  ben

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 1:01 PM, Michael Gogins <michael.gogins@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes, I think Csound 6 is a bit slower per thread than Csound 5. To deal with that, I expect to put in some time profiling and optimizing the code, as I think the other developers may also do or have done. This may or may not produce speedups.

But there already is a way that some Csound pieces can benefit from big speedups right now, given certain pre-conditions. First, your computer has to have at least 2 cores. Second, your piece has to have code that will speed up if run on multiple cores. Usually but not always, that means multiple instances of the same instrument running at the same time.

If your pieces meet these conditions, then you will need to run at ksmps 20 to 100 or so. I haven't tried that with --sample-accurate, but I will be trying that. 

In such cases, on both 2 and 4 core machines, I've measured speedups of up to 2 times. That would make Csound 6 distinctly faster than Csound 5. 

I routinely run multi-threaded, now. I think that the people involved who implemented this (my role was pushing for the idea, monkeying with a simple and ineffective earlier implementation, and profiling code developed by John ffitch and Chris Wilson and perhaps others, Steven Yi, Victor Lazzarini, did you work on ParCS?) deserve recognition, as this puts Csound at the head of its class.

Expect to have to do some experimenting if you want this to work for you.

Hope this helps,

Mike

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 6:39 AM, Ben Hackbarth <hackbarth@gmail.com> wrote:

hello,

i'm looking to switching over to cs6 but i am finding that, in my larger csound projects, cs6 runs about 25% slower than cs5 on my machine (osx 10.7 doubles built from git yesterday).  i run csound non-realtime.

i'm using lots of strings and lots of python/pycall*.  assuming that cs6 should be the same speed as cs5 (if not faster), how might i go about profiling cpu usage in detail?  are there any build options that cs5 has turned off that cs6 has on (like multicore for instance)?  the csd is complex and pulling it apart to test individual components would be rather difficult.

i have noticed the difference is compile time between cs6 and cs5 for a while now (months), so i would doubt that it is due to any recent changes in git.

thanks,

--  ben

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Have you used the -j <threads> flag?

On 25 May 2013, at 15:54, Ben Hackbarth wrote:

dear michael,

thanks for your reponse.  i starting building csound6 explicitly to take advantage of multithreading and the associates speedups.  i am most grateful that csound development has been moving in this direction.

i assume that, by default, cmake builds with multicore on?  and that one must only invoke "-j ncores" at the commandline to use it?  my work meets ideal muticore conditions (a single instru, many overlapping instances, a 4 core machine, etc.) but i do not seem to see any change in rendering times.

perhaps i'm doing something wrong when building?

--  ben

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 1:01 PM, Michael Gogins <michael.gogins@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes, I think Csound 6 is a bit slower per thread than Csound 5. To deal with that, I expect to put in some time profiling and optimizing the code, as I think the other developers may also do or have done. This may or may not produce speedups.

But there already is a way that some Csound pieces can benefit from big speedups right now, given certain pre-conditions. First, your computer has to have at least 2 cores. Second, your piece has to have code that will speed up if run on multiple cores. Usually but not always, that means multiple instances of the same instrument running at the same time.

If your pieces meet these conditions, then you will need to run at ksmps 20 to 100 or so. I haven't tried that with --sample-accurate, but I will be trying that. 

In such cases, on both 2 and 4 core machines, I've measured speedups of up to 2 times. That would make Csound 6 distinctly faster than Csound 5. 

I routinely run multi-threaded, now. I think that the people involved who implemented this (my role was pushing for the idea, monkeying with a simple and ineffective earlier implementation, and profiling code developed by John ffitch and Chris Wilson and perhaps others, Steven Yi, Victor Lazzarini, did you work on ParCS?) deserve recognition, as this puts Csound at the head of its class.

Expect to have to do some experimenting if you want this to work for you.

Hope this helps,

Mike

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 6:39 AM, Ben Hackbarth <hackbarth@gmail.com> wrote:

hello,

i'm looking to switching over to cs6 but i am finding that, in my larger csound projects, cs6 runs about 25% slower than cs5 on my machine (osx 10.7 doubles built from git yesterday).  i run csound non-realtime.

i'm using lots of strings and lots of python/pycall*.  assuming that cs6 should be the same speed as cs5 (if not faster), how might i go about profiling cpu usage in detail?  are there any build options that cs5 has turned off that cs6 has on (like multicore for instance)?  the csd is complex and pulling it apart to test individual components would be rather difficult.

i have noticed the difference is compile time between cs6 and cs5 for a while now (months), so i would doubt that it is due to any recent changes in git.

thanks,

--  ben

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com

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NUI Maynooth Ireland

tel.: +353 1 708 3545

Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie

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hey guys,

i have not set BUILD_MULTI_CORE in my cmake config, so that would seem to be the most likely culprit :)

i'll let you know how things fare when i recompile...

--  ben

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 6:32 PM, Victor Lazzarini <Victor.Lazzarini@nuim.ie> wrote:

Have you used the -j <threads> flag?

On 25 May 2013, at 15:54, Ben Hackbarth wrote:

dear michael,

thanks for your reponse.  i starting building csound6 explicitly to take advantage of multithreading and the associates speedups.  i am most grateful that csound development has been moving in this direction.

i assume that, by default, cmake builds with multicore on?  and that one must only invoke "-j ncores" at the commandline to use it?  my work meets ideal muticore conditions (a single instru, many overlapping instances, a 4 core machine, etc.) but i do not seem to see any change in rendering times.

perhaps i'm doing something wrong when building?

--  ben

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 1:01 PM, Michael Gogins <michael.gogins@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes, I think Csound 6 is a bit slower per thread than Csound 5. To deal with that, I expect to put in some time profiling and optimizing the code, as I think the other developers may also do or have done. This may or may not produce speedups.

But there already is a way that some Csound pieces can benefit from big speedups right now, given certain pre-conditions. First, your computer has to have at least 2 cores. Second, your piece has to have code that will speed up if run on multiple cores. Usually but not always, that means multiple instances of the same instrument running at the same time.

If your pieces meet these conditions, then you will need to run at ksmps 20 to 100 or so. I haven't tried that with --sample-accurate, but I will be trying that. 

In such cases, on both 2 and 4 core machines, I've measured speedups of up to 2 times. That would make Csound 6 distinctly faster than Csound 5. 

I routinely run multi-threaded, now. I think that the people involved who implemented this (my role was pushing for the idea, monkeying with a simple and ineffective earlier implementation, and profiling code developed by John ffitch and Chris Wilson and perhaps others, Steven Yi, Victor Lazzarini, did you work on ParCS?) deserve recognition, as this puts Csound at the head of its class.

Expect to have to do some experimenting if you want this to work for you.

