On the other hand, I find that widgets are really helpful.
My pieces do not use MIDI at all, just the computer and
simple GUIs. Of course, that's the way I work and I find
that it simplifies things for me. When I rehearse with
a performer all I need is a full-duplex soundcard. My
instruments are mostly automated, so all I need to do
is to press buttons when the score tells me to, with
the odd slider movement here and there. There is no
issue with being too slow in this case.

But I think it might be a good idea if the widget opcodes
could sit in a plugin library. Then you can have them or
not, or even have a different GUI.

Also, with the API, C++ guis are easy to integrate, for
those who want take the trouble to program them.

Victor
> 
> That is a dangerous assumption. We just did a live techno
> show last  night with nothing but csound, and zero screen
> output. The philosophy  behind my software design for my
> real time rig is that everything should  be controllable
> from midi controllers, and that if I need to reach for a 
> mouse or look at a screen, then the interface is too slow.
> The computer  sat on the floor.
> 
> That said, I think the FLTK stuff is cool, but is there
> any reason we  could not have various packages, ie csound,
> csound + FLTK, etc? Would  that just wind up being a
> logisitical nightmare? We can already compile  it without
> fltk and python, etc so what about binary releases that
> are  similar?
> 
> Iain
> 
> 
> Art Hunkins wrote:
> > On-screen graphic widgets - such as FLTK offers - are
> > well-nigh essential for real-time Csound. So much so
> > that unless FLTK or some other cross-platform graphic
> > capability were included in Csound5, we'd be pretty much
> > saying "no" to real-time usage. 
> > Art Hunkins
> > 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Michael Gogins" 
> > To: 
> > Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 9:34 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] Broken again
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >>Your point about libary compatibility for precompiled
> > packages is in 
> > principle correct. This is a well-known problem and the
> > Linux community is working to address it with ABI
> > standards. Nevertheless the problem is not going away
> > very soon. 
> >>However, this is all somewhat theoretical. What are
> > people's actual 
> > experiences with installing Csound 5 with precompiled
> > C++ on different versions of Linux? I'm not talking
> > about CsoundVST here, but about widgets.cpp,
> > fluidOpcodes, and cs4vst. 
> >>Of course, I am always running csound 5 on the system
> > that compiled it. On 
> > Linux and Unix, I think it is considered acceptable to
> > distribute a package in the form of source code and
> > expect the user to compile it, which resolves this
> > problem. 
> >>However, I don't mean to minimize the problem. Users
> > increasingly expect 
> > precompiled packages, and especially for musicians this
> > would be a big plus. 
> >>I initially opposed having the FLTK widgets in the
> > Csound distribution, 
> > but I changed my mind because so many people seemed 
to
> > find them useful or even essential. I would not oppose
> > their removal if the Csound 5 community mostly agreed 
to
> > remove them. 
> >>My points about bugs and speed are separate issues.
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: vanDongen/Gilcher 
> >>Sent: Mar 24, 2005 5:53 AM
> >>To: csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] Broken again
> >>
> >>On Tuesday 22 March 2005 15:27, Michael Gogins 
wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>In my view, Csound would contain fewer bugs and run
> > slightly faster if 
> > it
> > 
> >>>were coded entirely in C++. This view is based on
> experience and >>>experiments, not opinion. I am 
prepared
> to show code samples and >>>experimental results to
> support this view. I would of course be very >>>interested
> > to review code samples and experimental results that 
> > demonstrate
> > 
> >>>the opposite.
> >>>
> >>
> >>My experience is not very extensive, so please correct
> me if I am wrong. >>The biggest problem I have seen with
> > C++ is binary incompatability 
> > between
> > 
> >>libraries and applications using them. This is actually
> not that much of a >>problem for me, just the nuisance
> that upgrading the compiler means >>recompiling all my 
C++
> libraries. And I don't upgrade my compiler that >>often :)
> >>
> >>But for distributing binaries of programs using a shared
> libcsound it is a >>real problem. The program won't run if
> it was compiled for a libcsound >>compiled differently.
> Even a different optimization flag will break binary
> >>compatibility I think. The only solution is to
> > distribute a statically 
> > linked
> > 
> >>private copy of libcsound with your application.
> >>So I think that the ambition of csound5 as a platform
> > independent library 
> > is
> > 
> >>best served by it being pure C.
> >>
> >>(And yes, I think including widgets in core Csound5
> > was/is a mistake. For 
> > one
> > 
> >>thing it assumes that csound will only be run on general
> purpose pc's, and >>that as long as you support windows,
> > Mac and linux you are cross platform. 
> > My
> > 
> >>cell phone has a 400 MHz processor and stereo sound.
> Csound should run on >>that, and it will but without the
> > widgets. Including C++ and widgets in 
> > the
> > 
> >>core csound, will just create a forks for other uses. )
> >>
> >>Gerard
> >>
> >>
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