Gab has just posted his v 0.0432 which upgrades to Portaudio 1.9, and
includes a host of new opcodes from canonical (even includes "event").

I've spoken to him about the fact that the new Portaudio seems to give
considerably poorer performance with MME drivers than the previous one.

Whereas the old Portaudio didn't require any output adjustment, I've found
on my fairly recent WinME system that an output latency adjustment of 50ms
was required to eliminate "zipper" noise. No such adjustment was required of
the older Portaudio MME.

Art Hunkins

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andres Cabrera" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 12:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] New file release for Csound 5 and CsoundVST on Windows


> Hi,
> On this subject I think it would be great if Gab can take a look at the
> windows realtime code on csound5. His CsoundAV also uses portaudio
> (albeit v18), so it should be a matter of seeing how the implementation
> differs. The difference in performance has to do with the realtime
> implementation in csound5 for windows, and not csound5 specifically
> since csound5 on linux already delivers excellent realtime latency and
> multichannel audio.
>
> Cheers,
> Andres
>
> On Fri, 2005-03-11 at 12:44, Art Hunkins wrote:
> > Mike, I'm 90% with you on this.
> >
> > In two points I differ:
> >
> > 1) Specialized versions like CsoundAV still need attention and
maintenance
> > (by one developer each!), as they need some updating and occasional
> > bug-swatting. (Gab is involved in both these areas currently.) This is
the
> > *now*.
> >
> > 2) Specialized versions will IMO always enjoy some advantage over
> > cross-platform versions, particularly where real-time, graphics, MIDI
are
> > involved. Different platforms handle these areas differently, as you
know
> > far better than I.
> >
> > So I think that specialized versions may *always* fill particular needs,
and
> > be more appropriate to particular conditions (such as more
"user-friendly"
> > on a given platform, better for real-time in Windows, etc.) "One size
fits
> > all" may only work in certain general respects.
> >
> > Art Hunkins
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Michael Gogins" 
> > To: 
> > Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 11:52 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] New file release for Csound 5 and CsoundVST on
Windows
> >
> >
> > > Of course I am not advocating that you cease using tools that work for
> > you.
> > >
> > > But I am advocating that Gabriel Maldonado, Matt Ingalls, and others
who
> > have developed these tools stop developing their personal variants of
Csound
> > and begin contributing to Csound 5.
> > >
> > > (I will not be angry with them or think they are fools if they don't
do
> > this, because I don't take these things personally.)
> > >
> > > When I came on board Csound 5, I speeded up its development
considerably.
> > When Istvan Varga became a Csound 5 developer, the pace of development
> > accelerated even more.  If Gabriel and Matt become Csound 5 developers,
the
> > pace of development should increase yet more. And our efforts will no
longer
> > be duplicated, leading to an increase in the introduction of new
features
> > and the elimination of more bugs.
> > >
> > > After all, I used to maintain my own version of Csound.  Stopping
doing
> > that was one of the smartest things I have ever done. I still have to
fix a
> > few things in CsoundVST that get broken by other Csound 5 developers,
but
> > the number of things I have to fix and the duplication of effort that I
must
> > make has been cut to a fraction of what it was. The time that I have
left, I
> > have been using either to create new features (such as the ID tags
options,
> > re-introducing Maurizio Puxeddu's Python opcodes, porting the Loris
opcodes,
> > helping Andres Cabrera with the VST wrapper opcodes, working with Steven
Yi
> > on the Fluidsynth opcodes), improving the manual, or to.... compose!
Wow!
> > >
> > > If this happens, then of course you can continue to use CsoundAV or
> > whatever until Csound 5 is in a state that satisfies you. None of this
> > activity can harm you or your work in any way. Adding to Csound 5 does
not
> > subtract from CsoundAV or MacCsound.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Art Hunkins 
> > > Sent: Mar 11, 2005 11:38 AM
> > > To: csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] New file release for Csound 5 and CsoundVST on
> > Windows
> > >
> > > True - though you developers individually will need to make that
