Yes, that's the "catch": the system variables. I know of no good solution 
here.

Frankly, at one point, I got so fed up with environment variables and paths 
that I got rid of them all, and went to this single directory system.

Of course, I've multiple complete versions of Csound on my computers, 
largely for testing purposes. I just put OPCODEDIR back in whenever I need 
it, or - better yet - just run from within that version's /bin directory. 
That works too. Still, however, you're stuck with getting rid of OPCODEDIR. 
I wonder whether that's even possible for students who don't have 
administrative privileges on school machines, for example?

Any chance at all that this could be addressed via another commandline 
(CsOptions) flag? (I'd guess not.)

Art Hunkins

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Oeyvind Brandtsegg" 
To: "Art Hunkins" ; "Developer discussions" 

Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] Csound plugins was Re: UB binary of csound framework


Thanks a lot Art, this is very useful.
One question though, if you have several Csound versions installed and
want to make sure you use a particular version for a given piece, how
do you deal with system variables like OPCODEDIR? When I've tried
(e.g. running csound from the source dir after compiling), it seems
the system OPCODEDIR overrides the opcodes found in the current
working dir.
I guess I could delete the system variable and get it working on my
own computer. But it would be nice to be able to distribute a
particular csound version with a piece, and being sure this was the
one being used, regardless if any csound version is installed or not
on the user's computer.

best
Oeyvind

2009/11/21 Art Hunkins :
> No, I've no documentation, but the subject was discussed years ago on one 
> of
> these lists. Particular in the "Istvan days", when he was particularly
> partial to a zip distro of Csound (and so was I, and still am, as are
> others).
>
> I was also interested (as Matt was, and perhaps still is - welcome back,
> Matt) in a *minimal* distro, particularly one I could distribute with my
> realtime Csound comps to potential performers of my works - performers
> without Csound installations and otherwise (perhaps) little interest in
> Csound and its learning curve either. I wanted a minimal zip download to a
> single directory, with performance in this directory - as, for example, in
> the root directory of a USB drive. No .csoundrc, no environment variables,
> no installation - and as little tech stuff as possible.
>
> I found that on Windows, the total Csound files needed to perform my
> compositions were 8, plus my .csd and perhaps a .txt file of performer
> directions. The 8 files (from Windows floats 5.06) are:
> csound.exe
> csound32.dll.5.1
> libsndfile-1.dll
> pmidi.dll
> portaudio.dll
> rtpa.dll
> rtwinmm.dll
> stopcod.dll
>
> I chose 5.06 because it was the most recent version that:
> 1) fully worked for my purposes (I needed MIDI);
> 2) it required the smallest number of files;
> 3) it posted the fewest WARNING messages (need we discuss this further?!)
>
> These files zip to < 1.2MB, and expand to 3MB. Put them on a small USB 
> thumb
> drive together with your .csd, all in the root directory, and you're ready
> to go from the commandline.
>
> Note that these 8 files include all that's needed for MIDI input and any
> Windows audio devices. (Of course, additional opcode .dll's can be added 
> as
> useful. I sometimes need pitch.dll, but my needs are pretty basic.)
>
> The keys are: 1) no .csoundrc file or Csound environment variables in your
> system; 2) include any needed flags in the CsOptions of your .csd. In my
> experience, all flags can be preset except for -M and perhaps -odac 
> (device
> numbers may need changing per system). For such basic editing I use the
> Notepad available on any Windows system.
>
> This should point the way to simple Csound systems that could be used by
> students, for example, on any available Windows computer.
>
> I go a step further, offering downloads of my performance pieces in
> standalone Lettuce executable format. (This means a file combining
> csound.exe, my .csd and a performance GUI in a single larger file.) As a
> result performers need lot deal with the commandline, text editor, nor
> changing orchestra macros by hand; just remain in Windows and click 
> buttons.
> (CsOptions can be modified within the GUI.)
>
> An example of such a self-contained download is
> http://www.arthunkins.com/AdventSA.zip. It's a performer's download of
> ADVENIAT REGNUM TUUM in a 2.5MB .zip archive, with the 7 files above, an
> explanatory text file, and three Lettuce executable versions of my piece.
>
> Csound(Windows)-on-a-Stick? It works.
>
> Art Hunkins
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Oeyvind Brandtsegg" 
> To: "Developer discussions" 
> Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 5:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] Csound plugins was Re: UB binary of csound framework
>
>
> I need to do something similar too, and I can probably find what I
> need by searching the mail archives, but it would be nice if this
> could be documented somewhere. Preferably in the manual too.
> Art, do you have some documentation on this?
>
> all best
> Oeyvind
>
> 2009/11/20 Rory Walsh :
>> As far as I'm aware it looks in the bin directory. Art made a set of
>> self contained zip distributions of some of his real time pieces and
>> as far as I know users could just download and run them from the
>> folder they extracted all the file into.
>>
>> Rory.
>>
>>
>>
>> 2009/11/20 Andres Cabrera :
>>> I'm wondering.... Since Csound looks for OPCODEDIR before parsing the
>>> command line (using -+env:OPCODEDIR to set it won't work), where would
>>> the opcodes be looked for by default on the different platforms? In
>>> the same path as the Csound executable?
>>>
>>> I'm asking this because it would be great to have a self contained
>>> Csound that can be run without installing (without the need for
>>> administrative access).
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Andrés
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Victor Lazzarini
>>>  wrote:
>>>> Not sure of anything simple right now. You can try setting different
>>>> OPCODEDIRs. But still there will be a need to supply UB dependencies.
>>>>
>>>> Victor
>>>> On 19 Nov 2009, at 21:17, matt ingalls wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> yuck. there's not a way this can be handled in the framework
>>>>> structure, with separate folders for each architecture or something?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 19, 2009, at 12:09 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> You'll probably need to solve the problem of plugins, they will all
>>>>>> have to be UB and
>>>>>> their dependencies too. For instance, liblo will need to be made UB
>>>>>> for libosc to be made
>>>>>> UB so that Csound can have OSC opcodes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Victor
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 18 Nov 2009, at 20:40, matt ingalls wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> thanks Victor.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> i agree that it maybe not worth it :)
>>>>>>> ( i was actually about ready to retire MacCsound entirely- except
>>>>>>> QuteSound still does not seem as good in real-time and GUI
>>>>>>> response --
>>>>>>> even compared to MacCsound running in Rosetta)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> i am willing to look into UB compile.
>>>>>>> my apologies for being out of touch, but is there some kind of
>>>>>>> document listing what 3rd-party libraries are being used, what
>>>>>>> libraries are absolutely required, etc?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> i also ask about this because i would be interested in getting
>>>>>>> csound
>>>>>>> running on an iPhone -- has anyone tried this yet? as far as i
>>>>>>> understand iPhone apps can't use dynamic frameworks/libraries and i
>>>>>>> was wondering if it would be possible to get all the 3rd party
>>>>>>> libraries statically linked. (i assume this will violate some of the
>>>>>>> GPL licenses?)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -m
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Nov 18, 2009, at 12:25 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> While it might be possible to build a UB framework, there will be a
>>>>>>>> lot of complication because of the dependencies that would have to
>>>>>>>> themselves be UB. I thought about it, but I thought it was always
>>>>>>>> simpler to build separate binaries. The main thing about the
>>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>> state of things is that I spent a good time testing, fixing and
>>>>>>>> perfecting things, with the help of the community. My fear is
>>>>>>>> that an
>>>>>>>> attempt at a UB would break things and take too long to get right.
>>>>>>>> But
>>>>>>>> if anyone fancy a challenge, please be my guest.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think at this point, it might not be worth our while for too
>>>>>>>> long.
>>>>>>>> Apple is phasing out support for PPC, so I guess it would not be an
>>>>>>>> issue in the future.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Victor
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 18 Nov 2009, at 20:08, matt ingalls wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> is there *any* possibility of compiling csound framework as a
>>>>>>>>> Universal Binary?
>>>>>>>>> so that say, for instance, one could have QuteSound and MacCsound
>>>>>>>>> running on the same intel mac :)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (btw, on 2 separate occassions i tried unsuccessfully to get a
>>>>>>>>> localized version of csound framework that would be inside the
>>>>>>>>> MacCsound bundle, using the install_name_tool and o_name tools --
>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>> the nest of connections among the libraries were too complicated
>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> something - i never got it to work)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> matt ingalls
>>>>>>>>> matt@sonomatics.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports
>>>>>>>>> 2008
>>>>>>>>> 30-Day
>>>>>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment -
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> focus on
>>>>>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports
>>>>>>>> 2008
>>>>>>>> 30-Day
>>>>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment -
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> focus on
>>>>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>>>>>> Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> matt ingalls
>>>>>>> development@gvox.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
>>>>>>> 30-Day
>>>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>>>>>>> focus on
>>>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>>>>> Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports
>>>>>> 2008 30-Day
>>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment -
>>>>>> and focus on
>>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>>>> Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> matt ingalls
>>>>> matt@sonomatics.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
>>>>> 30-Day
>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>>>>> focus on
>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>>> Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
>>>> 30-Day
>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>>>> focus on
>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>> Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> Andrés
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
>>> 30-Day
>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>>> focus on
>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>> Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
>> 30-Day
>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and 
>> focus
>> on
>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>> Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 
> 30-Day
> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus
> on
> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
> Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
> _______________________________________________
> Csound-devel mailing list
> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 
> 30-Day
> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus 
> on
> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
> Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
> _______________________________________________
> Csound-devel mailing list
> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus 
on
what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
_______________________________________________
Csound-devel mailing list
Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day 
trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on 
what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
_______________________________________________
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Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net

