Following on from an earlier message, I have now slightly refined my
model.  For an opcode I am assuming that there is a fix initialisation
A, and a time that is obeyed every k-cycle, B*k+C where k is the
ksmps.
  The table below is of A B and C for the opcodes used in Trapped
which is my basic test.  In the case of i-rate opcodes I have omitted
B and C.
  You will see some oddities mike a few negative numbers, which I have
not understood yet, but I think the larger view is correct.  Counts
are in instructions on a i386, and that may not scale exactly to time.
==John ffitch
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*.ak:	        0       6	15
*.ka:	        0       6	15
*.kk:	        0       0	9
+.aa:           0       6	16
+.kk:	         0      0	9
/.kk:	        0       0       9
=.i             7
=.k:            0       0       7
init:  	        0       4       12
arand:  	52      -0.351226       188.512264
balance:	38      2.351111        274.488889
buzz:	        75      -0.639775       430.385596
cpspch:	        106.368056
delay:          4097	-0.340018       157.403009
expon.k:	178.553846      0	 9
expseg.a:	669.121622     5.000011 37
expseg.k:	669.121622     0.000031 26
foscil:	        81      29	 72
frac.i:	        65
gbuzz:	        77      64.000105 125.499682
int.i:	        67
line.k:	        20             0.000762 8.992379
linen.k:	62             0.000004 20.650515
linseg.k:	266.971564     0.000559 29.994448
octpch.1:	74
oscil.ka:	69      17	 46
oscil.kk:	69      0	 41
oscil.kk:	69      12	 47
oscili.kk:	69      21	 49
outs:	        0       9.563279 21.655083
phasor.a:	38      15.979998 32.000007
phasor.k:	38      -0.000798 27
randh.k:	60	0.058034 34.004509
randi.k:	76	0.015561 35.999951
rassign:	2
reson:	        39      13.002546 99.545002
reverb:	        6963.481481       77.038957 157.999993
subkk:	        0       0	 9
table.a:	93      23.062626 43.997796
table.k:	93      0	 45
tablei.k:	93      0	 61
upsamp:	        0       4	 12

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John,

This is interesting.  Could you explain a bit more about how to  
interpret this data - I would love to share it with my students in  
class tomorrow and give them a clear and accurate sense of the  
computing that is involved in rendering the piece.

Rick

On Jul 29, 2008, at 9:56 AM, jpff wrote:

> Following on from an earlier message, I have now slightly refined my
> model.  For an opcode I am assuming that there is a fix initialisation
> A, and a time that is obeyed every k-cycle, B*k+C where k is the
> ksmps.
>   The table below is of A B and C for the opcodes used in Trapped
> which is my basic test.  In the case of i-rate opcodes I have omitted
> B and C.
>   You will see some oddities mike a few negative numbers, which I have
> not understood yet, but I think the larger view is correct.  Counts
> are in instructions on a i386, and that may not scale exactly to time.
> ==John ffitch
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> --
> *.ak:	        0       6	15
> *.ka:	        0       6	15
> *.kk:	        0       0	9
> +.aa:           0       6	16
> +.kk:	         0      0	9
> /.kk:	        0       0       9
> =.i             7
> =.k:            0       0       7
> init:  	        0       4       12
> arand:  	52      -0.351226       188.512264
> balance:	38      2.351111        274.488889
> buzz:	        75      -0.639775       430.385596
> cpspch:	        106.368056
> delay:          4097	-0.340018       157.403009
> expon.k:	178.553846      0	 9
> expseg.a:	669.121622     5.000011 37
> expseg.k:	669.121622     0.000031 26
> foscil:	        81      29	 72
> frac.i:	        65
> gbuzz:	        77      64.000105 125.499682
> int.i:	        67
> line.k:	        20             0.000762 8.992379
> linen.k:	62             0.000004 20.650515
> linseg.k:	266.971564     0.000559 29.994448
> octpch.1:	74
> oscil.ka:	69      17	 46
> oscil.kk:	69      0	 41
> oscil.kk:	69      12	 47
> oscili.kk:	69      21	 49
> outs:	        0       9.563279 21.655083
> phasor.a:	38      15.979998 32.000007
> phasor.k:	38      -0.000798 27
> randh.k:	60	0.058034 34.004509
> randi.k:	76	0.015561 35.999951
> rassign:	2
> reson:	        39      13.002546 99.545002
> reverb:	        6963.481481       77.038957 157.999993
> subkk:	        0       0	 9
> table.a:	93      23.062626 43.997796
> table.k:	93      0	 45
> tablei.k:	93      0	 61
> upsamp:	        0       4	 12
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ---
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's  
> challenge
> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win  
> great prizes
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> the world
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> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel


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I will try to explain the measurements and the purposes to which they
could be put.

