First, the Csound 5.08 Windows installers are still MinGW based. Based on 
performance issues, however, this is likely to change in future to either 
MSVC or Intel C++. Intel C++ is a 'drop in' replacement for MSVC and would 
likely entail similar issues as MSVC does.

Second, the installer for MSVC++ does need a network connection. I believe 
you may be able to order a DVD of it, or find online somewhere a DVD image 
that can be downloaded and burned onto a DVD on another computer in order to 
install on your computer.

Hope this helps,
Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tim Mortimer" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 9:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] Microsoft Visual C++ 2008 Express Edition


>
> I just dloaded an installer for MSVC++ (it was only a couple of meg, which
> surprised me, I hope it's not going to be looking for an internet 
> connection
> to complete the installation, my Csound PC doesn't have one...)
>
> Anyway it aborted the installation saying i needed service pack 2! to
> continue...
>
> Just thought i'd bring this up as 1) makes me slightly nervous about my
> chances with the MSVC based 5.08 binary installation 2) it's a massive 
> pain
> - i'll hassle a friend maybe to try & dload Service Pack 2 for me - is 
> that
> painless enough to install without loss of existing data / installations
> etc? It's not like a whole OS upgrade procedure is it?
>
>
>
> -----
> *******************
> www.phasetransitions.net
> hermetic music * python * csound * possibly mindless ranting
> various werk in perpetual delusions of progress....
>
> -- 
> View this message in context: 
> http://www.nabble.com/Microsoft-Visual-C%2B%2B-2008-Express-Edition-tp15525314p16074628.html
> Sent from the Csound - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
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Bloody Nora - I don't even have a DVD drive! ; ) - That's also something i
might need to wrecktify...

I have a friend whos dloading the 260MB installer for service pack 2 however
as we speak, so at least i'll have that on hand.  At least this is not at
all urgent. 

So baby steps....

Thanks for the info.


Michael Gogins wrote:
> 
> First, the Csound 5.08 Windows installers are still MinGW based. Based on 
> performance issues, however, this is likely to change in future to either 
> MSVC or Intel C++. Intel C++ is a 'drop in' replacement for MSVC and would 
> likely entail similar issues as MSVC does.
> 
> Second, the installer for MSVC++ does need a network connection. I believe 
> you may be able to order a DVD of it, or find online somewhere a DVD image 
> that can be downloaded and burned onto a DVD on another computer in order
> to 
> install on your computer.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> Mike
> 
> 
> 


-----
*******************
www.phasetransitions.net
hermetic music * python * csound * possibly mindless ranting
various werk in perpetual delusions of progress....

-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Microsoft-Visual-C%2B%2B-2008-Express-Edition-tp15525314p16074859.html
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Hi Tim. Is there something particular you need for your project that 
Mircosoft offers that MinGW does not? If not I highly recommend MinGW. 
Together with MSYS it's really a solid build environment. If you are 
looking for nice IDE I can also recommend Dev-C++ or if you prefer to 
have a form designer ala MS Visual C++ you can use wxDev-C++(each of 
these are available with MinGW binaries so you don't have to worry about 
setting anything up and don't have to download MinGW first). The plus 
side of all this is that your builds should be fairly easy to port to 
other platforms.

Rory.


Tim Mortimer wrote:
> Bloody Nora - I don't even have a DVD drive! ; ) - That's also something i
> might need to wrecktify...
> 
> I have a friend whos dloading the 260MB installer for service pack 2 however
> as we speak, so at least i'll have that on hand.  At least this is not at
> all urgent. 
> 
> So baby steps....
> 
> Thanks for the info.
> 
> 
> Michael Gogins wrote:
>> First, the Csound 5.08 Windows installers are still MinGW based. Based on 
>> performance issues, however, this is likely to change in future to either 
>> MSVC or Intel C++. Intel C++ is a 'drop in' replacement for MSVC and would 
>> likely entail similar issues as MSVC does.
>>
>> Second, the installer for MSVC++ does need a network connection. I believe 
>> you may be able to order a DVD of it, or find online somewhere a DVD image 
>> that can be downloaded and burned onto a DVD on another computer in order
>> to 
>> install on your computer.
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
> -----
> *******************
> www.phasetransitions.net
> hermetic music * python * csound * possibly mindless ranting
> various werk in perpetual delusions of progress....
> 

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Yes damned if you do damned if you don't basically.