Maybe it's possible to temporarily change the system variables, valid
only for so long as the aplication runs ? As if editing e.g. $PATH in
a terminal and the changes apply only to "this session". I bet someone
here knows these tricks.
Oeyvind

2009/11/21 Art Hunkins :
> Yes, that's the "catch": the system variables. I know of no good solution
> here.
>
> Frankly, at one point, I got so fed up with environment variables and paths
> that I got rid of them all, and went to this single directory system.
>
> Of course, I've multiple complete versions of Csound on my computers,
> largely for testing purposes. I just put OPCODEDIR back in whenever I need
> it, or - better yet - just run from within that version's /bin directory.
> That works too. Still, however, you're stuck with getting rid of OPCODEDIR.
> I wonder whether that's even possible for students who don't have
> administrative privileges on school machines, for example?
>
> Any chance at all that this could be addressed via another commandline
> (CsOptions) flag? (I'd guess not.)
>
> Art Hunkins
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Oeyvind Brandtsegg" 
> To: "Art Hunkins" ; "Developer discussions"
> 
> Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 6:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] Csound plugins was Re: UB binary of csound framework
>
>
> Thanks a lot Art, this is very useful.
> One question though, if you have several Csound versions installed and
> want to make sure you use a particular version for a given piece, how
> do you deal with system variables like OPCODEDIR? When I've tried
> (e.g. running csound from the source dir after compiling), it seems
> the system OPCODEDIR overrides the opcodes found in the current
> working dir.
> I guess I could delete the system variable and get it working on my
> own computer. But it would be nice to be able to distribute a
> particular csound version with a piece, and being sure this was the
> one being used, regardless if any csound version is installed or not
> on the user's computer.
>
> best
> Oeyvind
>
> 2009/11/21 Art Hunkins :
>> No, I've no documentation, but the subject was discussed years ago on one
>> of
>> these lists. Particular in the "Istvan days", when he was particularly
>> partial to a zip distro of Csound (and so was I, and still am, as are
>> others).
>>
>> I was also interested (as Matt was, and perhaps still is - welcome back,
>> Matt) in a *minimal* distro, particularly one I could distribute with my
>> realtime Csound comps to potential performers of my works - performers
>> without Csound installations and otherwise (perhaps) little interest in
>> Csound and its learning curve either. I wanted a minimal zip download to a
>> single directory, with performance in this directory - as, for example, in
>> the root directory of a USB drive. No .csoundrc, no environment variables,
>> no installation - and as little tech stuff as possible.
>>
>> I found that on Windows, the total Csound files needed to perform my
>> compositions were 8, plus my .csd and perhaps a .txt file of performer
>> directions. The 8 files (from Windows floats 5.06) are:
>> csound.exe
>> csound32.dll.5.1
>> libsndfile-1.dll
>> pmidi.dll
>> portaudio.dll
>> rtpa.dll
>> rtwinmm.dll
>> stopcod.dll
>>
>> I chose 5.06 because it was the most recent version that:
>> 1) fully worked for my purposes (I needed MIDI);
>> 2) it required the smallest number of files;
>> 3) it posted the fewest WARNING messages (need we discuss this further?!)
>>
>> These files zip to < 1.2MB, and expand to 3MB. Put them on a small USB
>> thumb
>> drive together with your .csd, all in the root directory, and you're ready
>> to go from the commandline.
>>
>> Note that these 8 files include all that's needed for MIDI input and any
>> Windows audio devices. (Of course, additional opcode .dll's can be added
>> as
>> useful. I sometimes need pitch.dll, but my needs are pretty basic.)
>>
>> The keys are: 1) no .csoundrc file or Csound environment variables in your
>> system; 2) include any needed flags in the CsOptions of your .csd. In my
>> experience, all flags can be preset except for -M and perhaps -odac
>> (device
>> numbers may need changing per system). For such basic editing I use the
>> Notepad available on any Windows system.
>>
>> This should point the way to simple Csound systems that could be used by
>> students, for example, on any available Windows computer.
>>
>> I go a step further, offering downloads of my performance pieces in
>> standalone Lettuce executable format. (This means a file combining
>> csound.exe, my .csd and a performance GUI in a single larger file.) As a
>> result performers need lot deal with the commandline, text editor, nor
>> changing orchestra macros by hand; just remain in Windows and click
>> buttons.
>> (CsOptions can be modified within the GUI.)
>>
>> An example of such a self-contained download is
>> http://www.arthunkins.com/AdventSA.zip. It's a performer's download of
>> ADVENIAT REGNUM TUUM in a 2.5MB .zip archive, with the 7 files above, an
>> explanatory text file, and three Lettuce executable versions of my piece.
>>
>> Csound(Windows)-on-a-Stick? It works.
>>
>> Art Hunkins
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Oeyvind Brandtsegg" 
>> To: "Developer discussions" 
>> Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 5:47 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] Csound plugins was Re: UB binary of csound framework
>>
>>
>> I need to do something similar too, and I can probably find what I
>> need by searching the mail archives, but it would be nice if this
>> could be documented somewhere. Preferably in the manual too.
>> Art, do you have some documentation on this?
>>
>> all best
>> Oeyvind
>>
>> 2009/11/20 Rory Walsh :
>>> As far as I'm aware it looks in the bin directory. Art made a set of
>>> self contained zip distributions of some of his real time pieces and
>>> as far as I know users could just download and run them from the
>>> folder they extracted all the file into.
>>>
>>> Rory.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2009/11/20 Andres Cabrera :
>>>> I'm wondering.... Since Csound looks for OPCODEDIR before parsing the
>>>> command line (using -+env:OPCODEDIR to set it won't work), where would
>>>> the opcodes be looked for by default on the different platforms? In
