Thanks for expanding on this.

Obviously you are correct, but it is a minor matter to add a few lines at 
the top of these applications to get them working again, no?

Regards,
Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Felipe Sateler" 
To: "Developer discussions" 
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 12:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] Csound 5.12 Request


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On Sat, 2009-10-24 at 15:20 -0400, michael.gogins@gmail.com wrote:
> Thanks for expanding on this.
> 
> Obviously you are correct, but it is a minor matter to add a few lines at 
> the top of these applications to get them working again, no?

My concern is that this should work the way python libraries are
supposed to, the python community being very particular about that sort
of thing. ;-)

If accessing the csound api is done through a csnd namespace, it should
stay that way and people should get what they expect using

import csnd
dir(csnd)

If this requires resolution of system dependent libraries, it *properly*
ought to be handled not by conditional imports but by a correct python
package for csnd wherein running 

python setup.py develop

does the grunt work of resolving system dependencies and installing the
csnd module into site-packages such that it will "just work". I don't
know what this will entail though, maybe it's too complicated to achieve
yet. To really make it a usable python product, ultimately it ought to
be possible to do an easy_install of csnd.py and get a build and install
on the target platform.

Iain

> 
> Regards,
> Mike
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Felipe Sateler" 
> To: "Developer discussions" 
> Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 12:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] Csound 5.12 Request
> 
> 
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
> > is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
> > developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
> > ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
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> 
> 
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On Sat, 2009-10-24 at 12:30 -0700, Iain Duncan wrote:
> On Sat, 2009-10-24 at 15:20 -0400, michael.gogins@gmail.com wrote:
> > Thanks for expanding on this.
> > 
> > Obviously you are correct, but it is a minor matter to add a few lines at 
> > the top of these applications to get them working again, no?

Yes. But, it should be possible to provide a small wrapper for the
default version so that applications do not need to change.

> 
> My concern is that this should work the way python libraries are
> supposed to, the python community being very particular about that sort
> of thing. ;-)
> 
> If accessing the csound api is done through a csnd namespace, it should
> stay that way and people should get what they expect using
> 
> import csnd
> dir(csnd)
> 
> If this requires resolution of system dependent libraries, it *properly*
> ought to be handled not by conditional imports but by a correct python
> package for csnd wherein running 
> 
> python setup.py develop
> 
> does the grunt work of resolving system dependencies and installing the
> csnd module into site-packages such that it will "just work". I don't
> know what this will entail though, maybe it's too complicated to achieve
> yet. To really make it a usable python product, ultimately it ought to
> be possible to do an easy_install of csnd.py and get a build and install
> on the target platform.

The thing is that csnd is not a python package proper, its an addition
on top of a C project. The csnd python wrapper is automatically
generated using SWIG. Using setup.py would only add complexity over the
current scons code (since it can't go away). 

I think the following solution is doable and practical:

1) Rename the python module according to the sample size (csndd and
csndf).
2) Create a csnd.py file which tries to load csndf or csndd into the
csnd namespace. This file could have per-OS defaults. If that fails, it
should try loading the other version.
3) Install the new file alongside the python wrappers.


This way applications do not need to know which version is installed,
and can require a sample size if necessary.


-- 
Saludos,
Felipe Sateler

So getting back to the original post...

Since it sounds like the python issue can be resolved and it's just the details that need sorting, can I get a yes or no on whether csnd.dll will be renamed or not for the next release?  I don't mean to sound obtuse, but the particular wrapper or implementation changes on the python side don't really concern me as long as it's doable in some form or another, because (again) I don't use python.  However, I do need to know whether or not I'm going to have to hack a workaround in my app or not because if the answer is "no" and it can't be renamed then I'll get started on it now since there's no point in delaying.  Otherwise I'll work on something else for a while and wait for the renamed libraries in 5.12.  I suppose there's always the much less desirable option #3, which is to pull all the t
 able generation code out of the floats version and put it in my app directly since that's all I'm really doing with my app using the floats version anyway.  It would be nice if both versions of QuteCsound could be installed side by side again, though.

... or maybe there's a better way that doesn't involve renaming csnd.dll?

Cheers,
~ andy.f



----- "Felipe Sateler"  wrote:
> On Sat, 2009-10-24 at 12:30 -0700, Iain Duncan wrote:
> > On Sat, 2009-10-24 at 15:20 -0400, michael.gogins@gmail.com wrote:
> > > Thanks for expanding on this.
> > > 
> > > Obviously you are correct, but it is a minor matter to add a few
> lines at 
> > > the top of these applications to get them working again, no?
> 
> Yes. But, it should be possible to provide a small wrapper for the
> default version so that applications do not need to change.
> 
> > 
> > My concern is that this should work the way python libraries are
> > supposed to, the python community being very particular about that
> sort
> > of thing. ;-)
> > 
> > If accessing the csound api is done through a csnd namespace, it
> should
> > stay that way and people should get what they expect using
> > 
> > import csnd
> > dir(csnd)
> > 
> > If this requires resolution of system dependent libraries, it
> *properly*
> > ought to be handled not by conditional imports but by a correct
> python
> > package for csnd wherein running 
> > 
> > python setup.py develop
> > 
> > does the grunt work of resolving system dependencies and installing
> the
> > csnd module into site-packages such that it will "just work". I
> don't
> > know what this will entail though, maybe it's too complicated to
> achieve
> > yet. To really make it a usable python product, ultimately it ought
> to
> > be possible to do an easy_install of csnd.py and get a build and
> install
> > on the target platform.
> 
> The thing is that csnd is not a python package proper, its an
> addition
> on top of a C project. The csnd python wrapper is automatically
> generated using SWIG. Using setup.py would only add complexity over
> the
> current scons code (since it can't go away). 
> 
> I think the following solution is doable and practical:
> 
> 1) Rename the python module according to the sample size (csndd and
> csndf).
> 2) Create a csnd.py file which tries to load csndf or csndd into the
> csnd namespace. This file could have per-OS defaults. If that fails,
> it
> should try loading the other version.
> 3) Install the new file alongside the python wrappers.
> 
> 
> This way applications do not need to know which version is installed,
> and can require a sample size if necessary.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Saludos,
> Felipe Sateler


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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