Hope this helps,

Mike

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 6:39 AM, Ben Hackbarth <hackbarth@gmail.com> wrote:

hello,

i'm looking to switching over to cs6 but i am finding that, in my larger csound projects, cs6 runs about 25% slower than cs5 on my machine (osx 10.7 doubles built from git yesterday).  i run csound non-realtime.

i'm using lots of strings and lots of python/pycall*.  assuming that cs6 should be the same speed as cs5 (if not faster), how might i go about profiling cpu usage in detail?  are there any build options that cs5 has turned off that cs6 has on (like multicore for instance)?  the csd is complex and pulling it apart to test individual components would be rather difficult.

i have noticed the difference is compile time between cs6 and cs5 for a while now (months), so i would doubt that it is due to any recent changes in git.

thanks,

--  ben

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http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com

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NUI Maynooth Ireland

tel.: +353 1 708 3545

Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie

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things do not seem much better with multithreading enabled.

cs6 with -j 4 is still about 30% slower than cs5 single thread.

michael: i'm on osx 10.7.  the csound code is too difficult to distill into a self-contained test.csd -- too many dependencies on samples, json data files, python code, etc.  i'll see if i can make a simple example which demonstrates my speed issues in the coming weeks.

thanks as always!

--  ben

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 6:42 PM, Ben Hackbarth <hackbarth@gmail.com> wrote:

hey guys,

i have not set BUILD_MULTI_CORE in my cmake config, so that would seem to be the most likely culprit :)

i'll let you know how things fare when i recompile...

--  ben

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 6:32 PM, Victor Lazzarini <Victor.Lazzarini@nuim.ie> wrote:

Have you used the -j <threads> flag?

On 25 May 2013, at 15:54, Ben Hackbarth wrote:

dear michael,

thanks for your reponse.  i starting building csound6 explicitly to take advantage of multithreading and the associates speedups.  i am most grateful that csound development has been moving in this direction.

i assume that, by default, cmake builds with multicore on?  and that one must only invoke "-j ncores" at the commandline to use it?  my work meets ideal muticore conditions (a single instru, many overlapping instances, a 4 core machine, etc.) but i do not seem to see any change in rendering times.

perhaps i'm doing something wrong when building?

--  ben

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 1:01 PM, Michael Gogins <michael.gogins@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes, I think Csound 6 is a bit slower per thread than Csound 5. To deal with that, I expect to put in some time profiling and optimizing the code, as I think the other developers may also do or have done. This may or may not produce speedups.

But there already is a way that some Csound pieces can benefit from big speedups right now, given certain pre-conditions. First, your computer has to have at least 2 cores. Second, your piece has to have code that will speed up if run on multiple cores. Usually but not always, that means multiple instances of the same instrument running at the same time.

If your pieces meet these conditions, then you will need to run at ksmps 20 to 100 or so. I haven't tried that with --sample-accurate, but I will be trying that. 

In such cases, on both 2 and 4 core machines, I've measured speedups of up to 2 times. That would make Csound 6 distinctly faster than Csound 5. 

I routinely run multi-threaded, now. I think that the people involved who implemented this (my role was pushing for the idea, monkeying with a simple and ineffective earlier implementation, and profiling code developed by John ffitch and Chris Wilson and perhaps others, Steven Yi, Victor Lazzarini, did you work on ParCS?) deserve recognition, as this puts Csound at the head of its class.

Expect to have to do some experimenting if you want this to work for you.

Hope this helps,

Mike

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 6:39 AM, Ben Hackbarth <hackbarth@gmail.com> wrote:

hello,

i'm looking to switching over to cs6 but i am finding that, in my larger csound projects, cs6 runs about 25% slower than cs5 on my machine (osx 10.7 doubles built from git yesterday).  i run csound non-realtime.

i'm using lots of strings and lots of python/pycall*.  assuming that cs6 should be the same speed as cs5 (if not faster), how might i go about profiling cpu usage in detail?  are there any build options that cs5 has turned off that cs6 has on (like multicore for instance)?  the csd is complex and pulling it apart to test individual components would be rather difficult.

i have noticed the difference is compile time between cs6 and cs5 for a while now (months), so i would doubt that it is due to any recent changes in git.

thanks,

--  ben

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com

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Dept. of Music

NUI Maynooth Ireland

tel.: +353 1 708 3545

Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie

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No, it doesn't, the behaviour should be similar. Some code do not get the benefits of multicore.

Victor

On 25 May 2013, at 18:01, Michael Gogins wrote:

I'm not familiar with OS X. So, perhaps the multicore code behaves differently on OS X. I can say that on both Windows and Linux it behaves more or less the same.

Regards,

Mike

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 12:57 PM, Ben Hackbarth <hackbarth@gmail.com> wrote:

things do not seem much better with multithreading enabled.

cs6 with -j 4 is still about 30% slower than cs5 single thread.

michael: i'm on osx 10.7.  the csound code is too difficult to distill into a self-contained test.csd -- too many dependencies on samples, json data files, python code, etc.  i'll see if i can make a simple example which demonstrates my speed issues in the coming weeks.

thanks as always!

--  ben

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 6:42 PM, Ben Hackbarth <hackbarth@gmail.com> wrote:

hey guys,

i have not set BUILD_MULTI_CORE in my cmake config, so that would seem to be the most likely culprit :)

i'll let you know how things fare when i recompile...

--  ben

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 6:32 PM, Victor Lazzarini <Victor.Lazzarini@nuim.ie> wrote:

Have you used the -j <threads> flag?

On 25 May 2013, at 15:54, Ben Hackbarth wrote:

dear michael,

thanks for your reponse.  i starting building csound6 explicitly to take advantage of multithreading and the associates speedups.  i am most grateful that csound development has been moving in this direction.

i assume that, by default, cmake builds with multicore on?  and that one must only invoke "-j ncores" at the commandline to use it?  my work meets ideal muticore conditions (a single instru, many overlapping instances, a 4 core machine, etc.) but i do not seem to see any change in rendering times.

perhaps i'm doing something wrong when building?

--  ben

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 1:01 PM, Michael Gogins <michael.gogins@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes, I think Csound 6 is a bit slower per thread than Csound 5. To deal with that, I expect to put in some time profiling and optimizing the code, as I think the other developers may also do or have done. This may or may not produce speedups.

But there already is a way that some Csound pieces can benefit from big speedups right now, given certain pre-conditions. First, your computer has to have at least 2 cores. Second, your piece has to have code that will speed up if run on multiple cores. Usually but not always, that means multiple instances of the same instrument running at the same time.

If your pieces meet these conditions, then you will need to run at ksmps 20 to 100 or so. I haven't tried that with --sample-accurate, but I will be trying that. 

In such cases, on both 2 and 4 core machines, I've measured speedups of up to 2 times. That would make Csound 6 distinctly faster than Csound 5. 

I routinely run multi-threaded, now. I think that the people involved who implemented this (my role was pushing for the idea, monkeying with a simple and ineffective earlier implementation, and profiling code developed by John ffitch and Chris Wilson and perhaps others, Steven Yi, Victor Lazzarini, did you work on ParCS?) deserve recognition, as this puts Csound at the head of its class.

Expect to have to do some experimenting if you want this to work for you.

Hope this helps,

Mike

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 6:39 AM, Ben Hackbarth <hackbarth@gmail.com> wrote:

hello,

i'm looking to switching over to cs6 but i am finding that, in my larger csound projects, cs6 runs about 25% slower than cs5 on my machine (osx 10.7 doubles built from git yesterday).  i run csound non-realtime.

i'm using lots of strings and lots of python/pycall*.  assuming that cs6 should be the same speed as cs5 (if not faster), how might i go about profiling cpu usage in detail?  are there any build options that cs5 has turned off that cs6 has on (like multicore for instance)?  the csd is complex and pulling it apart to test individual components would be rather difficult.

i have noticed the difference is compile time between cs6 and cs5 for a while now (months), so i would doubt that it is due to any recent changes in git.

thanks,

--  ben

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OK, looks like disk reading could be the problem, since diskgrain has not really changed as far as I know (at least in normal mode).