Michael G recommended MSVC as a good entry level compiler, so thta was kind
of my motivation. 

I want to play around with C a bit - mainly for GUI stuff as a starting
point.

Specifically i would like to look at Juce, as well as play around with some
of your C API ideas (inc Cabbage) + generally make some inroads into
understanding C - writing some opcodes would also be a future possibility (i
hope)

Thanks for suggesting alternatives. It seems that Microsoft like to assume
1) you are an idiot 2) that you have high speed broadband (& that every
computer is the universe is connected to it) 3) that you should sign your
life away just for the pleasure of kissing their arse.

It would actually be easier to find a torrent for MSVC full version &
download & install that compared to the rigmorall you have to go through to
get the express edition. I wonder if this is Microsoft's intention?

At this stage I am certainly going to take every step possible to ensure
that my next computer doesn't run windows. With Csound & Python as my
primary music making tools, & a handful of roll your own GUI possibilities i
think i'm looking more than half way there.

I'll keep my current XP box as is & use it as a kind of "orthodox 24 track"
& home mastering toolkit basically (as it's got loads of useful plugins &
mastering stuff on it)

It looks like i'm stipulating cross platform therefore as high on my
priority list.

You used wxDev-C++ to design lettuce then i assume?


rory walsh wrote:
> 
> Hi Tim. Is there something particular you need for your project that 
> Mircosoft offers that MinGW does not? If not I highly recommend MinGW. 
> Together with MSYS it's really a solid build environment. If you are 
> looking for nice IDE I can also recommend Dev-C++ or if you prefer to 
> have a form designer ala MS Visual C++ you can use wxDev-C++(each of 
> these are available with MinGW binaries so you don't have to worry about 
> setting anything up and don't have to download MinGW first). The plus 
> side of all this is that your builds should be fairly easy to port to 
> other platforms.
> 
> Rory.
> 
> 
> 


-----
*******************
www.phasetransitions.net
hermetic music * python * csound * possibly mindless ranting
various werk in perpetual delusions of progress....

-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Microsoft-Visual-C%2B%2B-2008-Express-Edition-tp15525314p16085828.html
Sent from the Csound - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


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> You used wxDev-C++ to design lettuce then i assume?

Unfortunately not I'm afraid which is why it only runs on windows. I 
used Borland C++ which at the time was great but looking back how I 
wished I had used an open source cross-platform GUI toolkit from the 
beginning. That's kind of why I urge you to investigate the free tools 
out there, I would hate to see you pour copious amounts of your own time 
into something that only works on one platform. Needless to say I now 
use cross-platform tools for all my music making endeavours. And like 
you I'm pretty much through with windows. I've a new laptop on order and 
I can safely say it will only be running Linux.

Rory.

p.s. wxDev-C++ is a good way of getting started with C/C++ and GUI 
development, what you learn there is easily exportable to other platforms.


> 
> rory walsh wrote:
>> Hi Tim. Is there something particular you need for your project that 
>> Mircosoft offers that MinGW does not? If not I highly recommend MinGW. 
>> Together with MSYS it's really a solid build environment. If you are 
>

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It's interesting you should say that, as i had some offline chat with David W
yesterday, & thought about this more last night, & I'm thinking something
like this.

My Windows box works. Actually, as it does nothing else except run audio, it
works very well. It's full of useful, generic audio apps great for recording
& touching up demos to send to Britney's management in the hope of getting a
B side & making a kool half a mil in royalties, that sort of thing.

But 95% of my time is now spent working with Python & Csound. Now that I'm
looking to start a C development environment, perhaps this should be the
catalyst for jumping ship & getting a Linux (laptop?) as my way to move
forward, & declare my Windows machine an essentially "closed shop" / a
useful resource there for when it's needed. 

I'm thinking laptop because 1) i'm a bit short on space. 2) I may move at
somepoint in the future (to Cairns, or "out bush", or even back to europe (I
have an EU passport & lived in London for 4 years) so it'd be great to know
i can just pop my core audio environment under my arm & "take off" at a
moments notice...(i have an elderly grandparent keeping me here in Adelaide
at the mo, & a house to go & sort out what to do with once he breaks this
mortal coil...after that, who knows...)

So.... Rory, what are you getting? What would others suggest. I probably
wouldn't be able to afford a fancy soundcard yet (don't need huge number of
ins & outs, 2 is fine, 4 is handy for external FX - 24/32 bit - >=96k def
necessary...) but it would be an absolute necessity for future addition.

