is there *any* possibility of compiling csound framework as a  
Universal Binary?
so that say, for instance, one could have QuteSound and MacCsound  
running on the same intel mac :)

(btw, on 2 separate occassions i tried unsuccessfully to get a  
localized version of csound framework that would be inside the  
MacCsound bundle, using the install_name_tool and o_name tools -- but  
the nest of connections among the libraries were too complicated or  
something - i never got it to work)

matt ingalls
matt@sonomatics.com



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While it might be possible to build a UB framework, there will be a  
lot of complication because of the dependencies that would have to  
themselves be UB. I thought about it, but I thought it was always  
simpler to build separate binaries. The main thing about the current  
state of things is that I spent a good time testing, fixing and  
perfecting things, with the help of the community. My fear is that an  
attempt at a UB would break things and take too long to get right. But  
if anyone fancy a challenge, please be my guest.

I think at this point, it might not be worth our while for too long.  
Apple is phasing out support for PPC, so I guess it would not be an  
issue in the future.

Victor

On 18 Nov 2009, at 20:08, matt ingalls wrote:

>
> is there *any* possibility of compiling csound framework as a
> Universal Binary?
> so that say, for instance, one could have QuteSound and MacCsound
> running on the same intel mac :)
>
> (btw, on 2 separate occassions i tried unsuccessfully to get a
> localized version of csound framework that would be inside the
> MacCsound bundle, using the install_name_tool and o_name tools -- but
> the nest of connections among the libraries were too complicated or
> something - i never got it to work)
>
> matt ingalls
> matt@sonomatics.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008  
> 30-Day
> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and  
> focus on
> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
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thanks Victor.

i agree that it maybe not worth it :)
( i was actually about ready to retire MacCsound entirely- except  
QuteSound still does not seem as good in real-time and GUI response --  
even compared to MacCsound running in Rosetta)

i am willing to look into UB compile.
my apologies for being out of touch, but is there some kind of  
document listing what 3rd-party libraries are being used,  what  
libraries are absolutely required, etc?

i also ask about this because i would be interested in getting csound  
running on an iPhone -- has anyone tried this yet?  as far as i  
understand iPhone apps can't use dynamic frameworks/libraries and i  
was wondering if it would be possible to get all the 3rd party  
libraries statically linked. (i assume this will violate some of the  
GPL licenses?)

-m

On Nov 18, 2009, at 12:25 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:

> While it might be possible to build a UB framework, there will be a
> lot of complication because of the dependencies that would have to
> themselves be UB. I thought about it, but I thought it was always
> simpler to build separate binaries. The main thing about the current
> state of things is that I spent a good time testing, fixing and
> perfecting things, with the help of the community. My fear is that an
> attempt at a UB would break things and take too long to get right. But
> if anyone fancy a challenge, please be my guest.
>
> I think at this point, it might not be worth our while for too long.
> Apple is phasing out support for PPC, so I guess it would not be an
> issue in the future.
>
> Victor
>
> On 18 Nov 2009, at 20:08, matt ingalls wrote:
>
>>
>> is there *any* possibility of compiling csound framework as a
>> Universal Binary?
>> so that say, for instance, one could have QuteSound and MacCsound
>> running on the same intel mac :)
>>
>> (btw, on 2 separate occassions i tried unsuccessfully to get a
>> localized version of csound framework that would be inside the
>> MacCsound bundle, using the install_name_tool and o_name tools -- but
>> the nest of connections among the libraries were too complicated or
>> something - i never got it to work)
>>
>> matt ingalls
>> matt@sonomatics.com
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
>> 30-Day
>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>> focus on
>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>
>
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matt ingalls
development@gvox.com




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It is possible, when I build AlgoScore as an UB, csoundlib needs to be 
UB too, so I glue PPC and Intel csoundlibs together with lipo.
See "Make a universal CsoundLib" on this page:
http://download.gna.org/algoscore/Help/algoscore-manual.html#osxbuild

matt ingalls wrote:
> is there *any* possibility of compiling csound framework as a  
> Universal Binary?
> so that say, for instance, one could have QuteSound and MacCsound  
> running on the same intel mac :)
> 
> (btw, on 2 separate occassions i tried unsuccessfully to get a  
> localized version of csound framework that would be inside the  
> MacCsound bundle, using the install_name_tool and o_name tools -- but  
> the nest of connections among the libraries were too complicated or  
> something - i never got it to work)
> 
> matt ingalls
> matt@sonomatics.com
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on 
> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
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> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel


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Listen to my strong advice: do nothing here. Put your investment of
skill and work in places with higher payoff.

Best,
Mike

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Jonatan Liljedahl  wrote:
> It is possible, when I build AlgoScore as an UB, csoundlib needs to be
> UB too, so I glue PPC and Intel csoundlibs together with lipo.
> See "Make a universal CsoundLib" on this page:
> http://download.gna.org/algoscore/Help/algoscore-manual.html#osxbuild
>
> matt ingalls wrote:
>> is there *any* possibility of compiling csound framework as a
>> Universal Binary?
>> so that say, for instance, one could have QuteSound and MacCsound
>> running on the same intel mac :)
>>
>> (btw, on 2 separate occassions i tried unsuccessfully to get a
>> localized version of csound framework that would be inside the
>> MacCsound bundle, using the install_name_tool and o_name tools -- but
>> the nest of connections among the libraries were too complicated or
>> something - i never got it to work)
>>
>> matt ingalls
>> matt@sonomatics.com
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>
>
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-- 
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Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com

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That is a good solution. Are there any issues with plugins and their  
dependencies? Are they all built as UBs?

Victor

On 18 Nov 2009, at 21:06, Jonatan Liljedahl wrote:

> It is possible, when I build AlgoScore as an UB, csoundlib needs to be
> UB too, so I glue PPC and Intel csoundlibs together with lipo.
> See "Make a universal CsoundLib" on this page:
> http://download.gna.org/algoscore/Help/algoscore-manual.html#osxbuild
>
> matt ingalls wrote:
>> is there *any* possibility of compiling csound framework as a
>> Universal Binary?
>> so that say, for instance, one could have QuteSound and MacCsound
>> running on the same intel mac :)
>>
>> (btw, on 2 separate occassions i tried unsuccessfully to get a
>> localized version of csound framework that would be inside the
>> MacCsound bundle, using the install_name_tool and o_name tools -- but
>> the nest of connections among the libraries were too complicated or
>> something - i never got it to work)
>>
>> matt ingalls
>> matt@sonomatics.com
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports  
>> 2008 30-Day
>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment -  
>> and focus on
>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
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>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>
>
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awesome!  i'll give it a try..

>
> On 18 Nov 2009, at 21:06, Jonatan Liljedahl wrote:
>
>> It is possible, when I build AlgoScore as an UB, csoundlib needs to  
>> be
>> UB too, so I glue PPC and Intel csoundlibs together with lipo.
>> See "Make a universal CsoundLib" on this page:
>> http://download.gna.org/algoscore/Help/algoscore-manual.html#osxbuild
>>
>> matt ingalls wrote:
>>> is there *any* possibility of compiling csound framework as a
>>> Universal Binary?
>>> so that say, for instance, one could have QuteSound and MacCsound
>>> running on the same intel mac :)
>>>
>>> (btw, on 2 separate occassions i tried unsuccessfully to get a
>>> localized version of csound framework that would be inside the
>>> MacCsound bundle, using the install_name_tool and o_name tools --  
>>> but
>>> the nest of connections among the libraries were too complicated or
>>> something - i never got it to work)
>>>
>>> matt ingalls
>>> matt@sonomatics.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports
>>> 2008 30-Day
>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment -
>>> and focus on
>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>>
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>> focus on
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>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>
>
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matt ingalls
matt@sonomatics.com




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But some of us have PPC Macs and will still have them for some years.
==John ffitch

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Everything could certainly be statically linked, I think, on most platforms.

I wonder what the situation is with Android apps as opposed to the
iPhone (I have an Android phone myself and I like it).

Regards,
Mike

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 3:40 PM, matt ingalls  wrote:
> thanks Victor.
>
> i agree that it maybe not worth it :)
> ( i was actually about ready to retire MacCsound entirely- except
> QuteSound still does not seem as good in real-time and GUI response --
> even compared to MacCsound running in Rosetta)
>
> i am willing to look into UB compile.
> my apologies for being out of touch, but is there some kind of
> document listing what 3rd-party libraries are being used,  what
> libraries are absolutely required, etc?
>
> i also ask about this because i would be interested in getting csound
> running on an iPhone -- has anyone tried this yet?  as far as i
> understand iPhone apps can't use dynamic frameworks/libraries and i
> was wondering if it would be possible to get all the 3rd party
> libraries statically linked. (i assume this will violate some of the
> GPL licenses?)
>
> -m
>
> On Nov 18, 2009, at 12:25 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>
>> While it might be possible to build a UB framework, there will be a
>> lot of complication because of the dependencies that would have to
>> themselves be UB. I thought about it, but I thought it was always
>> simpler to build separate binaries. The main thing about the current
>> state of things is that I spent a good time testing, fixing and
>> perfecting things, with the help of the community. My fear is that an
>> attempt at a UB would break things and take too long to get right. But
>> if anyone fancy a challenge, please be my guest.
>>
>> I think at this point, it might not be worth our while for too long.
>> Apple is phasing out support for PPC, so I guess it would not be an
>> issue in the future.
>>
>> Victor
>>
>> On 18 Nov 2009, at 20:08, matt ingalls wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> is there *any* possibility of compiling csound framework as a
>>> Universal Binary?
>>> so that say, for instance, one could have QuteSound and MacCsound
>>> running on the same intel mac :)
>>>
>>> (btw, on 2 separate occassions i tried unsuccessfully to get a
>>> localized version of csound framework that would be inside the
>>> MacCsound bundle, using the install_name_tool and o_name tools -- but
>>> the nest of connections among the libraries were too complicated or
>>> something - i never got it to work)
>>>
>>> matt ingalls
>>> matt@sonomatics.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
>>> 30-Day
>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>>> focus on
>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> focus on
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>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>
>
>
> matt ingalls
> development@gvox.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com

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This would be great. I've recently starting writing iapps with rjdj
and while it's lots of fun I'd rather use Csound than Pd.

Rory.


2009/11/19 Michael Gogins :
> Everything could certainly be statically linked, I think, on most platforms.
>
> I wonder what the situation is with Android apps as opposed to the
> iPhone (I have an Android phone myself and I like it).
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 3:40 PM, matt ingalls  wrote:
>> thanks Victor.
>>
>> i agree that it maybe not worth it :)
>> ( i was actually about ready to retire MacCsound entirely- except
>> QuteSound still does not seem as good in real-time and GUI response --
>> even compared to MacCsound running in Rosetta)
>>
>> i am willing to look into UB compile.
>> my apologies for being out of touch, but is there some kind of
>> document listing what 3rd-party libraries are being used,  what
>> libraries are absolutely required, etc?
>>
>> i also ask about this because i would be interested in getting csound
>> running on an iPhone -- has anyone tried this yet?  as far as i
>> understand iPhone apps can't use dynamic frameworks/libraries and i
>> was wondering if it would be possible to get all the 3rd party
>> libraries statically linked. (i assume this will violate some of the
>> GPL licenses?)
>>
>> -m
>>
>> On Nov 18, 2009, at 12:25 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>
>>> While it might be possible to build a UB framework, there will be a
>>> lot of complication because of the dependencies that would have to
>>> themselves be UB. I thought about it, but I thought it was always
>>> simpler to build separate binaries. The main thing about the current
>>> state of things is that I spent a good time testing, fixing and
>>> perfecting things, with the help of the community. My fear is that an
>>> attempt at a UB would break things and take too long to get right. But
>>> if anyone fancy a challenge, please be my guest.
>>>
>>> I think at this point, it might not be worth our while for too long.
>>> Apple is phasing out support for PPC, so I guess it would not be an
>>> issue in the future.
>>>
>>> Victor
>>>
>>> On 18 Nov 2009, at 20:08, matt ingalls wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> is there *any* possibility of compiling csound framework as a
>>>> Universal Binary?
>>>> so that say, for instance, one could have QuteSound and MacCsound
>>>> running on the same intel mac :)
>>>>
>>>> (btw, on 2 separate occassions i tried unsuccessfully to get a
>>>> localized version of csound framework that would be inside the
>>>> MacCsound bundle, using the install_name_tool and o_name tools -- but
>>>> the nest of connections among the libraries were too complicated or
>>>> something - i never got it to work)
>>>>
>>>> matt ingalls
>>>> matt@sonomatics.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
>>>> 30-Day
>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>>>> focus on
>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>> 30-Day
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>>> focus on
>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
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>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>>
>>
>> matt ingalls
>> development@gvox.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> Michael Gogins
> Irreducible Productions
> http://www.michael-gogins.com
> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>
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A suggestion: why don't you collaborate in QuteCsound to make it  
better, your expertise would surely be appreciated. While I think  
MacCsound is a great program, it is a shame it's locked into a closed- 
source GUI toolkit.

I guess the main difference in performance is probably due to the IO  
handling. If I remember it, you have your own code on OSX that puts  
the calls to performKsmps() etc in the CoreAudio callback. That would  
make it tighter than using PortAudio asynchronously on top of CoreAudio.

Victor

On 18 Nov 2009, at 20:40, matt ingalls wrote:

> thanks Victor.
>
> i agree that it maybe not worth it :)
> ( i was actually about ready to retire MacCsound entirely- except
> QuteSound still does not seem as good in real-time and GUI response --
> even compared to MacCsound running in Rosetta)
>
> i am willing to look into UB compile.
> my apologies for being out of touch, but is there some kind of
> document listing what 3rd-party libraries are being used,  what
> libraries are absolutely required, etc?
>
> i also ask about this because i would be interested in getting csound
> running on an iPhone -- has anyone tried this yet?  as far as i
> understand iPhone apps can't use dynamic frameworks/libraries and i
> was wondering if it would be possible to get all the 3rd party
> libraries statically linked. (i assume this will violate some of the
> GPL licenses?)
>
> -m
>
> On Nov 18, 2009, at 12:25 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>
>> While it might be possible to build a UB framework, there will be a
>> lot of complication because of the dependencies that would have to
>> themselves be UB. I thought about it, but I thought it was always
>> simpler to build separate binaries. The main thing about the current
>> state of things is that I spent a good time testing, fixing and
>> perfecting things, with the help of the community. My fear is that an
>> attempt at a UB would break things and take too long to get right.  
>> But
>> if anyone fancy a challenge, please be my guest.
>>
>> I think at this point, it might not be worth our while for too long.
>> Apple is phasing out support for PPC, so I guess it would not be an
>> issue in the future.
>>
>> Victor
>>
>> On 18 Nov 2009, at 20:08, matt ingalls wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> is there *any* possibility of compiling csound framework as a
>>> Universal Binary?
>>> so that say, for instance, one could have QuteSound and MacCsound
>>> running on the same intel mac :)
>>>
>>> (btw, on 2 separate occassions i tried unsuccessfully to get a
>>> localized version of csound framework that would be inside the
>>> MacCsound bundle, using the install_name_tool and o_name tools --  
>>> but
>>> the nest of connections among the libraries were too complicated or
>>> something - i never got it to work)
>>>
>>> matt ingalls
>>> matt@sonomatics.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
>>> 30-Day
>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>>> focus on
>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> 30-Day
>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>> focus on
>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>
>
>
> matt ingalls
> development@gvox.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> 30-Day
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i did put a lot of work into MacCsound and if it still has some  
benefit over the others, i think it would be good to keep it on life  
support as long as needed.   it certainly would be pointless to port  
it this point.

  i certainly am willing to help out with QuteCsound if i can -- if  
there is any code from MacCsound to be recycled i would be happy to  
add it in --  although i do have some other csound host projects i  
want to work on..  and --  i have to admit, it is a bit hurtful to  
have QuteCound marketed as "a drop in replacement for MacCsound"  
instead of something like "fully compatible with MacCsound files".  it  
feels more like competition than collaboration (no one ever directly  
asked me to be part of this as far as i know), but perfectly  
understandable, plus i have been out of the loop and off the email  
lists for a while...