In order that an opcode OP is to be played for T seconds it will need
to be initialised (i-rate) and then it is performed.  The performance
function will be called T*kr times.  Each of these calls has a fixed
cost and a cost that is proportional to ksmps.

So the cost of OP for T secs is
   A + T*kr*(B*ksmps + C)

As ksmps*kr is sr you can view this as

   A + T*sr*B + T*kr*C

A is immutable, B is the cost per sample and C is the cost of using a
kontrol rate.

The measurements were done on an i386 using valgrind and similar
tools, using Trapped and Hans Mikelson's Teknobubble.  Clearly the
figures average the effect of different parameters, and there are some
oddities that suggest that the tools need a little tweak,

So uses: for rt performance it tells you the value of the kr reduction
against quality.  When there are more opcodes measured it should inform
the choice of detailed methods.

For parallelism it is essential that the granularity of the tasks is
considered, and over the years I have played with parallelism I have
seems significant slowdowns as the small granularity messes up the
overhead cost of task switch or distribution.

I hope this clarifies things a little.  I am afraid that at heart I am
a mathematician so formulae are clearer than words in these cases.
Happy to answer questions take requests for particular opcodes to be
measured or whatever improves csound.

Below is my current data set
==John ffitch
------------------------------------------------------------------------
                A       B       C       (missing values are zero)
!=.i:           13
!=.k:           0       0       13
*.ak:	        0       6	15	
*.ka:	        0       6	15	
*.kk:	        0       0	9	
+.aa:           0       6	16	
+.kk:	         0      0	9	
/.ak:           0       6	20
/.kk:	        0       0       9	
=.i             7
=.k:            0       0       7	
=.a:            0        1      15
-.kk:	        0       0	 9	
grain:          497     917.921440 79475.154651
arand:  	52      -0.351226       188.512264
balance:	38      2.351111        274.488889
butterbp:       20       30     71
butterhi:       19       30.000387 35
butterlp:       19       29.005359 45.478359
buzz:	        75      -0.639775       430.385596
cpspch:	        106.368056
delay:          4097	-0.340018       157.403009
exp.i:          19.412868
exp.k:          0       0       19.412868
expon.k:	178.553846      0	 9	
expseg.a:	669.121622     5.000011 37	
expseg.k:	669.121622     0.000031 26	
foscil:	        81      29	 72	
frac.i:	        65	
gbuzz:	        77      64.000105 125.499682
init:  	        0       4       12	
int.i:	        67	
integrate:      13      5       17
kcgoto:         0      0.000022 8.758767
kgoto:          0       0       7
line.k:	        20             0.000762 8.992379
linen.k:	62             0.000004 20.650515
linseg.k:	266.971564     0.000559 29.994448
nlfilt:         1068.813496     52.985889 100.158886
octpch.i:	74	
oscil.ka:	69      17	 46	
oscil.kk:	69      0	 41	
oscil.kk:	69      12	 47	
oscili.kk:	69      21	 49	
outs:	        0       9.563279 21.655083
phasor.a:	38      15.979998 32.000007
phasor.k:	38      -0.000798 27	
randh.k:	60	0.058034 34.004509
randi.k:	76	0.015561 35.999951
=.r:		2	
reinit:         0       0       16335.400000
reson:	        39      13.002546 99.545002
reverb:	        6963.481481       77.038957 157.999993
rms:            32      10      21
sqrt.i:         8
sqrt.k:         0       0       8
table.a:	93      23.062626 43.997796
table.k:	93      0	 45	
tablei.k:	93      0	 61	
timout:         40     -0.002915 15.235836
upsamp:	        0       4	 12	
vdelay: 	2073.886076	53.572573 69.049966
zacl:           14	51      54
zar:            14       1      41
zaw:            14      1.000018 38.998197
zkcl:           14      0       101
zkr:            14      0       32
zkw:            14      0	31.999964
**end**

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Thanks John.... this is really helpful and I can't wait to present  
this email today - and play the piece for the class.
It will be an eye opener for them (as it is for me)

