Could you please be a little less concise?

Regards,
Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Felipe Sateler" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 9:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] Csound 5.12 Request


> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Every python application out there is using "import csnd" to work with
csound. If the name changes from csnd to csnd{f,d}, all those
applications would stop working with csound 5.12 and later, since there
is no longer any module called csnd. Applications would need to be
changed to use "import csndf as csnd" or in some other way.


On Fri, 2009-10-23 at 21:29 -0400, michael.gogins@gmail.com wrote:
> Could you please be a little less concise?
> 
> Regards,
> Mike
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Felipe Sateler" 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 9:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] Csound 5.12 Request
> 
> 
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
> > is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
> > developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
> > ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
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> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Csound-devel mailing list
> > Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
> > 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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-- 
Saludos,
Felipe Sateler

I don't use Python at all, so I may be way off in suggesting this ...

It seems that the "import csnd" directive in a python script just imports csnd.py, right?  If that's the case then wouldn't it be possible to just stub csnd.py to import csndf.py or csndd.py?  The 5.12 version of csndf.py would be the same as csnd.py from the 5.11 floats version, and the 5.12 version of csnd.py for the floats version would just import csndf.py as csnd, for example ...


--- start of csndf.py (5.12) ---
#
# put contents of current 5.11 csnd.py here
#
--- end of file ---


--- start of csnd.py (5.12) ---

import csndf as csnd

--- end of file ---


... that way when older python scripts resolve the "import csnd" directive, it will still work.




----- "Felipe Sateler"  wrote:
> Every python application out there is using "import csnd" to work
> with
> csound. If the name changes from csnd to csnd{f,d}, all those
> applications would stop working with csound 5.12 and later, since
> there
> is no longer any module called csnd. Applications would need to be
> changed to use "import csndf as csnd" or in some other way.
> 
> 
> On Fri, 2009-10-23 at 21:29 -0400, michael.gogins@gmail.com wrote:
> > Could you please be a little less concise?
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Mike
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Felipe Sateler" 
> > To: 
> > Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 9:26 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] Csound 5.12 Request
> > 
> > 
> > >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF,
> CA
> > > is the only developer event you need to attend this year.
> Jumpstart your
> > > developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market
> and stay
> > > ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register
> now!
> > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
> > 
> > 
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Csound-devel mailing list
> > > Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF,
> CA
> > is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart
> your
> > developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and
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> > ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register
> now!
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
> 
> 
> -- 
> Saludos,
> Felipe Sateler


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Andy Fillebrown wrote:
> I don't use Python at all, so I may be way off in suggesting this ...
> 
> It seems that the "import csnd" directive in a python script just imports csnd.py, right?  If that's the case then wouldn't it be possible to just stub csnd.py to import csndf.py or csndd.py?  The 5.12 version of csndf.py would be the same as csnd.py from the 5.11 floats version, and the 5.12 version of csnd.py for the floats version would just import csndf.py as csnd, for example ...
> 
> 
> --- start of csndf.py (5.12) ---
> #
> # put contents of current 5.11 csnd.py here
> #
> --- end of file ---
> 
> 
> --- start of csnd.py (5.12) ---
> 
> import csndf as csnd
> 
> --- end of file ---
> 
> ... that way when older python scripts resolve the "import csnd" directive, it will still work.


This would put everything in csnd.csnd.stuff, so it wouldn't work. But 
this might work:

# --- csnd.py (5.12) ---

from csndf import *

# --- end of file ---

Haven't tried it though, and I'm not sure that a module exports all 
symbols including the ones imported from another module, but I think it 
should?

/Jonatan

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I proposed that a couple of posts ago, but I'm not sure if imports get
leaked. That is, I'm not sure if the import inside csnd.py would leak to
the application importing csnd.py. A simple test suggest they aren't.
What apparently is possible is to do the following:

from csndf import *

And then the contents of csndf would be available under the csnd
namespace.