-m

On Nov 19, 2009, at 9:24 AM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:

> A suggestion: why don't you collaborate in QuteCsound to make it
> better, your expertise would surely be appreciated. While I think
> MacCsound is a great program, it is a shame it's locked into a closed-
> source GUI toolkit.
>
> I guess the main difference in performance is probably due to the IO
> handling. If I remember it, you have your own code on OSX that puts
> the calls to performKsmps() etc in the CoreAudio callback. That would
> make it tighter than using PortAudio asynchronously on top of  
> CoreAudio.
>
> Victor
>
> On 18 Nov 2009, at 20:40, matt ingalls wrote:
>
>> thanks Victor.
>>
>> i agree that it maybe not worth it :)
>> ( i was actually about ready to retire MacCsound entirely- except
>> QuteSound still does not seem as good in real-time and GUI response  
>> --
>> even compared to MacCsound running in Rosetta)
>>
>> i am willing to look into UB compile.
>> my apologies for being out of touch, but is there some kind of
>> document listing what 3rd-party libraries are being used,  what
>> libraries are absolutely required, etc?
>>
>> i also ask about this because i would be interested in getting csound
>> running on an iPhone -- has anyone tried this yet?  as far as i
>> understand iPhone apps can't use dynamic frameworks/libraries and i
>> was wondering if it would be possible to get all the 3rd party
>> libraries statically linked. (i assume this will violate some of the
>> GPL licenses?)
>>
>> -m
>>
>> On Nov 18, 2009, at 12:25 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>
>>> While it might be possible to build a UB framework, there will be a
>>> lot of complication because of the dependencies that would have to
>>> themselves be UB. I thought about it, but I thought it was always
>>> simpler to build separate binaries. The main thing about the current
>>> state of things is that I spent a good time testing, fixing and
>>> perfecting things, with the help of the community. My fear is that  
>>> an
>>> attempt at a UB would break things and take too long to get right.
>>> But
>>> if anyone fancy a challenge, please be my guest.
>>>
>>> I think at this point, it might not be worth our while for too long.
>>> Apple is phasing out support for PPC, so I guess it would not be an
>>> issue in the future.
>>>
>>> Victor
>>>
>>> On 18 Nov 2009, at 20:08, matt ingalls wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> is there *any* possibility of compiling csound framework as a
>>>> Universal Binary?
>>>> so that say, for instance, one could have QuteSound and MacCsound
>>>> running on the same intel mac :)
>>>>
>>>> (btw, on 2 separate occassions i tried unsuccessfully to get a
>>>> localized version of csound framework that would be inside the
>>>> MacCsound bundle, using the install_name_tool and o_name tools --
>>>> but
>>>> the nest of connections among the libraries were too complicated or
>>>> something - i never got it to work)
>>>>
>>>> matt ingalls
>>>> matt@sonomatics.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports  
>>>> 2008
>>>> 30-Day
>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment -  
>>>> and
>>>> focus on
>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>> 30-Day
>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>>> focus on
>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>>
>>
>> matt ingalls
>> development@gvox.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> 30-Day
>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>> focus on
>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> focus on
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matt ingalls
matt@sonomatics.com




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You'll probably need to solve the problem of plugins, they will all  
have to be UB and
their dependencies too. For instance, liblo will need to be made UB  
for libosc to be made
UB so that Csound can have OSC opcodes.

Victor


On 18 Nov 2009, at 20:40, matt ingalls wrote:

> thanks Victor.
>
> i agree that it maybe not worth it :)
> ( i was actually about ready to retire MacCsound entirely- except
> QuteSound still does not seem as good in real-time and GUI response --
> even compared to MacCsound running in Rosetta)
>
> i am willing to look into UB compile.
> my apologies for being out of touch, but is there some kind of
> document listing what 3rd-party libraries are being used,  what
> libraries are absolutely required, etc?
>
> i also ask about this because i would be interested in getting csound
> running on an iPhone -- has anyone tried this yet?  as far as i
> understand iPhone apps can't use dynamic frameworks/libraries and i
> was wondering if it would be possible to get all the 3rd party
> libraries statically linked. (i assume this will violate some of the
> GPL licenses?)
>
> -m
>
> On Nov 18, 2009, at 12:25 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>
>> While it might be possible to build a UB framework, there will be a
>> lot of complication because of the dependencies that would have to
>> themselves be UB. I thought about it, but I thought it was always
>> simpler to build separate binaries. The main thing about the current
>> state of things is that I spent a good time testing, fixing and
>> perfecting things, with the help of the community. My fear is that an
>> attempt at a UB would break things and take too long to get right.  
>> But
>> if anyone fancy a challenge, please be my guest.
>>
>> I think at this point, it might not be worth our while for too long.
>> Apple is phasing out support for PPC, so I guess it would not be an
>> issue in the future.
>>
>> Victor
>>
>> On 18 Nov 2009, at 20:08, matt ingalls wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> is there *any* possibility of compiling csound framework as a
>>> Universal Binary?
>>> so that say, for instance, one could have QuteSound and MacCsound
>>> running on the same intel mac :)
>>>
>>> (btw, on 2 separate occassions i tried unsuccessfully to get a
>>> localized version of csound framework that would be inside the
>>> MacCsound bundle, using the install_name_tool and o_name tools --  
>>> but
>>> the nest of connections among the libraries were too complicated or
>>> something - i never got it to work)
>>>
>>> matt ingalls
>>> matt@sonomatics.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
>>> 30-Day
>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>>> focus on
>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
>> 30-Day
>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>> focus on
>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>
>
>
> matt ingalls
> development@gvox.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> 30-Day
> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and  
> focus on
> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
> _______________________________________________
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> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel


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Is there a runtime in the iPhone for Intel binaries? Or do you compile  
it again
for the platform? I guess that would mean having to put together a  
completely
new project from the sources.

Victor
On 18 Nov 2009, at 20:40, matt ingalls wrote:

> thanks Victor.
>
> i agree that it maybe not worth it :)
> ( i was actually about ready to retire MacCsound entirely- except
> QuteSound still does not seem as good in real-time and GUI response --
> even compared to MacCsound running in Rosetta)
>
> i am willing to look into UB compile.
> my apologies for being out of touch, but is there some kind of
> document listing what 3rd-party libraries are being used,  what
> libraries are absolutely required, etc?
>
> i also ask about this because i would be interested in getting csound
> running on an iPhone -- has anyone tried this yet?  as far as i
> understand iPhone apps can't use dynamic frameworks/libraries and i
> was wondering if it would be possible to get all the 3rd party
> libraries statically linked. (i assume this will violate some of the
> GPL licenses?)
>
> -m
>
> On Nov 18, 2009, at 12:25 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>
>> While it might be possible to build a UB framework, there will be a
>> lot of complication because of the dependencies that would have to
>> themselves be UB. I thought about it, but I thought it was always
>> simpler to build separate binaries. The main thing about the current
>> state of things is that I spent a good time testing, fixing and
>> perfecting things, with the help of the community. My fear is that an
>> attempt at a UB would break things and take too long to get right.  
>> But
>> if anyone fancy a challenge, please be my guest.
>>
>> I think at this point, it might not be worth our while for too long.
>> Apple is phasing out support for PPC, so I guess it would not be an
>> issue in the future.
>>
>> Victor
>>
>> On 18 Nov 2009, at 20:08, matt ingalls wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> is there *any* possibility of compiling csound framework as a
>>> Universal Binary?
>>> so that say, for instance, one could have QuteSound and MacCsound
>>> running on the same intel mac :)
>>>
>>> (btw, on 2 separate occassions i tried unsuccessfully to get a
>>> localized version of csound framework that would be inside the
>>> MacCsound bundle, using the install_name_tool and o_name tools --  
>>> but
>>> the nest of connections among the libraries were too complicated or
>>> something - i never got it to work)
>>>
>>> matt ingalls
>>> matt@sonomatics.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
>>> 30-Day
>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>>> focus on
>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> 30-Day
>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>> focus on
>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>
>
>
> matt ingalls
> development@gvox.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> 30-Day
> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and  
> focus on
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel


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Hi Matt,

I am very sorry you feel this way. I never intended to offend you, and
I will take this out this weekend when I get the time, what I meant by
drop in replacement is not saying you must get rid of MacCsound and
use QuteCsound instead, but rather, if the platform you are on does
not run MacCsound and you have MacCsound files or want MacCsound
functionality you can use these files and have this functionality with
QuteCsound. I never imagined this could be offensive and I apologize.
What I was after when I wrote QuteCsound was not compete with
MacCsound but rather have something like MacCsound for other platforms
(I always wanted MacCsound, but never had a Mac). That is why it is so
strongly based on it. I still recognize MacCsound as very innovative,
while QuteCsound is in many ways just playing catchup, albeit offering
functionality that was previously unavailable on other platforms.
I would very much welcome your help in improving QuteCsound's performance.

Cheers,
Andrés

On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 6:09 PM, matt ingalls  wrote:
> i did put a lot of work into MacCsound and if it still has some
> benefit over the others, i think it would be good to keep it on life
> support as long as needed.   it certainly would be pointless to port
> it this point.
>
>  i certainly am willing to help out with QuteCsound if i can -- if
> there is any code from MacCsound to be recycled i would be happy to
> add it in --  although i do have some other csound host projects i
> want to work on..  and --  i have to admit, it is a bit hurtful to
> have QuteCound marketed as "a drop in replacement for MacCsound"
> instead of something like "fully compatible with MacCsound files".  it
> feels more like competition than collaboration (no one ever directly
> asked me to be part of this as far as i know), but perfectly
> understandable, plus i have been out of the loop and off the email
> lists for a while...
>
> -m
>
> On Nov 19, 2009, at 9:24 AM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>
>> A suggestion: why don't you collaborate in QuteCsound to make it
>> better, your expertise would surely be appreciated. While I think
>> MacCsound is a great program, it is a shame it's locked into a closed-
>> source GUI toolkit.
>>
>> I guess the main difference in performance is probably due to the IO
>> handling. If I remember it, you have your own code on OSX that puts
>> the calls to performKsmps() etc in the CoreAudio callback. That would
>> make it tighter than using PortAudio asynchronously on top of
>> CoreAudio.
>>
>> Victor
>>
>> On 18 Nov 2009, at 20:40, matt ingalls wrote:
>>
>>> thanks Victor.
>>>
>>> i agree that it maybe not worth it :)
>>> ( i was actually about ready to retire MacCsound entirely- except
>>> QuteSound still does not seem as good in real-time and GUI response
>>> --
>>> even compared to MacCsound running in Rosetta)
>>>
>>> i am willing to look into UB compile.
>>> my apologies for being out of touch, but is there some kind of
>>> document listing what 3rd-party libraries are being used,  what
>>> libraries are absolutely required, etc?
>>>
>>> i also ask about this because i would be interested in getting csound
>>> running on an iPhone -- has anyone tried this yet?  as far as i
>>> understand iPhone apps can't use dynamic frameworks/libraries and i
>>> was wondering if it would be possible to get all the 3rd party
>>> libraries statically linked. (i assume this will violate some of the
>>> GPL licenses?)
>>>
>>> -m
>>>
>>> On Nov 18, 2009, at 12:25 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>>
>>>> While it might be possible to build a UB framework, there will be a
>>>> lot of complication because of the dependencies that would have to
>>>> themselves be UB. I thought about it, but I thought it was always
>>>> simpler to build separate binaries. The main thing about the current
>>>> state of things is that I spent a good time testing, fixing and
>>>> perfecting things, with the help of the community. My fear is that
>>>> an
>>>> attempt at a UB would break things and take too long to get right.
>>>> But
>>>> if anyone fancy a challenge, please be my guest.
>>>>
>>>> I think at this point, it might not be worth our while for too long.
>>>> Apple is phasing out support for PPC, so I guess it would not be an
>>>> issue in the future.
>>>>
>>>> Victor
>>>>
>>>> On 18 Nov 2009, at 20:08, matt ingalls wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> is there *any* possibility of compiling csound framework as a
>>>>> Universal Binary?
>>>>> so that say, for instance, one could have QuteSound and MacCsound
>>>>> running on the same intel mac :)
>>>>>
>>>>> (btw, on 2 separate occassions i tried unsuccessfully to get a
>>>>> localized version of csound framework that would be inside the
>>>>> MacCsound bundle, using the install_name_tool and o_name tools --
>>>>> but
>>>>> the nest of connections among the libraries were too complicated or
>>>>> something - i never got it to work)
>>>>>
>>>>> matt ingalls
>>>>> matt@sonomatics.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports
>>>>> 2008
>>>>> 30-Day
>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment -
>>>>> and
>>>>> focus on
>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
>>>> 30-Day
>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>>>> focus on
>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> matt ingalls
>>> development@gvox.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
>>> 30-Day
>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>>> focus on
>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> 30-Day
>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>> focus on
>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
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>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>
>
>
> matt ingalls
> matt@sonomatics.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
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>



-- 


Andrés

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The iPhone uses the ARM processor, not an Intel process nor a PowerPC processor.

The ARM is the most widely used 32 bit processor in the world, because
it is used in devices not just computers.