Rick


On Jul 30, 2008, at 4:58 AM, jpff wrote:

> I will try to explain the measurements and the purposes to which they
> could be put.
>
> In order that an opcode OP is to be played for T seconds it will need
> to be initialised (i-rate) and then it is performed.  The performance
> function will be called T*kr times.  Each of these calls has a fixed
> cost and a cost that is proportional to ksmps.
>
> So the cost of OP for T secs is
>    A + T*kr*(B*ksmps + C)
>
> As ksmps*kr is sr you can view this as
>
>    A + T*sr*B + T*kr*C
>
> A is immutable, B is the cost per sample and C is the cost of using a
> kontrol rate.
>
> The measurements were done on an i386 using valgrind and similar
> tools, using Trapped and Hans Mikelson's Teknobubble.  Clearly the
> figures average the effect of different parameters, and there are some
> oddities that suggest that the tools need a little tweak,
>
> So uses: for rt performance it tells you the value of the kr reduction
> against quality.  When there are more opcodes measured it should  
> inform
> the choice of detailed methods.
>
> For parallelism it is essential that the granularity of the tasks is
> considered, and over the years I have played with parallelism I have
> seems significant slowdowns as the small granularity messes up the
> overhead cost of task switch or distribution.
>
> I hope this clarifies things a little.  I am afraid that at heart I am
> a mathematician so formulae are clearer than words in these cases.
> Happy to answer questions take requests for particular opcodes to be
> measured or whatever improves csound.
>
> Below is my current data set
> ==John ffitch
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> --
>                 A       B       C       (missing values are zero)
> !=.i:           13
> !=.k:           0       0       13
> *.ak:	        0       6	15	
> *.ka:	        0       6	15	
> *.kk:	        0       0	9	
> +.aa:           0       6	16	
> +.kk:	         0      0	9	
> /.ak:           0       6	20
> /.kk:	        0       0       9	
> =.i             7
> =.k:            0       0       7	
> =.a:            0        1      15
> -.kk:	        0       0	 9	
> grain:          497     917.921440 79475.154651
> arand:  	52      -0.351226       188.512264
> balance:	38      2.351111        274.488889
> butterbp:       20       30     71
> butterhi:       19       30.000387 35
> butterlp:       19       29.005359 45.478359
> buzz:	        75      -0.639775       430.385596
> cpspch:	        106.368056
> delay:          4097	-0.340018       157.403009
> exp.i:          19.412868
> exp.k:          0       0       19.412868
> expon.k:	178.553846      0	 9	
> expseg.a:	669.121622     5.000011 37	
> expseg.k:	669.121622     0.000031 26	
> foscil:	        81      29	 72	
> frac.i:	        65	
> gbuzz:	        77      64.000105 125.499682
> init:  	        0       4       12	
> int.i:	        67	
> integrate:      13      5       17
> kcgoto:         0      0.000022 8.758767
> kgoto:          0       0       7
> line.k:	        20             0.000762 8.992379
> linen.k:	62             0.000004 20.650515
> linseg.k:	266.971564     0.000559 29.994448
> nlfilt:         1068.813496     52.985889 100.158886
> octpch.i:	74	
> oscil.ka:	69      17	 46	
> oscil.kk:	69      0	 41	
> oscil.kk:	69      12	 47	
> oscili.kk:	69      21	 49	
> outs:	        0       9.563279 21.655083
> phasor.a:	38      15.979998 32.000007
> phasor.k:	38      -0.000798 27	
> randh.k:	60	0.058034 34.004509
> randi.k:	76	0.015561 35.999951
> =.r:		2	
> reinit:         0       0       16335.400000
> reson:	        39      13.002546 99.545002
> reverb:	        6963.481481       77.038957 157.999993
> rms:            32      10      21
> sqrt.i:         8
> sqrt.k:         0       0       8
> table.a:	93      23.062626 43.997796
> table.k:	93      0	 45	
> tablei.k:	93      0	 61	
> timout:         40     -0.002915 15.235836
> upsamp:	        0       4	 12	
> vdelay: 	2073.886076	53.572573 69.049966
> zacl:           14	51      54
> zar:            14       1      41
> zaw:            14      1.000018 38.998197
> zkcl:           14      0       101
> zkr:            14      0       32
> zkw:            14      0	31.999964
> **end**
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ---
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's  
> challenge
> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win  
> great prizes
> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in  
> the world
> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
> _______________________________________________
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> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel


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