Hi all,

I curious, how are the csound devs doing any development work
with the sourceforge CVS servers being down?

Isn't this a good indication that its time to move development
to a rev control system that is better maintained and more
featureful? IN particular a distributed VC system has no 
central point of failure like CVS does.

Over the last year, I have looked at 100s of projects and Csound
and FLAC are the only ones still under CVS.

Erik
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Erik de Castro Lopo
http://www.mega-nerd.com/

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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We've been exchanging files off-line (for a few bug fixes). We'll have  
to wait for it to go back and then
decide.

Victor

On 3 Feb 2011, at 08:13, Erik de Castro Lopo wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I curious, how are the csound devs doing any development work
> with the sourceforge CVS servers being down?
>
> Isn't this a good indication that its time to move development
> to a rev control system that is better maintained and more
> featureful? IN particular a distributed VC system has no
> central point of failure like CVS does.
>
> Over the last year, I have looked at 100s of projects and Csound
> and FLAC are the only ones still under CVS.
>
> Erik
> -- 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Erik de Castro Lopo
> http://www.mega-nerd.com/
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)!
> Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better  
> price-free!
> Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires
> February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsight-sfd2d
> _______________________________________________
> Csound-devel mailing list
> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better price-free!
Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires 
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SF seem to be encouraging a move to SVN.  I was intending asking for
opinions as soon as the current crisis os over.
  Personally i have changed very little as this coincided with marking
time -- almost finished now.
==John ff

> We've been exchanging files off-line (for a few bug fixes). We'll have
> to wait for it to go back and then
> decide.
>
> Victor
>
> On 3 Feb 2011, at 08:13, Erik de Castro Lopo wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I curious, how are the csound devs doing any development work
>> with the sourceforge CVS servers being down?
>>
>> Isn't this a good indication that its time to move development
>> to a rev control system that is better maintained and more
>> featureful? IN particular a distributed VC system has no
>> central point of failure like CVS does.
>>
>> Over the last year, I have looked at 100s of projects and Csound
>> and FLAC are the only ones still under CVS.
>>
>> Erik
>> --
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Erik de Castro Lopo
>> http://www.mega-nerd.com/
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)!
>> Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better
>> price-free!
>> Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires
>> February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY!
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsight-sfd2d
>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)!
> Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better
> price-free!
> Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires
> February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsight-sfd2d
> _______________________________________________
> Csound-devel mailing list
> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>
>
>



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)!
Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better price-free!
Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires 
February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY! 
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I know nothing about this subject, but wouldn't moving to git or
mercurial allow better management of patches and branches?

Cheers,
Andres

On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 9:23 AM,   wrote:
> SF seem to be encouraging a move to SVN.  I was intending asking for
> opinions as soon as the current crisis os over.
>  Personally i have changed very little as this coincided with marking
> time -- almost finished now.
> ==John ff
>
>> We've been exchanging files off-line (for a few bug fixes). We'll have
>> to wait for it to go back and then
>> decide.
>>
>> Victor
>>
>> On 3 Feb 2011, at 08:13, Erik de Castro Lopo wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I curious, how are the csound devs doing any development work
>>> with the sourceforge CVS servers being down?
>>>
>>> Isn't this a good indication that its time to move development
>>> to a rev control system that is better maintained and more
>>> featureful? IN particular a distributed VC system has no
>>> central point of failure like CVS does.
>>>
>>> Over the last year, I have looked at 100s of projects and Csound
>>> and FLAC are the only ones still under CVS.
>>>
>>> Erik
>>> --
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Erik de Castro Lopo
>>> http://www.mega-nerd.com/
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)!
>>> Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better
>>> price-free!
>>> Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires
>>> February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY!
>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsight-sfd2d
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)!
>> Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better
>> price-free!
>> Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires
>> February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY!
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsight-sfd2d
>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)!
> Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better price-free!
> Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires
> February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsight-sfd2d
> _______________________________________________
> Csound-devel mailing list
> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)!
Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better price-free!
Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires 
February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY! 
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_______________________________________________
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https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound

jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk wrote:

> SF seem to be encouraging a move to SVN.  I was intending asking for
> opinions as soon as the current crisis os over.

SVN is a improvement over CVS mainly because a bunch of 
distributed revision control clients can talk to it (at least
bzr and git, possibly others).

In addition, from the user's perspective SVN is not vastly
different from CVS and hence easiest to transition to.

However, it seems that on top of CVS and SVN, Sourceforge also
supports Git, Mercurial, and Bazaar which are all distributed
revision control systems which have certain advantages [0].