Regards,
Mike

On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Victor Lazzarini
 wrote:
> Is there a runtime in the iPhone for Intel binaries? Or do you compile
> it again
> for the platform? I guess that would mean having to put together a
> completely
> new project from the sources.
>
> Victor
> On 18 Nov 2009, at 20:40, matt ingalls wrote:
>
>> thanks Victor.
>>
>> i agree that it maybe not worth it :)
>> ( i was actually about ready to retire MacCsound entirely- except
>> QuteSound still does not seem as good in real-time and GUI response --
>> even compared to MacCsound running in Rosetta)
>>
>> i am willing to look into UB compile.
>> my apologies for being out of touch, but is there some kind of
>> document listing what 3rd-party libraries are being used,  what
>> libraries are absolutely required, etc?
>>
>> i also ask about this because i would be interested in getting csound
>> running on an iPhone -- has anyone tried this yet?  as far as i
>> understand iPhone apps can't use dynamic frameworks/libraries and i
>> was wondering if it would be possible to get all the 3rd party
>> libraries statically linked. (i assume this will violate some of the
>> GPL licenses?)
>>
>> -m
>>
>> On Nov 18, 2009, at 12:25 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>
>>> While it might be possible to build a UB framework, there will be a
>>> lot of complication because of the dependencies that would have to
>>> themselves be UB. I thought about it, but I thought it was always
>>> simpler to build separate binaries. The main thing about the current
>>> state of things is that I spent a good time testing, fixing and
>>> perfecting things, with the help of the community. My fear is that an
>>> attempt at a UB would break things and take too long to get right.
>>> But
>>> if anyone fancy a challenge, please be my guest.
>>>
>>> I think at this point, it might not be worth our while for too long.
>>> Apple is phasing out support for PPC, so I guess it would not be an
>>> issue in the future.
>>>
>>> Victor
>>>
>>> On 18 Nov 2009, at 20:08, matt ingalls wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> is there *any* possibility of compiling csound framework as a
>>>> Universal Binary?
>>>> so that say, for instance, one could have QuteSound and MacCsound
>>>> running on the same intel mac :)
>>>>
>>>> (btw, on 2 separate occassions i tried unsuccessfully to get a
>>>> localized version of csound framework that would be inside the
>>>> MacCsound bundle, using the install_name_tool and o_name tools --
>>>> but
>>>> the nest of connections among the libraries were too complicated or
>>>> something - i never got it to work)
>>>>
>>>> matt ingalls
>>>> matt@sonomatics.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
>>>> 30-Day
>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>>>> focus on
>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>> 30-Day
>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>>> focus on
>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>>
>>
>> matt ingalls
>> development@gvox.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> 30-Day
>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>> focus on
>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
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>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>
>
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-- 
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com

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I know that iPhone uses ARM etc. What I am asking is if there is an  
interpreter for Intel binaries in the OS because from Matt's post it  
is not possible to tell how he wants to go about building a Csound  
iPhone app.

Victor

On 19 Nov 2009, at 20:23, Michael Gogins wrote:

> The iPhone uses the ARM processor, not an Intel process nor a  
> PowerPC processor.
>
> The ARM is the most widely used 32 bit processor in the world, because
> it is used in devices not just computers.
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Victor Lazzarini
>  wrote:
>> Is there a runtime in the iPhone for Intel binaries? Or do you  
>> compile
>> it again
>> for the platform? I guess that would mean having to put together a
>> completely
>> new project from the sources.
>>
>> Victor
>> On 18 Nov 2009, at 20:40, matt ingalls wrote:
>>
>>> thanks Victor.
>>>
>>> i agree that it maybe not worth it :)
>>> ( i was actually about ready to retire MacCsound entirely- except
>>> QuteSound still does not seem as good in real-time and GUI  
>>> response --
>>> even compared to MacCsound running in Rosetta)
>>>
>>> i am willing to look into UB compile.
>>> my apologies for being out of touch, but is there some kind of
>>> document listing what 3rd-party libraries are being used,  what
>>> libraries are absolutely required, etc?
>>>
>>> i also ask about this because i would be interested in getting  
>>> csound
>>> running on an iPhone -- has anyone tried this yet?  as far as i
>>> understand iPhone apps can't use dynamic frameworks/libraries and i
>>> was wondering if it would be possible to get all the 3rd party
>>> libraries statically linked. (i assume this will violate some of the
>>> GPL licenses?)
>>>
>>> -m
>>>
>>> On Nov 18, 2009, at 12:25 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>>
>>>> While it might be possible to build a UB framework, there will be a
>>>> lot of complication because of the dependencies that would have to
>>>> themselves be UB. I thought about it, but I thought it was always
>>>> simpler to build separate binaries. The main thing about the  
>>>> current
>>>> state of things is that I spent a good time testing, fixing and
>>>> perfecting things, with the help of the community. My fear is  
>>>> that an
>>>> attempt at a UB would break things and take too long to get right.
>>>> But
>>>> if anyone fancy a challenge, please be my guest.
>>>>
>>>> I think at this point, it might not be worth our while for too  
>>>> long.
>>>> Apple is phasing out support for PPC, so I guess it would not be an
>>>> issue in the future.
>>>>
>>>> Victor
>>>>
>>>> On 18 Nov 2009, at 20:08, matt ingalls wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> is there *any* possibility of compiling csound framework as a
>>>>> Universal Binary?
>>>>> so that say, for instance, one could have QuteSound and MacCsound
>>>>> running on the same intel mac :)
>>>>>
>>>>> (btw, on 2 separate occassions i tried unsuccessfully to get a
>>>>> localized version of csound framework that would be inside the
>>>>> MacCsound bundle, using the install_name_tool and o_name tools --
>>>>> but
>>>>> the nest of connections among the libraries were too complicated  
>>>>> or
>>>>> something - i never got it to work)
>>>>>
>>>>> matt ingalls
>>>>> matt@sonomatics.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports  
>>>>> 2008
>>>>> 30-Day
>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment -  
>>>>> and
>>>>> focus on
>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new  
>>>>> with
>>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports  
>>>> 2008
>>>> 30-Day
>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment -  
>>>> and
>>>> focus on
>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
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>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> matt ingalls
>>> development@gvox.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
>>> 30-Day
>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>>> focus on
>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> 2008 30-Day
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>> and focus on
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>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Michael Gogins
> Irreducible Productions
> http://www.michael-gogins.com
> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> focus on
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel


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If there were an emulator, I would think it would run too slowly for csound. I will check.

Mkg

On Nov 19, 2009 3:34 PM, "Victor Lazzarini" <Victor.Lazzarini@nuim.ie> wrote:

I know that iPhone uses ARM etc. What I am asking is if there is an
interpreter for Intel binaries in the OS because from Matt's post it
is not possible to tell how he wants to go about building a Csound
iPhone app.

Victor

On 19 Nov 2009, at 20:23, Michael Gogins wrote: > The iPhone uses the ARM processor, not an Intel ...

thanks Andrés for you note.  i definitely was not trying to accuse you of doing anything inappropriate!  if you could change the wording and add a link to MacCsound, i would be most appreciative.  i did just lose my job - plus having some midlife crisis issues so seeing "replace" just rubbed me the wrong way.
thanks,
-m

 
On Nov 19, 2009, at 12:21 PM, Andres Cabrera wrote:

> Hi Matt,
> 
> I am very sorry you feel this way. I never intended to offend you, and
> I will take this out this weekend when I get the time, what I meant by
> drop in replacement is not saying you must get rid of MacCsound and
> use QuteCsound instead, but rather, if the platform you are on does
> not run MacCsound and you have MacCsound files or want MacCsound
> functionality you can use these files and have this functionality with
> QuteCsound. I never imagined this could be offensive and I apologize.
> What I was after when I wrote QuteCsound was not compete with
> MacCsound but rather have something like MacCsound for other platforms
> (I always wanted MacCsound, but never had a Mac). That is why it is so
> strongly based on it. I still recognize MacCsound as very innovative,
> while QuteCsound is in many ways just playing catchup, albeit offering
> functionality that was previously unavailable on other platforms.
> I would very much welcome your help in improving QuteCsound's performance.
> 
> Cheers,
> Andrés
> 
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 6:09 PM, matt ingalls  wrote:
>> i did put a lot of work into MacCsound and if it still has some
>> benefit over the others, i think it would be good to keep it on life
>> support as long as needed.   it certainly would be pointless to port
>> it this point.
>> 
>>  i certainly am willing to help out with QuteCsound if i can -- if
>> there is any code from MacCsound to be recycled i would be happy to
>> add it in --  although i do have some other csound host projects i
>> want to work on..  and --  i have to admit, it is a bit hurtful to
>> have QuteCound marketed as "a drop in replacement for MacCsound"
>> instead of something like "fully compatible with MacCsound files".  it
>> feels more like competition than collaboration (no one ever directly
>> asked me to be part of this as far as i know), but perfectly
>> understandable, plus i have been out of the loop and off the email
>> lists for a while...
>> 
>> -m
>> 
>> On Nov 19, 2009, at 9:24 AM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>> 
>>> A suggestion: why don't you collaborate in QuteCsound to make it
>>> better, your expertise would surely be appreciated. While I think
>>> MacCsound is a great program, it is a shame it's locked into a closed-
>>> source GUI toolkit.
>>> 
>>> I guess the main difference in performance is probably due to the IO
>>> handling. If I remember it, you have your own code on OSX that puts
>>> the calls to performKsmps() etc in the CoreAudio callback. That would
>>> make it tighter than using PortAudio asynchronously on top of
>>> CoreAudio.
>>> 
>>> Victor
>>> 
>>> On 18 Nov 2009, at 20:40, matt ingalls wrote:
>>> 
>>>> thanks Victor.
>>>> 
>>>> i agree that it maybe not worth it :)
>>>> ( i was actually about ready to retire MacCsound entirely- except
>>>> QuteSound still does not seem as good in real-time and GUI response
>>>> --
>>>> even compared to MacCsound running in Rosetta)
>>>> 
>>>> i am willing to look into UB compile.
>>>> my apologies for being out of touch, but is there some kind of
>>>> document listing what 3rd-party libraries are being used,  what
>>>> libraries are absolutely required, etc?
>>>> 
>>>> i also ask about this because i would be interested in getting csound
>>>> running on an iPhone -- has anyone tried this yet?  as far as i
>>>> understand iPhone apps can't use dynamic frameworks/libraries and i
>>>> was wondering if it would be possible to get all the 3rd party
>>>> libraries statically linked. (i assume this will violate some of the
>>>> GPL licenses?)
>>>> 
>>>> -m
>>>> 
>>>> On Nov 18, 2009, at 12:25 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> While it might be possible to build a UB framework, there will be a
>>>>> lot of complication because of the dependencies that would have to
>>>>> themselves be UB. I thought about it, but I thought it was always
>>>>> simpler to build separate binaries. The main thing about the current
>>>>> state of things is that I spent a good time testing, fixing and
>>>>> perfecting things, with the help of the community. My fear is that
>>>>> an
>>>>> attempt at a UB would break things and take too long to get right.
>>>>> But
>>>>> if anyone fancy a challenge, please be my guest.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think at this point, it might not be worth our while for too long.
>>>>> Apple is phasing out support for PPC, so I guess it would not be an
>>>>> issue in the future.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Victor
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 18 Nov 2009, at 20:08, matt ingalls wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> is there *any* possibility of compiling csound framework as a
>>>>>> Universal Binary?
>>>>>> so that say, for instance, one could have QuteSound and MacCsound
>>>>>> running on the same intel mac :)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> (btw, on 2 separate occassions i tried unsuccessfully to get a
>>>>>> localized version of csound framework that would be inside the
>>>>>> MacCsound bundle, using the install_name_tool and o_name tools --
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> the nest of connections among the libraries were too complicated or
>>>>>> something - i never got it to work)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> matt ingalls
>>>>>> matt@sonomatics.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports
>>>>>> 2008
>>>>>> 30-Day
>>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment -
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> focus on
>>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
>>>>> 30-Day
>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>>>>> focus on
>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> matt ingalls
>>>> development@gvox.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
>>>> 30-Day
>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>>>> focus on
>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
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>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>> 30-Day
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>>> focus on
>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
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>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> matt ingalls
>> matt@sonomatics.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> Andrés
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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matt ingalls
matt@sonomatics.com




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yuck.  there's not a way this can be handled in the framework structure, with separate folders for each architecture or something?


On Nov 19, 2009, at 12:09 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:

> You'll probably need to solve the problem of plugins, they will all  
> have to be UB and
> their dependencies too. For instance, liblo will need to be made UB  
> for libosc to be made
> UB so that Csound can have OSC opcodes.
> 
> Victor
> 
> 
> On 18 Nov 2009, at 20:40, matt ingalls wrote:
> 
>> thanks Victor.
>> 
>> i agree that it maybe not worth it :)
>> ( i was actually about ready to retire MacCsound entirely- except
>> QuteSound still does not seem as good in real-time and GUI response --
>> even compared to MacCsound running in Rosetta)
>> 
>> i am willing to look into UB compile.
>> my apologies for being out of touch, but is there some kind of
>> document listing what 3rd-party libraries are being used,  what
>> libraries are absolutely required, etc?
>> 
>> i also ask about this because i would be interested in getting csound
>> running on an iPhone -- has anyone tried this yet?  as far as i
>> understand iPhone apps can't use dynamic frameworks/libraries and i
>> was wondering if it would be possible to get all the 3rd party
>> libraries statically linked. (i assume this will violate some of the
>> GPL licenses?)
>> 
>> -m
>> 
>> On Nov 18, 2009, at 12:25 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>> 
>>> While it might be possible to build a UB framework, there will be a
>>> lot of complication because of the dependencies that would have to
>>> themselves be UB. I thought about it, but I thought it was always
>>> simpler to build separate binaries. The main thing about the current
>>> state of things is that I spent a good time testing, fixing and
>>> perfecting things, with the help of the community. My fear is that an
>>> attempt at a UB would break things and take too long to get right.  
>>> But
>>> if anyone fancy a challenge, please be my guest.
>>> 
>>> I think at this point, it might not be worth our while for too long.
>>> Apple is phasing out support for PPC, so I guess it would not be an
>>> issue in the future.
>>> 
>>> Victor
>>> 
>>> On 18 Nov 2009, at 20:08, matt ingalls wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> is there *any* possibility of compiling csound framework as a
>>>> Universal Binary?
>>>> so that say, for instance, one could have QuteSound and MacCsound
>>>> running on the same intel mac :)
>>>> 
>>>> (btw, on 2 separate occassions i tried unsuccessfully to get a
>>>> localized version of csound framework that would be inside the
>>>> MacCsound bundle, using the install_name_tool and o_name tools --  
>>>> but
>>>> the nest of connections among the libraries were too complicated or
>>>> something - i never got it to work)
>>>> 
>>>> matt ingalls
>>>> matt@sonomatics.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
>>>> 30-Day
>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>>>> focus on
>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>> 30-Day
>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>>> focus on
>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> matt ingalls
>> development@gvox.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> 30-Day
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>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
> 
> 
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matt ingalls
matt@sonomatics.com




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>  I guess that would mean having to put together a  
> completely
> new project from the sources.

i would assume so. 
but this would be the case for any new platform, correct?

can csound be compiled and work without any of the 3rd party libraries?



matt ingalls
matt@sonomatics.com




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The Android platform is more suitable. It is basically Linux with a
Java superstructure that includes various event handling and user
interface patterns. You can write for the Android in various
languages.