>>>> the same path as the Csound executable?
>>>>
>>>> I'm asking this because it would be great to have a self contained
>>>> Csound that can be run without installing (without the need for
>>>> administrative access).
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Andrés
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Victor Lazzarini
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> Not sure of anything simple right now. You can try setting different
>>>>> OPCODEDIRs. But still there will be a need to supply UB dependencies.
>>>>>
>>>>> Victor
>>>>> On 19 Nov 2009, at 21:17, matt ingalls wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> yuck. there's not a way this can be handled in the framework
>>>>>> structure, with separate folders for each architecture or something?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Nov 19, 2009, at 12:09 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You'll probably need to solve the problem of plugins, they will all
>>>>>>> have to be UB and
>>>>>>> their dependencies too. For instance, liblo will need to be made UB
>>>>>>> for libosc to be made
>>>>>>> UB so that Csound can have OSC opcodes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Victor
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 18 Nov 2009, at 20:40, matt ingalls wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> thanks Victor.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> i agree that it maybe not worth it :)
>>>>>>>> ( i was actually about ready to retire MacCsound entirely- except
>>>>>>>> QuteSound still does not seem as good in real-time and GUI
>>>>>>>> response --
>>>>>>>> even compared to MacCsound running in Rosetta)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> i am willing to look into UB compile.
>>>>>>>> my apologies for being out of touch, but is there some kind of
>>>>>>>> document listing what 3rd-party libraries are being used, what
>>>>>>>> libraries are absolutely required, etc?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> i also ask about this because i would be interested in getting
>>>>>>>> csound
>>>>>>>> running on an iPhone -- has anyone tried this yet? as far as i
>>>>>>>> understand iPhone apps can't use dynamic frameworks/libraries and i
>>>>>>>> was wondering if it would be possible to get all the 3rd party
>>>>>>>> libraries statically linked. (i assume this will violate some of the
>>>>>>>> GPL licenses?)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -m
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Nov 18, 2009, at 12:25 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> While it might be possible to build a UB framework, there will be a
>>>>>>>>> lot of complication because of the dependencies that would have to
>>>>>>>>> themselves be UB. I thought about it, but I thought it was always
>>>>>>>>> simpler to build separate binaries. The main thing about the
>>>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>> state of things is that I spent a good time testing, fixing and
>>>>>>>>> perfecting things, with the help of the community. My fear is
>>>>>>>>> that an
>>>>>>>>> attempt at a UB would break things and take too long to get right.
>>>>>>>>> But
>>>>>>>>> if anyone fancy a challenge, please be my guest.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think at this point, it might not be worth our while for too
>>>>>>>>> long.
>>>>>>>>> Apple is phasing out support for PPC, so I guess it would not be an
>>>>>>>>> issue in the future.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Victor
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 18 Nov 2009, at 20:08, matt ingalls wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> is there *any* possibility of compiling csound framework as a
>>>>>>>>>> Universal Binary?
>>>>>>>>>> so that say, for instance, one could have QuteSound and MacCsound
>>>>>>>>>> running on the same intel mac :)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> (btw, on 2 separate occassions i tried unsuccessfully to get a
>>>>>>>>>> localized version of csound framework that would be inside the
>>>>>>>>>> MacCsound bundle, using the install_name_tool and o_name tools --
>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>> the nest of connections among the libraries were too complicated
>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> something - i never got it to work)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> matt ingalls
>>>>>>>>>> matt@sonomatics.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports
>>>>>>>>>> 2008
>>>>>>>>>> 30-Day
>>>>>>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment -
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> focus on
>>>>>>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new
>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>> Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports
>>>>>>>>> 2008
>>>>>>>>> 30-Day
>>>>>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment -
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> focus on
>>>>>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>>>>>>> Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> matt ingalls
>>>>>>>> development@gvox.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
>>>>>>>> 30-Day
>>>>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>>>>>>>> focus on
>>>>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>>>>>> Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports
>>>>>>> 2008 30-Day
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>>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> matt ingalls
>>>>>> matt@sonomatics.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
>>>>>> 30-Day
>>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>>>>>> focus on
>>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
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>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>>> 30-Day
>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>>>>> focus on
>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
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>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Andrés
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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you mean writing  script that sets the path and runs csound? That's  
trivial enough,
just