Erik

[0] https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Distributed_revision_control
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Erik de Castro Lopo
http://www.mega-nerd.com/

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)!
Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better price-free!
Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires 
February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY! 
http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsight-sfd2d
_______________________________________________
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Andres Cabrera wrote:

> I know nothing about this subject, but wouldn't moving to git or
> mercurial allow better management of patches and branches?

Yes, I think it would. SVN's handling of branches has improved
but its still nowhere near as sophisticated as Git, Mercurial or Bzr.

As a disclaimer, I use:

  - BZR for most of my own projects.
  - SVN for 80 or so projects at my work.
  - Darcs for a couple of Haskell related projects.
  - Git occasionally.
  - Hg (Mercurial) ocassionally. 

AFAIAC, all RCSs have flaws, although CVS especially so and SVN
to a lesser extent have more than their fair share.

Erik
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Erik de Castro Lopo
http://www.mega-nerd.com/

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)!
Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better price-free!
Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires 
February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY! 
http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsight-sfd2d
_______________________________________________
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So what would be your suggestion? If we are changing, we may as well  
use the best service out there.

Victor
On 3 Feb 2011, at 10:00, Erik de Castro Lopo wrote:

> Andres Cabrera wrote:
>
>> I know nothing about this subject, but wouldn't moving to git or
>> mercurial allow better management of patches and branches?
>
> Yes, I think it would. SVN's handling of branches has improved
> but its still nowhere near as sophisticated as Git, Mercurial or Bzr.
>
> As a disclaimer, I use:
>
>  - BZR for most of my own projects.
>  - SVN for 80 or so projects at my work.
>  - Darcs for a couple of Haskell related projects.
>  - Git occasionally.
>  - Hg (Mercurial) ocassionally.
>
> AFAIAC, all RCSs have flaws, although CVS especially so and SVN
> to a lesser extent have more than their fair share.
>
> Erik
> -- 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Erik de Castro Lopo
> http://www.mega-nerd.com/
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)!
> Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better  
> price-free!
> Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires
> February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsight-sfd2d
> _______________________________________________
> Csound-devel mailing list
> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)!
Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better price-free!
Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires 
February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY! 
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_______________________________________________
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There are two isues to my mind

1) Preserving the checkin-history

2) lerning another way to do things.

wrt 2 i use cvs for a few things and svn for others, plus  acoup eof bzr 
I am perpetually getting in a mess with svn, and I really dislike some of
its features.  I hear what everyone says, but one of teh bzr project
screws up regularly, and CVS is the only one that "just works" for me.

Perhaps I am too old to learn new tricks

==John ff

> So what would be your suggestion? If we are changing, we may as well
> use the best service out there.
>
> Victor
> On 3 Feb 2011, at 10:00, Erik de Castro Lopo wrote:
>
>> Andres Cabrera wrote:
>>
>>> I know nothing about this subject, but wouldn't moving to git or
>>> mercurial allow better management of patches and branches?
>>
>> Yes, I think it would. SVN's handling of branches has improved
>> but its still nowhere near as sophisticated as Git, Mercurial or Bzr.
>>
>> As a disclaimer, I use:
>>
>>  - BZR for most of my own projects.
>>  - SVN for 80 or so projects at my work.
>>  - Darcs for a couple of Haskell related projects.
>>  - Git occasionally.
>>  - Hg (Mercurial) ocassionally.
>>
>> AFAIAC, all RCSs have flaws, although CVS especially so and SVN
>> to a lesser extent have more than their fair share.
>>
>> Erik
>> --
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Erik de Castro Lopo
>> http://www.mega-nerd.com/
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)!
>> Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better
>> price-free!
>> Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires
>> February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY!
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsight-sfd2d
>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)!
> Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better
> price-free!
> Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires
> February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsight-sfd2d
> _______________________________________________
> Csound-devel mailing list
> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>
>
>



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better price-free!
Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires 
February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY! 
http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsight-sfd2d
_______________________________________________
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For myself, I am a big fan of Mercurial and use it for my own personal
projects, whether it is a repository per-composition and also for
blue.  On sourceforge, I have converted from cvs -> svn -> mercurial.
There are conversion scripts readily available for converting from x
to hg(mercurial).  However, almost every version control system has
some means to convert from cvs as well as svn.

I used to use SVN for my personal work but switched to hg about 4
years ago, mainly so I could do commits of work locally (i.e. at a
cafe, on an airplane, etc.) that I could push to my main repo later.

I use SVN at work and much prefer it to CVS as I think it does
branches/merging a lot better than CVS. I prefer hg over SVN though.
All DVCS (distributed version control systems) I think work pretty
similarly for copies of the repo as branches.  I find this is useful
for doing exploratory work locally that may or may not get pushed back
in to the main repo.

I find most distributed version control systems to be similar.  I
think git would be a fine alternative.

