yes, I think that is all correct

>
> So let's see if I understand correctly (talking about
> ambisonics in Csound):
>
> 1) Zero degrees for all speaker arrangements is east (to
> the right).
>
> 2) 90 degrees is north (straight ahead) for all speaker
> arrangements.
>
> 3) Increasing degrees results in counterclockwise motion;
> decreasing, in clockwise motion.
>
> 4) Your recommendation for stereo is to mix the 8-ring
> format thus: outo a3 + a4 + a5 + a6, a1 + a2 + a7 + a8.
> (a3 through a6 are the Left side channels, the remainder
> the right side channels. This seems to give a good result
> for me. (I tried also: outo a1 + a2 + a3 + a4, a5 + a6 +
> a7 + a8 - which did *not* work.)
>
> Art Hunkins
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Victor Lazzarini" 
> To: "Art Hunkins" ; "Developer
> discussions" ;
>  Cc:
>  Sent: Friday, July 13
> , 2007 2:19 AM Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] [Csnd] bformdec
> 8-ring
>
>
> > yes, now we are back to my original comment,
> > stereo is problematic. The way I do stereo is
> > to use the 8-channel ring and mix the left annd
> > right hand signals down into L-R. That seems to
> > be the most satisfactory.
> >
> > Another thing you can do is binaural. Place the
> > 8 speaker signals through the HRTF, using the
> > known positions and then mixdown the 8 stereo
> > signals. I heard Jean Jacob Hoffman is doing this,
> > perhaps you can look in his site for suggestions.
> >
> > Victor
> >
> > >
> > > Victor,
> > >
> > > I think I'm pretty much with you now, and can verify
> > > both your 8-ring configuration and a comparable 4-ring
> > (quad). >
> > > What doesn't now seem to correspond, however, is
> > > stereo. The doc specifies speaker placement at 330
> > > degrees and 30 degrees. Following the logic that 0
> > > degrees is east, this gives placement appoximately at
> > > mid back right (330) and mid front right (30). In
> > > terms of stereo field it covers the east quadrant
> > > rather than the desired north. My tests seem to verify
> > this. >
> > > Obviously the problem arises because coverage of the
> > > soundspace is not symmetrical. What do we do about
> > this? >
> > > Art Hunkins
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Victor Lazzarini" 
> > > To: "Art Hunkins" ; "Developer
> > > discussions" 
> > > Cc: 
> > > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 5:43 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] [Csnd] bformdec 8-ring
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > I observe two issues:
> > > > > 1) Your zero-degree point is 90 degrees to the
> > > > > listener's right. The documentation implies that
> > > > > zero is immediately in front of the listener (this
> > > > > is also intuitive). 2) The documentation implies
> > > > > clockwise movement (as degrees increase), not
> > > > > counterclockwise movement. This clockwise movement
> > > > > implies channel/speaker numbers increasing with
> > > clockwise movement. >
> > > > That's right, the documentation is problematic. 0
> > > > degrees is right (east), 90 is front (north), 180
> > > > left (west) and 270 back (south). This is not so
> > > > counter-intuitive, as it just a trigonometric
> > > circle. >
> > > > >
> > > > > Would you agree that your speaker setup,
> > > > > reinterpreted in light of the above, is the
> > > > > equivalent of the following stereo pairs (front to
> > > > > back) - rotated 90 degrees counterclockwise (to
> > > > > put zero straight ahead) and with numbering
> > > > > reversed (so as to rotate clockwise): (8,1) (7,2)
> > > > > (6,3) (5,4) or outc a8, a1, a7 , a2, a6, a3, a5,
> > > a4 (with respect to bformdec outputs) >
> > > > I am not sure I follow it. The speaker setup is as I
> > > > gave in my e-mail and that is what should be figured
> > > > in the manual page. Angles are not clockwise. It's
> > > > just easy to apply the numbering I gave. The
> > > > numbering I gave is for stereo pairs (L, R) front to
> > > > back. The one you listed does not work. Front is
> > > > 3,2 (not 8,1) etc.; so you will have:
> > > >
> > > > a1,a2,a3,a4,a5,a6,a7,a8  bformdec  ...
> > > > outq a3,a2,a4,a1,a5,a8,a6,a7
> > > >
> > > > if you have the following speaker/channels from the
> > > > front:
> > > >              1               2
> > > >  3                                      4
> > > >
> > > >  5                                      6
> > > >
> > > >             7                 8
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Furthermore, I assume that applying all the same
> > > > > reasoning to quad, but with the usual quad
> > > > > numbering (channels) for outq (LF = 1, LR = 2,
> > > > > etc.): outq a4, a3, a1, a2 (With this setup, quad
> > > ambisonics seems to work for me.) >
> > > > I have not tested quad, so I can't tell. I suggest
> > > > it would be RF,LF,LB,RB (counterclockwise starting
> > > from RF). >
> > > > >
> > > > > Somehow, I should think we need to get csound's
> > > > > ambisonic audio output into a format that is
> > > > > readily understandable by all. To my mind, the out
> > > > > statement is the place to do this.