I admire the actual machinery, but I cannot say I like Apple either
for business or for software.

Regards,
Mike



On 11/19/09, matt ingalls  wrote:
> thanks Andrés for you note.  i definitely was not trying to accuse you of
> doing anything inappropriate!  if you could change the wording and add a
> link to MacCsound, i would be most appreciative.  i did just lose my job -
> plus having some midlife crisis issues so seeing "replace" just rubbed me
> the wrong way.
> thanks,
> -m
>
>
> On Nov 19, 2009, at 12:21 PM, Andres Cabrera wrote:
>
>> Hi Matt,
>>
>> I am very sorry you feel this way. I never intended to offend you, and
>> I will take this out this weekend when I get the time, what I meant by
>> drop in replacement is not saying you must get rid of MacCsound and
>> use QuteCsound instead, but rather, if the platform you are on does
>> not run MacCsound and you have MacCsound files or want MacCsound
>> functionality you can use these files and have this functionality with
>> QuteCsound. I never imagined this could be offensive and I apologize.
>> What I was after when I wrote QuteCsound was not compete with
>> MacCsound but rather have something like MacCsound for other platforms
>> (I always wanted MacCsound, but never had a Mac). That is why it is so
>> strongly based on it. I still recognize MacCsound as very innovative,
>> while QuteCsound is in many ways just playing catchup, albeit offering
>> functionality that was previously unavailable on other platforms.
>> I would very much welcome your help in improving QuteCsound's performance.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Andrés
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 6:09 PM, matt ingalls  wrote:
>>> i did put a lot of work into MacCsound and if it still has some
>>> benefit over the others, i think it would be good to keep it on life
>>> support as long as needed.   it certainly would be pointless to port
>>> it this point.
>>>
>>>  i certainly am willing to help out with QuteCsound if i can -- if
>>> there is any code from MacCsound to be recycled i would be happy to
>>> add it in --  although i do have some other csound host projects i
>>> want to work on..  and --  i have to admit, it is a bit hurtful to
>>> have QuteCound marketed as "a drop in replacement for MacCsound"
>>> instead of something like "fully compatible with MacCsound files".  it
>>> feels more like competition than collaboration (no one ever directly
>>> asked me to be part of this as far as i know), but perfectly
>>> understandable, plus i have been out of the loop and off the email
>>> lists for a while...
>>>
>>> -m
>>>
>>> On Nov 19, 2009, at 9:24 AM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>>
>>>> A suggestion: why don't you collaborate in QuteCsound to make it
>>>> better, your expertise would surely be appreciated. While I think
>>>> MacCsound is a great program, it is a shame it's locked into a closed-
>>>> source GUI toolkit.
>>>>
>>>> I guess the main difference in performance is probably due to the IO
>>>> handling. If I remember it, you have your own code on OSX that puts
>>>> the calls to performKsmps() etc in the CoreAudio callback. That would
>>>> make it tighter than using PortAudio asynchronously on top of
>>>> CoreAudio.
>>>>
>>>> Victor
>>>>
>>>> On 18 Nov 2009, at 20:40, matt ingalls wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> thanks Victor.
>>>>>
>>>>> i agree that it maybe not worth it :)
>>>>> ( i was actually about ready to retire MacCsound entirely- except
>>>>> QuteSound still does not seem as good in real-time and GUI response
>>>>> --
>>>>> even compared to MacCsound running in Rosetta)
>>>>>
>>>>> i am willing to look into UB compile.
>>>>> my apologies for being out of touch, but is there some kind of
>>>>> document listing what 3rd-party libraries are being used,  what
>>>>> libraries are absolutely required, etc?
>>>>>
>>>>> i also ask about this because i would be interested in getting csound
>>>>> running on an iPhone -- has anyone tried this yet?  as far as i
>>>>> understand iPhone apps can't use dynamic frameworks/libraries and i
>>>>> was wondering if it would be possible to get all the 3rd party
>>>>> libraries statically linked. (i assume this will violate some of the
>>>>> GPL licenses?)
>>>>>
>>>>> -m
>>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 18, 2009, at 12:25 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> While it might be possible to build a UB framework, there will be a
>>>>>> lot of complication because of the dependencies that would have to
>>>>>> themselves be UB. I thought about it, but I thought it was always
>>>>>> simpler to build separate binaries. The main thing about the current
>>>>>> state of things is that I spent a good time testing, fixing and
>>>>>> perfecting things, with the help of the community. My fear is that
>>>>>> an
>>>>>> attempt at a UB would break things and take too long to get right.
>>>>>> But
>>>>>> if anyone fancy a challenge, please be my guest.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think at this point, it might not be worth our while for too long.
>>>>>> Apple is phasing out support for PPC, so I guess it would not be an
>>>>>> issue in the future.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Victor
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 18 Nov 2009, at 20:08, matt ingalls wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> is there *any* possibility of compiling csound framework as a
>>>>>>> Universal Binary?
>>>>>>> so that say, for instance, one could have QuteSound and MacCsound
>>>>>>> running on the same intel mac :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (btw, on 2 separate occassions i tried unsuccessfully to get a
>>>>>>> localized version of csound framework that would be inside the
>>>>>>> MacCsound bundle, using the install_name_tool and o_name tools --
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> the nest of connections among the libraries were too complicated or
>>>>>>> something - i never got it to work)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> matt ingalls
>>>>>>> matt@sonomatics.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports
>>>>>>> 2008
>>>>>>> 30-Day
>>>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment -
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> focus on
>>>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
>>>>>> 30-Day
>>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>>>>>> focus on
>>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> matt ingalls
>>>>> development@gvox.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
>>>>> 30-Day
>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>>>>> focus on
>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
>>>> 30-Day
>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>>>> focus on
>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> matt ingalls
>>> matt@sonomatics.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
>>> 30-Day
>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>>> focus on
>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> Andrés
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
>> 30-Day
>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus
>> on
>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
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>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>
>
>
> matt ingalls
> matt@sonomatics.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus
> on
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-- 
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Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com

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Hi Matt,

Don't worry. And I hope you get your things sorted soon. I'll change
the wording and add a link like you suggest.

Cheers,
Andrés

On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 9:00 PM, matt ingalls  wrote:
> thanks Andrés for you note.  i definitely was not trying to accuse you of doing anything inappropriate!  if you could change the wording and add a link to MacCsound, i would be most appreciative.  i did just lose my job - plus having some midlife crisis issues so seeing "replace" just rubbed me the wrong way.
> thanks,
> -m
>
>
> On Nov 19, 2009, at 12:21 PM, Andres Cabrera wrote:
>
>> Hi Matt,
>>
>> I am very sorry you feel this way. I never intended to offend you, and
>> I will take this out this weekend when I get the time, what I meant by
>> drop in replacement is not saying you must get rid of MacCsound and
>> use QuteCsound instead, but rather, if the platform you are on does
>> not run MacCsound and you have MacCsound files or want MacCsound
>> functionality you can use these files and have this functionality with
>> QuteCsound. I never imagined this could be offensive and I apologize.
>> What I was after when I wrote QuteCsound was not compete with
>> MacCsound but rather have something like MacCsound for other platforms
>> (I always wanted MacCsound, but never had a Mac). That is why it is so
>> strongly based on it. I still recognize MacCsound as very innovative,
>> while QuteCsound is in many ways just playing catchup, albeit offering
>> functionality that was previously unavailable on other platforms.
>> I would very much welcome your help in improving QuteCsound's performance.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Andrés
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 6:09 PM, matt ingalls  wrote:
>>> i did put a lot of work into MacCsound and if it still has some
>>> benefit over the others, i think it would be good to keep it on life
>>> support as long as needed.   it certainly would be pointless to port
>>> it this point.
>>>
>>>  i certainly am willing to help out with QuteCsound if i can -- if
>>> there is any code from MacCsound to be recycled i would be happy to
>>> add it in --  although i do have some other csound host projects i
>>> want to work on..  and --  i have to admit, it is a bit hurtful to
>>> have QuteCound marketed as "a drop in replacement for MacCsound"
>>> instead of something like "fully compatible with MacCsound files".  it
>>> feels more like competition than collaboration (no one ever directly
>>> asked me to be part of this as far as i know), but perfectly
>>> understandable, plus i have been out of the loop and off the email
>>> lists for a while...
>>>
>>> -m
>>>
>>> On Nov 19, 2009, at 9:24 AM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>>
>>>> A suggestion: why don't you collaborate in QuteCsound to make it
>>>> better, your expertise would surely be appreciated. While I think
>>>> MacCsound is a great program, it is a shame it's locked into a closed-
>>>> source GUI toolkit.
>>>>
>>>> I guess the main difference in performance is probably due to the IO
>>>> handling. If I remember it, you have your own code on OSX that puts
>>>> the calls to performKsmps() etc in the CoreAudio callback. That would
>>>> make it tighter than using PortAudio asynchronously on top of
>>>> CoreAudio.
>>>>
>>>> Victor
>>>>
>>>> On 18 Nov 2009, at 20:40, matt ingalls wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> thanks Victor.
>>>>>
>>>>> i agree that it maybe not worth it :)
>>>>> ( i was actually about ready to retire MacCsound entirely- except
>>>>> QuteSound still does not seem as good in real-time and GUI response
>>>>> --
>>>>> even compared to MacCsound running in Rosetta)
>>>>>
>>>>> i am willing to look into UB compile.
>>>>> my apologies for being out of touch, but is there some kind of
>>>>> document listing what 3rd-party libraries are being used,  what
>>>>> libraries are absolutely required, etc?
>>>>>
>>>>> i also ask about this because i would be interested in getting csound
>>>>> running on an iPhone -- has anyone tried this yet?  as far as i
>>>>> understand iPhone apps can't use dynamic frameworks/libraries and i
>>>>> was wondering if it would be possible to get all the 3rd party
>>>>> libraries statically linked. (i assume this will violate some of the
>>>>> GPL licenses?)
>>>>>
>>>>> -m
>>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 18, 2009, at 12:25 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> While it might be possible to build a UB framework, there will be a
>>>>>> lot of complication because of the dependencies that would have to
>>>>>> themselves be UB. I thought about it, but I thought it was always
>>>>>> simpler to build separate binaries. The main thing about the current
>>>>>> state of things is that I spent a good time testing, fixing and
>>>>>> perfecting things, with the help of the community. My fear is that
>>>>>> an
>>>>>> attempt at a UB would break things and take too long to get right.
>>>>>> But
>>>>>> if anyone fancy a challenge, please be my guest.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think at this point, it might not be worth our while for too long.
>>>>>> Apple is phasing out support for PPC, so I guess it would not be an
>>>>>> issue in the future.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Victor
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 18 Nov 2009, at 20:08, matt ingalls wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> is there *any* possibility of compiling csound framework as a
>>>>>>> Universal Binary?
>>>>>>> so that say, for instance, one could have QuteSound and MacCsound
>>>>>>> running on the same intel mac :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (btw, on 2 separate occassions i tried unsuccessfully to get a
>>>>>>> localized version of csound framework that would be inside the
>>>>>>> MacCsound bundle, using the install_name_tool and o_name tools --
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> the nest of connections among the libraries were too complicated or
>>>>>>> something - i never got it to work)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> matt ingalls
>>>>>>> matt@sonomatics.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports
>>>>>>> 2008
>>>>>>> 30-Day
>>>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment -
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> focus on
>>>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
>>>>>> 30-Day
>>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>>>>>> focus on
>>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> matt ingalls
>>>>> development@gvox.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
>>>>> 30-Day
>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>>>>> focus on
>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
>>>> 30-Day
>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>>>> focus on
>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> matt ingalls
>>> matt@sonomatics.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> Andrés
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>
>
>
> matt ingalls
> matt@sonomatics.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>



-- 


Andrés

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Not without libsndfile.

On 19 Nov 2009, at 21:31, matt ingalls wrote:

>> I guess that would mean having to put together a
>> completely
>> new project from the sources.
>
> i would assume so.
> but this would be the case for any new platform, correct?
>
> can csound be compiled and work without any of the 3rd party  
> libraries?
>
>
>
> matt ingalls
> matt@sonomatics.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> 30-Day
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> focus on
> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel


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Not sure of anything simple right now. You can try setting different  
OPCODEDIRs. But still there will be a need to supply UB dependencies.

Victor
On 19 Nov 2009, at 21:17, matt ingalls wrote:

> yuck.  there's not a way this can be handled in the framework  
> structure, with separate folders for each architecture or something?
>
>
> On Nov 19, 2009, at 12:09 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>
>> You'll probably need to solve the problem of plugins, they will all
>> have to be UB and
>> their dependencies too. For instance, liblo will need to be made UB
>> for libosc to be made
>> UB so that Csound can have OSC opcodes.
>>
>> Victor
>>
>>
>> On 18 Nov 2009, at 20:40, matt ingalls wrote:
>>
>>> thanks Victor.
>>>
>>> i agree that it maybe not worth it :)
>>> ( i was actually about ready to retire MacCsound entirely- except
>>> QuteSound still does not seem as good in real-time and GUI  
>>> response --
>>> even compared to MacCsound running in Rosetta)
>>>
>>> i am willing to look into UB compile.
>>> my apologies for being out of touch, but is there some kind of
>>> document listing what 3rd-party libraries are being used,  what
>>> libraries are absolutely required, etc?
>>>
>>> i also ask about this because i would be interested in getting  
>>> csound
>>> running on an iPhone -- has anyone tried this yet?  as far as i
>>> understand iPhone apps can't use dynamic frameworks/libraries and i
>>> was wondering if it would be possible to get all the 3rd party
>>> libraries statically linked. (i assume this will violate some of the
>>> GPL licenses?)
>>>
>>> -m
>>>
>>> On Nov 18, 2009, at 12:25 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>>
>>>> While it might be possible to build a UB framework, there will be a
>>>> lot of complication because of the dependencies that would have to
>>>> themselves be UB. I thought about it, but I thought it was always
>>>> simpler to build separate binaries. The main thing about the  
>>>> current
>>>> state of things is that I spent a good time testing, fixing and
>>>> perfecting things, with the help of the community. My fear is  
>>>> that an
>>>> attempt at a UB would break things and take too long to get right.
>>>> But
>>>> if anyone fancy a challenge, please be my guest.
>>>>
>>>> I think at this point, it might not be worth our while for too  
>>>> long.
>>>> Apple is phasing out support for PPC, so I guess it would not be an
>>>> issue in the future.
>>>>
>>>> Victor
>>>>
>>>> On 18 Nov 2009, at 20:08, matt ingalls wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> is there *any* possibility of compiling csound framework as a
>>>>> Universal Binary?
>>>>> so that say, for instance, one could have QuteSound and MacCsound
>>>>> running on the same intel mac :)
>>>>>
>>>>> (btw, on 2 separate occassions i tried unsuccessfully to get a
>>>>> localized version of csound framework that would be inside the
>>>>> MacCsound bundle, using the install_name_tool and o_name tools --
>>>>> but
>>>>> the nest of connections among the libraries were too complicated  
>>>>> or
>>>>> something - i never got it to work)
>>>>>
>>>>> matt ingalls
>>>>> matt@sonomatics.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports  
>>>>> 2008
>>>>> 30-Day
>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment -  
>>>>> and
>>>>> focus on
>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new  
>>>>> with
>>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports  
>>>> 2008
>>>> 30-Day
>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment -  
>>>> and
>>>> focus on
>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> matt ingalls
>>> development@gvox.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
>>> 30-Day
>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>>> focus on
>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports  
>> 2008 30-Day
>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment -  
>> and focus on
>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>
>
>
> matt ingalls
> matt@sonomatics.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008  
> 30-Day
> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and  
> focus on
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Out of curiosity is libsndfile only needed for file writing opcodes
like diskin/soundin etc?