But I will look. Thanks.

On 25 May 2013, at 19:46, Ben Hackbarth wrote:

hi victor,

i think i have found what is cause the significant difference in rendering time between cs5 and cs6 -- diskgrain.

here is a test csd with 20 diskgrain instances running.

http://pastebin.com/GdScLdX5

for csound 5.19.02 (double samples), single core:
real    0m4.249s
user    0m4.059s
sys    0m0.186s

for csound 6.00rc1 (double samples), single core:
real    0m7.513s
user    0m7.320s
sys    0m0.192s

with csound6 -j 4:
real    0m4.337s
user    0m13.314s
sys    0m1.187s

so, multicore is working on osx 10.7 gives a nice boost in this case.  unfortunately my more complicated code does not see such a dramatic gain in efficiency.

nonetheless, it seems suspicious that there is such a large difference in rendering times between single core versions.  i realize that this might not be considered a problem or a priority, but i just wanted to follow up.

regards,

--  ben

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 7:11 PM, Victor Lazzarini <Victor.Lazzarini@nuim.ie> wrote:

No, it doesn't, the behaviour should be similar. Some code do not get the benefits of multicore.

Victor

On 25 May 2013, at 18:01, Michael Gogins wrote:

I'm not familiar with OS X. So, perhaps the multicore code behaves differently on OS X. I can say that on both Windows and Linux it behaves more or less the same.

Regards,

Mike

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 12:57 PM, Ben Hackbarth <hackbarth@gmail.com> wrote:

things do not seem much better with multithreading enabled.

cs6 with -j 4 is still about 30% slower than cs5 single thread.

michael: i'm on osx 10.7.  the csound code is too difficult to distill into a self-contained test.csd -- too many dependencies on samples, json data files, python code, etc.  i'll see if i can make a simple example which demonstrates my speed issues in the coming weeks.

thanks as always!

--  ben

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 6:42 PM, Ben Hackbarth <hackbarth@gmail.com> wrote:

hey guys,

i have not set BUILD_MULTI_CORE in my cmake config, so that would seem to be the most likely culprit :)

i'll let you know how things fare when i recompile...

--  ben

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 6:32 PM, Victor Lazzarini <Victor.Lazzarini@nuim.ie> wrote:

Have you used the -j <threads> flag?

On 25 May 2013, at 15:54, Ben Hackbarth wrote:

dear michael,

thanks for your reponse.  i starting building csound6 explicitly to take advantage of multithreading and the associates speedups.  i am most grateful that csound development has been moving in this direction.

i assume that, by default, cmake builds with multicore on?  and that one must only invoke "-j ncores" at the commandline to use it?  my work meets ideal muticore conditions (a single instru, many overlapping instances, a 4 core machine, etc.) but i do not seem to see any change in rendering times.

perhaps i'm doing something wrong when building?

--  ben

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 1:01 PM, Michael Gogins <michael.gogins@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes, I think Csound 6 is a bit slower per thread than Csound 5. To deal with that, I expect to put in some time profiling and optimizing the code, as I think the other developers may also do or have done. This may or may not produce speedups.

But there already is a way that some Csound pieces can benefit from big speedups right now, given certain pre-conditions. First, your computer has to have at least 2 cores. Second, your piece has to have code that will speed up if run on multiple cores. Usually but not always, that means multiple instances of the same instrument running at the same time.

If your pieces meet these conditions, then you will need to run at ksmps 20 to 100 or so. I haven't tried that with --sample-accurate, but I will be trying that. 

In such cases, on both 2 and 4 core machines, I've measured speedups of up to 2 times. That would make Csound 6 distinctly faster than Csound 5. 

I routinely run multi-threaded, now. I think that the people involved who implemented this (my role was pushing for the idea, monkeying with a simple and ineffective earlier implementation, and profiling code developed by John ffitch and Chris Wilson and perhaps others, Steven Yi, Victor Lazzarini, did you work on ParCS?) deserve recognition, as this puts Csound at the head of its class.

Expect to have to do some experimenting if you want this to work for you.

Hope this helps,

Mike

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 6:39 AM, Ben Hackbarth <hackbarth@gmail.com> wrote:

hello,

i'm looking to switching over to cs6 but i am finding that, in my larger csound projects, cs6 runs about 25% slower than cs5 on my machine (osx 10.7 doubles built from git yesterday).  i run csound non-realtime.

i'm using lots of strings and lots of python/pycall*.  assuming that cs6 should be the same speed as cs5 (if not faster), how might i go about profiling cpu usage in detail?  are there any build options that cs5 has turned off that cs6 has on (like multicore for instance)?  the csd is complex and pulling it apart to test individual components would be rather difficult.

i have noticed the difference is compile time between cs6 and cs5 for a while now (months), so i would doubt that it is due to any recent changes in git.

thanks,

--  ben

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Perhaps the architecture or the build flags are different?

Regards,

Mike

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 2:59 PM, Victor Lazzarini <Victor.Lazzarini@nuim.ie> wrote:

OK, looks like disk reading could be the problem, since diskgrain has not really changed as far as I know (at least in normal mode).

But I will look. Thanks.

On 25 May 2013, at 19:46, Ben Hackbarth wrote:

hi victor,

i think i have found what is cause the significant difference in rendering time between cs5 and cs6 -- diskgrain.

here is a test csd with 20 diskgrain instances running.

http://pastebin.com/GdScLdX5

for csound 5.19.02 (double samples), single core:
real    0m4.249s
user    0m4.059s
sys    0m0.186s

for csound 6.00rc1 (double samples), single core:
real    0m7.513s
user    0m7.320s
sys    0m0.192s

with csound6 -j 4:
real    0m4.337s
user    0m13.314s
sys    0m1.187s

so, multicore is working on osx 10.7 gives a nice boost in this case.  unfortunately my more complicated code does not see such a dramatic gain in efficiency.

nonetheless, it seems suspicious that there is such a large difference in rendering times between single core versions.  i realize that this might not be considered a problem or a priority, but i just wanted to follow up.

regards,

--  ben

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 7:11 PM, Victor Lazzarini <Victor.Lazzarini@nuim.ie> wrote:

No, it doesn't, the behaviour should be similar. Some code do not get the benefits of multicore.

Victor

On 25 May 2013, at 18:01, Michael Gogins wrote:

I'm not familiar with OS X. So, perhaps the multicore code behaves differently on OS X. I can say that on both Windows and Linux it behaves more or less the same.

Regards,

Mike

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 12:57 PM, Ben Hackbarth <hackbarth@gmail.com> wrote:

things do not seem much better with multithreading enabled.

cs6 with -j 4 is still about 30% slower than cs5 single thread.

michael: i'm on osx 10.7.  the csound code is too difficult to distill into a self-contained test.csd -- too many dependencies on samples, json data files, python code, etc.  i'll see if i can make a simple example which demonstrates my speed issues in the coming weeks.

thanks as always!

--  ben

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 6:42 PM, Ben Hackbarth <hackbarth@gmail.com> wrote:

hey guys,

i have not set BUILD_MULTI_CORE in my cmake config, so that would seem to be the most likely culprit :)

i'll let you know how things fare when i recompile...

