Re: [Cs-dev] Second Draft of 6.05 release notes
Date | 2015-04-23 15:25 |
From | "Art Hunkins" |
Subject | Re: [Cs-dev] Second Draft of 6.05 release notes |
Exciter opcode now included in Android distribution. Art Hunkins ----- Original Message ----- From: "jpff" |
Date | 2015-04-23 15:58 |
From | Michael Gogins |
Subject | Re: [Cs-dev] Second Draft of 6.05 release notes |
Attachments | None None |
Correct. Regards, Mike ----------------------------------------------------- Michael GoginsIrreducible Productions http://michaelgogins.tumblr.com Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com On Thu, Apr 23, 2015 at 10:25 AM, Art Hunkins <abhunkin@uncg.edu> wrote: Exciter opcode now included in Android distribution. |
Date | 2015-04-24 12:40 |
From | Anders Genell |
Subject | [Cs-dev] OT: network synced audio |
Dear devs! My previous attempt to send a mail very similar to this one was lost in the bitwise limbo somewhere. If you actually did receive it and now are faced with the same drivel one more, I sincerely apologize. There were some questions about syncing audio over network recently and it has kept me thinking. I have a sonos system at home with two small speakers and a sub in a 2.1 setup. Each speaker is an independent wireless audio player in its own right, but in the controller software they can be grouped together as a whole. In order to have functioning stereo the stream in each speaker must be closely synced to the other. I wonder how they might achieve that. Or, more importantly, how can it be achieved using e.g. two raspberry pi? My current interest is to make a multi channel sound recording system where each channel (or two channels) are wirelessly synced to all others so that a multichannel file can be created after finished recording session. I was thinking that it e.g. should be possible to sync the beginning of a buffer to a certain time stamp, or something... The reason I send this to the csound dev list is that you are the most clever and experienced audio related devs I know of. Regards, Anders ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y _______________________________________________ Csound-devel mailing list Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net |
Date | 2015-04-24 17:25 |
From | Justin Smith |
Subject | Re: [Cs-dev] OT: network synced audio |
Attachments | None None |
The problem with synchronizing to a time stamp is that knowing the actual time to any accuracy is a hard problem. In fact the difference between the time on any two computers that are supposedly synchronized to the same external source is typically going to be greater than the phase drift between two speakers you are optimistically sending data to over wifi. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clock_synchronization Wireless adds some hard problems here. For example you could get everything calibrated for two speakers to be in phase, but a cat sits down between a speaker and its wireless transmitter, leading to increased data loss and thus larger network delay (assuming use of TCP where you get added delay rather than simply dropped audio data). Or one of the speakers is closer than the other to a running microwave oven (these operate on the same frequency range as wifi). I'm sure one could put together a control system that tracks and corrects for phase drift via a pair of mics in the center, but I'd think the added mic installation would negate any benefit the wireless speaker system provides over a wired one (not to mention the complexity of implementing the control system). A pingback system to track wireless channel latency would be less reliable but also less intrusive, but would potentially require modification to the firmware on the speakers? On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 4:40 AM, Anders Genell <anders.genell@gmail.com> wrote: Dear devs! |
Date | 2015-04-25 22:35 |
From | Pete Goodeve |
Subject | Re: [Cs-dev] OT: network synced audio |
Attachments | None |
Date | 2015-04-25 23:22 |
From | Michael Gogins |
Subject | Re: [Cs-dev] OT: network synced audio |
Attachments | None None |
I have some professional experience here, not much, but some. Without taking measures you will not get adequate sync. If you use the Windows timestamp project system you can get sync within a millisecond or so. This may not be enough for audio, or it may be enough, depending on your requirements. If you need sync for MIDI or other control data this should be good enough. I think other systems of implementing sync on Windows would do no better than the Windows timestamp project. Regards, Mike ----------------------------------------------------- Michael GoginsIrreducible Productions http://michaelgogins.tumblr.com Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 5:35 PM, Pete Goodeve <pete.goodeve@computer.org> wrote: I thought I'd chip in here, even though I'm certainly no expert (!), but |
Date | 2015-04-26 09:55 |
From | Anders Genell |
Subject | Re: [Cs-dev] OT: network synced audio |
Attachments | None None |
Thank you all for these answers! I suppose achieving good enough sync is possible as Sonos (www.sonos.com) manages to do so. There are very little technical information available about the Sonos system, so how they do it is not easily known, unless someone knows someone on the inside. Thus I don't know to what degree of time resolution the individual channels are in synch, but listening to music I know well from other setups on the stereo pair is at least very convincing to my ears. Come to think of it, I should try some mono material. It should then be two identical streams in the speaker, keeping the sound image dead centered. If there is random stream sync variation it should be revealed as random off-axis positioning. In an a anechoic room the directional resolution of hearing around "straight forward"-direction is about one degree for suitable sounds (broad band, short duration). That would correspond to an interaural time difference of about 20 μs for a smallish head (0.2 meters btwn ears). Im not sure that kind of resolution is needed for a home stereo system, but it says something about what ideal sync criterion we're looking at. As you say, Pete, using NTP should be possible in some way. If e.g. having one machine regularly synching its system clock to an official NTP server, and setting it up as local NTP server and having the rest of the machines synch to it, it should be possible to keep the system clocks in good synch. So the question is how to sync an audio stream to the system clock? Does the audio stream have to sync to a sound card clock? Can the sound card clock be synced to system clock? Can the (recorded) stream be synced to the system clock independently of the sound card clock? Maybe for my use case there could be some kind of time code included in the resulting audio file so that individual files from different RPi:s could be merged into a synced multi-channel file? Regards, Anders
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Date | 2015-04-26 22:13 |
From | pete.goodeve@computer.org |
Subject | Re: [Cs-dev] OT: network synced audio |
Attachments | None |
Date | 2015-04-27 08:53 |
From | Anders Genell |
Subject | Re: [Cs-dev] OT: network synced audio |
Attachments | None None |
On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 11:13 PM, <pete.goodeve@computer.org> wrote: On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 10:55:42AM +0200, Anders Genell wrote: Aha! Interesting! That sounds almost exactly like what I want... Haven't ever tried Haiku OS, but maybe it's time.
Yes. Actually, if there was a way to very precisely know the sample clock frequency, and assuming it does not vary during recording, it would likely be enough to just start recording at a very precisely synced moment and then do the interpolation after. So does anybody here know a) how to find an exact value for the sound card clock frequency and b) how to align the first frame of a recording buffer to a certain system clock time? Regards, Anders
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