[Cs-dev] More manual licensing :(
Date | 2010-06-30 21:25 |
From | Felipe Sateler |
Subject | [Cs-dev] More manual licensing :( |
There has been some concern over at the Debian side of things about the licensing of the manual, again. This time the question is complicated (for me to ask, at least): Does the csound project have the right to distribute the manual as GFDL? The basic reasoning is that there are close to none explicit copyright claims, and they seem inconsistent. For example, if the manual was copyright 1986-1992 MIT, and 2003 by Kevin Conder, why can MIT relicense the whole thing as GFDL in 2003? At least Kevin's approval would be needed. Why are there claims on the Alternative manual in 2005, when the history says that by then the Canonical manual was already on sourceforge? Sorry if this sounds like an affront or offense on the credibility of the project and its developers, but I have found no other way to word this, and I haven't been able to answer these questions myself. -- Saludos, Felipe Sateler ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint What will you do first with EVO, the first 4G phone? Visit sprint.com/first -- http://p.sf.net/sfu/sprint-com-first _______________________________________________ Csound-devel mailing list Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net |
Date | 2010-06-30 21:47 |
From | "Dr. Richard Boulanger" |
Subject | Re: [Cs-dev] More manual licensing :( |
Attachments | None None |
Dear Felipe, Kevin had no right (ever) to put any form of copyright on the manual in 2003 or ever - his was "my" manual with some of his .csd examples in it. He offered to help with the formatting back then, and then added his copyright when we were not looking, which was not his to add. It was always MIT's manual - that we added to... myself especially in the beginning with Jean Piche and his team of grad students in the beginning and with john ffitch all along and especially David Boothe and many many others, most recently Andres Cabrera! And mine was the MIT manual Here is the history of what happened when - up the what is happening now.... On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 1:59 PM, Dr. Richard Boulanger <rboulanger@csounds.com> wrote: The manual and all Csound Documentation has been cleared with the MIT Lawyers and is LGPL. I arranged this personally in meetings with the MIT Lawyers and Barry Vercoe. The original copyright message should have been removed. Regarding the history of the manual - This version does NOT come entirely from Kevin Condor's efforts. Here's my recollection:::: Please correct me.... Conder worked with the documentation that I provided and worked on for years (built from Barry's version with serious html conversion/contribution from Jean Piché.) After I made it into a Word document, by scanning, OCR, and then correcting and standardizing every page - from a hard copy provided by Barry; Rasmus Ekman, John ffitch and I added a ton... We then handed off to David Boothe David came on and did an incredible job in re-working, re-arranging, re-wording, standardizing, expanding, and remaking the document. Then came Kevin... who worked with the Boothe document and whom no one else could work with.... He put his name on every page. At my request, Kevin did work on examples for every opcode and added this feature - and these continue to be replaced and revised with new, clear, and more educationally inspired models and examples.... As I understand it, Micheal Gogins came on with some tutorials and installation instructions. But the new and incredibly wonderful (and more information-filled) canonical manual has been in the wonderful hands of Andres Cabrera. Andres has really turned the document into a significantly improved educational and reference document and has been making major corrections and additions. With contributions from many many others (every opcode developer has provided wonderful manual pages and examples), since before 1979, the Music11->Csound documentation torch has mainly been carried and passed through 5 generations from: 1. Vercoe 2. Boulanger - ffitch - ekman - piché 3. Boothe 4. Conder 5. Cabrera - lazzarini - yi - gogins -dB Dr. B. When MIT relicensed Csound as LGPL - they relicensed the manual as GFDL at the same time. I was there with the lawyers and with Barry Vercoe when this took place. On Jun 30, 2010, at 4:25 PM, Felipe Sateler wrote:
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Date | 2010-06-30 22:01 |
From | Felipe Sateler |
Subject | Re: [Cs-dev] More manual licensing :( |
