I have ritten manual pages for the various array/vector operations, but
the examples are very weak being no more that formal exercoses.  We need
more musically useful examples.  I know some of you have been using
t-vars; could you propose better examples?

For example for fill, maxtab, mintab, sumtab, scalet, tabgen, tabslice,
tabmap, copy2ttab, copy2ftab and lentab

==John ff


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Hi guys. I find the names of these operators slightly iffy. Won't most users see 'tab' and assume these are for manipulating tables, not arrays/vectors? For example lentab would be the first thing I would try if I wanted to find the length of a table. Could each tab be replaced with array or vector perhaps? Of is it already a little late for this?   

On 27 April 2013 10:12, <jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk> wrote:

I have ritten manual pages for the various array/vector operations, but
the examples are very weak being no more that formal exercoses.  We need
more musically useful examples.  I know some of you have been using
t-vars; could you propose better examples?

For example for fill, maxtab, mintab, sumtab, scalet, tabgen, tabslice,
tabmap, copy2ttab, copy2ftab and lentab

==John ff


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hi john -

thanks for the request. i'd like to try this for some of the opcodes. 
will send you when i have put something together. i know that tarmo did 
a lot of examples, too. perhaps he can send some of them.

best -

	joachim


Am 27.04.2013 11:12, schrieb jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk:
> I have ritten manual pages for the various array/vector operations, but
> the examples are very weak being no more that formal exercoses.  We need
> more musically useful examples.  I know some of you have been using
> t-vars; could you propose better examples?
>
> For example for fill, maxtab, mintab, sumtab, scalet, tabgen, tabslice,
> tabmap, copy2ttab, copy2ftab and lentab
>
> ==John ff
>
>
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i think such an alias would be very useful.

what about starting with "arr"? so we had
arrfill
arrmax
arrmin
and so on.

it is like working with "the pvs opcodes". very useful to see them under 
these first three characters.

best -

	joachim


Am 27.04.2013 12:37, schrieb Victor:
> The reason is that these were there in Csound 5 with tvars, so they got
> the name from it. Possibly a solution is to provide aliases for all of
> them with array in the name.
>
>
>
> On 27 Apr 2013, at 11:15, Rory Walsh  > wrote:
>
>> Hi guys. I find the names of these operators slightly iffy. Won't most
>> users see 'tab' and assume these are for manipulating tables, not
>> arrays/vectors? For example lentab would be the first thing I would
>> try if I wanted to find the length of a table. Could each tab be
>> replaced with array or vector perhaps? Of is it already a little late
>> for this?
>>
>>
>> On 27 April 2013 10:12, > > wrote:
>>
>>     I have ritten manual pages for the various array/vector
>>     operations, but
>>     the examples are very weak being no more that formal exercoses.
>>      We need
>>     more musically useful examples.  I know some of you have been using
>>     t-vars; could you propose better examples?
>>
>>     For example for fill, maxtab, mintab, sumtab, scalet, tabgen,
>>     tabslice,
>>     tabmap, copy2ttab, copy2ftab and lentab
>>
>>     ==John ff
>>
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I like the idea of aliases.  Since polymorphism is a lot easier now
with CS6, could we just use:

max
min
scale
fill

etc?  Seems clear enough to me, and we can just be sure to organize
them in the manual within a category for "Array Operations".

On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 1:16 PM, joachim heintz  wrote:
> i think such an alias would be very useful.
>
> what about starting with "arr"? so we had
> arrfill
> arrmax
> arrmin
> and so on.
>
> it is like working with "the pvs opcodes". very useful to see them under
> these first three characters.
>
> best -
>
>         joachim
>
>
> Am 27.04.2013 12:37, schrieb Victor:
>> The reason is that these were there in Csound 5 with tvars, so they got
>> the name from it. Possibly a solution is to provide aliases for all of
>> them with array in the name.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 27 Apr 2013, at 11:15, Rory Walsh > > wrote:
>>
>>> Hi guys. I find the names of these operators slightly iffy. Won't most
>>> users see 'tab' and assume these are for manipulating tables, not
>>> arrays/vectors? For example lentab would be the first thing I would
>>> try if I wanted to find the length of a table. Could each tab be
>>> replaced with array or vector perhaps? Of is it already a little late
>>> for this?
>>>
>>>
>>> On 27 April 2013 10:12, >> > wrote:
>>>
>>>     I have ritten manual pages for the various array/vector
>>>     operations, but
>>>     the examples are very weak being no more that formal exercoses.
>>>      We need
>>>     more musically useful examples.  I know some of you have been using
>>>     t-vars; could you propose better examples?
>>>
>>>     For example for fill, maxtab, mintab, sumtab, scalet, tabgen,
>>>     tabslice,
>>>     tabmap, copy2ttab, copy2ftab and lentab
>>>
>>>     ==John ff
>>>
>>>
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oh yes, there are a lot (atone, abs ...).