On Sat, 2009-10-24 at 09:22 -0700, Andy Fillebrown wrote:
> 
> 
> I don't use Python at all, so I may be way off in suggesting this ...
> 
> It seems that the "import csnd" directive in a python script just imports csnd.py, right?  If that's the case then wouldn't it be possible to just stub csnd.py to import csndf.py or csndd.py?  The 5.12 version of csndf.py would be the same as csnd.py from the 5.11 floats version, and the 5.12 version of csnd.py for the floats version would just import csndf.py as csnd, for example ...
> 
> 
> --- start of csndf.py (5.12) ---
> #
> # put contents of current 5.11 csnd.py here
> #
> --- end of file ---
> 
> 
> --- start of csnd.py (5.12) ---
> 
> import csndf as csnd
> 
> --- end of file ---
> 
> 
> ... that way when older python scripts resolve the "import csnd" directive, it will still work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- "Felipe Sateler"  wrote:
> > Every python application out there is using "import csnd" to work
> > with
> > csound. If the name changes from csnd to csnd{f,d}, all those
> > applications would stop working with csound 5.12 and later, since
> > there
> > is no longer any module called csnd. Applications would need to be
> > changed to use "import csndf as csnd" or in some other way.
> > 
> > 
> > On Fri, 2009-10-23 at 21:29 -0400, michael.gogins@gmail.com wrote:
> > > Could you please be a little less concise?
> > > 
> > > Regards,
> > > Mike
> > > 
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: "Felipe Sateler" 
> > > To: 
> > > Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 9:26 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] Csound 5.12 Request
> > > 
> > > 
> > > >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF,
> > CA
> > > > is the only developer event you need to attend this year.
> > Jumpstart your
> > > > developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market
> > and stay
> > > > ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register
> > now!
> > > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
> > > 
> > > 
> > >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Csound-devel mailing list
> > > > Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF,
> > CA
> > > is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart
> > your
> > > developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and
> > stay 
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> > now!
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> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Saludos,
> > Felipe Sateler
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
> is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
> developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay 
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-- 
Saludos,
Felipe Sateler

Ah, that's what that post was about, I see now.

So assuming the python hurdle has been worked out, are there any other issues that would crop up from changing the names of the two different versions of csnd.dll, and can this be done for the next release?

Cheers,
~ andy.f




----- "Felipe Sateler"  wrote:
> I proposed that a couple of posts ago, but I'm not sure if imports
> get
> leaked. That is, I'm not sure if the import inside csnd.py would leak
> to
> the application importing csnd.py. A simple test suggest they aren't.
> What apparently is possible is to do the following:
> 
> from csndf import *
> 
> And then the contents of csndf would be available under the csnd
> namespace.
> 
> On Sat, 2009-10-24 at 09:22 -0700, Andy Fillebrown wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > I don't use Python at all, so I may be way off in suggesting this
> ...
> > 
> > It seems that the "import csnd" directive in a python script just
> imports csnd.py, right?  If that's the case then wouldn't it be
> possible to just stub csnd.py to import csndf.py or csndd.py?  The
> 5.12 version of csndf.py would be the same as csnd.py from the 5.11
> floats version, and the 5.12 version of csnd.py for the floats version
> would just import csndf.py as csnd, for example ...
> > 
> > 
> > --- start of csndf.py (5.12) ---
> > #
> > # put contents of current 5.11 csnd.py here
> > #
> > --- end of file ---
> > 
> > 
> > --- start of csnd.py (5.12) ---
> > 
> > import csndf as csnd
> > 
> > --- end of file ---
> > 
> > 
> > ... that way when older python scripts resolve the "import csnd"
> directive, it will still work.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ----- "Felipe Sateler"  wrote:
> > > Every python application out there is using "import csnd" to work
> > > with
> > > csound. If the name changes from csnd to csnd{f,d}, all those
> > > applications would stop working with csound 5.12 and later, since
> > > there
> > > is no longer any module called csnd. Applications would need to
> be
> > > changed to use "import csndf as csnd" or in some other way.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Fri, 2009-10-23 at 21:29 -0400, michael.gogins@gmail.com
> wrote:
> > > > Could you please be a little less concise?
> > > > 
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Mike
> > > > 
> > > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > > From: "Felipe Sateler" 
> > > > To: 
> > > > Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 9:26 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] Csound 5.12 Request
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > >
> > >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in
> SF,
> > > CA
> > > > > is the only developer event you need to attend this year.
> > > Jumpstart your
> > > > > developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to
> market
> > > and stay
> > > > > ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009.
> Register
> > > now!
> > > > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >
> > >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Csound-devel mailing list
> > > > > Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >
> > >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in
> SF,
> > > CA
> > > > is the only developer event you need to attend this year.
> Jumpstart
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> > > > developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market
> and
> > > stay 
> > > > ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009.
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> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > Saludos,
> > > Felipe Sateler
> > 
> > 
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF,
> CA
> > is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart
> your
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> 
> -- 
> Saludos,
> Felipe Sateler