2009/11/19 Victor Lazzarini :
> Not sure of anything simple right now. You can try setting different
> OPCODEDIRs. But still there will be a need to supply UB dependencies.
>
> Victor
> On 19 Nov 2009, at 21:17, matt ingalls wrote:
>
>> yuck.  there's not a way this can be handled in the framework
>> structure, with separate folders for each architecture or something?
>>
>>
>> On Nov 19, 2009, at 12:09 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>
>>> You'll probably need to solve the problem of plugins, they will all
>>> have to be UB and
>>> their dependencies too. For instance, liblo will need to be made UB
>>> for libosc to be made
>>> UB so that Csound can have OSC opcodes.
>>>
>>> Victor
>>>
>>>
>>> On 18 Nov 2009, at 20:40, matt ingalls wrote:
>>>
>>>> thanks Victor.
>>>>
>>>> i agree that it maybe not worth it :)
>>>> ( i was actually about ready to retire MacCsound entirely- except
>>>> QuteSound still does not seem as good in real-time and GUI
>>>> response --
>>>> even compared to MacCsound running in Rosetta)
>>>>
>>>> i am willing to look into UB compile.
>>>> my apologies for being out of touch, but is there some kind of
>>>> document listing what 3rd-party libraries are being used,  what
>>>> libraries are absolutely required, etc?
>>>>
>>>> i also ask about this because i would be interested in getting
>>>> csound
>>>> running on an iPhone -- has anyone tried this yet?  as far as i
>>>> understand iPhone apps can't use dynamic frameworks/libraries and i
>>>> was wondering if it would be possible to get all the 3rd party
>>>> libraries statically linked. (i assume this will violate some of the
>>>> GPL licenses?)
>>>>
>>>> -m
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 18, 2009, at 12:25 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> While it might be possible to build a UB framework, there will be a
>>>>> lot of complication because of the dependencies that would have to
>>>>> themselves be UB. I thought about it, but I thought it was always
>>>>> simpler to build separate binaries. The main thing about the
>>>>> current
>>>>> state of things is that I spent a good time testing, fixing and
>>>>> perfecting things, with the help of the community. My fear is
>>>>> that an
>>>>> attempt at a UB would break things and take too long to get right.
>>>>> But
>>>>> if anyone fancy a challenge, please be my guest.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think at this point, it might not be worth our while for too
>>>>> long.
>>>>> Apple is phasing out support for PPC, so I guess it would not be an
>>>>> issue in the future.
>>>>>
>>>>> Victor
>>>>>
>>>>> On 18 Nov 2009, at 20:08, matt ingalls wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> is there *any* possibility of compiling csound framework as a
>>>>>> Universal Binary?
>>>>>> so that say, for instance, one could have QuteSound and MacCsound
>>>>>> running on the same intel mac :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (btw, on 2 separate occassions i tried unsuccessfully to get a
>>>>>> localized version of csound framework that would be inside the
>>>>>> MacCsound bundle, using the install_name_tool and o_name tools --
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> the nest of connections among the libraries were too complicated
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> something - i never got it to work)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> matt ingalls
>>>>>> matt@sonomatics.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports
>>>>>> 2008
>>>>>> 30-Day
>>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment -
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> focus on
>>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new
>>>>>> with
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>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>>> 2008
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>>>>> and
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>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> matt ingalls
>>>> development@gvox.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>
>>>
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>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>>
>>
>> matt ingalls
>> matt@sonomatics.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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For all soundfile writing and reading.
On 19 Nov 2009, at 22:21, Rory Walsh wrote:

> Out of curiosity is libsndfile only needed for file writing opcodes
> like diskin/soundin etc?
>
> 2009/11/19 Victor Lazzarini :
>> Not sure of anything simple right now. You can try setting different
>> OPCODEDIRs. But still there will be a need to supply UB dependencies.
>>
>> Victor
>> On 19 Nov 2009, at 21:17, matt ingalls wrote:
>>
>>> yuck.  there's not a way this can be handled in the framework
>>> structure, with separate folders for each architecture or something?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 19, 2009, at 12:09 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>>
>>>> You'll probably need to solve the problem of plugins, they will all
>>>> have to be UB and
>>>> their dependencies too. For instance, liblo will need to be made UB
>>>> for libosc to be made
>>>> UB so that Csound can have OSC opcodes.
>>>>
>>>> Victor
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 18 Nov 2009, at 20:40, matt ingalls wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> thanks Victor.
>>>>>
>>>>> i agree that it maybe not worth it :)
>>>>> ( i was actually about ready to retire MacCsound entirely- except
>>>>> QuteSound still does not seem as good in real-time and GUI
>>>>> response --
>>>>> even compared to MacCsound running in Rosetta)
>>>>>
>>>>> i am willing to look into UB compile.
>>>>> my apologies for being out of touch, but is there some kind of
>>>>> document listing what 3rd-party libraries are being used,  what
>>>>> libraries are absolutely required, etc?
>>>>>
>>>>> i also ask about this because i would be interested in getting
>>>>> csound
>>>>> running on an iPhone -- has anyone tried this yet?  as far as i
>>>>> understand iPhone apps can't use dynamic frameworks/libraries  
>>>>> and i
>>>>> was wondering if it would be possible to get all the 3rd party
>>>>> libraries statically linked. (i assume this will violate some of  
>>>>> the
>>>>> GPL licenses?)
>>>>>
>>>>> -m
>>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 18, 2009, at 12:25 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> While it might be possible to build a UB framework, there will  
>>>>>> be a
>>>>>> lot of complication because of the dependencies that would have  
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> themselves be UB. I thought about it, but I thought it was always
>>>>>> simpler to build separate binaries. The main thing about the
>>>>>> current
>>>>>> state of things is that I spent a good time testing, fixing and
>>>>>> perfecting things, with the help of the community. My fear is
>>>>>> that an
>>>>>> attempt at a UB would break things and take too long to get  
>>>>>> right.
>>>>>> But
>>>>>> if anyone fancy a challenge, please be my guest.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think at this point, it might not be worth our while for too
>>>>>> long.
>>>>>> Apple is phasing out support for PPC, so I guess it would not  
>>>>>> be an
>>>>>> issue in the future.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Victor
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 18 Nov 2009, at 20:08, matt ingalls wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> is there *any* possibility of compiling csound framework as a
>>>>>>> Universal Binary?
>>>>>>> so that say, for instance, one could have QuteSound and  
>>>>>>> MacCsound
>>>>>>> running on the same intel mac :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (btw, on 2 separate occassions i tried unsuccessfully to get a
>>>>>>> localized version of csound framework that would be inside the
>>>>>>> MacCsound bundle, using the install_name_tool and o_name tools  
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> the nest of connections among the libraries were too complicated
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> something - i never got it to work)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> matt ingalls
>>>>>>> matt@sonomatics.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports
>>>>>>> 2008
>>>>>>> 30-Day
>>>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment -
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> focus on
>>>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports
>>>>>> 2008
>>>>>> 30-Day
>>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment -
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> focus on
>>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new  
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> matt ingalls
>>>>> development@gvox.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports  
>>>>> 2008
>>>>> 30-Day
>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment -  
>>>>> and
>>>>> focus on
>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new  
>>>>> with
>>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>> 2008 30-Day
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>>>> and focus on
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>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> matt ingalls
>>> matt@sonomatics.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>> 30-Day
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>>> focus on
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>>
>>
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>
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......historical note; I still have an ARM Csound written by a
final-year student way back.  It had flowgraph input too.
==John ffitch

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But not realtime audio
==John ffitch
>>>>> "Victor" == Victor Lazzarini  writes:

 Victor> For all soundfile writing and reading.
 Victor> On 19 Nov 2009, at 22:21, Rory Walsh wrote:

 >> Out of curiosity is libsndfile only needed for file writing opcodes
 >> like diskin/soundin etc?

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john ffitch wrote:
> ......historical note; I still have an ARM Csound written by a
> final-year student way back.  It had flowgraph input too.
> ==John ffitch

Csound will happily build on ARM. http://packages.debian.org/sid/csound 
has the full arch list we (debian) build on at the bottom of the page.

-- 
Saludos,
Felipe Sateler

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Then it would seem to be a question of writing an "app" that uses the
Csound API, no?

My phone, the MyTouch 3G, has a Lua scripting environment that can
create apps, so perhaps just building the required parts of Csound for
ARM and getting it on the phone would do the job, plus writing a
little bit of Lua. Might need different audio drivers, I will check
into that.

The phone is certainly enough of a computer to do real Csound stuff.
It's equivalent to desktops from 10 to 12 years ago, except it has
more memory and storage.

The Lua scripting environment could be used to do serious algorithmic
composition on the phone. That is, if typing with your thumbs doesn't
drive you crazy, along with only seeing a few lines of text at a time.

Of course Java would also do the job, but then I think you need an
external development environment. With Lua, once Csound is installed,
the whole kit would be as self-contained as with any other computer.

Regards,
Mike

On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Felipe Sateler  wrote:
> john ffitch wrote:
>> ......historical note; I still have an ARM Csound written by a
>> final-year student way back.  It had flowgraph input too.
>> ==John ffitch
>
> Csound will happily build on ARM. http://packages.debian.org/sid/csound
> has the full arch list we (debian) build on at the bottom of the page.
>
> --
> Saludos,
> Felipe Sateler
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
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-- 
Michael Gogins
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http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com

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Matt,

Welcome back.

Getting Csound running on the iPhone would be AMAZING.
Good luck with this project Matt.  Hopefulluy others will join with you
and help you on this.  I know that Richard Dobson has an iPod Touch :-}
Maybe he could help with this project too?

Also, I hope you can be a help with the QuteCsound development too.
Andres has come a long way with this frontEnd and it has many wonderful
features - such as View Code Graphs.  It also comes with some  
fantasticly
educational and inspiring examples and utilities (as did your  
MacCsound).

It has been a huge help in my teaching at Berklee to have a front-end  
that was
this intuitive, cross-platform compatible, and ran native on the mac.

Wishing you all the best and looking forward to speaking with you when  
I return from Moscow.

Rick

PS.  Tomorrow, I am teaching an all day seminar in Csound at the  
Moscow Conservatory and Therimin Center
I begin with some private work at 11am with the director - then  
another private session at 4pm with another
director - and then a more public masterClass at 6pm.

I was here for the week premiering my new baton, cello, k-bow piece at  
the Moscow Autumn Festival (yesterday)
It went very very well..... but has had me working 18-22 hour days - 7  
days a week - for the past 2 months.  (no exaggeration)

Back to life now....
Dr. Richard Boulanger  -  rboulanger@berklee.edu



On Nov 18, 2009, at 11:40 PM, matt ingalls wrote:

> thanks Victor.
>
> i agree that it maybe not worth it :)
> ( i was actually about ready to retire MacCsound entirely- except
> QuteSound still does not seem as good in real-time and GUI response --
> even compared to MacCsound running in Rosetta)
>
> i am willing to look into UB compile.
> my apologies for being out of touch, but is there some kind of
> document listing what 3rd-party libraries are being used,  what
> libraries are absolutely required, etc?
>
> i also ask about this because i would be interested in getting csound
> running on an iPhone -- has anyone tried this yet?  as far as i
> understand iPhone apps can't use dynamic frameworks/libraries and i
> was wondering if it would be possible to get all the 3rd party
> libraries statically linked. (i assume this will violate some of the
> GPL licenses?)
>
> -m
>
> On Nov 18, 2009, at 12:25 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>
>> While it might be possible to build a UB framework, there will be a
>> lot of complication because of the dependencies that would have to
>> themselves be UB. I thought about it, but I thought it was always
>> simpler to build separate binaries. The main thing about the current
>> state of things is that I spent a good time testing, fixing and
>> perfecting things, with the help of the community. My fear is that an
>> attempt at a UB would break things and take too long to get right.  
>> But
>> if anyone fancy a challenge, please be my guest.
>>
>> I think at this point, it might not be worth our while for too long.
>> Apple is phasing out support for PPC, so I guess it would not be an
>> issue in the future.
>>
>> Victor
>>
>> On 18 Nov 2009, at 20:08, matt ingalls wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> is there *any* possibility of compiling csound framework as a
>>> Universal Binary?
>>> so that say, for instance, one could have QuteSound and MacCsound
>>> running on the same intel mac :)
>>>
>>> (btw, on 2 separate occassions i tried unsuccessfully to get a
>>> localized version of csound framework that would be inside the
>>> MacCsound bundle, using the install_name_tool and o_name tools --  
>>> but
>>> the nest of connections among the libraries were too complicated or
>>> something - i never got it to work)
>>>
>>> matt ingalls
>>> matt@sonomatics.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
>>> 30-Day
>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>>> focus on
>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>
>
>
> matt ingalls
> development@gvox.com
>
>
>
>
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Michael Gogins wrote:
> Then it would seem to be a question of writing an "app" that uses the
> Csound API, no?

Well, qutecsound is also happily built in ARM and the rest: 
http://packages.debian.org/sid/qutecsound.