decision.
> > > And I'll have to make my own decisions about the platforms I choose
and
> > how
> > > I relate to the cross-platform issue.
> > >
> > > There is certainly *much* to be said for platform-specific versions of
> > > Csound, particularly for real-time work. Examples: 1) it will be a
long
> > time
> > > before realtime audio output on Csound5 approaches the simplicity,
> > > dependability and low latency, etc. of CsoundAV; 2) as Istvan admits
> > below,
> > > it's a lot easier to come up with defaults that suit Windows realtime,
> > than
> > > ones that suit all platforms (thus requiring the user to have to
"fool"
> > with
> > > what should be default settings. I'm *still* waiting for the -B flag
> > > requirement to become optional in CS5 - and, yes, it's very much a
hassle
> > > for me. We need defaults!)
> > >
> > > I'll personally address AV issues directly with Gab Maldonado (as I am
> > > currently), and CS5 issues generally with the developer group (as
here).
> > The
> > > AV world is *now*; CS5 is more and more the future.
> > >
> > > You mention "by the end of the year." I *hope* to be composing by
then,
> > but
> > > I'm actually composing (and living) right now - and I must work with
the
> > > tools I've got and when I have the (God-given) time to use them.
> > >
> > > So, God bless Gab Maldonado and CsoundAV - and for that matter, Matt
> > Ingalls
> > > and MacCsound. (There are others who feel just as dedicated to these
> > > specialized programs as I do.) Their efforts - *continuing* efforts -
make
> > > it possible for many of us *actually to compose with Csound*.
> > >
> > > Of course, God bless you other developers too. You are a very
important
> > part
> > > of our future. Hopefully, CS5 will reach the same level of performance
and
> > > user-friendliness for Windows and Mac users that CsoundAV and
MacCsound
> > have
> > > enjoyed for some time now.
> > >
> > > Art Hunkins
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Michael Gogins" 
> > > To: 
> > > Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 9:34 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] New file release for Csound 5 and CsoundVST on
> > Windows
> > >
> > >
> > > > Not only that, if but the developers of various versions pooled
their
> > > efforts on csound 5, we would have a superior version that works on
all
> > > platforms before the end of this year. And there would not be anything
> > else
> > > in computer music remotely as powerful.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Istvan Varga 
> > > > Sent: Mar 11, 2005 7:03 AM
> > > > To: csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] New file release for Csound 5 and CsoundVST on
> > > Windows
> > > >
> > > > Art Hunkins wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > in CsoundAV (in contrast to all others) I *never* have to fool
> > > >  > with buffer settings.
> > > >
> > > > CsoundAV does not, and will probably never run on anything other
> > > > than Windows, making it much easier to find default buffer settings.
> > > >
> > > > > In CS5 Windows, the buffer issue is quite unclear and changing
> > > >
> > > > More details on this ?
> > > >
> > > >  > plus seems to be different on different platforms.
> > > >
> > > > Well, but Csound5 at least actually runs on different platforms.
> > > > And things like buffer settings are highly machine dependent.
> > > >
> > > > > Also, since only ASIO is implemented, regular soundcard users have
to
> > > >  > install and configure ASIO4ALL.
> > > >
> > > > PortAudio is not limited to ASIO, it also supports DirectSound and
MME
> > > > (as well as WDM but that is experimental). You may want to ask
Michael
> > > > Gogins to include a PortAudio module that is compiled to use
DirectSound
> > > > in the next Windows file release.
> > > >
> > > > > I'll also add that Gab Maldonado has been active in maintaining
and
> > > > > debugging CsoundAV, and personally responsive to my particular
needs
> > > (i.e.,
> > > > > realtime performance).
> > > >
> > > > Now if only all the efforts on maintaining the various platform
specific
> > > > Csound variants derived from old versions of Csound4 would be spent
on
> > > > Csound5, we would eventually get one good version instead of several
> > > > broken ones, all with their own set of bugs that have been fixed in
> > > others.
> > > > And the fact is that in recent years CsoundAV was only actively
> > developed
> > > > in the areas of real time audio, OpenGL, and FLTK, while core
language
> > > > support is still only 4.19.
> > > >
> > > >
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