I'm very wary about Flash.  Adobe seems to be moving away from it now
for a while, Apple actively dislikes it, and others seem to merely
tolerate it.  With NPAPI going away, I don't know what the future of
Flash will be.  I personally don't find it attractive to invest time
into, but then again, it's been a long while since I did any Flash
development and hence I have only followed it from the outside.  Seems
to me that putting time into it would eventually be a loss as I think
Flash is going to disappear within a few years.

On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 9:01 AM, Michael Gogins  wrote:
> I have been following Steven Yi's reports on cross-compiling Csound to
> JavaScript bytecode using Emscripten. I got curious and did some research,
> and quickly found that Adobe has a similar initiative for ActionScript:
>
>   http://adobe-flash.github.io/crossbridge/
>
> CrossBridge has an online demo using Unreal Citadel that looks virtually
> identical to the Emscripten demo. Does anyone have any experience with this?
>
> Newer Flash runtimes support pthreads and OpenMP.
>
> As you probably know, both JavaScript and ActionScript are forms, more or
> less, of ECMAScript.
>
> I quote the first part of their README.md below.
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
>
> Crossbridge is the open-source version of Adobe FlasCC (formerly the Alchemy
> project). It provides a complete C/C++ development environment for
> targetting the Adobe Flash Runtime.
> For more information about this project, please visit
> http://adobe-flash.github.io/crossbridge/.
> To get the latest release version, please visit the
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/crossbridge/files/.
>
> Features:
>
> GCC 4.2 compiler with Flash backend.
> GDB debugger that debugs your code while running in the Flash player.
> SWIG backend that auto generates interop code allowing you to build Flash
> libs (SWCs) that wrap C/C++ libraries.
> pthread based multithreading (in Flash 11.5+)
> Development
>
> The master branch contains all of the code necessary to build crossbridge
> 1.0.1, this is the current stable version. The future branch contains some
> work in progress to upgrade the toolchain to LLVM 3.2 and switch to using
> the Clang compiler instead of GCC.
>
> Both the mac and cygwin SDKs are built on mac, you will need XCode and some
> macports packages installed to be able to build (pkg-config, glib, and
> mercurial).
>
> Doing a "make" in the root directory should be sufficient to build just the
> mac sdk, doing "make; make win; make deliverables" should build both mac and
> windows and package them as dmg and zips
>
> Future
>
> Futures branch contains the upgrading code. Comparing to master, it will
> mainly has
>
> Clang/LLVM 3.2 toolchain
> Freebsd 9.1 Environment
> Libc++ with support of c++11 std.
>
> ===========================
> Michael Gogins
> Irreducible Productions
> http://michaelgogins.tumblr.com
> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Android is increasing in popularity, but the open development platform that
> developers love is also attractive to malware creators. Download this white
> paper to learn more about secure code signing practices that can help keep
> Android apps secure.
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=65839951&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
> _______________________________________________
> Csound-devel mailing list
> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>

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We should also investigate NaCl at some point
https://developers.google.com/native-client/overview

On 4 Nov 2013, at 19:20, Steven Yi wrote:

> I'm very wary about Flash.  Adobe seems to be moving away from it now
> for a while, Apple actively dislikes it, and others seem to merely
> tolerate it.  With NPAPI going away, I don't know what the future of
> Flash will be.  I personally don't find it attractive to invest time
> into, but then again, it's been a long while since I did any Flash
> development and hence I have only followed it from the outside.  Seems
> to me that putting time into it would eventually be a loss as I think
> Flash is going to disappear within a few years.
> 
> On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 9:01 AM, Michael Gogins  wrote:
>> I have been following Steven Yi's reports on cross-compiling Csound to
>> JavaScript bytecode using Emscripten. I got curious and did some research,
>> and quickly found that Adobe has a similar initiative for ActionScript:
>> 
>>  http://adobe-flash.github.io/crossbridge/
>> 
>> CrossBridge has an online demo using Unreal Citadel that looks virtually
>> identical to the Emscripten demo. Does anyone have any experience with this?
>> 
>> Newer Flash runtimes support pthreads and OpenMP.
>> 
>> As you probably know, both JavaScript and ActionScript are forms, more or
>> less, of ECMAScript.
>> 
>> I quote the first part of their README.md below.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Mike
>> 
>> 
>> Crossbridge is the open-source version of Adobe FlasCC (formerly the Alchemy
>> project). It provides a complete C/C++ development environment for
>> targetting the Adobe Flash Runtime.
>> For more information about this project, please visit
>> http://adobe-flash.github.io/crossbridge/.
>> To get the latest release version, please visit the
>> http://sourceforge.net/projects/crossbridge/files/.
>> 
>> Features:
>> 
>> GCC 4.2 compiler with Flash backend.
>> GDB debugger that debugs your code while running in the Flash player.
>> SWIG backend that auto generates interop code allowing you to build Flash
>> libs (SWCs) that wrap C/C++ libraries.
>> pthread based multithreading (in Flash 11.5+)
>> Development
>> 
>> The master branch contains all of the code necessary to build crossbridge
>> 1.0.1, this is the current stable version. The future branch contains some
>> work in progress to upgrade the toolchain to LLVM 3.2 and switch to using
>> the Clang compiler instead of GCC.
>> 
>> Both the mac and cygwin SDKs are built on mac, you will need XCode and some
>> macports packages installed to be able to build (pkg-config, glib, and
>> mercurial).
>> 
>> Doing a "make" in the root directory should be sufficient to build just the
>> mac sdk, doing "make; make win; make deliverables" should build both mac and
>> windows and package them as dmg and zips
>> 
>> Future
>> 
>> Futures branch contains the upgrading code. Comparing to master, it will
>> mainly has
>> 
>> Clang/LLVM 3.2 toolchain
>> Freebsd 9.1 Environment
>> Libc++ with support of c++11 std.
>> 
>> ===========================
>> Michael Gogins
>> Irreducible Productions
>> http://michaelgogins.tumblr.com
>> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Android is increasing in popularity, but the open development platform that
>> developers love is also attractive to malware creators. Download this white
>> paper to learn more about secure code signing practices that can help keep
>> Android apps secure.
>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=65839951&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Android is increasing in popularity, but the open development platform that
> developers love is also attractive to malware creators. Download this white
> paper to learn more about secure code signing practices that can help keep
> Android apps secure.
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=65839951&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
> _______________________________________________
> Csound-devel mailing list
> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel

Dr Victor Lazzarini
Senior Lecturer
Dept. of Music
NUI Maynooth Ireland
tel.: +353 1 708 3545
Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie




------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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paper to learn more about secure code signing practices that can help keep
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It does have callback-based audio, which is a good start

https://developers.google.com/native-client/devguide/coding/audio

On 4 Nov 2013, at 19:27, Victor Lazzarini wrote:

> We should also investigate NaCl at some point
> https://developers.google.com/native-client/overview
> 
> On 4 Nov 2013, at 19:20, Steven Yi wrote:
> 
>> I'm very wary about Flash.  Adobe seems to be moving away from it now
>> for a while, Apple actively dislikes it, and others seem to merely
>> tolerate it.  With NPAPI going away, I don't know what the future of
>> Flash will be.  I personally don't find it attractive to invest time
>> into, but then again, it's been a long while since I did any Flash
>> development and hence I have only followed it from the outside.  Seems
>> to me that putting time into it would eventually be a loss as I think
>> Flash is going to disappear within a few years.
>> 
>> On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 9:01 AM, Michael Gogins  wrote:
>>> I have been following Steven Yi's reports on cross-compiling Csound to
>>> JavaScript bytecode using Emscripten. I got curious and did some research,
>>> and quickly found that Adobe has a similar initiative for ActionScript:
>>> 
>>> http://adobe-flash.github.io/crossbridge/
>>> 
>>> CrossBridge has an online demo using Unreal Citadel that looks virtually
>>> identical to the Emscripten demo. Does anyone have any experience with this?
>>> 
>>> Newer Flash runtimes support pthreads and OpenMP.
>>> 
>>> As you probably know, both JavaScript and ActionScript are forms, more or
>>> less, of ECMAScript.
>>> 
>>> I quote the first part of their README.md below.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Mike
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Crossbridge is the open-source version of Adobe FlasCC (formerly the Alchemy
>>> project). It provides a complete C/C++ development environment for
>>> targetting the Adobe Flash Runtime.
>>> For more information about this project, please visit
>>> http://adobe-flash.github.io/crossbridge/.
>>> To get the latest release version, please visit the
>>> http://sourceforge.net/projects/crossbridge/files/.
>>> 
>>> Features:
>>> 
>>> GCC 4.2 compiler with Flash backend.
>>> GDB debugger that debugs your code while running in the Flash player.
>>> SWIG backend that auto generates interop code allowing you to build Flash
>>> libs (SWCs) that wrap C/C++ libraries.
>>> pthread based multithreading (in Flash 11.5+)
>>> Development
>>> 
>>> The master branch contains all of the code necessary to build crossbridge
>>> 1.0.1, this is the current stable version. The future branch contains some
>>> work in progress to upgrade the toolchain to LLVM 3.2 and switch to using
>>> the Clang compiler instead of GCC.
>>> 
>>> Both the mac and cygwin SDKs are built on mac, you will need XCode and some
>>> macports packages installed to be able to build (pkg-config, glib, and
>>> mercurial).
>>> 
>>> Doing a "make" in the root directory should be sufficient to build just the
>>> mac sdk, doing "make; make win; make deliverables" should build both mac and
>>> windows and package them as dmg and zips
>>> 
>>> Future
>>> 
>>> Futures branch contains the upgrading code. Comparing to master, it will
>>> mainly has
>>> 
>>> Clang/LLVM 3.2 toolchain
>>> Freebsd 9.1 Environment
>>> Libc++ with support of c++11 std.
>>> 
>>> ===========================
>>> Michael Gogins
>>> Irreducible Productions
>>> http://michaelgogins.tumblr.com
>>> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Android is increasing in popularity, but the open development platform that
>>> developers love is also attractive to malware creators. Download this white
>>> paper to learn more about secure code signing practices that can help keep
>>> Android apps secure.
>>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=65839951&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Android is increasing in popularity, but the open development platform that
>> developers love is also attractive to malware creators. Download this white
>> paper to learn more about secure code signing practices that can help keep
>> Android apps secure.
>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=65839951&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
> 
> Dr Victor Lazzarini
> Senior Lecturer
> Dept. of Music
> NUI Maynooth Ireland
> tel.: +353 1 708 3545
> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Android is increasing in popularity, but the open development platform that
> developers love is also attractive to malware creators. Download this white
> paper to learn more about secure code signing practices that can help keep
> Android apps secure.
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=65839951&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
> _______________________________________________
> Csound-devel mailing list
> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel

Dr Victor Lazzarini
Senior Lecturer
Dept. of Music
NUI Maynooth Ireland
tel.: +353 1 708 3545
Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie




------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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developers love is also attractive to malware creators. Download this white
paper to learn more about secure code signing practices that can help keep
Android apps secure.
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=65839951&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
_______________________________________________
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In a way this is already achievable via Javasound and JAWS. We did a proof-of-concept study a couple of years ago that indicated it could be done, with
the java Csound wrapper with Csound linked statically in it. With natively compiled csound jnis, JAWS then delivers the correct JNI to each
client OS. 

Victor
On 4 Nov 2013, at 19:40, Michael Gogins wrote:

> What is motivating me here is the thought of something like Csound 6 for Android that runs on any browser, or at least on Chrome on any platform, and ties into JavaScript as well as into the browser's image, video, and above all audio facilities. It something a lot closer to a "universal" Csound application. And it would be easy to do user-defined widgets. Frankly, this could save us all a huge load of work.

Dr Victor Lazzarini
Senior Lecturer
Dept. of Music
NUI Maynooth Ireland
tel.: +353 1 708 3545
Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie




------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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developers love is also attractive to malware creators. Download this white
paper to learn more about secure code signing practices that can help keep
Android apps secure.
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Yes, but you still have one binary for each platform that way. This way, you have one binary for all platforms.

Regards,
Mike

One advantage of NaCl over pure Javascript is the audio implementation, which I reckon is faster (by the looks  of it).

Victor
On 5 Nov 2013, at 00:04, Michael Gogins wrote:

> This page:
> 
>   http://flohofwoe.blogspot.com/2013/08/emscripten-and-pnacl-build-systems.html
> 
> compares Emscripten to PNaCl.
> 
> The same demos will run either in Emscripten, or in PNaCL.
> 
> You have get the latest Google dev channel Chrome Canary to run PNaCl, at least on Windows.
> 
> This is very thought-provoking. You are watching two mature runtimes for bytecode compiled from C or C++.
> 
> According to the developer, using the latest Firefox gets even faster performance out of Emscripten. I am going to try that now...
> 
> Regards,
> Mike
> 
> 
> ===========================
> Michael Gogins
> Irreducible Productions
> http://michaelgogins.tumblr.com
> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
> 
> 
> On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 3:53 PM, Michael Gogins  wrote:
> Yes, but you still have one binary for each platform that way. This way, you have one binary for all platforms.
> 
> Regards, 
> Mike
> 
> On Nov 4, 2013 2:56 PM, "Victor Lazzarini"  wrote:
> In a way this is already achievable via Javasound and JAWS. We did a proof-of-concept study a couple of years ago that indicated it could be done, with
> the java Csound wrapper with Csound linked statically in it. With natively compiled csound jnis, JAWS then delivers the correct JNI to each
> client OS.
> 
> Victor
> On 4 Nov 2013, at 19:40, Michael Gogins wrote:
> 
> > What is motivating me here is the thought of something like Csound 6 for Android that runs on any browser, or at least on Chrome on any platform, and ties into JavaScript as well as into the browser's image, video, and above all audio facilities. It something a lot closer to a "universal" Csound application. And it would be easy to do user-defined widgets. Frankly, this could save us all a huge load of work.
> 
> Dr Victor Lazzarini
> Senior Lecturer
> Dept. of Music
> NUI Maynooth Ireland
> tel.: +353 1 708 3545
> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Android is increasing in popularity, but the open development platform that
> developers love is also attractive to malware creators. Download this white
> paper to learn more about secure code signing practices that can help keep
> Android apps secure.
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=65839951&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
> _______________________________________________
> Csound-devel mailing list
> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
> 
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Dr Victor Lazzarini
Senior Lecturer
Dept. of Music
NUI Maynooth Ireland
tel.: +353 1 708 3545
Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie




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There appear to be some differences with respect to threading. PNaCl looks better for threading.

I agree with Edward that standards are very, very important. One baseline assumption of Csound is that it rests upon software engineering and computer protocol standards.

I'd hate to gain a universal platform and lose parallel execution in Csound, however.

Here's what appears to be an informed comparison between asm.js (Emscripten with optimization, essentially) and PNaCl: http://games.greggman.com/game/thoughts-on-asm-js-vs-pnacl/

Regards,
Mike

===========================
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://michaelgogins.tumblr.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com

All in all, this sounds like a very good candidate for a Google "summer 
of Code" project. Good for Csound, good for Google.

I hope the emscripten work continues too, even with the threads 
limitation. Maybe HTML5 "worker" threads can be recruited for it? For 
schools, even a cut-down single-thread Csound in a browser would be a 
major resource, and available even on the single browser (IE, 
inevitably) which the majority of Schools have, um, standadized on.


Richard Dobson


On 05/11/2013 17:25, Michael Gogins wrote:
> There many Internet (and other software-related) standards that began as
> proprietary standards, then became accepted and standardized by the
> Internet community, whatever that is, which is the closest approximation
> to functioning cooperative socialism that the world has yet experienced.
>
> When PNaCl is enabled by default in the standard edition of Chrome that
> people download on all platforms, that is when we will see if PNaCl
> becomes a true standard.
>
> And as you say, if that happens, then building Csound for PNaCl will be
> a no-brainer. As, probably, the primary target.
>
> BUT NOTE: In the meantime, with my current Chrome installed in the
> office, Version 30.0.1599.101 m, if I start it up with the
> --enable-pnacl flag, it will run the PNaCl demo code just fine. So in
> reality, this is already out there, just not turned on by default.


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I don't understand. Freom the original thread ("Csound on the Web....") 
Edward and Steven are working on emscripten, so that is at the very 
least a team of two. So I see no expectation or assumption that you (or 
anyone) would be doing both. Both seem like eminently (and 
independently) teamable projects. I have only become aware of them 
through these threads, so am in no position to contribute, need to do a 
bit of learning first. But if there has to be a choice, I guess I would 
vote for Emscripten simply because of the (almost) browser-independence. 
It also seems further along. There is a very cool demo of Gnuplot 
running under it, among other things.

Richard Dobson

On 05/11/2013 18:52, Michael Gogins wrote:
> Doing both PNaCl and Emscripten is way too much for me... if I do
> anything it will be one, or the other.
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
>


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I'd note that with the Csound build we're working on, the source of
timing that is driving Csound would be the Web Audio node's own audio
callback, at least for this version.  Not having threads isn't great,
but we can live without it for the short term. Long term, I spoke on
IRC with a developer who was working on implementing pthreads for
emscripten, but it sounded like it would be a while before there was
something to try out.