> 
> My phone, the MyTouch 3G, has a Lua scripting environment that can
> create apps, so perhaps just building the required parts of Csound for
> ARM and getting it on the phone would do the job, plus writing a
> little bit of Lua. Might need different audio drivers, I will check
> into that.

I figure the most problematic thing is if the phone is not linux based 
(or mac/windows). You may need to implement the OS-specific parts too.

> 
> The phone is certainly enough of a computer to do real Csound stuff.
> It's equivalent to desktops from 10 to 12 years ago, except it has
> more memory and storage.
> 
> The Lua scripting environment could be used to do serious algorithmic
> composition on the phone. That is, if typing with your thumbs doesn't
> drive you crazy, along with only seeing a few lines of text at a time.
> 
> Of course Java would also do the job, but then I think you need an
> external development environment. With Lua, once Csound is installed,
> the whole kit would be as self-contained as with any other computer.

Lua also has the advantage of not requiring a compiler, which might slow 
down the process a lot when working in the phone (I'm not sure how 
resource intensive is a java compiler).


-- 
Saludos,
Felipe Sateler

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The rjdj approach would probably work well. Afaik, users can't edit
patches using the phone. The patches are developed using a computer
and then sent to the phone. All patches are then controlled in real
time using the different input devices found on the phone. Writing
Csound code using one of those handsets would be a nightmare!

2009/11/22 Michael Gogins :
> Then it would seem to be a question of writing an "app" that uses the
> Csound API, no?
>
> My phone, the MyTouch 3G, has a Lua scripting environment that can
> create apps, so perhaps just building the required parts of Csound for
> ARM and getting it on the phone would do the job, plus writing a
> little bit of Lua. Might need different audio drivers, I will check
> into that.
>
> The phone is certainly enough of a computer to do real Csound stuff.
> It's equivalent to desktops from 10 to 12 years ago, except it has
> more memory and storage.
>
> The Lua scripting environment could be used to do serious algorithmic
> composition on the phone. That is, if typing with your thumbs doesn't
> drive you crazy, along with only seeing a few lines of text at a time.
>
> Of course Java would also do the job, but then I think you need an
> external development environment. With Lua, once Csound is installed,
> the whole kit would be as self-contained as with any other computer.
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
> On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Felipe Sateler  wrote:
>> john ffitch wrote:
>>> ......historical note; I still have an ARM Csound written by a
>>> final-year student way back.  It had flowgraph input too.
>>> ==John ffitch
>>
>> Csound will happily build on ARM. http://packages.debian.org/sid/csound
>> has the full arch list we (debian) build on at the bottom of the page.
>>
>> --
>> Saludos,
>> Felipe Sateler
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
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>> _______________________________________________
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>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Michael Gogins
> Irreducible Productions
> http://www.michael-gogins.com
> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>
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how hard do you think it would be to get csound to compile/run without libsndfile?
(in which cases, i guess all needed functionality would go through the API and 
  then in cases where the host is not supporting that it could at least run in realtime and
   quit gracefully whenever a sndfile function was needed?)

i think this would be good for other uses besides the iPhone too!
(real-time audio plugins, etc) and always good to be flexible for whenever the next 
best thing comes along...

btw for the time being,
i thought i would try to see if could at least compile libsndfile as a static iPhone library.
(remember, iPhone does not allow dynamic libs).
 i took a look at libsndfile configure/make files but it all is too daunting for me..

-m

On Nov 20, 2009, at 6:57 AM, john ffitch wrote:

> But not realtime audio
> ==John ffitch
>>>>>> "Victor" == Victor Lazzarini  writes:
> 
> Victor> For all soundfile writing and reading.
> Victor> On 19 Nov 2009, at 22:21, Rory Walsh wrote:
> 
>>> Out of curiosity is libsndfile only needed for file writing opcodes
>>> like diskin/soundin etc?





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I don't see any reason not to build csound with libsndfile. What you  
can do is add libsndfile src files to csound and build it into csound,  
if you need. But libsndfile can also be built and linked to statically.

On 23 Nov 2009, at 19:16, matt ingalls wrote:

> how hard do you think it would be to get csound to compile/run  
> without libsndfile?
> (in which cases, i guess all needed functionality would go through  
> the API and
>  then in cases where the host is not supporting that it could at  
> least run in realtime and
>   quit gracefully whenever a sndfile function was needed?)
>
> i think this would be good for other uses besides the iPhone too!
> (real-time audio plugins, etc) and always good to be flexible for  
> whenever the next
> best thing comes along...
>
> btw for the time being,
> i thought i would try to see if could at least compile libsndfile as  
> a static iPhone library.
> (remember, iPhone does not allow dynamic libs).
> i took a look at libsndfile configure/make files but it all is too  
> daunting for me..
>
> -m
>
> On Nov 20, 2009, at 6:57 AM, john ffitch wrote:
>
>> But not realtime audio
>> ==John ffitch
>>>>>>> "Victor" == Victor Lazzarini  writes:
>>
>> Victor> For all soundfile writing and reading.
>> Victor> On 19 Nov 2009, at 22:21, Rory Walsh wrote:
>>
>>>> Out of curiosity is libsndfile only needed for file writing opcodes
>>>> like diskin/soundin etc?
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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i thought if you used source files or static linked from other LGPL code, 
you then had to distribute the "modified" source ( i don't understand if that means just adding it into cvs or what? )???

at any rate, it still would be nice to have API functions to optionally bypass libsndfile.  for example, for better performance, host frontends might want to do their own soundfile buffering and threading -- or use different i/o routines ( OSX's AudioFileStream services, for example ).  and there is always the possibility that libsndfile doesn't compile on a certain system, or becomes unusable, unavailable, or undesirable for some reason..

On Nov 23, 2009, at 11:24 AM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:

> I don't see any reason not to build csound with libsndfile. What you  
> can do is add libsndfile src files to csound and build it into csound,  
> if you need. But libsndfile can also be built and linked to statically.
> 
> On 23 Nov 2009, at 19:16, matt ingalls wrote:
> 
>> how hard do you think it would be to get csound to compile/run  
>> without libsndfile?
>> (in which cases, i guess all needed functionality would go through  
>> the API and
>> then in cases where the host is not supporting that it could at  
>> least run in realtime and
>>  quit gracefully whenever a sndfile function was needed?)
>> 
>> i think this would be good for other uses besides the iPhone too!
>> (real-time audio plugins, etc) and always good to be flexible for  
>> whenever the next
>> best thing comes along...
>> 
>> btw for the time being,
>> i thought i would try to see if could at least compile libsndfile as  
>> a static iPhone library.
>> (remember, iPhone does not allow dynamic libs).
>> i took a look at libsndfile configure/make files but it all is too  
>> daunting for me..
>> 
>> -m
>> 
>> On Nov 20, 2009, at 6:57 AM, john ffitch wrote:
>> 
>>> But not realtime audio
>>> ==John ffitch
>>>>>>>> "Victor" == Victor Lazzarini  writes:
>>> 
>>> Victor> For all soundfile writing and reading.
>>> Victor> On 19 Nov 2009, at 22:21, Rory Walsh wrote:
>>> 
>>>>> Out of curiosity is libsndfile only needed for file writing opcodes
>>>>> like diskin/soundin etc?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
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> 
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matt ingalls
matt@sonomatics.com




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Why would we need to modify libsndfile sources? I'm only talking about
compiling and linking them. Static linkage is only a problem fo GPL
code linked with LGPL code. Both libsndfile and Csound are LGPL. So we
can definitely statically link libsndfile code with Csound.

But if we did have to modify libsndfile sources, which is certainly
possible, then yes, we would have to put them into Csound CVS (or
somewhere, maybe give the modifications back to Erik if he would host
them).

Regards,
Mike

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 2:52 PM, matt ingalls  wrote:
> i thought if you used source files or static linked from other LGPL code,
> you then had to distribute the "modified" source ( i don't understand if that means just adding it into cvs or what? )???
>
> at any rate, it still would be nice to have API functions to optionally bypass libsndfile.  for example, for better performance, host frontends might want to do their own soundfile buffering and threading -- or use different i/o routines ( OSX's AudioFileStream services, for example ).  and there is always the possibility that libsndfile doesn't compile on a certain system, or becomes unusable, unavailable, or undesirable for some reason..
>
> On Nov 23, 2009, at 11:24 AM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>
>> I don't see any reason not to build csound with libsndfile. What you
>> can do is add libsndfile src files to csound and build it into csound,
>> if you need. But libsndfile can also be built and linked to statically.
>>
>> On 23 Nov 2009, at 19:16, matt ingalls wrote:
>>
>>> how hard do you think it would be to get csound to compile/run
>>> without libsndfile?
>>> (in which cases, i guess all needed functionality would go through
>>> the API and
>>> then in cases where the host is not supporting that it could at
>>> least run in realtime and
>>>  quit gracefully whenever a sndfile function was needed?)
>>>
>>> i think this would be good for other uses besides the iPhone too!
>>> (real-time audio plugins, etc) and always good to be flexible for
>>> whenever the next
>>> best thing comes along...
>>>
>>> btw for the time being,
>>> i thought i would try to see if could at least compile libsndfile as
>>> a static iPhone library.
>>> (remember, iPhone does not allow dynamic libs).
>>> i took a look at libsndfile configure/make files but it all is too
>>> daunting for me..
>>>
>>> -m
>>>
>>> On Nov 20, 2009, at 6:57 AM, john ffitch wrote:
>>>
>>>> But not realtime audio
>>>> ==John ffitch
>>>>>>>>> "Victor" == Victor Lazzarini  writes:
>>>>
>>>> Victor> For all soundfile writing and reading.
>>>> Victor> On 19 Nov 2009, at 22:21, Rory Walsh wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Out of curiosity is libsndfile only needed for file writing opcodes
>>>>>> like diskin/soundin etc?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
>>> 30-Day
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>>> focus on
>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
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>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>>
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>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>
>
>
> matt ingalls
> matt@sonomatics.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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-- 
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http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com

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It can do it now. You can write the audio samples out as an ordinary
file (not using the out* opcodes). You would then have to supply the
soundfile header somehow. You could probably do this in Csound itself,
since the soundfile headers are simple and well known.

You could create libsndfile as a dylib though, I think.

If you want an all static, monolithic link you could just put every
single source file into makefile with one link line.

Regards,
Mike

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 2:16 PM, matt ingalls  wrote:
> how hard do you think it would be to get csound to compile/run without libsndfile?
> (in which cases, i guess all needed functionality would go through the API and
>  then in cases where the host is not supporting that it could at least run in realtime and
>   quit gracefully whenever a sndfile function was needed?)
>
> i think this would be good for other uses besides the iPhone too!
> (real-time audio plugins, etc) and always good to be flexible for whenever the next
> best thing comes along...
>
> btw for the time being,
> i thought i would try to see if could at least compile libsndfile as a static iPhone library.
> (remember, iPhone does not allow dynamic libs).
>  i took a look at libsndfile configure/make files but it all is too daunting for me..
>
> -m
>
> On Nov 20, 2009, at 6:57 AM, john ffitch wrote:
>
>> But not realtime audio
>> ==John ffitch
>>>>>>> "Victor" == Victor Lazzarini  writes:
>>
>> Victor> For all soundfile writing and reading.
>> Victor> On 19 Nov 2009, at 22:21, Rory Walsh wrote:
>>
>>>> Out of curiosity is libsndfile only needed for file writing opcodes
>>>> like diskin/soundin etc?
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>



-- 
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com

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In this case, I think it's OK to statically link compiled sources into
another app. The sources, if not modified, are of course publicly
available and as far as I can tell (but IAMNAL) that satisfies the
requirement.

Regards,
Mike

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 3:02 PM, matt ingalls  wrote:
> well i put "modified" in quotes, which i meant as in "derivative work"
> but wikipedia explains it better:
> Essentially, if it is a "work that uses the library", then it must be
> possible for the software to be linked with a newer version of the
> LGPL-covered program. The most commonly used method for doing so is to use
> "a suitable shared library mechanism for linking". Alternatively,
> a statically linked library is allowed if either source code or linkable
> object files are provided.
> On Nov 23, 2009, at 11:57 AM, Michael Gogins wrote:
>
> Why would we need to modify libsndfile sources? I'm only talking about
> compiling and linking them. Static linkage is only a problem fo GPL
> code linked with LGPL code. Both libsndfile and Csound are LGPL. So we
> can definitely statically link libsndfile code with Csound.
>
> But if we did have to modify libsndfile sources, which is certainly
> possible, then yes, we would have to put them into Csound CVS (or
> somewhere, maybe give the modifications back to Erik if he would host
> them).
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 2:52 PM, matt ingalls  wrote:
>
> i thought if you used source files or static linked from other LGPL code,
>
> you then had to distribute the "modified" source ( i don't understand if
> that means just adding it into cvs or what? )???
>
> at any rate, it still would be nice to have API functions to optionally
> bypass libsndfile.  for example, for better performance, host frontends
> might want to do their own soundfile buffering and threading -- or use
> different i/o routines ( OSX's AudioFileStream services, for example ).  and
> there is always the possibility that libsndfile doesn't compile on a certain
> system, or becomes unusable, unavailable, or undesirable for some reason..
>
> On Nov 23, 2009, at 11:24 AM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>
> I don't see any reason not to build csound with libsndfile. What you
>
> can do is add libsndfile src files to csound and build it into csound,
>
> if you need. But libsndfile can also be built and linked to statically.
>
> On 23 Nov 2009, at 19:16, matt ingalls wrote:
>
> how hard do you think it would be to get csound to compile/run
>
> without libsndfile?
>
> (in which cases, i guess all needed functionality would go through
>
> the API and
>
> then in cases where the host is not supporting that it could at
>
> least run in realtime and
>
>  quit gracefully whenever a sndfile function was needed?)
>
> i think this would be good for other uses besides the iPhone too!
>
> (real-time audio plugins, etc) and always good to be flexible for
>
> whenever the next
>
> best thing comes along...
>
> btw for the time being,
>
> i thought i would try to see if could at least compile libsndfile as
>
> a static iPhone library.
>
> (remember, iPhone does not allow dynamic libs).
>
> i took a look at libsndfile configure/make files but it all is too
>
> daunting for me..
>
> -m
>
> On Nov 20, 2009, at 6:57 AM, john ffitch wrote:
>
> But not realtime audio
>
> ==John ffitch
>
> "Victor" == Victor Lazzarini  writes:
>
> Victor> For all soundfile writing and reading.
>
> Victor> On 19 Nov 2009, at 22:21, Rory Walsh wrote:
>
> Out of curiosity is libsndfile only needed for file writing opcodes
>
> like diskin/soundin etc?
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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>
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>
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> focus on
>
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>
> Csound-devel mailing list
>
> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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>
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> on
>
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>
> Csound-devel mailing list
>
> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>
>
>
> matt ingalls
>
> matt@sonomatics.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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>
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>
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>
>
>
>
> --
> Michael Gogins
> Irreducible Productions
> http://www.michael-gogins.com
> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>
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>
>
> matt ingalls
> matt@sonomatics.com
>
>
>
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>



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Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com

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yes, I am guessing here no one is trying to make csound or libsdndfile  
closed source. You can pick up libsndfile srcs, modify them, fork  
them, release them again under LGPL.