Am 27.04.2013 14:26, schrieb Rory Walsh:
> I don't think opcodes can start with an a, or?
>
>
> On 27 April 2013 13:16, joachim heintz  > wrote:
>
>     i think such an alias would be very useful.
>
>     what about starting with "arr"? so we had
>     arrfill
>     arrmax
>     arrmin
>     and so on.
>
>     it is like working with "the pvs opcodes". very useful to see them under
>     these first three characters.
>
>     best -
>
>              joachim
>
>
>     Am 27.04.2013 12 :37, schrieb Victor:
>      > The reason is that these were there in Csound 5 with tvars, so
>     they got
>      > the name from it. Possibly a solution is to provide aliases for
>     all of
>      > them with array in the name.
>      >
>      >
>      >
>      > On 27 Apr 2013, at 11:15, Rory Walsh      
>      > >> wrote:
>      >
>      >> Hi guys. I find the names of these operators slightly iffy.
>     Won't most
>      >> users see 'tab' and assume these are for manipulating tables, not
>      >> arrays/vectors? For example lentab would be the first thing I would
>      >> try if I wanted to find the length of a table. Could each tab be
>      >> replaced with array or vector perhaps? Of is it already a little
>     late
>      >> for this?
>      >>
>      >>
>      >> On 27 April 2013 10:12,      
>      >> >> wrote:
>      >>
>      >>     I have ritten manual pages for the various array/vector
>      >>     operations, but
>      >>     the examples are very weak being no more that formal exercoses.
>      >>      We need
>      >>     more musically useful examples.  I know some of you have
>     been using
>      >>     t-vars; could you propose better examples?
>      >>
>      >>     For example for fill, maxtab, mintab, sumtab, scalet, tabgen,
>      >>     tabslice,
>      >>     tabmap, copy2ttab, copy2ftab and lentab
>      >>
>      >>     ==John ff
>      >>
>      >>
>      >>
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> i think such an alias would be very useful.
>
> what about starting with "arr"? so we had
> arrfill
> arrmax
> arrmin
> and so on.
>

We should not define new opcodes with names begining with a (or i, k, or f)



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> oh yes, there are a lot (atone, abs ...).
>

They are original so cannot break pieces



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fillarray
maxarray
minarray

etc?
On 27 Apr 2013, at 14:10, jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk wrote:

>> i think such an alias would be very useful.
>> 
>> what about starting with "arr"? so we had
>> arrfill
>> arrmax
>> arrmin
>> and so on.
>> 
> 
> We should not define new opcodes with names begining with a (or i, k, or f)
> 
> 
> 
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Dr Victor Lazzarini
Senior Lecturer
Dept. of Music
NUI Maynooth Ireland
tel.: +353 1 708 3545
Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie




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I have to believe there's a way to get around this.  If variable
definitions can have higher precedence than opcode names, then they
can shadow opcodes, and that would preserve backwards compatibility I
think.  This seems common enough in other programming languages.

The problem we have currently is that opcode names are used in the
parser.  If the grammar could be more generic, made to only use
identifiers instead of T_IDENT, T_OPCODE and T_OPCODE0, then we can do
the lookup in the semantic checking part of the compiler instead.
This would also get rid of the grammar hack for labels, which in turn
should clean up the semantic checker which has to currently disregard
what the parser marks up in places due to the label hack.

I had been meaning to look research if the grammar could be redone
with just identifier, but haven't had time yet.  I think it would be
beneficial in the long run if we can make that work.

On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 2:10 PM,   wrote:
>> i think such an alias would be very useful.
>>
>> what about starting with "arr"? so we had
>> arrfill
>> arrmax
>> arrmin
>> and so on.
>>
>
> We should not define new opcodes with names begining with a (or i, k, or f)
>
>
>
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Lots of renaming done and deprecated tab opcode names

> fillarray
> maxarray
> minarray
>
> etc?
> On 27 Apr 2013, at 14:10, jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk wrote:
>
>>> i think such an alias would be very useful.
>>>
>>> what about starting with "arr"? so we had
>>> arrfill
>>> arrmax
>>> arrmin
>>> and so on.
>>>
>>
>> We should not define new opcodes with names begining with a (or i, k, or
>> f)
>>
>>
>>
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>
> Dr Victor Lazzarini
> Senior Lecturer
> Dept. of Music
> NUI Maynooth Ireland
> tel.: +353 1 708 3545
> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie
>
>
>
>
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>
>



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i started with an example for the fill opcode and saw that it currently 
only works for k-arrays. can it be expanded to work with i-, S-, and 
a-arrays, too?

by the way, the k-version is great because it implicitely declares an 
array of the length of the elements which are filled in. so everything 
needed is something like
kArr[] fill 1,-7.12345, sqrt(2) -
without any preceding
kArr[] init 3

hope this can be the same for the i-, S- and a-version, too. best -

	joachim




Am 27.04.2013 20:56, schrieb jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk:
> Lots of renaming done and deprecated tab opcode names
>
>> fillarray
>> maxarray
>> minarray
>>
>> etc?
>> On 27 Apr 2013, at 14:10, jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk wrote:
>>
>>>> i think such an alias would be very useful.
>>>>
>>>> what about starting with "arr"? so we had
>>>> arrfill
>>>> arrmax
>>>> arrmin
>>>> and so on.
>>>>
>>>
>>> We should not define new opcodes with names begining with a (or i, k, or
>>> f)
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> service
>>> that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your
>>> browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic
>>> and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt!
>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>> Senior Lecturer
>> Dept. of Music
>> NUI Maynooth Ireland
>> tel.: +353 1 708 3545
>> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt
>> New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring
>> service
>> that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your
>> browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic
>> and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr
>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt
> New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service
> that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your
> browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic
> and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr
> _______________________________________________
> Csound-devel mailing list
> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>

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