export OPCODEDIR=/blah; csound ...

Victor


On 21 Nov 2009, at 00:18, Oeyvind Brandtsegg wrote:

> Maybe it's possible to temporarily change the system variables, valid
> only for so long as the aplication runs ? As if editing e.g. $PATH in
> a terminal and the changes apply only to "this session". I bet someone
> here knows these tricks.
> Oeyvind
>
> 2009/11/21 Art Hunkins :
>> Yes, that's the "catch": the system variables. I know of no good  
>> solution
>> here.
>>
>> Frankly, at one point, I got so fed up with environment variables  
>> and paths
>> that I got rid of them all, and went to this single directory system.
>>
>> Of course, I've multiple complete versions of Csound on my computers,
>> largely for testing purposes. I just put OPCODEDIR back in whenever  
>> I need
>> it, or - better yet - just run from within that version's /bin  
>> directory.
>> That works too. Still, however, you're stuck with getting rid of  
>> OPCODEDIR.
>> I wonder whether that's even possible for students who don't have
>> administrative privileges on school machines, for example?
>>
>> Any chance at all that this could be addressed via another  
>> commandline
>> (CsOptions) flag? (I'd guess not.)
>>
>> Art Hunkins
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Oeyvind Brandtsegg" 
>> To: "Art Hunkins" ; "Developer discussions"
>> 
>> Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 6:27 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] Csound plugins was Re: UB binary of csound  
>> framework
>>
>>
>> Thanks a lot Art, this is very useful.
>> One question though, if you have several Csound versions installed  
>> and
>> want to make sure you use a particular version for a given piece, how
>> do you deal with system variables like OPCODEDIR? When I've tried
>> (e.g. running csound from the source dir after compiling), it seems
>> the system OPCODEDIR overrides the opcodes found in the current
>> working dir.
>> I guess I could delete the system variable and get it working on my
>> own computer. But it would be nice to be able to distribute a
>> particular csound version with a piece, and being sure this was the
>> one being used, regardless if any csound version is installed or not
>> on the user's computer.
>>
>> best
>> Oeyvind
>>
>> 2009/11/21 Art Hunkins :
>>> No, I've no documentation, but the subject was discussed years ago  
>>> on one
>>> of
>>> these lists. Particular in the "Istvan days", when he was  
>>> particularly
>>> partial to a zip distro of Csound (and so was I, and still am, as  
>>> are
>>> others).
>>>
>>> I was also interested (as Matt was, and perhaps still is - welcome  
>>> back,
>>> Matt) in a *minimal* distro, particularly one I could distribute  
>>> with my
>>> realtime Csound comps to potential performers of my works -  
>>> performers
>>> without Csound installations and otherwise (perhaps) little  
>>> interest in
>>> Csound and its learning curve either. I wanted a minimal zip  
>>> download to a
>>> single directory, with performance in this directory - as, for  
>>> example, in
>>> the root directory of a USB drive. No .csoundrc, no environment  
>>> variables,
>>> no installation - and as little tech stuff as possible.
>>>
>>> I found that on Windows, the total Csound files needed to perform my
>>> compositions were 8, plus my .csd and perhaps a .txt file of  
>>> performer
>>> directions. The 8 files (from Windows floats 5.06) are:
>>> csound.exe
>>> csound32.dll.5.1
>>> libsndfile-1.dll
>>> pmidi.dll
>>> portaudio.dll
>>> rtpa.dll
>>> rtwinmm.dll
>>> stopcod.dll
>>>
>>> I chose 5.06 because it was the most recent version that:
>>> 1) fully worked for my purposes (I needed MIDI);
>>> 2) it required the smallest number of files;
>>> 3) it posted the fewest WARNING messages (need we discuss this  
>>> further?!)
>>>
>>> These files zip to < 1.2MB, and expand to 3MB. Put them on a small  
>>> USB
>>> thumb
>>> drive together with your .csd, all in the root directory, and  
>>> you're ready
>>> to go from the commandline.
>>>
>>> Note that these 8 files include all that's needed for MIDI input  
>>> and any
>>> Windows audio devices. (Of course, additional opcode .dll's can be  
>>> added
>>> as
>>> useful. I sometimes need pitch.dll, but my needs are pretty basic.)
>>>
>>> The keys are: 1) no .csoundrc file or Csound environment variables  
>>> in your
>>> system; 2) include any needed flags in the CsOptions of your .csd.  
>>> In my
>>> experience, all flags can be preset except for -M and perhaps -odac
>>> (device
>>> numbers may need changing per system). For such basic editing I  
>>> use the
>>> Notepad available on any Windows system.
>>>
>>> This should point the way to simple Csound systems that could be  
>>> used by
>>> students, for example, on any available Windows computer.
>>>
>>> I go a step further, offering downloads of my performance pieces in
>>> standalone Lettuce executable format. (This means a file combining
>>> csound.exe, my .csd and a performance GUI in a single larger  
>>> file.) As a
>>> result performers need lot deal with the commandline, text editor,  
>>> nor
>>> changing orchestra macros by hand; just remain in Windows and click
>>> buttons.
>>> (CsOptions can be modified within the GUI.)
>>>
>>> An example of such a self-contained download is
>>> http://www.arthunkins.com/AdventSA.zip. It's a performer's  
>>> download of
>>> ADVENIAT REGNUM TUUM in a 2.5MB .zip archive, with the 7 files  
>>> above, an
>>> explanatory text file, and three Lettuce executable versions of my  
>>> piece.
>>>
>>> Csound(Windows)-on-a-Stick? It works.
>>>
>>> Art Hunkins
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Oeyvind Brandtsegg" 
>>> To: "Developer discussions" 
>>> Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 5:47 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] Csound plugins was Re: UB binary of csound  
>>> framework
>>>
>>>
>>> I need to do something similar too, and I can probably find what I
>>> need by searching the mail archives, but it would be nice if this
>>> could be documented somewhere. Preferably in the manual too.
>>> Art, do you have some documentation on this?
>>>
>>> all best
>>> Oeyvind
>>>
>>> 2009/11/20 Rory Walsh :
>>>> As far as I'm aware it looks in the bin directory. Art made a set  
>>>> of
>>>> self contained zip distributions of some of his real time pieces  
>>>> and
>>>> as far as I know users could just download and run them from the
>>>> folder they extracted all the file into.
>>>>