So the wording in the copyright section of the manual is incorrect (the part about the alternative csound manual)? Also, in the Pre-2003 era, was copyright for the improvements assigned to MIT? That is the essence of the question, I think. Also, Kevin can claim copyright on the examples he put in the manual, so while the whole thing is not his, the examples would be (unless all of his examples were removed). On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 16:47, Dr. Richard Boulanger |
Date | 2010-07-02 17:02 |
From | Felipe Sateler |
Subject | Re: [Cs-dev] More manual licensing :( |
Attachments | signature.asc None None |
So, after even more discussion, I think we (the debian side of things) can get over this thing by just getting a statement that the manual is GFDL. The Copyright section of the manual says: This version of the Csound Manual ("The Canonical Csound Manual") is released under the GNU Free Documentation Licence. However, some files in the distribution are not GFDL (the python scripts, for example). Could we get a more explicit version of that statement? Something along the lines of: This version of the Csound Manual ("The Canonical Csound Manual") is released under the GNU Free Documentation Licence. Unless otherwise noted, all files in this package are licensed under this license. -- Saludos, Felipe Sateler |
Date | 2010-07-02 19:52 |
From | Michael Gogins |
Subject | Re: [Cs-dev] More manual licensing :( |
This is fine with me. Regards, Mike On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Felipe Sateler |
Date | 2010-07-04 14:07 |
From | Andres Cabrera |
Subject | Re: [Cs-dev] More manual licensing :( |
Hi, I think it's a pain, but unless we ask Kevin to relicense his examples as GFDL, we would have to remove them... This is the list: andres@cab-laptop:~/src/manual/html$ grep "Kevin Conder" *.html abs.html: |
Date | 2010-07-04 20:02 |
From | Felipe Sateler |
Subject | Re: [Cs-dev] More manual licensing :( |
Attachments | signature.asc None None |
Well, I believe that should be fixed. The manual cannot be licensed under the GFDL unless all contributors agreed to that. On 04/07/10 09:07, Andres Cabrera wrote: > Hi, > > I think it's a pain, but unless we ask Kevin to relicense his examples > as GFDL, we would have to remove them... > > This is the list: > > andres@cab-laptop:~/src/manual/html$ grep "Kevin Conder" *.html > abs.html: |
Date | 2010-07-04 20:07 |
From | Jacob Joaquin |
Subject | Re: [Cs-dev] More manual licensing :( |
On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Felipe Sateler |
Date | 2010-07-05 12:10 |
From | jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk |
Subject | Re: [Cs-dev] More manual licensing :( |
Has anyone attempted to contact Kevin? Does anyone have uptodate coordinates for him? ==John ff > Well, I believe that should be fixed. The manual cannot be licensed > under the GFDL unless all contributors agreed to that. > > On 04/07/10 09:07, Andres Cabrera wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I think it's a pain, but unless we ask Kevin to relicense his examples >> as GFDL, we would have to remove them... >> >> This is the list: >> >> andres@cab-laptop:~/src/manual/html$ grep "Kevin Conder" *.html >> abs.html: |
Date | 2010-07-05 12:33 |
From | David Akbari |
Subject | Re: [Cs-dev] More manual licensing :( |
I just went and looked through a lot of the Conder example files and it seems like most of them I saw were just printing something. This isn't really a good example of the opcodes the manual pages are about anyway. It sounds like a big task but surely the manual could be improved somehow by removing, revising, or replacing Mr. Conder's examples. If I remember correctly from Mr. Conder's original manual a lot of the examples weren't in unified .CSD format as that hadn't become the standard yet. Isn't the work of Andres and others in wrapping the examples in unified .CSD format and adding comments enough of a modification to be GFDL compatible? -David ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint What will you do first with EVO, the first 4G phone? Visit sprint.com/first -- http://p.sf.net/sfu/sprint-com-first _______________________________________________ Csound-devel mailing list Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net |
Date | 2010-07-05 12:38 |
From | Andres Cabrera |
Subject | Re: [Cs-dev] More manual licensing :( |
Hi, On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 12:33 PM, David Akbari |
Date | 2011-07-27 04:26 |
From | Felipe Sateler |
Subject | Re: [Cs-dev] More manual licensing :( |
Revisting an old theme... On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 07:38, Andres Cabrera |