--  ben

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 6:32 PM, Victor Lazzarini <Victor.Lazzarini@nuim.ie> wrote:

Have you used the -j <threads> flag?

On 25 May 2013, at 15:54, Ben Hackbarth wrote:

dear michael,

thanks for your reponse.  i starting building csound6 explicitly to take advantage of multithreading and the associates speedups.  i am most grateful that csound development has been moving in this direction.

i assume that, by default, cmake builds with multicore on?  and that one must only invoke "-j ncores" at the commandline to use it?  my work meets ideal muticore conditions (a single instru, many overlapping instances, a 4 core machine, etc.) but i do not seem to see any change in rendering times.

perhaps i'm doing something wrong when building?

--  ben

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 1:01 PM, Michael Gogins <michael.gogins@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes, I think Csound 6 is a bit slower per thread than Csound 5. To deal with that, I expect to put in some time profiling and optimizing the code, as I think the other developers may also do or have done. This may or may not produce speedups.

But there already is a way that some Csound pieces can benefit from big speedups right now, given certain pre-conditions. First, your computer has to have at least 2 cores. Second, your piece has to have code that will speed up if run on multiple cores. Usually but not always, that means multiple instances of the same instrument running at the same time.

If your pieces meet these conditions, then you will need to run at ksmps 20 to 100 or so. I haven't tried that with --sample-accurate, but I will be trying that. 

In such cases, on both 2 and 4 core machines, I've measured speedups of up to 2 times. That would make Csound 6 distinctly faster than Csound 5. 

I routinely run multi-threaded, now. I think that the people involved who implemented this (my role was pushing for the idea, monkeying with a simple and ineffective earlier implementation, and profiling code developed by John ffitch and Chris Wilson and perhaps others, Steven Yi, Victor Lazzarini, did you work on ParCS?) deserve recognition, as this puts Csound at the head of its class.

Expect to have to do some experimenting if you want this to work for you.

Hope this helps,

Mike

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 6:39 AM, Ben Hackbarth <hackbarth@gmail.com> wrote:

hello,

i'm looking to switching over to cs6 but i am finding that, in my larger csound projects, cs6 runs about 25% slower than cs5 on my machine (osx 10.7 doubles built from git yesterday).  i run csound non-realtime.

i'm using lots of strings and lots of python/pycall*.  assuming that cs6 should be the same speed as cs5 (if not faster), how might i go about profiling cpu usage in detail?  are there any build options that cs5 has turned off that cs6 has on (like multicore for instance)?  the csd is complex and pulling it apart to test individual components would be rather difficult.

i have noticed the difference is compile time between cs6 and cs5 for a while now (months), so i would doubt that it is due to any recent changes in git.

thanks,

--  ben

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Try updating to the latest GIT, or even downloading the new binaries, we're in RC2 now.

Victor

On 25 May 2013, at 20:26, Ben Hackbarth wrote:

hi mike,

some more info about my machine/build:

Csound version 6.00rc1 (recent git) on osx 10.7 (64-bit kernel)

cmake config:
('USE_DOUBLE:BOOL', 'ON'),
('BUILD_MULTI_CORE:BOOL', 'ON'),
('CMAKE_VERBOSE_MAKEFILE:BOOL', 'ON'),
('NEW_PARSER_DEBUG:BOOL', 'OFF'),
('PORTAUDIO_LIBRARY:FILEPATH', '/Users/ben/lib/libportaudio.dylib'),
('PORTAUDIO_HEADER:FILEPATH', '/Users/ben/include/portaudio.h'),

libsndfile-1.0.25

--  ben

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 9:15 PM, Michael Gogins <michael.gogins@gmail.com> wrote:

Perhaps the architecture or the build flags are different?

Regards,

Mike

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 2:59 PM, Victor Lazzarini <Victor.Lazzarini@nuim.ie> wrote:

OK, looks like disk reading could be the problem, since diskgrain has not really changed as far as I know (at least in normal mode).

But I will look. Thanks.

On 25 May 2013, at 19:46, Ben Hackbarth wrote:

hi victor,

i think i have found what is cause the significant difference in rendering time between cs5 and cs6 -- diskgrain.

here is a test csd with 20 diskgrain instances running.

http://pastebin.com/GdScLdX5

for csound 5.19.02 (double samples), single core:
real    0m4.249s
user    0m4.059s
sys    0m0.186s

for csound 6.00rc1 (double samples), single core:
real    0m7.513s
user    0m7.320s
sys    0m0.192s

with csound6 -j 4:
real    0m4.337s
user    0m13.314s
sys    0m1.187s

so, multicore is working on osx 10.7 gives a nice boost in this case.  unfortunately my more complicated code does not see such a dramatic gain in efficiency.

nonetheless, it seems suspicious that there is such a large difference in rendering times between single core versions.  i realize that this might not be considered a problem or a priority, but i just wanted to follow up.

regards,

--  ben

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 7:11 PM, Victor Lazzarini <Victor.Lazzarini@nuim.ie> wrote:

No, it doesn't, the behaviour should be similar. Some code do not get the benefits of multicore.

Victor

On 25 May 2013, at 18:01, Michael Gogins wrote:

I'm not familiar with OS X. So, perhaps the multicore code behaves differently on OS X. I can say that on both Windows and Linux it behaves more or less the same.

Regards,

Mike

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 12:57 PM, Ben Hackbarth <hackbarth@gmail.com> wrote:

things do not seem much better with multithreading enabled.

cs6 with -j 4 is still about 30% slower than cs5 single thread.

michael: i'm on osx 10.7.  the csound code is too difficult to distill into a self-contained test.csd -- too many dependencies on samples, json data files, python code, etc.  i'll see if i can make a simple example which demonstrates my speed issues in the coming weeks.

thanks as always!

--  ben

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 6:42 PM, Ben Hackbarth <hackbarth@gmail.com> wrote:

hey guys,

i have not set BUILD_MULTI_CORE in my cmake config, so that would seem to be the most likely culprit :)

i'll let you know how things fare when i recompile...

--  ben

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 6:32 PM, Victor Lazzarini <Victor.Lazzarini@nuim.ie> wrote:

Have you used the -j <threads> flag?

On 25 May 2013, at 15:54, Ben Hackbarth wrote:

dear michael,

thanks for your reponse.  i starting building csound6 explicitly to take advantage of multithreading and the associates speedups.  i am most grateful that csound development has been moving in this direction.

i assume that, by default, cmake builds with multicore on?  and that one must only invoke "-j ncores" at the commandline to use it?  my work meets ideal muticore conditions (a single instru, many overlapping instances, a 4 core machine, etc.) but i do not seem to see any change in rendering times.

perhaps i'm doing something wrong when building?

--  ben

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 1:01 PM, Michael Gogins <michael.gogins@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes, I think Csound 6 is a bit slower per thread than Csound 5. To deal with that, I expect to put in some time profiling and optimizing the code, as I think the other developers may also do or have done. This may or may not produce speedups.

But there already is a way that some Csound pieces can benefit from big speedups right now, given certain pre-conditions. First, your computer has to have at least 2 cores. Second, your piece has to have code that will speed up if run on multiple cores. Usually but not always, that means multiple instances of the same instrument running at the same time.