My opinion is that libsndfile is probably the most efficient way of  
dealing with soundfiles in a variety of formats. It's an excellent  
codebase and I wouldn't think reimplementing it or substituting it by  
another API is worthwhile.

Victor

On 23 Nov 2009, at 20:06, Michael Gogins wrote:

> In this case, I think it's OK to statically link compiled sources into
> another app. The sources, if not modified, are of course publicly
> available and as far as I can tell (but IAMNAL) that satisfies the
> requirement.
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 3:02 PM, matt ingalls   
> wrote:
>> well i put "modified" in quotes, which i meant as in "derivative  
>> work"
>> but wikipedia explains it better:
>> Essentially, if it is a "work that uses the library", then it must be
>> possible for the software to be linked with a newer version of the
>> LGPL-covered program. The most commonly used method for doing so is  
>> to use
>> "a suitable shared library mechanism for linking". Alternatively,
>> a statically linked library is allowed if either source code or  
>> linkable
>> object files are provided.
>> On Nov 23, 2009, at 11:57 AM, Michael Gogins wrote:
>>
>> Why would we need to modify libsndfile sources? I'm only talking  
>> about
>> compiling and linking them. Static linkage is only a problem fo GPL
>> code linked with LGPL code. Both libsndfile and Csound are LGPL. So  
>> we
>> can definitely statically link libsndfile code with Csound.
>>
>> But if we did have to modify libsndfile sources, which is certainly
>> possible, then yes, we would have to put them into Csound CVS (or
>> somewhere, maybe give the modifications back to Erik if he would host
>> them).
>>
>> Regards,
>> Mike
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 2:52 PM, matt ingalls   
>> wrote:
>>
>> i thought if you used source files or static linked from other LGPL  
>> code,
>>
>> you then had to distribute the "modified" source ( i don't  
>> understand if
>> that means just adding it into cvs or what? )???
>>
>> at any rate, it still would be nice to have API functions to  
>> optionally
>> bypass libsndfile.  for example, for better performance, host  
>> frontends
>> might want to do their own soundfile buffering and threading -- or  
>> use
>> different i/o routines ( OSX's AudioFileStream services, for  
>> example ).  and
>> there is always the possibility that libsndfile doesn't compile on  
>> a certain
>> system, or becomes unusable, unavailable, or undesirable for some  
>> reason..
>>
>> On Nov 23, 2009, at 11:24 AM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>
>> I don't see any reason not to build csound with libsndfile. What you
>>
>> can do is add libsndfile src files to csound and build it into  
>> csound,
>>
>> if you need. But libsndfile can also be built and linked to  
>> statically.
>>
>> On 23 Nov 2009, at 19:16, matt ingalls wrote:
>>
>> how hard do you think it would be to get csound to compile/run
>>
>> without libsndfile?
>>
>> (in which cases, i guess all needed functionality would go through
>>
>> the API and
>>
>> then in cases where the host is not supporting that it could at
>>
>> least run in realtime and
>>
>>  quit gracefully whenever a sndfile function was needed?)
>>
>> i think this would be good for other uses besides the iPhone too!
>>
>> (real-time audio plugins, etc) and always good to be flexible for
>>
>> whenever the next
>>
>> best thing comes along...
>>
>> btw for the time being,
>>
>> i thought i would try to see if could at least compile libsndfile as
>>
>> a static iPhone library.
>>
>> (remember, iPhone does not allow dynamic libs).
>>
>> i took a look at libsndfile configure/make files but it all is too
>>
>> daunting for me..
>>
>> -m
>>
>> On Nov 20, 2009, at 6:57 AM, john ffitch wrote:
>>
>> But not realtime audio
>>
>> ==John ffitch
>>
>> "Victor" == Victor Lazzarini  writes:
>>
>> Victor> For all soundfile writing and reading.
>>
>> Victor> On 19 Nov 2009, at 22:21, Rory Walsh wrote:
>>
>> Out of curiosity is libsndfile only needed for file writing opcodes
>>
>> like diskin/soundin etc?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
>>
>> 30-Day
>>
>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>>
>> focus on
>>
>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>
>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports  
>> 2008 30-Day
>>
>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment -  
>> and focus
>> on
>>
>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
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>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> matt ingalls
>>
>> matt@sonomatics.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
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I completely agree with Victor. I use libsndfile for all my non-Csound
soundfile work. Just plunk the sources into your project and build
them. If you have to modify them, first talk to Erik, then if that
doesn't work fork them and distribute them.

Regards,
Mike

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Victor Lazzarini
 wrote:
> yes, I am guessing here no one is trying to make csound or libsdndfile
> closed source. You can pick up libsndfile srcs, modify them, fork
> them, release them again under LGPL.
>
> My opinion is that libsndfile is probably the most efficient way of
> dealing with soundfiles in a variety of formats. It's an excellent
> codebase and I wouldn't think reimplementing it or substituting it by
> another API is worthwhile.
>
> Victor
>
> On 23 Nov 2009, at 20:06, Michael Gogins wrote:
>
>> In this case, I think it's OK to statically link compiled sources into
>> another app. The sources, if not modified, are of course publicly
>> available and as far as I can tell (but IAMNAL) that satisfies the
>> requirement.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Mike
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 3:02 PM, matt ingalls 
>> wrote:
>>> well i put "modified" in quotes, which i meant as in "derivative
>>> work"
>>> but wikipedia explains it better:
>>> Essentially, if it is a "work that uses the library", then it must be
>>> possible for the software to be linked with a newer version of the
>>> LGPL-covered program. The most commonly used method for doing so is
>>> to use
>>> "a suitable shared library mechanism for linking". Alternatively,
>>> a statically linked library is allowed if either source code or
>>> linkable
>>> object files are provided.
>>> On Nov 23, 2009, at 11:57 AM, Michael Gogins wrote:
>>>
>>> Why would we need to modify libsndfile sources? I'm only talking
>>> about
>>> compiling and linking them. Static linkage is only a problem fo GPL
>>> code linked with LGPL code. Both libsndfile and Csound are LGPL. So
>>> we
>>> can definitely statically link libsndfile code with Csound.
>>>
>>> But if we did have to modify libsndfile sources, which is certainly
>>> possible, then yes, we would have to put them into Csound CVS (or
>>> somewhere, maybe give the modifications back to Erik if he would host
>>> them).
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 2:52 PM, matt ingalls 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> i thought if you used source files or static linked from other LGPL
>>> code,
>>>
>>> you then had to distribute the "modified" source ( i don't
>>> understand if
>>> that means just adding it into cvs or what? )???
>>>
>>> at any rate, it still would be nice to have API functions to
>>> optionally
>>> bypass libsndfile.  for example, for better performance, host
>>> frontends
>>> might want to do their own soundfile buffering and threading -- or
>>> use
>>> different i/o routines ( OSX's AudioFileStream services, for
>>> example ).  and
>>> there is always the possibility that libsndfile doesn't compile on
>>> a certain
>>> system, or becomes unusable, unavailable, or undesirable for some
>>> reason..
>>>
>>> On Nov 23, 2009, at 11:24 AM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>>
>>> I don't see any reason not to build csound with libsndfile. What you
>>>
>>> can do is add libsndfile src files to csound and build it into
>>> csound,
>>>
>>> if you need. But libsndfile can also be built and linked to
>>> statically.
>>>
>>> On 23 Nov 2009, at 19:16, matt ingalls wrote:
>>>
>>> how hard do you think it would be to get csound to compile/run
>>>
>>> without libsndfile?
>>>
>>> (in which cases, i guess all needed functionality would go through
>>>
>>> the API and
>>>
>>> then in cases where the host is not supporting that it could at
>>>
>>> least run in realtime and
>>>
>>>  quit gracefully whenever a sndfile function was needed?)
>>>
>>> i think this would be good for other uses besides the iPhone too!
>>>
>>> (real-time audio plugins, etc) and always good to be flexible for
>>>
>>> whenever the next
>>>
>>> best thing comes along...
>>>
>>> btw for the time being,
>>>
>>> i thought i would try to see if could at least compile libsndfile as
>>>
>>> a static iPhone library.
>>>
>>> (remember, iPhone does not allow dynamic libs).
>>>
>>> i took a look at libsndfile configure/make files but it all is too
>>>
>>> daunting for me..
>>>
>>> -m
>>>
>>> On Nov 20, 2009, at 6:57 AM, john ffitch wrote:
>>>
>>> But not realtime audio
>>>
>>> ==John ffitch
>>>
>>> "Victor" == Victor Lazzarini  writes:
>>>
>>> Victor> For all soundfile writing and reading.
>>>
>>> Victor> On 19 Nov 2009, at 22:21, Rory Walsh wrote:
>>>
>>> Out of curiosity is libsndfile only needed for file writing opcodes
>>>
>>> like diskin/soundin etc?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>> matt@sonomatics.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>> Irreducible Productions
>>> http://www.michael-gogins.com
>>> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> Irreducible Productions
>> http://www.michael-gogins.com
>> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>>
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> My opinion is that libsndfile is probably the most efficient way of  
> dealing with soundfiles in a variety of formats.

yes of course, but it still seems unwise to not have the ability to go without it -- and isn't it kind of weird that this is the *only required* 3rd-party library to build Csound?

and one thing against libsndfile:  it doesn't (and will never) support mp3! -- if my frontend wanted to support mp3 and there were soundfile i/o routines in csoundAPI, i could then have my frontend contain private routines instead.


-m



matt ingalls
matt@sonomatics.com




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> 
>  Just plunk the sources into your project and build
> them.

have you done this before? 
 i already tried it, with no success.

matt ingalls
matt@sonomatics.com




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I haven't tried it, no. I imagine it might take some work. I would
start by building libsndfile as a shared library, look at the compiler
command lines and the linker command line, and figure out what I need
to do in my own makefile from that. You might even be able to pipe the
build messages into a text file, edit it to turn it into a shell
script, and run that to build the files you need or to make a static
library.

Regards,
Mike

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 4:09 PM, matt ingalls  wrote:
>
>>
>>  Just plunk the sources into your project and build
>> them.
>
> have you done this before?
>  i already tried it, with no success.
>
> matt ingalls
> matt@sonomatics.com
>
>
>
>
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No, all you need is to add an opcode linked to an mp3 lib of your  
choice.

The reason it is the only 3rd party lib required by csound is I guess  
because it works very well.

Victor

On 23 Nov 2009, at 21:07, matt ingalls wrote:

>
>> My opinion is that libsndfile is probably the most efficient way of
>> dealing with soundfiles in a variety of formats.
>
> yes of course, but it still seems unwise to not have the ability to  
> go without it -- and isn't it kind of weird that this is the *only  
> required* 3rd-party library to build Csound?
>
> and one thing against libsndfile:  it doesn't (and will never)  
> support mp3! -- if my frontend wanted to support mp3 and there were  
> soundfile i/o routines in csoundAPI, i could then have my frontend  
> contain private routines instead.
>
>
> -m
>
>
>
> matt ingalls
> matt@sonomatics.com
>
>
>
>
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But what's the problem of just linking to a static libsndfile?

Victor
On 23 Nov 2009, at 21:13, Michael Gogins wrote:

> I haven't tried it, no. I imagine it might take some work. I would
> start by building libsndfile as a shared library, look at the compiler
> command lines and the linker command line, and figure out what I need
> to do in my own makefile from that. You might even be able to pipe the
> build messages into a text file, edit it to turn it into a shell
> script, and run that to build the files you need or to make a static
> library.
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 4:09 PM, matt ingalls   
> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>  Just plunk the sources into your project and build
>>> them.
>>
>> have you done this before?
>>  i already tried it, with no success.
>>
>> matt ingalls
>> matt@sonomatics.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
>
> -- 
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> Irreducible Productions
> http://www.michael-gogins.com
> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>
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Can you build one with the supplied build system?

Mike

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Victor Lazzarini
 wrote:
> But what's the problem of just linking to a static libsndfile?
>
> Victor
> On 23 Nov 2009, at 21:13, Michael Gogins wrote:
>
>> I haven't tried it, no. I imagine it might take some work. I would
>> start by building libsndfile as a shared library, look at the compiler
>> command lines and the linker command line, and figure out what I need
>> to do in my own makefile from that. You might even be able to pipe the
>> build messages into a text file, edit it to turn it into a shell
>> script, and run that to build the files you need or to make a static
>> library.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Mike
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 4:09 PM, matt ingalls 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Just plunk the sources into your project and build
>>>> them.
>>>
>>> have you done this before?
>>>  i already tried it, with no success.
>>>
>>> matt ingalls
>>> matt@sonomatics.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> Irreducible Productions
>> http://www.michael-gogins.com
>> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>>
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yes, it gets built by default, at least on OSX:

coltrane:~ victor$ ls -l /usr/local/lib/libsndfile.*
-rwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel   455776 20 Oct 16:57 /usr/local/lib/ 
libsndfile.1.dylib
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel  1648936 20 Oct 16:57 /usr/local/lib/ 
libsndfile.a
lrwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel       18 20 Oct 16:57 /usr/local/lib/ 
libsndfile.dylib -> libsndfile.1.dylib
-rwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel      958 20 Oct 16:57 /usr/local/lib/ 
libsndfile.la


Vicyot


On 23 Nov 2009, at 21:19, Michael Gogins wrote:

> Can you build one with the supplied build system?
>
> Mike
>
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Victor Lazzarini
>  wrote:
>> But what's the problem of just linking to a static libsndfile?
>>
>> Victor
>> On 23 Nov 2009, at 21:13, Michael Gogins wrote:
>>
>>> I haven't tried it, no. I imagine it might take some work. I would
>>> start by building libsndfile as a shared library, look at the  
>>> compiler
>>> command lines and the linker command line, and figure out what I  
>>> need
>>> to do in my own makefile from that. You might even be able to pipe  
>>> the
>>> build messages into a text file, edit it to turn it into a shell
>>> script, and run that to build the files you need or to make a static
>>> library.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 4:09 PM, matt ingalls 
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Just plunk the sources into your project and build
>>>>> them.
>>>>
>>>> have you done this before?
>>>>  i already tried it, with no success.
>>>>
>>>> matt ingalls
>>>> matt@sonomatics.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>> Irreducible Productions
>>> http://www.michael-gogins.com
>>> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>>>
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>
>
>
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I don't know much about OS X... is the .a an import library or a
complete self-contained static library?