What OS package are you going for - & assumedly things like Python & C dev
environs come ready rolled with many Linux releases?

Switch this onto a new Nabble heading / thread if you want to / feel it's
appropriate...

cheers

T.


rory walsh wrote:
> 
>> You used wxDev-C++ to design lettuce then i assume?
> 
>  I've a new laptop on order and 
> I can safely say it will only be running Linux.
> 
> Rory.
> 
> p.s. wxDev-C++ is a good way of getting started with C/C++ and GUI 
> development, what you learn there is easily exportable to other platforms.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


-----
*******************
www.phasetransitions.net
hermetic music * python * csound * possibly mindless ranting
various werk in perpetual delusions of progress....

-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Microsoft-Visual-C%2B%2B-2008-Express-Edition-tp15525314p16107201.html
Sent from the Csound - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


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Tim Mortimer wrote:
..
> But 95% of my time is now spent working with Python & Csound. Now that I'm
> looking to start a C development environment, perhaps this should be the
> catalyst for jumping ship & getting a Linux (laptop?) as my way to move
> forward, & declare my Windows machine an essentially "closed shop" / a
> useful resource there for when it's needed. 

Good to hear. :)

> I probably
> wouldn't be able to afford a fancy soundcard yet (don't need huge number of
> ins & outs, 2 is fine, 4 is handy for external FX - 24/32 bit - >=96k def
> necessary...) but it would be an absolute necessity for future addition.

I'm quite happy with my Terratec Phase 26 USB. 2 ins and 6 outs. and it
was very cheap. (something like 160 euro)

-- 
/Jonatan         [ http://kymatica.com ]

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I'm stuck with Dell laptops for the moment because of work. The great 
thing is that I have a dell docking station that comes with PCI slots 
which means I can still use PCI sound cards. I've been using ubuntu 
quite a lot lately and the move from windows is pretty simple. I'm going 
to probably put debian 64studio on it, I've heard some very good reports 
about it. Gotta dash, good luck with the Britney project!

Rory.


Tim Mortimer wrote:
> It's interesting you should say that, as i had some offline chat with David W
> yesterday, & thought about this more last night, & I'm thinking something
> like this.
> 
> My Windows box works. Actually, as it does nothing else except run audio, it
> works very well. It's full of useful, generic audio apps great for recording
> & touching up demos to send to Britney's management in the hope of getting a
> B side & making a kool half a mil in royalties, that sort of thing.
> 
> But 95% of my time is now spent working with Python & Csound. Now that I'm
> looking to start a C development environment, perhaps this should be the
> catalyst for jumping ship & getting a Linux (laptop?) as my way to move
> forward, & declare my Windows machine an essentially "closed shop" / a
> useful resource there for when it's needed. 
> 
> I'm thinking laptop because 1) i'm a bit short on space. 2) I may move at
> somepoint in the future (to Cairns, or "out bush", or even back to europe (I
> have an EU passport & lived in London for 4 years) so it'd be great to know
> i can just pop my core audio environment under my arm & "take off" at a
> moments notice...(i have an elderly grandparent keeping me here in Adelaide
> at the mo, & a house to go & sort out what to do with once he breaks this
> mortal coil...after that, who knows...)
> 
> So.... Rory, what are you getting? What would others suggest. I probably
> wouldn't be able to afford a fancy soundcard yet (don't need huge number of
> ins & outs, 2 is fine, 4 is handy for external FX - 24/32 bit - >=96k def
> necessary...) but it would be an absolute necessity for future addition.
> 
> What OS package are you going for - & assumedly things like Python & C dev
> environs come ready rolled with many Linux releases?
> 
> Switch this onto a new Nabble heading / thread if you want to / feel it's
> appropriate...
> 
> cheers
> 
> T.
> 
> 
> rory walsh wrote:
>>> You used wxDev-C++ to design lettuce then i assume?
>>  I've a new laptop on order and 
>> I can safely say it will only be running Linux.
>>
>> Rory.
>>
>> p.s. wxDev-C++ is a good way of getting started with C/C++ and GUI 
>> development, what you learn there is easily exportable to other platforms.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
> -----
> *******************
> www.phasetransitions.net
> hermetic music * python * csound * possibly mindless ranting
> various werk in perpetual delusions of progress....
> 

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