>>>> Rory.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2009/11/20 Andres Cabrera :
>>>>> I'm wondering.... Since Csound looks for OPCODEDIR before  
>>>>> parsing the
>>>>> command line (using -+env:OPCODEDIR to set it won't work), where  
>>>>> would
>>>>> the opcodes be looked for by default on the different platforms?  
>>>>> In
>>>>> the same path as the Csound executable?
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm asking this because it would be great to have a self contained
>>>>> Csound that can be run without installing (without the need for
>>>>> administrative access).
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Andrés
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Victor Lazzarini
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>> Not sure of anything simple right now. You can try setting  
>>>>>> different
>>>>>> OPCODEDIRs. But still there will be a need to supply UB  
>>>>>> dependencies.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Victor
>>>>>> On 19 Nov 2009, at 21:17, matt ingalls wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> yuck. there's not a way this can be handled in the framework
>>>>>>> structure, with separate folders for each architecture or  
>>>>>>> something?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Nov 19, 2009, at 12:09 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You'll probably need to solve the problem of plugins, they  
>>>>>>>> will all
>>>>>>>> have to be UB and
>>>>>>>> their dependencies too. For instance, liblo will need to be  
>>>>>>>> made UB
>>>>>>>> for libosc to be made
>>>>>>>> UB so that Csound can have OSC opcodes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Victor
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 18 Nov 2009, at 20:40, matt ingalls wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> thanks Victor.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> i agree that it maybe not worth it :)
>>>>>>>>> ( i was actually about ready to retire MacCsound entirely-  
>>>>>>>>> except
>>>>>>>>> QuteSound still does not seem as good in real-time and GUI
>>>>>>>>> response --
>>>>>>>>> even compared to MacCsound running in Rosetta)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> i am willing to look into UB compile.
>>>>>>>>> my apologies for being out of touch, but is there some kind of
>>>>>>>>> document listing what 3rd-party libraries are being used, what
>>>>>>>>> libraries are absolutely required, etc?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> i also ask about this because i would be interested in getting
>>>>>>>>> csound
>>>>>>>>> running on an iPhone -- has anyone tried this yet? as far as i
>>>>>>>>> understand iPhone apps can't use dynamic frameworks/ 
>>>>>>>>> libraries and i
>>>>>>>>> was wondering if it would be possible to get all the 3rd party
>>>>>>>>> libraries statically linked. (i assume this will violate  
>>>>>>>>> some of the
>>>>>>>>> GPL licenses?)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -m
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Nov 18, 2009, at 12:25 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> While it might be possible to build a UB framework, there  
>>>>>>>>>> will be a
>>>>>>>>>> lot of complication because of the dependencies that would  
>>>>>>>>>> have to
>>>>>>>>>> themselves be UB. I thought about it, but I thought it was  
>>>>>>>>>> always
>>>>>>>>>> simpler to build separate binaries. The main thing about the
>>>>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>>> state of things is that I spent a good time testing, fixing  
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> perfecting things, with the help of the community. My fear is
>>>>>>>>>> that an
>>>>>>>>>> attempt at a UB would break things and take too long to get  
>>>>>>>>>> right.
>>>>>>>>>> But
>>>>>>>>>> if anyone fancy a challenge, please be my guest.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think at this point, it might not be worth our while for  
>>>>>>>>>> too
>>>>>>>>>> long.
>>>>>>>>>> Apple is phasing out support for PPC, so I guess it would  
>>>>>>>>>> not be an
>>>>>>>>>> issue in the future.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Victor
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 18 Nov 2009, at 20:08, matt ingalls wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> is there *any* possibility of compiling csound framework  
>>>>>>>>>>> as a
>>>>>>>>>>> Universal Binary?
>>>>>>>>>>> so that say, for instance, one could have QuteSound and  
>>>>>>>>>>> MacCsound
>>>>>>>>>>> running on the same intel mac :)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> (btw, on 2 separate occassions i tried unsuccessfully to  
>>>>>>>>>>> get a
>>>>>>>>>>> localized version of csound framework that would be inside  
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> MacCsound bundle, using the install_name_tool and o_name  
>>>>>>>>>>> tools --
>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>> the nest of connections among the libraries were too  
>>>>>>>>>>> complicated
>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>> something - i never got it to work)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> matt ingalls
>>>>>>>>>>> matt@sonomatics.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal  
>>>>>>>>>>> Reports
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>>>>>>>>>>> new
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>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> matt ingalls
>>>>>>>>> development@gvox.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal  
>>>>>>>>> Reports 2008
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>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> matt ingalls
>>>>>>> matt@sonomatics.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal  
>>>>>>> Reports 2008
>>>>>>> 30-Day
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>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>>>> 2008
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Andrés
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports  
>>>>> 2008
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>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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For what it is worth I have never liked the OPCODEDIR environment
variable, and never was very happy with all the other environment
variables.  I wanted a combination of command-line options and
automated selection for plugins but the design was never discussed.