If your pieces meet these conditions, then you will need to run at ksmps 20 to 100 or so. I haven't tried that with --sample-accurate, but I will be trying that. 

In such cases, on both 2 and 4 core machines, I've measured speedups of up to 2 times. That would make Csound 6 distinctly faster than Csound 5. 

I routinely run multi-threaded, now. I think that the people involved who implemented this (my role was pushing for the idea, monkeying with a simple and ineffective earlier implementation, and profiling code developed by John ffitch and Chris Wilson and perhaps others, Steven Yi, Victor Lazzarini, did you work on ParCS?) deserve recognition, as this puts Csound at the head of its class.

Expect to have to do some experimenting if you want this to work for you.

Hope this helps,

Mike

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 6:39 AM, Ben Hackbarth <hackbarth@gmail.com> wrote:

hello,

i'm looking to switching over to cs6 but i am finding that, in my larger csound projects, cs6 runs about 25% slower than cs5 on my machine (osx 10.7 doubles built from git yesterday).  i run csound non-realtime.

i'm using lots of strings and lots of python/pycall*.  assuming that cs6 should be the same speed as cs5 (if not faster), how might i go about profiling cpu usage in detail?  are there any build options that cs5 has turned off that cs6 has on (like multicore for instance)?  the csd is complex and pulling it apart to test individual components would be rather difficult.

i have noticed the difference is compile time between cs6 and cs5 for a while now (months), so i would doubt that it is due to any recent changes in git.

thanks,

--  ben

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200

On 25 May 2013, at 21:03, Steven Yi wrote:

> Hi Ben,
>
> What ksmps are you using?
>
> steven
>
> On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 9:01 PM, Victor Lazzarini
> <Victor.Lazzarini@nuim.ie> wrote:
>> I can only think that your build is not using any gcc optimisations. Could
>> you look into the command lines to see if there is a  -03  there?
>> Like this (see the -O3 there).
>>
>> /Users/victor/bin/gcc  -DCsoundLib64_EXPORTS -DUSE_DOUBLE
>> -DCS_DEFAULT_PLUGINDIR=\"/Users/victor/Library/Frameworks/CsoundLib64.framework/Versions/6.0/Resources/Opcodes64\"
>> -D_CSOUND_RELEASE_ -DUSE_LRINT -DMACOSX -DPIPES -DNO_FLTK_THREADS
>> -DHAVE_SOCKETS -DHAVE_STRTOK_R -DHAVE_STRTOD_L -W -Wall -O3
>> -Wno-missing-field-initializers -Wno-unused-parameter -ftree-vectorize
>> -ffast-math -g -fPIC -I/usr/local/include -I/Users/victor/src/csound6/./H
>> -I/Users/victor/src/csound6/./include -I/Users/victor/src/csound6/./Engine
>> -I/Users/victor/src/csound6/. -I/Users/victor/src/csound6/debug
>> -Wno-format  -g   -D__BUILDING_LIBCSOUND -DPARCS -DHAVE_DIRENT_H
>> -DHAVE_FCNTL_H -DHAVE_UNISTD_H -DHAVE_STDINT_H -DHAVE_SYS_TIME_H
>> -DHAVE_SYS_TYPES_H -DHAVE_TERMIOS_H -fvisibility=hidden -ffast-math
>> -mfpmath=sse -fomit-frame-pointer -o
>> CMakeFiles/CsoundLib64.dir/OOps/str_ops.c.o   -c
>> /Users/victor/src/csound6/OOps/str_ops.c
>>
>>
>> On 25 May 2013, at 20:47, Ben Hackbarth wrote:
>>
>> oops.. thought i pulled the latest.
>>
>> same result though:
>>
>> cs5:
>> Elapsed time at end of performance: real: 4.203s, CPU: 4.203s
>> cs6.00rc2:
>> Elapsed time at end of performance: real: 7.388s, CPU: 7.388s
>>
>>
>> any other osx users out there that would be willing to test?
>>
>>
>> --  ben
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 9:33 PM, Victor Lazzarini <Victor.Lazzarini@nuim.ie>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Try updating to the latest GIT, or even downloading the new binaries,
>>> we're in RC2 now.
>>>
>>> Victor
>>>
>>> On 25 May 2013, at 20:26, Ben Hackbarth wrote:
>>>
>>> hi mike,
>>>
>>> some more info about my machine/build:
>>>
>>> Csound version 6.00rc1 (recent git) on osx 10.7 (64-bit kernel)
>>>
>>> cmake config:
>>> ('USE_DOUBLE:BOOL', 'ON'),
>>> ('BUILD_MULTI_CORE:BOOL', 'ON'),
>>> ('CMAKE_VERBOSE_MAKEFILE:BOOL', 'ON'),
>>> ('NEW_PARSER_DEBUG:BOOL', 'OFF'),
>>> ('PORTAUDIO_LIBRARY:FILEPATH', '/Users/ben/lib/libportaudio.dylib'),
>>> ('PORTAUDIO_HEADER:FILEPATH', '/Users/ben/include/portaudio.h'),
>>>
>>> libsndfile-1.0.25
>>>
>>>
>>> --  ben
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 9:15 PM, Michael Gogins <michael.gogins@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps the architecture or the build flags are different?
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 2:59 PM, Victor Lazzarini
>>>> <Victor.Lazzarini@nuim.ie> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> OK, looks like disk reading could be the problem, since diskgrain has
>>>>> not really changed as far as I know (at least in normal mode).
>>>>> But I will look. Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 25 May 2013, at 19:46, Ben Hackbarth wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> hi victor,
>>>>>
>>>>> i think i have found what is cause the significant difference in
>>>>> rendering time between cs5 and cs6 -- diskgrain.
>>>>>
>>>>> here is a test csd with 20 diskgrain instances running.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://pastebin.com/GdScLdX5
>>>>>
>>>>> for csound 5.19.02 (double samples), single core:
>>>>> real    0m4.249s
>>>>> user    0m4.059s
>>>>> sys    0m0.186s
>>>>>
>>>>> for csound 6.00rc1 (double samples), single core:
>>>>> real    0m7.513s
>>>>> user    0m7.320s
>>>>> sys    0m0.192s
>>>>>
>>>>> with csound6 -j 4:
>>>>> real    0m4.337s
>>>>> user    0m13.314s
>>>>> sys    0m1.187s
>>>>>
>>>>> so, multicore is working on osx 10.7 gives a nice boost in this case.
>>>>> unfortunately my more complicated code does not see such a dramatic gain in
>>>>> efficiency.
>>>>>
>>>>> nonetheless, it seems suspicious that there is such a large difference
>>>>> in rendering times between single core versions.  i realize that this might
>>>>> not be considered a problem or a priority, but i just wanted to follow up.
>>>>>
>>>>> regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> --  ben
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 7:11 PM, Victor Lazzarini
>>>>> <Victor.Lazzarini@nuim.ie> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, it doesn't, the behaviour should be similar. Some code do not get
>>>>>> the benefits of multicore.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Victor
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 25 May 2013, at 18:01, Michael Gogins wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not familiar with OS X. So, perhaps the multicore code behaves
>>>>>> differently on OS X. I can say that on both Windows and Linux it behaves
>>>>>> more or less the same.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 12:57 PM, Ben Hackbarth <hackbarth@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> things do not seem much better with multithreading enabled.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> cs6 with -j 4 is still about 30% slower than cs5 single thread.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> michael: i'm on osx 10.7.  the csound code is too difficult to distill
>>>>>>> into a self-contained test.csd -- too many dependencies on samples, json
>>>>>>> data files, python code, etc.  i'll see if i can make a simple example which
>>>>>>> demonstrates my speed issues in the coming weeks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> thanks as always!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --  ben
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 6:42 PM, Ben Hackbarth <hackbarth@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> hey guys,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> i have not set BUILD_MULTI_CORE in my cmake config, so that would
>>>>>>>> seem to be the most likely culprit :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> i'll let you know how things fare when i recompile...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --  ben
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 6:32 PM, Victor Lazzarini
>>>>>>>> <Victor.Lazzarini@nuim.ie> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Have you used the -j <threads> flag?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 25 May 2013, at 15:54, Ben Hackbarth wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> dear michael,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> thanks for your reponse.  i starting building csound6 explicitly to
>>>>>>>>> take advantage of multithreading and the associates speedups.  i am most
>>>>>>>>> grateful that csound development has been moving in this direction.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> i assume that, by default, cmake builds with multicore on?  and that
>>>>>>>>> one must only invoke "-j ncores" at the commandline to use it?  my work
>>>>>>>>> meets ideal muticore conditions (a single instru, many overlapping
>>>>>>>>> instances, a 4 core machine, etc.) but i do not seem to see any change in
>>>>>>>>> rendering times.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> perhaps i'm doing something wrong when building?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --  ben
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 1:01 PM, Michael Gogins
>>>>>>>>> <michael.gogins@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yes, I think Csound 6 is a bit slower per thread than Csound 5. To
>>>>>>>>>> deal with that, I expect to put in some time profiling and optimizing the
>>>>>>>>>> code, as I think the other developers may also do or have done. This may or
>>>>>>>>>> may not produce speedups.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But there already is a way that some Csound pieces can benefit from
>>>>>>>>>> big speedups right now, given certain pre-conditions. First, your computer
>>>>>>>>>> has to have at least 2 cores. Second, your piece has to have code that will
>>>>>>>>>> speed up if run on multiple cores. Usually but not always, that means
>>>>>>>>>> multiple instances of the same instrument running at the same time.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If your pieces meet these conditions, then you will need to run at
>>>>>>>>>> ksmps 20 to 100 or so. I haven't tried that with --sample-accurate, but I
>>>>>>>>>> will be trying that.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In such cases, on both 2 and 4 core machines, I've measured
>>>>>>>>>> speedups of up to 2 times. That would make Csound 6 distinctly faster than
>>>>>>>>>> Csound 5.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I routinely run multi-threaded, now. I think that the people
>>>>>>>>>> involved who implemented this (my role was pushing for the idea, monkeying
>>>>>>>>>> with a simple and ineffective earlier implementation, and profiling code
>>>>>>>>>> developed by John ffitch and Chris Wilson and perhaps others, Steven Yi,
>>>>>>>>>> Victor Lazzarini, did you work on ParCS?) deserve recognition, as this puts
>>>>>>>>>> Csound at the head of its class.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Expect to have to do some experimenting if you want this to work
>>>>>>>>>> for you.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hope this helps,
>>>>>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 6:39 AM, Ben Hackbarth
>>>>>>>>>> <hackbarth@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> hello,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> i'm looking to switching over to cs6 but i am finding that, in my
>>>>>>>>>>> larger csound projects, cs6 runs about 25% slower than cs5 on my machine
>>>>>>>>>>> (osx 10.7 doubles built from git yesterday).  i run csound non-realtime.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> i'm using lots of strings and lots of python/pycall*.  assuming
>>>>>>>>>>> that cs6 should be the same speed as cs5 (if not faster), how might i go
>>>>>>>>>>> about profiling cpu usage in detail?  are there any build options that cs5
>>>>>>>>>>> has turned off that cs6 has on (like multicore for instance)?  the csd is
>>>>>>>>>>> complex and pulling it apart to test individual components would be rather
>>>>>>>>>>> difficult.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> i have noticed the difference is compile time between cs6 and cs5
>>>>>>>>>>> for a while now (months), so i would doubt that it is due to any recent
>>>>>>>>>>> changes in git.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>> --  ben
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>> Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt
>>>>>>>>>>> New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance
>>>>>>>>>>> monitoring service
>>>>>>>>>>> that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor
>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>> browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New
>>>>>>>>>>> Relic
>>>>>>>>>>> and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt!
>>>>>>>>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Michael Gogins
>>>>>>>>>> Irreducible Productions
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.michael-gogins.com
>>>>>>>>>> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt
>>>>>>>>>> New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring
>>>>>>>>>> service
>>>>>>>>>> that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor
>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>> browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New
>>>>>>>>>> Relic
>>>>>>>>>> and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt!
>>>>>>>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>>>>>>> New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring
>>>>>>>>> service
>>>>>>>>> that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor
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>>>>>>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>>>>>>>>> Senior Lecturer
>>>>>>>>> Dept. of Music
>>>>>>>>> NUI Maynooth Ireland
>>>>>>>>> tel.: +353 1 708 3545
>>>>>>>>> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt
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>>>>>>>>> service
>>>>>>>>> that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor
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>>>>>>>>> browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic
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>>>>>>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt
>>>>>>> New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring
>>>>>>> service
>>>>>>> that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your
>>>>>>> browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic
>>>>>>> and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt!
>>>>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Michael Gogins
>>>>>> Irreducible Productions
>>>>>> http://www.michael-gogins.com
>>>>>> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt
>>>>>> New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring
>>>>>> service
>>>>>> that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your
>>>>>> browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic
>>>>>> and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt!
>>>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may_______________________________________________
>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>>>>>> Senior Lecturer
>>>>>> Dept. of Music
>>>>>> NUI Maynooth Ireland
>>>>>> tel.: +353 1 708 3545
>>>>>> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt
>>>>>> New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring
>>>>>> service
>>>>>> that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your
>>>>>> browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic
>>>>>> and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt!
>>>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt
>>>>> New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring
>>>>> service
>>>>> that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your
>>>>> browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic
>>>>> and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt!
>>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may_______________________________________________
>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>>>>> Senior Lecturer
>>>>> Dept. of Music
>>>>> NUI Maynooth Ireland
>>>>> tel.: +353 1 708 3545
>>>>> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt
>>>>> New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring
>>>>> service
>>>>> that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your
>>>>> browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic
>>>>> and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt!
>>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Michael Gogins
>>>> Irreducible Productions
>>>> http://www.michael-gogins.com
>>>> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt
>>>> New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring
>>>> service
>>>> that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your
>>>> browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic
>>>> and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt!
>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt
>>> New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring
>>> service
>>> that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your
>>> browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic
>>> and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt!
>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may_______________________________________________
>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>
>>>
>>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>>> Senior Lecturer
>>> Dept. of Music
>>> NUI Maynooth Ireland
>>> tel.: +353 1 708 3545
>>> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt
>>> New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring
>>> service
>>> that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your
>>> browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic
>>> and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt
>> New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service
>> that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your
>> browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic
>> and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt!
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may_______________________________________________
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>>
>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>> Senior Lecturer
>> Dept. of Music
>> NUI Maynooth Ireland
>> tel.: +353 1 708 3545
>> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt
>> New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service
>> that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your
>> browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic
>> and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may
>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt
> New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service
> that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your
> browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic
> and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may
> _______________________________________________
> Csound-devel mailing list
> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel

Dr Victor Lazzarini
Senior Lecturer
Dept. of Music
NUI Maynooth Ireland
tel.: +353 1 708 3545
Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie




------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt
New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service
that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your
browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic
and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may
_______________________________________________
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looks like you're right victor..

