Is it possible to find MacCsound sources anywhere (is it
open-source at all?)

I was hoping to have a look at them to see if the program
can be converted to using the Csound 5 API. It would be
good, for the sake of new users, to have a flashy program to
show off csound 5. I am conscious of Richard Boulanger's
opinions about usability, which he discussed in his keynote
and in conversation with us.

Ideally Matt Ingalls would be the person to do this, but he seems
very busy at the moment (is he on this list?).

Victor Lazzarini
Music Technology Laboratory
Music Department
National University of Ireland, Maynooth 



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Following this thread closely....


-David

On Dec 15, 2005, at 9:25 AM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:

> Is it possible to find MacCsound sources anywhere (is it
> open-source at all?)
>
> I was hoping to have a look at them to see if the program
> can be converted to using the Csound 5 API. It would be
> good, for the sake of new users, to have a flashy program to
> show off csound 5. I am conscious of Richard Boulanger's
> opinions about usability, which he discussed in his keynote
> and in conversation with us.
>
> Ideally Matt Ingalls would be the person to do this, but he seems
> very busy at the moment (is he on this list?).
>
> Victor Lazzarini
> Music Technology Laboratory
> Music Department
> National University of Ireland, Maynooth



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Victor Lazzarini wrote on 12/15/05 9:25 AM:

> Is it possible to find MacCsound sources anywhere (is it
> open-source at all?)

To the best of my knowledge, Matt has never made the source code to the
MacCsound GUI publicly available.  He did inquire nearly a year ago about
what source code he was obligated to release:

On 1/21/05 4:40 PM, Matt Ingalls  wrote:

> anyway if not, i can do it -- i know a couple of times i tried to look
> at and figure out
> what i needed to do to be "legit" but never got all the way through it..

If my reading of the LGPL is correct, Matt does not have to release source
code or object code for MacCsound since it links to CsoundLib using a
dynamic library mechanism.  Of course, I believe that the community will
greatly benefit it he chooses to release it anyways.

I am still hoping that Matt will eventually release the full source code and
project files for the modified versions of CsoundLib 4.23fxx and
command-line Csound that he has been distributing.  He has made important
additions to the CoreAudio and CoreMidi support that would be beneficial for
the rest of us to be able to see.

Anthony Kozar
anthonykozar AT sbcglobal DOT net
http://akozar.spymac.com/



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I think it would be great to at least see the sources dealing with 
CoreAudio / CoreMIDI - then there could be a native CoreMIDI driver on 
OS X that parallels the development of the native-ALSA driver on Linux. 
Such an asset would certainly prove most efficient on Apple specific 
platforms running variants of Mac OS 10.


-David

On Dec 15, 2005, at 3:25 PM, Istvan Varga wrote:

> On Thursday 15 December 2005 20:04, Anthony Kozar wrote:
>
>> If my reading of the LGPL is correct, Matt does not have to release 
>> source
>> code or object code for MacCsound since it links to CsoundLib using a
>> dynamic library mechanism.  Of course, I believe that the community 
>> will
>> greatly benefit it he chooses to release it anyways.
>
> Is the CsoundLib he uses an original, unmodified version of canonical
> Csound ? If not, then any changes made to the canonical sources should
> be released.



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hey there,

i am lurking, but definitely cannot keep up
[ looks like i currently have 1021 unread messages.. ]

i actually was hoping to get to csound5 api over the holidays
for both maccsound and csound~

the csoundlib i distribute should be the same as what is in cvs,
with probably some minor changes i either forgot/too lazy
to merge in - at this point it would be best use of
time to just move to csound5


Matt;
________________________
           matt  ingalls
http://sonomatics.com



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Matt Ingalls wrote on 12/15/05 5:13 PM:

> i actually was hoping to get to csound5 api over the holidays
> for both maccsound and csound~

That would be great Matt!  Having MacCsound using the Cs5 API will be a big
step forward for Csound on OS X.

In doing so I hope that you will be able to use the Csound library as is.
In other words, if you use the Csound framework distribution that Victor is
creating for OS X, then you will not have to recompile the Csound library at
all and you can concentrate on making changes to MacCsound.

> the csoundlib i distribute should be the same as what is in cvs,
> with probably some minor changes i either forgot/too lazy
> to merge in - at this point it would be best use of
> time to just move to csound5

Just to be clear, in what follows, I am not attempting to be -- nor do I
want to be -- the "license police."  But I feel it is important to point out
a few things.

I would like to mention here that even recompiling the source code of an
"original" release of a GPL or LGPL program is making a modified version.

And when distributing a modified binary (including just recompiling
identical source code), you must then distribute the source code in the same
manner and from the same place (see section 4 of the LGPL).  (Strangely,
some of the GPL's provisions for making and passing on written offers to
provide source code are missing from the LGPL).

Thus, I would conclude that compiling the Csound sources from CVS and
distributing the resulting binary from "somewhere else" requires that the
distributor also redistribute the source code, even though the source has
not been modified in any way.

My understanding of these issues is based on the Free Software Foundation's
"GPL FAQ".  Although these questions and answers refer to the GPL, I believe
that the distribution clauses in the LGPL are similar enough.  Here are some
relevant paragraphs:

    "Can I put the binaries on my Internet server and put the source on
    a different Internet site?

    "The GPL says you must offer access to copy the source code "from
    the same place"; that is, next to the binaries. However, if you
    make arrangements with another site to keep the necessary source
    code available, and put a link or cross-reference to the source
    code next to the binaries, we think that qualifies as "from the
    same place".

    "Note, however, that it is not enough to find some site that
    happens to have the appropriate source code today, and tell people
    to look there. Tomorrow that site may have deleted that source
    code, or simply replaced it with a newer version of the same
    program. Then you would no longer be complying with the GPL
    requirements. To make a reasonable effort to comply, you need to
    make a positive arrangement with the other site, and thus ensure
    that the source will be available there for as long as you keep
    the binaries available."

From: 



I understand that as a volunteer developer with limited time that it can be
difficult to fully comply with the LGPL.  I have not always been in full
compliance at all times myself (and may still not be).

One of the primary reasons though that I have asked Matt in the past to post
his sources has been to get copies of the IDE projects and OS-specific code
(CoreMidi, etc), so that I would not have to recreate everything from
scratch.

There has unfortunately been much duplication of effort by Csound developers
in the past.  I hope that we can avoid it in the future.

Anthony Kozar
anthonykozar AT sbcglobal DOT net
http://akozar.spymac.com/




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That's what we need, great. If you can do it, then we are
complete. We hope to release the framework very soon, so
you have something to build on.

Victor

At 22:13 15/12/2005, you wrote:
>hey there,
>
>i am lurking, but definitely cannot keep up
>[ looks like i currently have 1021 unread messages.. ]
>
>i actually was hoping to get to csound5 api over the holidays
>for both maccsound and csound~
>
>the csoundlib i distribute should be the same as what is in cvs,
>with probably some minor changes i either forgot/too lazy
>to merge in - at this point it would be best use of
>time to just move to csound5
>
>
>Matt;
>________________________
>           matt  ingalls
>http://sonomatics.com
>
>
>
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Victor Lazzarini
Music Technology Laboratory
Music Department
National University of Ireland, Maynooth 



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