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The problem with this is that csnd.py is automatically generated by  
SWIG and
we should not be tinkering with it. The way to do it is to change the  
interface
file, as I described in an earlier post that no one bothered to  
comment on.

Changing csnd.py is not a good idea.

Victor


On 24 Oct 2009, at 18:07, Felipe Sateler wrote:

> I proposed that a couple of posts ago, but I'm not sure if imports get
> leaked. That is, I'm not sure if the import inside csnd.py would  
> leak to
> the application importing csnd.py. A simple test suggest they aren't.
> What apparently is possible is to do the following:
>
> from csndf import *
>
> And then the contents of csndf would be available under the csnd
> namespace.
>
> On Sat, 2009-10-24 at 09:22 -0700, Andy Fillebrown wrote:
>>
>>
>> I don't use Python at all, so I may be way off in suggesting this ...
>>
>> It seems that the "import csnd" directive in a python script just  
>> imports csnd.py, right?  If that's the case then wouldn't it be  
>> possible to just stub csnd.py to import csndf.py or csndd.py?  The  
>> 5.12 version of csndf.py would be the same as csnd.py from the 5.11  
>> floats version, and the 5.12 version of csnd.py for the floats  
>> version would just import csndf.py as csnd, for example ...
>>
>>
>> --- start of csndf.py (5.12) ---
>> #
>> # put contents of current 5.11 csnd.py here
>> #
>> --- end of file ---
>>
>>
>> --- start of csnd.py (5.12) ---
>>
>> import csndf as csnd
>>
>> --- end of file ---
>>
>>
>> ... that way when older python scripts resolve the "import csnd"  
>> directive, it will still work.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- "Felipe Sateler"  wrote:
>>> Every python application out there is using "import csnd" to work
>>> with
>>> csound. If the name changes from csnd to csnd{f,d}, all those
>>> applications would stop working with csound 5.12 and later, since
>>> there
>>> is no longer any module called csnd. Applications would need to be
>>> changed to use "import csndf as csnd" or in some other way.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, 2009-10-23 at 21:29 -0400, michael.gogins@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> Could you please be a little less concise?
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Felipe Sateler" 
>>>> To: 
>>>> Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 9:26 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] Csound 5.12 Request
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF,
>>> CA
>>>>> is the only developer event you need to attend this year.
>>> Jumpstart your
>>>>> developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market
>>> and stay
>>>>> ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register
>>> now!
>>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF,
>>> CA
>>>> is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart
>>> your
>>>> developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market  
>>>> and
>>> stay
>>>> ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register
>>> now!
>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Saludos,
>>> Felipe Sateler
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
>> is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart  
>> your
>> developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market  
>> and stay
>> ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
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>
>
> -- 
> Saludos,
> Felipe Sateler
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
> is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart  
> your
> developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and  
> stay
> ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
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On Sat, 2009-10-24 at 19:13 +0100, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
> The problem with this is that csnd.py is automatically generated by  
> SWIG and
> we should not be tinkering with it. The way to do it is to change the  
> interface
> file, as I described in an earlier post that no one bothered to  
> comment on.
> 
> Changing csnd.py is not a good idea.

