(no it's not to with his plans for mathematics...)

anyway, after almost going crazy checking and
rechecking my equations, I realised that the
Hilbert transform filter seems to have its
outputs the wrong way round. What is the
cosine output is the sine output and vice-versa.
(No wonder I could not get some ideas to work
properly.)

Can someone double-check this before we fix it?
(I used a sine input and checked the two signals
against each other. The 2nd output was in the
cosine phase against the 1st one in the sine
phase, but at this point I might be wrong).

This also explains why the example in the manual
has its up and down shifts the wrong way round too.

Victor

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(no it's not Goedel going about stuff...)

Still waiting for someone to reply on this. I rechecked and
the outputs are definitely reversed. Now how do we deal with
it: change the code or change the manual?

The former will break backward compatibility, but just changing the
manual will make it not very intuitive (outs being
imag, real instead of real,imag).

Victor

At 16:57 19/10/2007, you wrote:
>(no it's not to with his plans for mathematics...)
>
>anyway, after almost going crazy checking and
>rechecking my equations, I realised that the
>Hilbert transform filter seems to have its
>outputs the wrong way round. What is the
>cosine output is the sine output and vice-versa.
>(No wonder I could not get some ideas to work
>properly.)
>
>Can someone double-check this before we fix it?
>(I used a sine input and checked the two signals
>against each other. The 2nd output was in the
>cosine phase against the 1st one in the sine
>phase, but at this point I might be wrong).
>
>This also explains why the example in the manual
>has its up and down shifts the wrong way round too.
>
>Victor
>
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Victor Lazzarini
Music Technology Laboratory
Music Department
National University of Ireland, Maynooth


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I would say change the code.

If any orchestras out there are unconsciously relying on an undocumented
"feature" that is the exact opposite of what the documentation implies -
then surely those orchestras (and not an improved Csound or its
documentation) should be considered "problematic" rather than "normative".

Conversely, if any orchestras out there are _consciously_ relying on the
reversed outputs, it would beg the question of why their authors did not
raise the code/documentation mismatch with the Csound community at the
time...  (But probably there are no such orchestras.)

Yours truly,
David

Victor Lazzarini wrote:
> (no it's not Goedel going about stuff...)
> 
> Still waiting for someone to reply on this. I rechecked and
> the outputs are definitely reversed. Now how do we deal with
> it: change the code or change the manual?
> 
> The former will break backward compatibility, but just changing the
> manual will make it not very intuitive (outs being
> imag, real instead of real,imag).
> 
> Victor
> 
> At 16:57 19/10/2007, you wrote:
>> (no it's not to with his plans for mathematics...)
>>
>> anyway, after almost going crazy checking and
>> rechecking my equations, I realised that the
>> Hilbert transform filter seems to have its
>> outputs the wrong way round. What is the
>> cosine output is the sine output and vice-versa.
>> (No wonder I could not get some ideas to work
>> properly.)
>>
>> Can someone double-check this before we fix it?
>> (I used a sine input and checked the two signals
>> against each other. The 2nd output was in the
>> cosine phase against the 1st one in the sine
>> phase, but at this point I might be wrong).
>>
>> This also explains why the example in the manual
>> has its up and down shifts the wrong way round too.
>>
>> Victor
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc.
>> Still grepping through log files to find problems?  Stop.
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>> _______________________________________________
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>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
> 
> Victor Lazzarini
> Music Technology Laboratory
> Music Department
> National University of Ireland, Maynooth
> 
> 
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I would prefer to fix the code and add a warning in the manual, rather as 
Steven says
==John ff



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Hi,

While taking care of backlogged manual issues, I found this note about
the hilbert bug, I can't understand if documentation should be changed
or not, since the comments that were changed in the code in
opocdes/ugsc.c seem to suggest that documentation should change as well.

Can someone confirm?

Cheers,
Andrés

El jue, 25-10-2007 a las 08:42 -0700, Steven Yi escribió:
> I'm with David and am for the change. We should probably put a big
> WARNING in the manual notifying the non-backwards compatible change
> (and I would suggest we create a new manual page just for
> non-backwards compatible changes.  It could have tables for each
> version that has a non-backwards compatible change and then lists the
> change, description, and suggestion for how to modify old code).
> 
> steven
> 
> On 10/25/07, David Ogborn  wrote:
> > I would say change the code.
> >
> > If any orchestras out there are unconsciously relying on an undocumented
> > "feature" that is the exact opposite of what the documentation implies -
> > then surely those orchestras (and not an improved Csound or its
> > documentation) should be considered "problematic" rather than "normative".
> >
> > Conversely, if any orchestras out there are _consciously_ relying on the
> > reversed outputs, it would beg the question of why their authors did not
> > raise the code/documentation mismatch with the Csound community at the
> > time...  (But probably there are no such orchestras.)
> >
> > Yours truly,
> > David
> >
> > Victor Lazzarini wrote:
> > > (no it's not Goedel going about stuff...)
> > >
> > > Still waiting for someone to reply on this. I rechecked and
> > > the outputs are definitely reversed. Now how do we deal with
> > > it: change the code or change the manual?
> > >
> > > The former will break backward compatibility, but just changing the
> > > manual will make it not very intuitive (outs being
> > > imag, real instead of real,imag).
> > >
> > > Victor
> > >
> > > At 16:57 19/10/2007, you wrote:
> > >> (no it's not to with his plans for mathematics...)
> > >>
> > >> anyway, after almost going crazy checking and
> > >> rechecking my equations, I realised that the
> > >> Hilbert transform filter seems to have its
> > >> outputs the wrong way round. What is the
> > >> cosine output is the sine output and vice-versa.
> > >> (No wonder I could not get some ideas to work
> > >> properly.)
> > >>
> > >> Can someone double-check this before we fix it?
> > >> (I used a sine input and checked the two signals
> > >> against each other. The 2nd output was in the
> > >> cosine phase against the 1st one in the sine
> > >> phase, but at this point I might be wrong).
> > >>
> > >> This also explains why the example in the manual
> > >> has its up and down shifts the wrong way round too.
> > >>
> > >> Victor
> > >>
> > >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc.
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> > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
> > >
> > > Victor Lazzarini
> > > Music Technology Laboratory
> > > Music Department
> > > National University of Ireland, Maynooth
> > >
> > >
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