==John ffitch

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Well, I have previously suggested a pattern of default directories
several times on this list. I repeat the suggestion now.

There are several ways of implementing this, but I just thought of a
new one. There are two parts to the idea. First, if there is a local
installation (e.g. in the user's home directory, a concept that exists
on all platforms if I am not mistaken), then the directory structure
would be something like

bin
lib // shared libraries except for plugins
plugins32
plugins64
doc
examples
etc

Alternatively, the 64 and 32 bit builds can be distinguished
completely by filename and co-exist in the same bin, lib, and plugins
directories; this requires changes to the module loading code but I
think many would prefer that. We recently discussed this for Python
modules.

Obviously, plugins are loaded by default from the local plugins directory.

Second, if the installation is not local, symbolic links would be made
in the user's home directory with the same structure. I believe this
also would work on all platforms. The default loading code would then
still work.

The only drawback is that this would require some additional setup
work for computers used by more than one Csound user, but it would be
easy to do.

I'd be interested to hear any other ideas on how to handle this.

Regards,
Mike

On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 2:58 AM, john ffitch  wrote:
> For what it is worth I have never likeed the OPCODEDIR environment
> variable, and never was very happy with all the other environment
> variables.  I wanted a combination of command-line options and
> automated selection for plugins but the design was never discussed.
>
> ==John ffitch
>
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-- 
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com

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I'm totally behind this Michael. I think we should have a CSOUND_HOME variable.

On 11/22/09, Michael Gogins  wrote:
> Well, I have previously suggested a pattern of default directories
> several times on this list. I repeat the suggestion now.
>
> There are several ways of implementing this, but I just thought of a
> new one. There are two parts to the idea. First, if there is a local
> installation (e.g. in the user's home directory, a concept that exists
> on all platforms if I am not mistaken), then the directory structure
> would be something like
>
> bin
> lib // shared libraries except for plugins
> plugins32
> plugins64
> doc
> examples
> etc
>
> Alternatively, the 64 and 32 bit builds can be distinguished
> completely by filename and co-exist in the same bin, lib, and plugins
> directories; this requires changes to the module loading code but I
> think many would prefer that. We recently discussed this for Python
> modules.
>
> Obviously, plugins are loaded by default from the local plugins directory.
>
> Second, if the installation is not local, symbolic links would be made
> in the user's home directory with the same structure. I believe this
> also would work on all platforms. The default loading code would then
> still work.
>
> The only drawback is that this would require some additional setup
> work for computers used by more than one Csound user, but it would be
> easy to do.
>
> I'd be interested to hear any other ideas on how to handle this.
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
> On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 2:58 AM, john ffitch  wrote:
>> For what it is worth I have never likeed the OPCODEDIR environment
>> variable, and never was very happy with all the other environment
>> variables.  I wanted a combination of command-line options and
>> automated selection for plugins but the design was never discussed.
>>
>> ==John ffitch
>>
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>
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> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
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Yes, like that, thank you ;-)