Regards,
Mike

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Victor Lazzarini
 wrote:
> yes, it gets built by default, at least on OSX:
>
> coltrane:~ victor$ ls -l /usr/local/lib/libsndfile.*
> -rwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel   455776 20 Oct 16:57 /usr/local/lib/
> libsndfile.1.dylib
> -rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel  1648936 20 Oct 16:57 /usr/local/lib/
> libsndfile.a
> lrwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel       18 20 Oct 16:57 /usr/local/lib/
> libsndfile.dylib -> libsndfile.1.dylib
> -rwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel      958 20 Oct 16:57 /usr/local/lib/
> libsndfile.la
>
>
> Vicyot
>
>
> On 23 Nov 2009, at 21:19, Michael Gogins wrote:
>
>> Can you build one with the supplied build system?
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Victor Lazzarini
>>  wrote:
>>> But what's the problem of just linking to a static libsndfile?
>>>
>>> Victor
>>> On 23 Nov 2009, at 21:13, Michael Gogins wrote:
>>>
>>>> I haven't tried it, no. I imagine it might take some work. I would
>>>> start by building libsndfile as a shared library, look at the
>>>> compiler
>>>> command lines and the linker command line, and figure out what I
>>>> need
>>>> to do in my own makefile from that. You might even be able to pipe
>>>> the
>>>> build messages into a text file, edit it to turn it into a shell
>>>> script, and run that to build the files you need or to make a static
>>>> library.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 4:09 PM, matt ingalls 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Just plunk the sources into your project and build
>>>>>> them.
>>>>>
>>>>> have you done this before?
>>>>>  i already tried it, with no success.
>>>>>
>>>>> matt ingalls
>>>>> matt@sonomatics.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports
>>>>> 2008 30-Day
>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment -
>>>>> and focus on
>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Michael Gogins
>>>> Irreducible Productions
>>>> http://www.michael-gogins.com
>>>> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
>>>> 30-Day
>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>>>> focus on
>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>> and focus on
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>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Michael Gogins
>> Irreducible Productions
>> http://www.michael-gogins.com
>> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> 30-Day
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>> focus on
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>
>
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-- 
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http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com

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yes, any *.a files are just ranlib'd  ar-created archives of object  
files (that is the same across all Unixes, including linux).

Victor


On 23 Nov 2009, at 21:25, Michael Gogins wrote:

> I don't know much about OS X... is the .a an import library or a
> complete self-contained static library?
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Victor Lazzarini
>  wrote:
>> yes, it gets built by default, at least on OSX:
>>
>> coltrane:~ victor$ ls -l /usr/local/lib/libsndfile.*
>> -rwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel   455776 20 Oct 16:57 /usr/local/lib/
>> libsndfile.1.dylib
>> -rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel  1648936 20 Oct 16:57 /usr/local/lib/
>> libsndfile.a
>> lrwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel       18 20 Oct 16:57 /usr/local/lib/
>> libsndfile.dylib -> libsndfile.1.dylib
>> -rwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel      958 20 Oct 16:57 /usr/local/lib/
>> libsndfile.la
>>
>>
>> Vicyot
>>
>>
>> On 23 Nov 2009, at 21:19, Michael Gogins wrote:
>>
>>> Can you build one with the supplied build system?
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Victor Lazzarini
>>>  wrote:
>>>> But what's the problem of just linking to a static libsndfile?
>>>>
>>>> Victor
>>>> On 23 Nov 2009, at 21:13, Michael Gogins wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I haven't tried it, no. I imagine it might take some work. I would
>>>>> start by building libsndfile as a shared library, look at the
>>>>> compiler
>>>>> command lines and the linker command line, and figure out what I
>>>>> need
>>>>> to do in my own makefile from that. You might even be able to pipe
>>>>> the
>>>>> build messages into a text file, edit it to turn it into a shell
>>>>> script, and run that to build the files you need or to make a  
>>>>> static
>>>>> library.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Mike
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 4:09 PM, matt ingalls  
>>>>> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Just plunk the sources into your project and build
>>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> have you done this before?
>>>>>>  i already tried it, with no success.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> matt ingalls
>>>>>> matt@sonomatics.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports
>>>>>> 2008 30-Day
>>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment -
>>>>>> and focus on
>>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new  
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Michael Gogins
>>>>> Irreducible Productions
>>>>> http://www.michael-gogins.com
>>>>> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports  
>>>>> 2008
>>>>> 30-Day
>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment -  
>>>>> and
>>>>> focus on
>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new  
>>>>> with
>>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports
>>>> 2008 30-Day
>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment -
>>>> and focus on
>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Michael Gogins
>>> Irreducible Productions
>>> http://www.michael-gogins.com
>>> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
>>> 30-Day
>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>>> focus on
>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
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>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> 2008 30-Day
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>> and focus on
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>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Michael Gogins
> Irreducible Productions
> http://www.michael-gogins.com
> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> 30-Day
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> focus on
> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
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Just to complement, there are no such things as import libraries  
(afaik) on Unixes. Either we have shared (possibly of more than one  
type) or static ones.

Victor

On 23 Nov 2009, at 21:25, Michael Gogins wrote:

> I don't know much about OS X... is the .a an import library or a
> complete self-contained static library?
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Victor Lazzarini
>  wrote:
>> yes, it gets built by default, at least on OSX:
>>
>> coltrane:~ victor$ ls -l /usr/local/lib/libsndfile.*
>> -rwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel   455776 20 Oct 16:57 /usr/local/lib/
>> libsndfile.1.dylib
>> -rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel  1648936 20 Oct 16:57 /usr/local/lib/
>> libsndfile.a
>> lrwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel       18 20 Oct 16:57 /usr/local/lib/
>> libsndfile.dylib -> libsndfile.1.dylib
>> -rwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel      958 20 Oct 16:57 /usr/local/lib/
>> libsndfile.la
>>
>>
>> Vicyot
>>
>>
>> On 23 Nov 2009, at 21:19, Michael Gogins wrote:
>>
>>> Can you build one with the supplied build system?
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Victor Lazzarini
>>>  wrote:
>>>> But what's the problem of just linking to a static libsndfile?
>>>>
>>>> Victor
>>>> On 23 Nov 2009, at 21:13, Michael Gogins wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I haven't tried it, no. I imagine it might take some work. I would
>>>>> start by building libsndfile as a shared library, look at the
>>>>> compiler
>>>>> command lines and the linker command line, and figure out what I
>>>>> need
>>>>> to do in my own makefile from that. You might even be able to pipe
>>>>> the
>>>>> build messages into a text file, edit it to turn it into a shell
>>>>> script, and run that to build the files you need or to make a  
>>>>> static
>>>>> library.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Mike
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 4:09 PM, matt ingalls  
>>>>> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Just plunk the sources into your project and build
>>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> have you done this before?
>>>>>>  i already tried it, with no success.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> matt ingalls
>>>>>> matt@sonomatics.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports
>>>>>> 2008 30-Day
>>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment -
>>>>>> and focus on
>>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new  
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Michael Gogins
>>>>> Irreducible Productions
>>>>> http://www.michael-gogins.com
>>>>> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports  
>>>>> 2008
>>>>> 30-Day
>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment -  
>>>>> and
>>>>> focus on
>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new  
>>>>> with
>>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports
>>>> 2008 30-Day
>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment -
>>>> and focus on
>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Michael Gogins
>>> Irreducible Productions
>>> http://www.michael-gogins.com
>>> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
>>> 30-Day
>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>>> focus on
>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> and focus on
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>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Michael Gogins
> Irreducible Productions
> http://www.michael-gogins.com
> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Of course, I was stuck in Windows-land... where there are, with MinGW,
.a files that are import libraries for .dlls.

Regards,
Mike

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Victor Lazzarini
 wrote:
> Just to complement, there are no such things as import libraries
> (afaik) on Unixes. Either we have shared (possibly of more than one
> type) or static ones.
>
> Victor
>
> On 23 Nov 2009, at 21:25, Michael Gogins wrote:
>
>> I don't know much about OS X... is the .a an import library or a
>> complete self-contained static library?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Mike
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Victor Lazzarini
>>  wrote:
>>> yes, it gets built by default, at least on OSX:
>>>
>>> coltrane:~ victor$ ls -l /usr/local/lib/libsndfile.*
>>> -rwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel   455776 20 Oct 16:57 /usr/local/lib/
>>> libsndfile.1.dylib
>>> -rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel  1648936 20 Oct 16:57 /usr/local/lib/
>>> libsndfile.a
>>> lrwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel       18 20 Oct 16:57 /usr/local/lib/
>>> libsndfile.dylib -> libsndfile.1.dylib
>>> -rwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel      958 20 Oct 16:57 /usr/local/lib/
>>> libsndfile.la
>>>
>>>
>>> Vicyot
>>>
>>>
>>> On 23 Nov 2009, at 21:19, Michael Gogins wrote:
>>>
>>>> Can you build one with the supplied build system?
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Victor Lazzarini
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> But what's the problem of just linking to a static libsndfile?
>>>>>
>>>>> Victor
>>>>> On 23 Nov 2009, at 21:13, Michael Gogins wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I haven't tried it, no. I imagine it might take some work. I would
>>>>>> start by building libsndfile as a shared library, look at the
>>>>>> compiler
>>>>>> command lines and the linker command line, and figure out what I
>>>>>> need
>>>>>> to do in my own makefile from that. You might even be able to pipe
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> build messages into a text file, edit it to turn it into a shell
>>>>>> script, and run that to build the files you need or to make a
>>>>>> static
>>>>>> library.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 4:09 PM, matt ingalls
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  Just plunk the sources into your project and build
>>>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> have you done this before?
>>>>>>>  i already tried it, with no success.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> matt ingalls
>>>>>>> matt@sonomatics.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports
>>>>>>> 2008 30-Day
>>>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment -
>>>>>>> and focus on
>>>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Michael Gogins
>>>>>> Irreducible Productions
>>>>>> http://www.michael-gogins.com
>>>>>> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports
>>>>>> 2008
>>>>>> 30-Day
>>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment -
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> focus on
>>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports
>>>>> 2008 30-Day
>>>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment -
>>>>> and focus on
>>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
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>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Michael Gogins
>>>> Irreducible Productions
>>>> http://www.michael-gogins.com
>>>> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
>>>> 30-Day
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>>>> focus on
>>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
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>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Michael Gogins
>> Irreducible Productions
>> http://www.michael-gogins.com
>> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> 30-Day
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Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com

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matt ingalls wrote:

> and one thing against libsndfile:  it doesn't (and will never) support
> mp3!

Thats actually not correct. When the patents for MP3 expire there will
be nothing stopping from grabbing one of the existing LGPL licensed MP3 
implementations and hooking it into libsndfile.

For the reason why libsndfile does not currently support MP3 you can look
at the FAQ:

    http://www.mega-nerd.com/libsndfile/FAQ.html#Q020

In particular the link to the MP3 licensing organisation:

    http://www.mp3licensing.com/royalty/software.html

Regardless of what other projects do with MP3, my reading of that page
suggests that adding MP3 decoding alone would require me to pay that
organisation US$1.25 per download, with a minimum payment of US$15000
per year.

Erik
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Erik de Castro Lopo
http://www.mega-nerd.com/

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You could "easily" write a dummy library that included all the API
functions, but just gave an error.  Then link with that rather than
the real code,  But I remain a great fan of libsndfile; of all the
external libraries we use it is the best; secure, robust, maintained,
responsive.... 
  Again I am happy to record my appreciation of Erik's work.
==John ffitch

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On Nov 23, 2009, at 1:14 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:

> No, all you need is to add an opcode linked to an mp3 lib of your  
> choice.

you mean a csound external opcode?  
how will this work for Gen01, in/out family opcodes, etc?


matt ingalls
matt@sonomatics.com




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Add a new GEN, which can be a plugin too.

Using in with soundfiles is not particularly useful, and while out is  
used for soundfiles,
it is also handy to write files with opcodes like fout.

Not too much of a limitation, IMHO. Certainly not a reason to ditch  
libsndfile.

Victor


On 25 Nov 2009, at 00:27, matt ingalls wrote:

>
> On Nov 23, 2009, at 1:14 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>
>> No, all you need is to add an opcode linked to an mp3 lib of your
>> choice.
>
> you mean a csound external opcode?
> how will this work for Gen01, in/out family opcodes, etc?
>
>
> matt ingalls
> matt@sonomatics.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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There is already MP3input opcode and GEN.  One could construct an output
opcode, or use the piping facility that already exists to use lane or some
other external compressor.

> Add a new GEN, which can be a plugin too.
>
> Using in with soundfiles is not particularly useful, and while out is
> used for soundfiles,
> it is also handy to write files with opcodes like fout.
>
> Not too much of a limitation, IMHO. Certainly not a reason to ditch
> libsndfile.
>
> Victor
>
>
> On 25 Nov 2009, at 00:27, matt ingalls wrote:
>
>>
>> On Nov 23, 2009, at 1:14 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>
>>> No, all you need is to add an opcode linked to an mp3 lib of your
>>> choice.
>>
>> you mean a csound external opcode?
>> how will this work for Gen01, in/out family opcodes, etc?
>>
>>
>> matt ingalls
>> matt@sonomatics.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
>> 30-Day
>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>> focus on
>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
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>
>
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>
>
>



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maybe it was not clear -- i was offering to do this work myself - i was

just asking if any of you thought it was too difficult or dangerous. 

matt ingalls

matt@sonomatics.com

---

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----- Original Message -----

From: matt ingalls

To: Developer discussions

Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 10:19 PM

Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] UB binary of csound framework

On Nov 25, 2009, at 1:38 PM, victor wrote:

I think they are both (difficult and dangerous). Also will require an API bump.

 

As for "in", the same could be done with an opcode.

fair enough

If you want to send in the filename,

a macro would do the job. But you can also run lots of soundfiles in one csound run. My opinion

of -i and in (regarding soundfiles) does not change, it's not that useful or flexible. IMHO it is a

legacy feature.

well the MacCsound soundfile effects feature does rely heavily on it..

 

Implementing MP3 output as a plugin is (IMHO) the best option. 

perhaps, but it definitely would be a smoother user experience to have mp3 work just like any other file in all places throughout the program.  anyway, i was just citing mp3 as ONE EXAMPLE why 

having the flexibility to optionally not use libsndfile seems desirable.   

 but if it is going to be a pain in the butt i don't see it as worth the effort at this point and i actually was more interested in just being able to compile and/or run csound without it.

-m

matt ingalls

matt@sonomatics.com

---

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