> > > >
> > > > I hope this is clearer.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Art Hunkins
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Victor Lazzarini"
> > > > >  To: "Developer
> > > > > discussions" ;
> > > > > ; "Art Hunkins"
> > > > >  Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007
> > > > > 1:47 PM Subject: Re: [Csnd] [Cs-dev] bformdec
> > > > 8-ring >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Ok, we'll leave the angles out. Say your speaker
> > > > > > set up for a ring is:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1. mid front right
> > > > > > 2. front right
> > > > > > 3. front left
> > > > > > 4. mid front left
> > > > > > 5. mid back left
> > > > > > 6. back left
> > > > > > 7. back right
> > > > > > 8. mid back right
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Then you can plugin bformat outs 1-8 straight
> > > > > into 1-8. >
> > > > > > If you are working pair-wise L-R from the front,
> > > > > > then your pairs will be bformat outputs (3,2)
> > > > > > (4,1) (5,8) and (6,7).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I hope this clears it up.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Victor
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I am very confused, and it may well be at
> > > > > > > least partly on the conceptual level.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm trying to understand the bformdec
> > > > > > > documentation. It describes speaker placement,
> > > > > > > for quad, as starting at right front and
> > > > > > > running clockwise to left front. It also
> > > > > > > references degrees (on a unit circle), with
> > > > > > > straight ahead being zero degrees and degrees
> > > > > > > moving clockwise through 360. I think I
> > > > > > > understand this so far. (No reference is made
> > > > > > to angles; since I am math-challenged, I would
> > > > > > > like to leave them out of the discussion.) >
> > > > > > > If one is dealing with quad output from
> > > > > > bformdec: a1, a2, a3, a4 bformdec >
> > > > > > > the output options seem to be:
> > > > > > > 1) outq a1, a2, a3, a4
> > > > > > > requiring verbal explanation of what this
> > > > > > > actually means in terms of speaker placement
> > > > > > > (as in "channel 1 is RF, channel 2 is RR" etc.
> > > > > > ; or >
> > > > > > > 2) outq a4, a3, a1, a2
> > > > > > > reinterpreting bformdec's output in terms of
> > > > > > > normal quad speaker/channel terminology -
> > > > > > > which (if I understand correctly) is LF = 1,
> > > > > > LR = 2, RF = 3, RR = 4. >
> > > > > > > I've less idea what such a reinterpretation
> > > > > > > might be for 8-channel circular mode. I've
> > > > > > > made the assumption (which certainly needs
> > > > > > > explanation to the "user") that the (normal?)
> > > > > > > counting of channels procedes in stereo pairs
> > > > > > > from front to rear. Assuming this, the output
> > > > > > line would read: 2) outo a8, a1, a7, a2, a6, a3,
> > > > > > > a5, a4 > I'd much appreciate being shown the
> > > > > > > error of my assumptions and thinking. There's
> > > > > > > either something wrong with my thinking, or
> > > > > > > with bformdoc, because - as I mentioned before
> > > > > > > - I'm not getting expected results with either
> > > > > > > quad or 8-channel bformdec. Using my test file
> > > > > > > , there is no speaker arrangement in which get
> > > > > > > a clear circular movement through 360 degrees.
> > > > > > > The placement is simply wrong , particularly
> > > > > > > in the range from 90 - 270 degrees. (I'm
> > > > > > depending principally on strong aural and visual
> > > > > > > LED evidence in a quad setting.) > Victor is
> > > > > > happy; I'm not. >
> > > > > > > And I'd still like to try out john ff's
> > > > > > > proposed bformdec, if there's any way to do
> > > > > > so. >
> > > > > > > Art Hunkins
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "Victor Lazzarini"
> > > > > > >  To: "Developer
> > > > > > > discussions"
> > > > > > >  Sent:
> > > > > > Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:10 AM Subject:
> > > > > > [Cs-dev] bformdec 8-ring > >
> > > > > > > > Dear all,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I just ran the bformdec using the 8-ring
> > > > > > > > setup in the studio and as I said before
> > > > > > > > here it works as expected. The speaker
> > > > > > > positions are as follows: >
> > > > > > > > bformdec out                    speaker pos
> > > > > > > > (degrees) 1
> > > > > > > > 22.5 2                       67.5
> > > > > > > > 3                       112.5
> > > > > > > > 4                       157.5
> > > > > > > > 5                       202.5
> > > > > > > > 6                       247.5
> > > > > > > > 7                       292.5
> > > > > > > > 8                       337.5
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Angles are measured counterclockwise from
> > > > > > > > the right, so right -> 0, front ->90,  left
> > > > > > > ->180 and back 270. >
> > > > > > > > Victor
> > > > > > > > Victor Lazzarini
> > > > > > > > Music Technology Laboratory
> > > > > > > > Music Department
> > > > > > > > National University of Ireland, Maynooth
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
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