2009/11/21 Victor Lazzarini :
> you mean writing  script that sets the path and runs csound? That's
> trivial enough,
> just
>
> export OPCODEDIR=/blah; csound ...
>
> Victor
>
>
> On 21 Nov 2009, at 00:18, Oeyvind Brandtsegg wrote:
>
>> Maybe it's possible to temporarily change the system variables, valid
>> only for so long as the aplication runs ? As if editing e.g. $PATH in
>> a terminal and the changes apply only to "this session". I bet someone
>> here knows these tricks.
>> Oeyvind
>>
>> 2009/11/21 Art Hunkins :
>>> Yes, that's the "catch": the system variables. I know of no good
>>> solution
>>> here.
>>>
>>> Frankly, at one point, I got so fed up with environment variables
>>> and paths
>>> that I got rid of them all, and went to this single directory system.
>>>
>>> Of course, I've multiple complete versions of Csound on my computers,
>>> largely for testing purposes. I just put OPCODEDIR back in whenever
>>> I need
>>> it, or - better yet - just run from within that version's /bin
>>> directory.
>>> That works too. Still, however, you're stuck with getting rid of
>>> OPCODEDIR.
>>> I wonder whether that's even possible for students who don't have
>>> administrative privileges on school machines, for example?
>>>
>>> Any chance at all that this could be addressed via another
>>> commandline
>>> (CsOptions) flag? (I'd guess not.)
>>>
>>> Art Hunkins
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Oeyvind Brandtsegg" 
>>> To: "Art Hunkins" ; "Developer discussions"
>>> 
>>> Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 6:27 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] Csound plugins was Re: UB binary of csound
>>> framework
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks a lot Art, this is very useful.
>>> One question though, if you have several Csound versions installed
>>> and
>>> want to make sure you use a particular version for a given piece, how
>>> do you deal with system variables like OPCODEDIR? When I've tried
>>> (e.g. running csound from the source dir after compiling), it seems
>>> the system OPCODEDIR overrides the opcodes found in the current
>>> working dir.
>>> I guess I could delete the system variable and get it working on my
>>> own computer. But it would be nice to be able to distribute a
>>> particular csound version with a piece, and being sure this was the
>>> one being used, regardless if any csound version is installed or not
>>> on the user's computer.
>>>
>>> best
>>> Oeyvind
>>>
>>> 2009/11/21 Art Hunkins :
>>>> No, I've no documentation, but the subject was discussed years ago
>>>> on one
>>>> of
>>>> these lists. Particular in the "Istvan days", when he was
>>>> particularly
>>>> partial to a zip distro of Csound (and so was I, and still am, as
>>>> are
>>>> others).
>>>>
>>>> I was also interested (as Matt was, and perhaps still is - welcome
>>>> back,
>>>> Matt) in a *minimal* distro, particularly one I could distribute
>>>> with my
>>>> realtime Csound comps to potential performers of my works -
>>>> performers
>>>> without Csound installations and otherwise (perhaps) little
>>>> interest in
>>>> Csound and its learning curve either. I wanted a minimal zip
>>>> download to a
>>>> single directory, with performance in this directory - as, for
>>>> example, in
>>>> the root directory of a USB drive. No .csoundrc, no environment
>>>> variables,
>>>> no installation - and as little tech stuff as possible.
>>>>
>>>> I found that on Windows, the total Csound files needed to perform my
>>>> compositions were 8, plus my .csd and perhaps a .txt file of
>>>> performer
>>>> directions. The 8 files (from Windows floats 5.06) are:
>>>> csound.exe
>>>> csound32.dll.5.1
>>>> libsndfile-1.dll
>>>> pmidi.dll
>>>> portaudio.dll
>>>> rtpa.dll
>>>> rtwinmm.dll
>>>> stopcod.dll
>>>>
>>>> I chose 5.06 because it was the most recent version that:
>>>> 1) fully worked for my purposes (I needed MIDI);
>>>> 2) it required the smallest number of files;
>>>> 3) it posted the fewest WARNING messages (need we discuss this
>>>> further?!)
>>>>
>>>> These files zip to < 1.2MB, and expand to 3MB. Put them on a small
>>>> USB
>>>> thumb
>>>> drive together with your .csd, all in the root directory, and
>>>> you're ready
>>>> to go from the commandline.
>>>>
>>>> Note that these 8 files include all that's needed for MIDI input
>>>> and any
>>>> Windows audio devices. (Of course, additional opcode .dll's can be
>>>> added
>>>> as
>>>> useful. I sometimes need pitch.dll, but my needs are pretty basic.)
>>>>
>>>> The keys are: 1) no .csoundrc file or Csound environment variables
>>>> in your
>>>> system; 2) include any needed flags in the CsOptions of your .csd.
>>>> In my
>>>> experience, all flags can be preset except for -M and perhaps -odac
>>>> (device
>>>> numbers may need changing per system). For such basic editing I
>>>> use the
>>>> Notepad available on any Windows system.
>>>>
>>>> This should point the way to simple Csound systems that could be
>>>> used by
>>>> students, for example, on any available Windows computer.
>>>>
>>>> I go a step further, offering downloads of my performance pieces in
>>>> standalone Lettuce executable format. (This means a file combining
>>>> csound.exe, my .csd and a performance GUI in a single larger
>>>> file.) As a
>>>> result performers need lot deal with the commandline, text editor,
>>>> nor
>>>> changing orchestra macros by hand; just remain in Windows and click
>>>> buttons.
>>>> (CsOptions can be modified within the GUI.)
>>>>
>>>> An example of such a self-contained download is
>>>> http://www.arthunkins.com/AdventSA.zip. It's a performer's
>>>> download of
>>>> ADVENIAT REGNUM TUUM in a 2.5MB .zip archive, with the 7 files
>>>> above, an
>>>> explanatory text file, and three Lettuce executable versions of my
>>>> piece.
>>>>
>>>> Csound(Windows)-on-a-Stick? It works.
>>>>
>>>> Art Hunkins
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Oeyvind Brandtsegg" 
>>>> To: "Developer discussions" 
>>>> Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 5:47 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] Csound plugins was Re: UB binary of csound
>>>> framework
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I need to do something similar too, and I can probably find what I
