I'm happy with 95%. (And I wouldn't trust 100%.)

You've got a great vision. I'm with it 100%, and hope to live to see it
largely realized - assuming it to be possible. I'll have to take your word
for that.

Meanwhile, my world is primarily one of more mundane concerns: getting FLjoy
to work in AV as in other Windows Csounds, getting working MME and
DirectSound drivers in CS5, dealing with -+P0 in AV with new vs. old
Portaudio, getting simultaneous MIDI input devices working in my
compositions.

All these are *now* issues for me. I've addressed all but the last with
those who might do something about them. The last I've been able to solve
somewhat on my own - but thanks to the list for suggesting MIDIOx and
MIDIYoke, which have given part of the solution.

Hope you wonderful and talented developers (all of you) don't mind my
continued bugging. I know I couldn't do what I've been doing without your
valued help and support. If and when my demands and challenges go too far,
just let me know, and I'll attempt to restrain myself. (Just don't expect me
to go away! I'll always speak my piece.)

Art Hunkins
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Gogins" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] New file release for Csound 5 and CsoundVST on Windows


> OK, now we agree 95%.
>
> I agree that some maintenance would need to be done on platform-specific
versions of Csound, even if their developers became Csound 5 developers.
>
> But as for platform-specific advantages, there is no reason for them to
exist. Platform-specific advantages can be incorporated into Csound 5 using
loadable modules or plugins. As far as I know, there is no platform-specific
advantage that could NOT so be incorporated.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Art Hunkins 
> Sent: Mar 11, 2005 12:44 PM
> To: csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] New file release for Csound 5 and CsoundVST on Windo
ws
>
> Mike, I'm 90% with you on this.
>
> In two points I differ:
>
> 1) Specialized versions like CsoundAV still need attention and maintenance
> (by one developer each!), as they need some updating and occasional
> bug-swatting. (Gab is involved in both these areas currently.) This is the
> *now*.
>
> 2) Specialized versions will IMO always enjoy some advantage over
> cross-platform versions, particularly where real-time, graphics, MIDI are
> involved. Different platforms handle these areas differently, as you know
> far better than I.
>
> So I think that specialized versions may *always* fill particular needs,
and
> be more appropriate to particular conditions (such as more "user-friendly"
> on a given platform, better for real-time in Windows, etc.) "One size fits
> all" may only work in certain general respects.
>
> Art Hunkins
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Gogins" 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 11:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] New file release for Csound 5 and CsoundVST on
Windows
>
>
> > Of course I am not advocating that you cease using tools that work for
> you.
> >
> > But I am advocating that Gabriel Maldonado, Matt Ingalls, and others who
> have developed these tools stop developing their personal variants of
Csound
> and begin contributing to Csound 5.
> >
> > (I will not be angry with them or think they are fools if they don't do
> this, because I don't take these things personally.)
> >
> > When I came on board Csound 5, I speeded up its development
considerably.
> When Istvan Varga became a Csound 5 developer, the pace of development
> accelerated even more.  If Gabriel and Matt become Csound 5 developers,
the
> pace of development should increase yet more. And our efforts will no
longer
> be duplicated, leading to an increase in the introduction of new features
> and the elimination of more bugs.
> >
> > After all, I used to maintain my own version of Csound.  Stopping doing
> that was one of the smartest things I have ever done. I still have to fix
a
> few things in CsoundVST that get broken by other Csound 5 developers, but
> the number of things I have to fix and the duplication of effort that I
must
> make has been cut to a fraction of what it was. The time that I have left,
I
> have been using either to create new features (such as the ID tags
options,
> re-introducing Maurizio Puxeddu's Python opcodes, porting the Loris
opcodes,
> helping Andres Cabrera with the VST wrapper opcodes, working with Steven
Yi
> on the Fluidsynth opcodes), improving the manual, or to.... compose! Wow!
> >
> > If this happens, then of course you can continue to use CsoundAV or
> whatever until Csound 5 is in a state that satisfies you. None of this
> activity can harm you or your work in any way. Adding to Csound 5 does not