--  ben

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 10:18 PM, Victor Lazzarini <Victor.Lazzarini@nuim.ie> wrote:

200

On 25 May 2013, at 21:03, Steven Yi wrote:

> Hi Ben,
>
> What ksmps are you using?
>
> steven
>
> On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 9:01 PM, Victor Lazzarini
> <Victor.Lazzarini@nuim.ie> wrote:
>> I can only think that your build is not using any gcc optimisations. Could
>> you look into the command lines to see if there is a  -03  there?
>> Like this (see the -O3 there).
>>
>> /Users/victor/bin/gcc  -DCsoundLib64_EXPORTS -DUSE_DOUBLE
>> -DCS_DEFAULT_PLUGINDIR=\"/Users/victor/Library/Frameworks/CsoundLib64.framework/Versions/6.0/Resources/Opcodes64\"
>> -D_CSOUND_RELEASE_ -DUSE_LRINT -DMACOSX -DPIPES -DNO_FLTK_THREADS
>> -DHAVE_SOCKETS -DHAVE_STRTOK_R -DHAVE_STRTOD_L -W -Wall -O3
>> -Wno-missing-field-initializers -Wno-unused-parameter -ftree-vectorize
>> -ffast-math -g -fPIC -I/usr/local/include -I/Users/victor/src/csound6/./H
>> -I/Users/victor/src/csound6/./include -I/Users/victor/src/csound6/./Engine
>> -I/Users/victor/src/csound6/. -I/Users/victor/src/csound6/debug
>> -Wno-format  -g   -D__BUILDING_LIBCSOUND -DPARCS -DHAVE_DIRENT_H
>> -DHAVE_FCNTL_H -DHAVE_UNISTD_H -DHAVE_STDINT_H -DHAVE_SYS_TIME_H
>> -DHAVE_SYS_TYPES_H -DHAVE_TERMIOS_H -fvisibility=hidden -ffast-math
>> -mfpmath=sse -fomit-frame-pointer -o
>> CMakeFiles/CsoundLib64.dir/OOps/str_ops.c.o   -c
>> /Users/victor/src/csound6/OOps/str_ops.c
>>
>>
>> On 25 May 2013, at 20:47, Ben Hackbarth wrote:
>>
>> oops.. thought i pulled the latest.
>>
>> same result though:
>>
>> cs5:
>> Elapsed time at end of performance: real: 4.203s, CPU: 4.203s
>> cs6.00rc2:
>> Elapsed time at end of performance: real: 7.388s, CPU: 7.388s
>>
>>
>> any other osx users out there that would be willing to test?
>>
>>
>> --  ben
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 9:33 PM, Victor Lazzarini <Victor.Lazzarini@nuim.ie>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Try updating to the latest GIT, or even downloading the new binaries,
>>> we're in RC2 now.
>>>
>>> Victor
>>>
>>> On 25 May 2013, at 20:26, Ben Hackbarth wrote:
>>>
>>> hi mike,
>>>
>>> some more info about my machine/build:
>>>
>>> Csound version 6.00rc1 (recent git) on osx 10.7 (64-bit kernel)
>>>
>>> cmake config:
>>> ('USE_DOUBLE:BOOL', 'ON'),
>>> ('BUILD_MULTI_CORE:BOOL', 'ON'),
>>> ('CMAKE_VERBOSE_MAKEFILE:BOOL', 'ON'),
>>> ('NEW_PARSER_DEBUG:BOOL', 'OFF'),
>>> ('PORTAUDIO_LIBRARY:FILEPATH', '/Users/ben/lib/libportaudio.dylib'),
>>> ('PORTAUDIO_HEADER:FILEPATH', '/Users/ben/include/portaudio.h'),
>>>
>>> libsndfile-1.0.25
>>>
>>>
>>> --  ben
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 9:15 PM, Michael Gogins <michael.gogins@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps the architecture or the build flags are different?
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 2:59 PM, Victor Lazzarini
>>>> <Victor.Lazzarini@nuim.ie> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> OK, looks like disk reading could be the problem, since diskgrain has
>>>>> not really changed as far as I know (at least in normal mode).
>>>>> But I will look. Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 25 May 2013, at 19:46, Ben Hackbarth wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> hi victor,
>>>>>
>>>>> i think i have found what is cause the significant difference in
>>>>> rendering time between cs5 and cs6 -- diskgrain.
>>>>>
>>>>> here is a test csd with 20 diskgrain instances running.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://pastebin.com/GdScLdX5
>>>>>
>>>>> for csound 5.19.02 (double samples), single core:
>>>>> real    0m4.249s
>>>>> user    0m4.059s
>>>>> sys    0m0.186s
>>>>>
>>>>> for csound 6.00rc1 (double samples), single core:
>>>>> real    0m7.513s
>>>>> user    0m7.320s
>>>>> sys    0m0.192s
>>>>>
>>>>> with csound6 -j 4:
>>>>> real    0m4.337s
>>>>> user    0m13.314s
>>>>> sys    0m1.187s
>>>>>
>>>>> so, multicore is working on osx 10.7 gives a nice boost in this case.
>>>>> unfortunately my more complicated code does not see such a dramatic gain in
>>>>> efficiency.
>>>>>
>>>>> nonetheless, it seems suspicious that there is such a large difference
>>>>> in rendering times between single core versions.  i realize that this might
>>>>> not be considered a problem or a priority, but i just wanted to follow up.
>>>>>
>>>>> regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> --  ben
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 7:11 PM, Victor Lazzarini
>>>>> <Victor.Lazzarini@nuim.ie> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, it doesn't, the behaviour should be similar. Some code do not get
>>>>>> the benefits of multicore.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Victor
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 25 May 2013, at 18:01, Michael Gogins wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not familiar with OS X. So, perhaps the multicore code behaves
>>>>>> differently on OS X. I can say that on both Windows and Linux it behaves
>>>>>> more or less the same.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 12:57 PM, Ben Hackbarth <hackbarth@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> things do not seem much better with multithreading enabled.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> cs6 with -j 4 is still about 30% slower than cs5 single thread.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> michael: i'm on osx 10.7.  the csound code is too difficult to distill
>>>>>>> into a self-contained test.csd -- too many dependencies on samples, json
>>>>>>> data files, python code, etc.  i'll see if i can make a simple example which
>>>>>>> demonstrates my speed issues in the coming weeks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> thanks as always!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --  ben
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 6:42 PM, Ben Hackbarth <hackbarth@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> hey guys,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> i have not set BUILD_MULTI_CORE in my cmake config, so that would
>>>>>>>> seem to be the most likely culprit :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> i'll let you know how things fare when i recompile...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --  ben
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 6:32 PM, Victor Lazzarini
>>>>>>>> <Victor.Lazzarini@nuim.ie> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Have you used the -j <threads> flag?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 25 May 2013, at 15:54, Ben Hackbarth wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> dear michael,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> thanks for your reponse.  i starting building csound6 explicitly to
>>>>>>>>> take advantage of multithreading and the associates speedups.  i am most
>>>>>>>>> grateful that csound development has been moving in this direction.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> i assume that, by default, cmake builds with multicore on?  and that
>>>>>>>>> one must only invoke "-j ncores" at the commandline to use it?  my work
>>>>>>>>> meets ideal muticore conditions (a single instru, many overlapping
>>>>>>>>> instances, a 4 core machine, etc.) but i do not seem to see any change in
>>>>>>>>> rendering times.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> perhaps i'm doing something wrong when building?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --  ben
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 1:01 PM, Michael Gogins
>>>>>>>>> <michael.gogins@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yes, I think Csound 6 is a bit slower per thread than Csound 5. To
>>>>>>>>>> deal with that, I expect to put in some time profiling and optimizing the
>>>>>>>>>> code, as I think the other developers may also do or have done. This may or
>>>>>>>>>> may not produce speedups.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But there already is a way that some Csound pieces can benefit from
>>>>>>>>>> big speedups right now, given certain pre-conditions. First, your computer
>>>>>>>>>> has to have at least 2 cores. Second, your piece has to have code that will
>>>>>>>>>> speed up if run on multiple cores. Usually but not always, that means
>>>>>>>>>> multiple instances of the same instrument running at the same time.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If your pieces meet these conditions, then you will need to run at
>>>>>>>>>> ksmps 20 to 100 or so. I haven't tried that with --sample-accurate, but I
>>>>>>>>>> will be trying that.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In such cases, on both 2 and 4 core machines, I've measured
>>>>>>>>>> speedups of up to 2 times. That would make Csound 6 distinctly faster than
>>>>>>>>>> Csound 5.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I routinely run multi-threaded, now. I think that the people
>>>>>>>>>> involved who implemented this (my role was pushing for the idea, monkeying
>>>>>>>>>> with a simple and ineffective earlier implementation, and profiling code
>>>>>>>>>> developed by John ffitch and Chris Wilson and perhaps others, Steven Yi,