Not sure if this is useful, but another option that would not break
backward compatibility is to have csnd become a python package. The file
that gets imported becomes __init__.py in the csnd package. Inside
__init__.py, you can do conditional imports and publish the results to
the importing code. That way in client code

import csnd

would still work, and inside csnd/__init__.py you can control *what*
gets attached to the csnd namespace and where it comes from. I'm kind of
surprised that csnd is not a package actually, I would think that would
make the build process a lot more pythonic, and give people who are used
to python installs the setup.py and setup.cfg scripts that they expect
to see with a python product. This would also allow you to use the
__all__ directive to control what gets imported from a 

from csnd import * 

command.

my two cents
Iain

> 
> Victor
> 
> 
> On 24 Oct 2009, at 18:07, Felipe Sateler wrote:
> 
> > I proposed that a couple of posts ago, but I'm not sure if imports get
> > leaked. That is, I'm not sure if the import inside csnd.py would  
> > leak to
> > the application importing csnd.py. A simple test suggest they aren't.
> > What apparently is possible is to do the following:
> >
> > from csndf import *
> >
> > And then the contents of csndf would be available under the csnd
> > namespace.
> >
> > On Sat, 2009-10-24 at 09:22 -0700, Andy Fillebrown wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> I don't use Python at all, so I may be way off in suggesting this ...
> >>
> >> It seems that the "import csnd" directive in a python script just  
> >> imports csnd.py, right?  If that's the case then wouldn't it be  
> >> possible to just stub csnd.py to import csndf.py or csndd.py?  The  
> >> 5.12 version of csndf.py would be the same as csnd.py from the 5.11  
> >> floats version, and the 5.12 version of csnd.py for the floats  
> >> version would just import csndf.py as csnd, for example ...
> >>
> >>
> >> --- start of csndf.py (5.12) ---
> >> #
> >> # put contents of current 5.11 csnd.py here
> >> #
> >> --- end of file ---
> >>
> >>
> >> --- start of csnd.py (5.12) ---
> >>
> >> import csndf as csnd
> >>
> >> --- end of file ---
> >>
> >>
> >> ... that way when older python scripts resolve the "import csnd"  
> >> directive, it will still work.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- "Felipe Sateler"  wrote:
> >>> Every python application out there is using "import csnd" to work
> >>> with
> >>> csound. If the name changes from csnd to csnd{f,d}, all those
> >>> applications would stop working with csound 5.12 and later, since
> >>> there
> >>> is no longer any module called csnd. Applications would need to be
> >>> changed to use "import csndf as csnd" or in some other way.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, 2009-10-23 at 21:29 -0400, michael.gogins@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>> Could you please be a little less concise?
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>> Mike
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "Felipe Sateler" 
> >>>> To: 
> >>>> Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 9:26 PM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] Csound 5.12 Request
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF,
> >>> CA
> >>>>> is the only developer event you need to attend this year.
> >>> Jumpstart your
> >>>>> developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market
> >>> and stay
> >>>>> ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register
> >>> now!
> >>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Csound-devel mailing list
> >>>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF,
> >>> CA
> >>>> is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart
> >>> your
> >>>> developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market  
> >>>> and
> >>> stay
> >>>> ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register
> >>> now!
> >>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Csound-devel mailing list
> >>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -- 
> >>> Saludos,
> >>> Felipe Sateler
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
> >> is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart  
> >> your
> >> developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market  
> >> and stay
> >> ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
> >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Csound-devel mailing list
> >> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > Saludos,
> > Felipe Sateler
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
> > is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart  
> > your
> > developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and  
> > stay
> > ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference_______________________________________________
> > Csound-devel mailing list
> > Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
> is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
> developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay 
> ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
> _______________________________________________
> Csound-devel mailing list
> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay 
ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
_______________________________________________
Csound-devel mailing list
Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net