>>>> need by searching the mail archives, but it would be nice if this
>>>> could be documented somewhere. Preferably in the manual too.
>>>> Art, do you have some documentation on this?
>>>>
>>>> all best
>>>> Oeyvind
>>>>
>>>> 2009/11/20 Rory Walsh :
>>>>> As far as I'm aware it looks in the bin directory. Art made a set
>>>>> of
>>>>> self contained zip distributions of some of his real time pieces
>>>>> and
>>>>> as far as I know users could just download and run them from the
>>>>> folder they extracted all the file into.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rory.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2009/11/20 Andres Cabrera :
>>>>>> I'm wondering.... Since Csound looks for OPCODEDIR before
>>>>>> parsing the
>>>>>> command line (using -+env:OPCODEDIR to set it won't work), where
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> the opcodes be looked for by default on the different platforms?
>>>>>> In
>>>>>> the same path as the Csound executable?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm asking this because it would be great to have a self contained
>>>>>> Csound that can be run without installing (without the need for
>>>>>> administrative access).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Andrés
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Victor Lazzarini
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>> Not sure of anything simple right now. You can try setting
>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>> OPCODEDIRs. But still there will be a need to supply UB
>>>>>>> dependencies.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Victor
>>>>>>> On 19 Nov 2009, at 21:17, matt ingalls wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> yuck. there's not a way this can be handled in the framework
>>>>>>>> structure, with separate folders for each architecture or
>>>>>>>> something?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Nov 19, 2009, at 12:09 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You'll probably need to solve the problem of plugins, they
>>>>>>>>> will all
>>>>>>>>> have to be UB and
>>>>>>>>> their dependencies too. For instance, liblo will need to be
>>>>>>>>> made UB
>>>>>>>>> for libosc to be made
>>>>>>>>> UB so that Csound can have OSC opcodes.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Victor
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 18 Nov 2009, at 20:40, matt ingalls wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> thanks Victor.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> i agree that it maybe not worth it :)
>>>>>>>>>> ( i was actually about ready to retire MacCsound entirely-
>>>>>>>>>> except
>>>>>>>>>> QuteSound still does not seem as good in real-time and GUI
>>>>>>>>>> response --
>>>>>>>>>> even compared to MacCsound running in Rosetta)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> i am willing to look into UB compile.
>>>>>>>>>> my apologies for being out of touch, but is there some kind of
>>>>>>>>>> document listing what 3rd-party libraries are being used, what
>>>>>>>>>> libraries are absolutely required, etc?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> i also ask about this because i would be interested in getting
>>>>>>>>>> csound
>>>>>>>>>> running on an iPhone -- has anyone tried this yet? as far as i
>>>>>>>>>> understand iPhone apps can't use dynamic frameworks/
>>>>>>>>>> libraries and i
>>>>>>>>>> was wondering if it would be possible to get all the 3rd party
>>>>>>>>>> libraries statically linked. (i assume this will violate
>>>>>>>>>> some of the
>>>>>>>>>> GPL licenses?)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -m
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 18, 2009, at 12:25 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> While it might be possible to build a UB framework, there
>>>>>>>>>>> will be a
>>>>>>>>>>> lot of complication because of the dependencies that would
>>>>>>>>>>> have to
>>>>>>>>>>> themselves be UB. I thought about it, but I thought it was
>>>>>>>>>>> always
>>>>>>>>>>> simpler to build separate binaries. The main thing about the
>>>>>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>>>> state of things is that I spent a good time testing, fixing
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> perfecting things, with the help of the community. My fear is
>>>>>>>>>>> that an
>>>>>>>>>>> attempt at a UB would break things and take too long to get
>>>>>>>>>>> right.
>>>>>>>>>>> But
>>>>>>>>>>> if anyone fancy a challenge, please be my guest.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think at this point, it might not be worth our while for
>>>>>>>>>>> too
>>>>>>>>>>> long.
>>>>>>>>>>> Apple is phasing out support for PPC, so I guess it would
>>>>>>>>>>> not be an
>>>>>>>>>>> issue in the future.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Victor
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 18 Nov 2009, at 20:08, matt ingalls wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> is there *any* possibility of compiling csound framework
>>>>>>>>>>>> as a
>>>>>>>>>>>> Universal Binary?
>>>>>>>>>>>> so that say, for instance, one could have QuteSound and
>>>>>>>>>>>> MacCsound
>>>>>>>>>>>> running on the same intel mac :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> (btw, on 2 separate occassions i tried unsuccessfully to
>>>>>>>>>>>> get a
>>>>>>>>>>>> localized version of csound framework that would be inside
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> MacCsound bundle, using the install_name_tool and o_name
>>>>>>>>>>>> tools --
>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>> the nest of connections among the libraries were too
>>>>>>>>>>>> complicated
>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>> something - i never got it to work)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> matt ingalls
>>>>>>>>>>>> matt@sonomatics.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> matt ingalls
>>>>>>>>>> development@gvox.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> matt ingalls
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> Andrés
>>>>>>
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