>>>>>>>>>> Victor Lazzarini, did you work on ParCS?) deserve recognition, as this puts
>>>>>>>>>> Csound at the head of its class.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Expect to have to do some experimenting if you want this to work
>>>>>>>>>> for you.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hope this helps,
>>>>>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 6:39 AM, Ben Hackbarth
>>>>>>>>>> <hackbarth@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> hello,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> i'm looking to switching over to cs6 but i am finding that, in my
>>>>>>>>>>> larger csound projects, cs6 runs about 25% slower than cs5 on my machine
>>>>>>>>>>> (osx 10.7 doubles built from git yesterday).  i run csound non-realtime.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> i'm using lots of strings and lots of python/pycall*.  assuming
>>>>>>>>>>> that cs6 should be the same speed as cs5 (if not faster), how might i go
>>>>>>>>>>> about profiling cpu usage in detail?  are there any build options that cs5
>>>>>>>>>>> has turned off that cs6 has on (like multicore for instance)?  the csd is
>>>>>>>>>>> complex and pulling it apart to test individual components would be rather
>>>>>>>>>>> difficult.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> i have noticed the difference is compile time between cs6 and cs5
>>>>>>>>>>> for a while now (months), so i would doubt that it is due to any recent
>>>>>>>>>>> changes in git.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>> --  ben
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>> Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt
>>>>>>>>>>> New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance
>>>>>>>>>>> monitoring service
>>>>>>>>>>> that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor
>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>> browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New
>>>>>>>>>>> Relic
>>>>>>>>>>> and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt!
>>>>>>>>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Michael Gogins
>>>>>>>>>> Irreducible Productions
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.michael-gogins.com
>>>>>>>>>> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt
>>>>>>>>>> New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring
>>>>>>>>>> service
>>>>>>>>>> that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor
>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>> browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New
>>>>>>>>>> Relic
>>>>>>>>>> and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt!
>>>>>>>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt
>>>>>>>>> New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring
>>>>>>>>> service
>>>>>>>>> that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor
>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>> browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic
>>>>>>>>> and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt!
>>>>>>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>>>>>>>>> Senior Lecturer
>>>>>>>>> Dept. of Music
>>>>>>>>> NUI Maynooth Ireland
>>>>>>>>> tel.: +353 1 708 3545
>>>>>>>>> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt
>>>>>>>>> New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring
>>>>>>>>> service
>>>>>>>>> that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor
>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>> browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic
>>>>>>>>> and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt!
>>>>>>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt
>>>>>>> New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring
>>>>>>> service
>>>>>>> that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your
>>>>>>> browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic
>>>>>>> and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt!
>>>>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Michael Gogins
>>>>>> Irreducible Productions
>>>>>> http://www.michael-gogins.com
>>>>>> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt
>>>>>> New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring
>>>>>> service
>>>>>> that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your
>>>>>> browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic
>>>>>> and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt!
>>>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may_______________________________________________
>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>>>>>> Senior Lecturer
>>>>>> Dept. of Music
>>>>>> NUI Maynooth Ireland
>>>>>> tel.: +353 1 708 3545
>>>>>> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt
>>>>>> New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring
>>>>>> service
>>>>>> that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your
>>>>>> browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic
>>>>>> and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt!
>>>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt
>>>>> New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring
>>>>> service
>>>>> that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your
>>>>> browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic
>>>>> and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt!
>>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may_______________________________________________
>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>>>>> Senior Lecturer
>>>>> Dept. of Music
>>>>> NUI Maynooth Ireland
>>>>> tel.: +353 1 708 3545
>>>>> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt
>>>>> New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring
>>>>> service
>>>>> that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your
>>>>> browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic
>>>>> and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt!
>>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Michael Gogins
>>>> Irreducible Productions
>>>> http://www.michael-gogins.com
>>>> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt
>>>> New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring
>>>> service
>>>> that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your
>>>> browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic
>>>> and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt!
>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt
>>> New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring
>>> service
>>> that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your
>>> browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic
>>> and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt!
>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may_______________________________________________
>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>
>>>
>>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>>> Senior Lecturer
>>> Dept. of Music
>>> NUI Maynooth Ireland
>>> tel.: +353 1 708 3545
>>> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt
>>> New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring
>>> service
>>> that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your
>>> browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic
>>> and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt
>> New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service
>> that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your
>> browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic
>> and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt!
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may_______________________________________________
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>>
>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>> Senior Lecturer
>> Dept. of Music
>> NUI Maynooth Ireland
>> tel.: +353 1 708 3545
>> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt
>> New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service
>> that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your
>> browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic
>> and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may
>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt
> New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service
> that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your
> browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic
> and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may
> _______________________________________________
> Csound-devel mailing list
> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel

Dr Victor Lazzarini
Senior Lecturer
Dept. of Music
NUI Maynooth Ireland
tel.: +353 1 708 3545
Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie




------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt
New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service
that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your
browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic
and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may
_______________________________________________
Csound-devel mailing list
Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel