OK, this is a new one for me:

> You can embed your samples and all other needed
> files directly into a CSD and let Csound automagically handle extracting
> them and finding them.  There has not been a need to set any environment
> variables or to cd to the right directory under these circumstances for a
> long time.

Please point me to information on how to do this. A search of the Csound
help file doesn't turn up anything for "embed" or "samples." This is how I
should probably distribute my composition that uses samples ("What's in a
Name?").

Art Hunkins

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Anthony Kozar" 
To: "Csound Developer list" 
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 4:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] Search paths


> Well I finally understand exactly what we are talking about here.  I did
not
> realize that the dicussion was started on the other list (I no longer am a
> subscriber) and the first message I saw on this topic was John's cryptic
"If
> the search is to include the location of .orc and .sco, in which order?"
(1)
>
> Anyways, the motivation as I see it seems to be to improve the behavior of
> all of the new front ends without writing code for each.  This is good -- 
I
> am just a little hesitant because the front end I develop already does a
> decent job of dealing with paths in my opinion and I worry about having to
> modify it to deal with changed behavior in Csound.  Hopefully, that won't
be
> an issue.
>
> With luck, the new behavior may even be helpful.  As long as the orc/sco
> locations are appended to the search paths AFTER any directories defined
by
> environment variables or by command-line flags, then I think this will be
> good.  (I am trying to think of circumstances where you would not want
this
> to happen and I cannot come up with anything credible).
>
> On another note though, I will point out to people who are distributing
> compositions with samples, etc. and expect Csound to work "out of the box"
> for downloaders who are not familiar with it that this is exactly what
CSDs
> are supposed to be for.  You can embed your samples and all other needed
> files directly into a CSD and let Csound automagically handle extracting
> them and finding them.  There has not been a need to set any environment
> variables or to cd to the right directory under these circumstances for a
> long time.
>
> Thanks to Steven and others for their patience.  I will take a look at the
> changes in the next few days.
>
> Anthony Kozar
> anthonykozar AT sbcglobal DOT net
>
>
> (1) Looks like I may need to subscribe to the other list (despite the
> unwanted volume of mail) since reading once a week or so on Nabble isn't
> cutting it ...
>
> Victor Lazzarini wrote on 10/19/06 1:50 PM:
>
> > I don't see this so much as a fix, but as an added
> > feature. Thanks, Steven, for writing it.
> >
> >>
> >> Well, the MacClassic frontend has had code and user
> >> options to deal with these issues I think since the
> >> original MIT version for the Mac (System 6). There are
> >> still some shortcomings as I mentioned but I am still
> >> confused as to what is being fixed?
>
>
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The functionality appears to have been around since at least Csound 4.07 but
hardly anyone seems to know about it (and I have never seen anyone _use_ it
except for development & testing).

The tag  can be used to embed any type of file into a .CSD file --
orchestra includes, midi files, audio files, analysis files, etc.  Probably
the reason it has never really been used though is that the file has to be
encoded using "Base64 encoding."  This is simply a way of turning any binary
(or text) file into a text-only format.  Base64 is a standard way of sending
email attachments because email only really allows text.

Csound has been able to read Base64-encoded files for a long time but only
with version 5.00 did it start to include two standard utilities (written by
Istvan Varga) for performing base64 encoding and for wrapping everything up
nicely with a bow in a .CSD file for you.

 is described here:

http://csounds.com/manual/html/CommandUnifileFormat.html#id2861206

The makecsd utility will do both the base64 encoding and the CSD
construction for you and is described here:

http://csounds.com/manual/html/makecsd.html

I do not know for certain which Csound 5 distributions actually include this
utility -- I hope that they all do.

I can send you an example CSD from Istvan if you wish.

Anthony Kozar
anthonykozar AT sbcglobal DOT net


Art Hunkins wrote on 10/19/06 4:36 PM:

> OK, this is a new one for me:
> 
>> You can embed your samples and all other needed
>> files directly into a CSD and let Csound automagically handle extracting
>> them and finding them.  There has not been a need to set any environment
>> variables or to cd to the right directory under these circumstances for a
>> long time.
> 
> Please point me to information on how to do this. A search of the Csound
> help file doesn't turn up anything for "embed" or "samples." This is how I
> should probably distribute my composition that uses samples ("What's in a
> Name?").
> 
> Art Hunkins


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Hi Steven and all,

Although it's true that embedding binary data is somewhat impractical 
for audio files and such, I do very much like and appreciate the work 
developers have put into making the csb64enc utility and the associated 
embedded media possibilities within Csound and sincerely hope that they 
will remain a part of the language.

Take this example[1], IMHO it makes more sense to use embedded media 
specifically for performance information. Another possibility I've 
found useful for the csb64enc utility is to write simple C programs 
(much like the Python script Steven provided as a test for the 
logcurve/expcurve opcodes) which is output to a text file and then used 
as embedded media to load into GEN23.

Related to the topic at hand, one problem I've noticed with the 
embedded media is that if you put embedded media into your .csd file 
and the embedded media's "expanded name" is already taken by a file in 
the directory, the compilation fails when it really shouldn't - as 
nothing is wrong with the .csd. I think that the optimal behaviour 
would append numbers to the embedded media by default to avoid name 
conflicts but I'm not sure how this would be implemented.

To reiterate, I certainly agree that putting multiple audio files like 
drum loops into a .csd as embedded media is sluggish and a bit of a 
pain at times (50 mb text file??) but there are certainly advantages 
and I can only see this feature growing as the technology available 
improves.


-David

[1]


   5.01 or later


; Realtime flags, only tested on Mac OS X
;-odac:1 -iadc:1 -b1024 -B1024 -d -Finv10.mid -T -+rtaudio=coreaudio 
-+rtmidi=null

; Offline render flags, only tested on Mac OS X
;-o/Volumes/Neuromancer/TEMP/bach_inv10-GMaj.aif -Finv10.mid -T -K -A 
-R -+rtmidi=null



; Invention #10 in G Major by J.S. Bach
; also demonstrates use of embedded media in a .csd file

sr		=	44100
kr		=	441
ksmps		=	100
nchnls		=	2
	massign	1, 1
	massign	2, 2

gal	init	0
gar	init	0

itmp	ftgen	1, 0, 16384, 10, 1, 0, 1/3, 0, 1/5, 0, 1/7, 0, 1/9, 0,\
	                         1/11, 0, 1/13, 0, 1/15, 0, 1/17, 0, 1/19
itmp	ftgen	2, 0, 16384, 10, 1/1, 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/5, 1/6, 1/7, 1/8,\
				 1/9, 1/10, 1/11, 1/12, 1/13, 1/14, 1/15, 1/16

/*--- ---*/

		instr	1	; right hand

iamp	ampmidi	4200
kcps	cpsmidib	0
a1	oscil	iamp, kcps+0.002, 1
a2	oscil	iamp, kcps-0.002, 1
aenv	linenr	1, 0.05, 0.05, 0.05
aout	=	(a1+a2)*aenv
a0ut	moogvcf	aout, iamp, 0.707, 0dbfs
anul	=	0

	outs	a0ut, anul
gal	=	gal + a0ut

		endin

/*--- ---*/

		instr	2	; left hand

iamp	ampmidi	4200
kcps	cpsmidib	0
a1	oscil	iamp, kcps+0.002, 2
a2	oscil	iamp, kcps-0.002, 2
aenv	linenr	1, 0.05, 0.05, 0.05
aout	=	(a1+a2)*aenv
anul	=	0

	outs	anul, aout
gar	=	gar + aout

		endin

/*--- ---*/

		instr	25

al	=	gal/1.618
ar	=	gar/1.618

aoutl, aoutr	reverbsc	al, ar, 0.618, sr/2

	outs	aoutl, aoutr

gal	=	0
gar	=	0

		endin

/*--- ---*/


i25	0	360

e


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On Oct 20, 2006, at 12:57 AM, Steven Yi wrote:

> Hi Anthony,
>
> I was never fond of the idea of embedding binary data in CSD files as
> I never understood what anyone gained from it. If I want to study a
> CSD that has lots of binary files embedded in it, it's only going to
> slow down a text editor to open. I'd much prefer files be zipped up as
> a package separately than to have one gigantic text file so I can see
> what files are included rather than try to intuit that by reading the
> CSD. It's also easier to test and debug a CSD when you can check the
> individual parts.  The only thing is packaging everything, but it
> seems like such a small positive to me compared to all of the
> negatives (IMO).
>
> steven
>
>
> On 10/20/06, Anthony Kozar  wrote:
>> The functionality appears to have been around since at least Csound 
>> 4.07 but
>> hardly anyone seems to know about it (and I have never seen anyone 
>> _use_ it
>> except for development & testing).
>>
>> The tag  can be used to embed any type of file into a .CSD 
>> file --
>> orchestra includes, midi files, audio files, analysis files, etc.  
>> Probably
>> the reason it has never really been used though is that the file has 
>> to be
>> encoded using "Base64 encoding."  This is simply a way of turning any 
>> binary
>> (or text) file into a text-only format.  Base64 is a standard way of 
>> sending
>> email attachments because email only really allows text.
>>
>> Csound has been able to read Base64-encoded files for a long time but 
>> only
>> with version 5.00 did it start to include two standard utilities 
>> (written by
>> Istvan Varga) for performing base64 encoding and for wrapping 
>> everything up
>> nicely with a bow in a .CSD file for you.
>>
>>  is described here:
>>
>> http://csounds.com/manual/html/CommandUnifileFormat.html#id2861206
>>
>> The makecsd utility will do both the base64 encoding and the CSD
>> construction for you and is described here:
>>
>> http://csounds.com/manual/html/makecsd.html
>>
>> I do not know for certain which Csound 5 distributions actually 
>> include this
>> utility -- I hope that they all do.
>>
>> I can send you an example CSD from Istvan if you wish.
>>
>> Anthony Kozar
>> anthonykozar AT sbcglobal DOT net
>>
>>
>> Art Hunkins wrote on 10/19/06 4:36 PM:
>>
>>> OK, this is a new one for me:
>>>
>>>> You can embed your samples and all other needed
>>>> files directly into a CSD and let Csound automagically handle 
>>>> extracting
>>>> them and finding them.  There has not been a need to set any 
>>>> environment
>>>> variables or to cd to the right directory under these circumstances 
>>>> for a
>>>> long time.
>>>
>>> Please point me to information on how to do this. A search of the 
>>> Csound
>>> help file doesn't turn up anything for "embed" or "samples." This is 
>>> how I
>>> should probably distribute my composition that uses samples ("What's 
>>> in a
>>> Name?").
>>>
>>> Art Hunkins


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I would love a copy of these examples.

-dB

On Oct 20, 2006, at 12:51 AM, Anthony Kozar wrote:

> The functionality appears to have been around since at least Csound  
> 4.07 but
> hardly anyone seems to know about it (and I have never seen anyone  
> _use_ it
> except for development & testing).
>
> The tag  can be used to embed any type of file into a .CSD  
> file --
> orchestra includes, midi files, audio files, analysis files, etc.   
> Probably
> the reason it has never really been used though is that the file  
> has to be
> encoded using "Base64 encoding."  This is simply a way of turning  
> any binary
> (or text) file into a text-only format.  Base64 is a standard way  
> of sending
> email attachments because email only really allows text.
>
> Csound has been able to read Base64-encoded files for a long time  
> but only
> with version 5.00 did it start to include two standard utilities  
> (written by
> Istvan Varga) for performing base64 encoding and for wrapping  
> everything up
> nicely with a bow in a .CSD file for you.
>
>  is described here:
>
> http://csounds.com/manual/html/CommandUnifileFormat.html#id2861206
>
> The makecsd utility will do both the base64 encoding and the CSD
> construction for you and is described here:
>
> http://csounds.com/manual/html/makecsd.html
>
> I do not know for certain which Csound 5 distributions actually  
> include this
> utility -- I hope that they all do.
>
> I can send you an example CSD from Istvan if you wish.
>
> Anthony Kozar
> anthonykozar AT sbcglobal DOT net
>
>
> Art Hunkins wrote on 10/19/06 4:36 PM:
>
>> OK, this is a new one for me:
>>
>>> You can embed your samples and all other needed
>>> files directly into a CSD and let Csound automagically handle  
>>> extracting
>>> them and finding them.  There has not been a need to set any  
>>> environment
>>> variables or to cd to the right directory under these  
>>> circumstances for a
>>> long time.
>>
>> Please point me to information on how to do this. A search of the  
>> Csound
>> help file doesn't turn up anything for "embed" or "samples." This  
>> is how I
>> should probably distribute my composition that uses samples  
>> ("What's in a
>> Name?").
>>
>> Art Hunkins
>
>
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The point is that binary files in a csd file can be used over the 'net
for remote rendering, either for playing or as a service as we
deployed years ago.
==John ffitch

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Have these utilities been added.  Hope so.

I will try to stay on top of things in the future - only 781 emails  
to go.

I have used the makecsd utility and it was very useful.

-dB

On Oct 20, 2006, at 12:51 AM, Anthony Kozar wrote:

> The functionality appears to have been around since at least Csound  
> 4.07 but
> hardly anyone seems to know about it (and I have never seen anyone  
> _use_ it
> except for development & testing).
>
> The tag  can be used to embed any type of file into a .CSD  
> file --
> orchestra includes, midi files, audio files, analysis files, etc.   
> Probably
> the reason it has never really been used though is that the file  
> has to be
> encoded using "Base64 encoding."  This is simply a way of turning  
> any binary
> (or text) file into a text-only format.  Base64 is a standard way  
> of sending
> email attachments because email only really allows text.
>
> Csound has been able to read Base64-encoded files for a long time  
> but only
> with version 5.00 did it start to include two standard utilities  
> (written by
> Istvan Varga) for performing base64 encoding and for wrapping  
> everything up
> nicely with a bow in a .CSD file for you.
>
>  is described here:
>
> http://csounds.com/manual/html/CommandUnifileFormat.html#id2861206
>
> The makecsd utility will do both the base64 encoding and the CSD
> construction for you and is described here:
>
> http://csounds.com/manual/html/makecsd.html
>
> I do not know for certain which Csound 5 distributions actually  
> include this
> utility -- I hope that they all do.
>
> I can send you an example CSD from Istvan if you wish.
>
> Anthony Kozar
> anthonykozar AT sbcglobal DOT net
>
>
> Art Hunkins wrote on 10/19/06 4:36 PM:
>
>> OK, this is a new one for me:
>>
>>> You can embed your samples and all other needed
>>> files directly into a CSD and let Csound automagically handle  
>>> extracting
>>> them and finding them.  There has not been a need to set any  
>>> environment
>>> variables or to cd to the right directory under these  
>>> circumstances for a
>>> long time.
>>
>> Please point me to information on how to do this. A search of the  
>> Csound
>> help file doesn't turn up anything for "embed" or "samples." This  
>> is how I
>> should probably distribute my composition that uses samples  
>> ("What's in a
>> Name?").
>>
>> Art Hunkins
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ---
> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services,  
> security?
> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your  
> job easier
> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache  
> Geronimo
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? 
> cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
> _______________________________________________
> Csound-devel mailing list
> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel


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Partly.
makecsd is there,
http://www.csounds.com/manual/html/makecsd.html

but I'll add csb64enc later.


Cheers,
Andrés


Dr. Richard Boulanger wrote:
> Have these utilities been added.  Hope so.
>
> I will try to stay on top of things in the future - only 781 emails  
> to go.
>
> I have used the makecsd utility and it was very useful.
>
> -dB
>
> On Oct 20, 2006, at 12:51 AM, Anthony Kozar wrote:
>
>   
>> The functionality appears to have been around since at least Csound  
>> 4.07 but
>> hardly anyone seems to know about it (and I have never seen anyone  
>> _use_ it
>> except for development & testing).
>>
>> The tag  can be used to embed any type of file into a .CSD  
>> file --
>> orchestra includes, midi files, audio files, analysis files, etc.   
>> Probably
>> the reason it has never really been used though is that the file  
>> has to be
>> encoded using "Base64 encoding."  This is simply a way of turning  
>> any binary
>> (or text) file into a text-only format.  Base64 is a standard way  
>> of sending
>> email attachments because email only really allows text.
>>
>> Csound has been able to read Base64-encoded files for a long time  
>> but only
>> with version 5.00 did it start to include two standard utilities  
>> (written by
>> Istvan Varga) for performing base64 encoding and for wrapping  
>> everything up
>> nicely with a bow in a .CSD file for you.
>>
>>  is described here:
>>
>> http://csounds.com/manual/html/CommandUnifileFormat.html#id2861206
>>
>> The makecsd utility will do both the base64 encoding and the CSD
>> construction for you and is described here:
>>
>> http://csounds.com/manual/html/makecsd.html
>>
>> I do not know for certain which Csound 5 distributions actually  
>> include this
>> utility -- I hope that they all do.
>>
>> I can send you an example CSD from Istvan if you wish.
>>
>> Anthony Kozar
>> anthonykozar AT sbcglobal DOT net
>>
>>
>> Art Hunkins wrote on 10/19/06 4:36 PM:
>>
>>     
>>> OK, this is a new one for me:
>>>
>>>       
>>>> You can embed your samples and all other needed
>>>> files directly into a CSD and let Csound automagically handle  
>>>> extracting
>>>> them and finding them.  There has not been a need to set any  
>>>> environment
>>>> variables or to cd to the right directory under these  
>>>> circumstances for a
>>>> long time.
>>>>         
>>> Please point me to information on how to do this. A search of the  
>>> Csound
>>> help file doesn't turn up anything for "embed" or "samples." This  
>>> is how I
>>> should probably distribute my composition that uses samples  
>>> ("What's in a
>>> Name?").
>>>
>>> Art Hunkins
>>>       
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> ---
>> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services,  
>> security?
>> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your  
>> job easier
>> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache  
>> Geronimo
>> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? 
>> cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>     
>
>
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>   


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makecsd and csb64enc are in the sources, of course.  I am not currently
including a binary for them in the MacOS 9 package.  I do not know if anyone
else is including them in the other platforms' packages.

(They are built automatically by Scons so they are hopefully available for
the other platforms).

Anthony

Dr. Richard Boulanger wrote on 3/6/07 11:01 PM:

> Have these utilities been added.  Hope so.
> 
> I will try to stay on top of things in the future - only 781 emails
> to go.
> 
> I have used the makecsd utility and it was very useful.


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