> subtract from CsoundAV or MacCsound.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Art Hunkins 
> > Sent: Mar 11, 2005 11:38 AM
> > To: csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] New file release for Csound 5 and CsoundVST on
> Windows
> >
> > True - though you developers individually will need to make that
decision.
> > And I'll have to make my own decisions about the platforms I choose and
> how
> > I relate to the cross-platform issue.
> >
> > There is certainly *much* to be said for platform-specific versions of
> > Csound, particularly for real-time work. Examples: 1) it will be a long
> time
> > before realtime audio output on Csound5 approaches the simplicity,
> > dependability and low latency, etc. of CsoundAV; 2) as Istvan admits
> below,
> > it's a lot easier to come up with defaults that suit Windows realtime,
> than
> > ones that suit all platforms (thus requiring the user to have to "fool"
> with
> > what should be default settings. I'm *still* waiting for the -B flag
> > requirement to become optional in CS5 - and, yes, it's very much a
hassle
> > for me. We need defaults!)
> >
> > I'll personally address AV issues directly with Gab Maldonado (as I am
> > currently), and CS5 issues generally with the developer group (as here).
> The
> > AV world is *now*; CS5 is more and more the future.
> >
> > You mention "by the end of the year." I *hope* to be composing by then,
> but
> > I'm actually composing (and living) right now - and I must work with the
> > tools I've got and when I have the (God-given) time to use them.
> >
> > So, God bless Gab Maldonado and CsoundAV - and for that matter, Matt
> Ingalls
> > and MacCsound. (There are others who feel just as dedicated to these
> > specialized programs as I do.) Their efforts - *continuing* efforts -
make
> > it possible for many of us *actually to compose with Csound*.
> >
> > Of course, God bless you other developers too. You are a very important
> part
> > of our future. Hopefully, CS5 will reach the same level of performance
and
> > user-friendliness for Windows and Mac users that CsoundAV and MacCsound
> have
> > enjoyed for some time now.
> >
> > Art Hunkins
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Michael Gogins" 
> > To: 
> > Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 9:34 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] New file release for Csound 5 and CsoundVST on
> Windows
> >
> >
> > > Not only that, if but the developers of various versions pooled their
> > efforts on csound 5, we would have a superior version that works on all
> > platforms before the end of this year. And there would not be anything
> else
> > in computer music remotely as powerful.
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Istvan Varga 
> > > Sent: Mar 11, 2005 7:03 AM
> > > To: csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] New file release for Csound 5 and CsoundVST on
> > Windows
> > >
> > > Art Hunkins wrote:
> > >
> > > > in CsoundAV (in contrast to all others) I *never* have to fool
> > >  > with buffer settings.
> > >
> > > CsoundAV does not, and will probably never run on anything other
> > > than Windows, making it much easier to find default buffer settings.
> > >
> > > > In CS5 Windows, the buffer issue is quite unclear and changing
> > >
> > > More details on this ?
> > >
> > >  > plus seems to be different on different platforms.
> > >
> > > Well, but Csound5 at least actually runs on different platforms.
> > > And things like buffer settings are highly machine dependent.
> > >
> > > > Also, since only ASIO is implemented, regular soundcard users have
to
> > >  > install and configure ASIO4ALL.
> > >
> > > PortAudio is not limited to ASIO, it also supports DirectSound and MME
> > > (as well as WDM but that is experimental). You may want to ask Michael
> > > Gogins to include a PortAudio module that is compiled to use
DirectSound
> > > in the next Windows file release.
> > >
> > > > I'll also add that Gab Maldonado has been active in maintaining and
> > > > debugging CsoundAV, and personally responsive to my particular needs
> > (i.e.,
> > > > realtime performance).
> > >
> > > Now if only all the efforts on maintaining the various platform
specific
> > > Csound variants derived from old versions of Csound4 would be spent on
> > > Csound5, we would eventually get one good version instead of several
> > > broken ones, all with their own set of bugs that have been fixed in
> > others.
> > > And the fact is that in recent years CsoundAV was only actively
> developed
> > > in the areas of real time audio, OpenGL, and FLTK, while core language
> > > support is still only 4.19.
> > >
> > >
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