I don't know IE's status regarding web audio.  It might be the odd one
out in all of this.

On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Richard Dobson
 wrote:
> All in all, this sounds like a very good candidate for a Google "summer
> of Code" project. Good for Csound, good for Google.
>
> I hope the emscripten work continues too, even with the threads
> limitation. Maybe HTML5 "worker" threads can be recruited for it? For
> schools, even a cut-down single-thread Csound in a browser would be a
> major resource, and available even on the single browser (IE,
> inevitably) which the majority of Schools have, um, standadized on.
>
>
> Richard Dobson
>
>
> On 05/11/2013 17:25, Michael Gogins wrote:
>> There many Internet (and other software-related) standards that began as
>> proprietary standards, then became accepted and standardized by the
>> Internet community, whatever that is, which is the closest approximation
>> to functioning cooperative socialism that the world has yet experienced.
>>
>> When PNaCl is enabled by default in the standard edition of Chrome that
>> people download on all platforms, that is when we will see if PNaCl
>> becomes a true standard.
>>
>> And as you say, if that happens, then building Csound for PNaCl will be
>> a no-brainer. As, probably, the primary target.
>>
>> BUT NOTE: In the meantime, with my current Chrome installed in the
>> office, Version 30.0.1599.101 m, if I start it up with the
>> --enable-pnacl flag, it will run the PNaCl demo code just fine. So in
>> reality, this is already out there, just not turned on by default.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> November Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers
> Accelerate application performance with scalable programming models. Explore
> techniques for threading, error checking, porting, and tuning. Get the most
> from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60136231&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
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I think if we add an access layer, similar to CsoundObj, we might be
able to sufficiently hide the implementation, such that one could use
one or the other.  That would protect anyone using either moving
forward.  But first thing is to get this Emscripten thing working. :)

On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 1:52 PM, Michael Gogins  wrote:
> Doing both PNaCl and Emscripten is way too much for me... if I do anything
> it will be one, or the other.
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
>
> ===========================
> Michael Gogins
> Irreducible Productions
> http://michaelgogins.tumblr.com
> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Richard Dobson
>  wrote:
>>
>> All in all, this sounds like a very good candidate for a Google "summer
>> of Code" project. Good for Csound, good for Google.
>>
>> I hope the emscripten work continues too, even with the threads
>> limitation. Maybe HTML5 "worker" threads can be recruited for it? For
>> schools, even a cut-down single-thread Csound in a browser would be a
>> major resource, and available even on the single browser (IE,
>> inevitably) which the majority of Schools have, um, standadized on.
>>
>>
>> Richard Dobson
>>
>>
>> On 05/11/2013 17:25, Michael Gogins wrote:
>> > There many Internet (and other software-related) standards that began as
>> > proprietary standards, then became accepted and standardized by the
>> > Internet community, whatever that is, which is the closest approximation
>> > to functioning cooperative socialism that the world has yet experienced.
>> >
>> > When PNaCl is enabled by default in the standard edition of Chrome that
>> > people download on all platforms, that is when we will see if PNaCl
>> > becomes a true standard.
>> >
>> > And as you say, if that happens, then building Csound for PNaCl will be
>> > a no-brainer. As, probably, the primary target.
>> >
>> > BUT NOTE: In the meantime, with my current Chrome installed in the
>> > office, Version 30.0.1599.101 m, if I start it up with the
>> > --enable-pnacl flag, it will run the PNaCl demo code just fine. So in
>> > reality, this is already out there, just not turned on by default.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
>
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> Accelerate application performance with scalable programming models. Explore
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> from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and
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November Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers
Accelerate application performance with scalable programming models. Explore
techniques for threading, error checking, porting, and tuning. Get the most 
from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register
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But is that really using PNaCl? It clearly requires Flash.

Richard Dobson


On 06/11/2013 15:56, Stephen Kyne wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Interesting discussion. I've looked at PNaCL before and tinkered with
> the SDK a bit.
> Some of the examples are very impressive. Something related  to Csound
> might be audiotool.
> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/audiotool/bkgoccjhfjgjedhkiefaclppgbmoobnk
>


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
November Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers
Accelerate application performance with scalable programming models. Explore
techniques for threading, error checking, porting, and tuning. Get the most 
from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60136231&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
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