I think hg's commandline commands are very similar to cvs/svn, so
that's a draw to me (the commands are pretty much the same).  In terms
of tooling, I think there are a number of good graphical tools for
managing hg and git, as well as plugins to IDE's for both of those
tools.

My preference is: if we switch to a DVCS, I would vote for hg first,
git second.  If we don't switch to a DVCS, then I would say let's move
to SVN.

Sidenote: I wrote a brief intro to managing music projects with Mercurial here:

http://www.csounds.com/journal/issue7/managingProjectsWithMercurial.html

It discusses some background info on distributed version control
systems and is somewhat of a light tutorial on hg usage.

For anyone: SVN usage is pretty similar to CVS, so I don't think
there's too much of a learning curve there.  For distributed version
control systems, if you haven't tried them I'd recommend downloading
hg and git and doing a 5 minute exercise with each to create a repo,
make a text file, commit, modify, commit again, clone.  Next modify
the file in both original repo and clone, commit in each, then push
from clone to original to see how conflict resolution works with
pushes.  Then try a change in the original and pulling the changes to
the clone and then updating after the pull (or use a pull and update
at same time, i.e. "hg pull -u").  That should give somewhat of a
sense of how working with DVCS's feels.


On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 6:01 AM,   wrote:
> There are two isues to my mind
>
> 1) Preserving the checkin-history
>
> 2) lerning another way to do things.
>
> wrt 2 i use cvs for a few things and svn for others, plus  acoup eof bzr
> I am perpetually getting in a mess with svn, and I really dislike some of
> its features.  I hear what everyone says, but one of teh bzr project
> screws up regularly, and CVS is the only one that "just works" for me.
>
> Perhaps I am too old to learn new tricks
>
> ==John ff
>
>> So what would be your suggestion? If we are changing, we may as well
>> use the best service out there.
>>
>> Victor
>> On 3 Feb 2011, at 10:00, Erik de Castro Lopo wrote:
>>
>>> Andres Cabrera wrote:
>>>
>>>> I know nothing about this subject, but wouldn't moving to git or
>>>> mercurial allow better management of patches and branches?
>>>
>>> Yes, I think it would. SVN's handling of branches has improved
>>> but its still nowhere near as sophisticated as Git, Mercurial or Bzr.
>>>
>>> As a disclaimer, I use:
>>>
>>>  - BZR for most of my own projects.
>>>  - SVN for 80 or so projects at my work.
>>>  - Darcs for a couple of Haskell related projects.
>>>  - Git occasionally.
>>>  - Hg (Mercurial) ocassionally.
>>>
>>> AFAIAC, all RCSs have flaws, although CVS especially so and SVN
>>> to a lesser extent have more than their fair share.
>>>
>>> Erik
>>> --
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Erik de Castro Lopo
>>> http://www.mega-nerd.com/
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)!
>>> Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better
>>> price-free!
>>> Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires
>>> February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY!
>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsight-sfd2d
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Csound-devel mailing list
>>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)!
>> Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better
>> price-free!
>> Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires
>> February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY!
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsight-sfd2d
>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-devel mailing list
>> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)!
> Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better price-free!
> Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires
> February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsight-sfd2d
> _______________________________________________
> Csound-devel mailing list
> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better price-free!
Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires 
February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY! 
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_______________________________________________
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I took a look at the various documents on the DRCS and so far I have
not seen the advantage over CVS.
  GIT seems less well supported on Windows, and the others two seem
the same on the comparisons I read.  Emacs uses bzr, but as a
non-developer it does seem complex.  Actually never heard of Mercurial
before these messages.

==John ffitch

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The modern datacenter depends on network connectivity to access resources
and provide services. The best practices for maximizing a physical server's
connectivity to a physical network are well understood - see how these
rules translate into the virtual world? 
http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnlfb
_______________________________________________
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GIT works fine on Windows, in fact that is where I am using it at
work. It's much easier to use than CVS and much faster too.

Regards,
Mike

On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 9:47 AM, john ffitch  wrote:
> I took a look at the various documents on the DRCS and so far I have
> not seen the advantage over CVS.
>  GIT seems less well supported on Windows, and the others two seem
> the same on the comparisons I read.  Emacs uses bzr, but as a
> non-developer it does seem complex.  Actually never heard of Mercurial
> before these messages.
>
> ==John ffitch
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The modern datacenter depends on network connectivity to access resources
> and provide services. The best practices for maximizing a physical server's
> connectivity to a physical network are well understood - see how these
> rules translate into the virtual world?
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnlfb
> _______________________________________________
> Csound-devel mailing list
> Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel
>



-- 
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The modern datacenter depends on network connectivity to access resources
and provide services. The best practices for maximizing a physical server's
connectivity to a physical network are well understood - see how these
rules translate into the virtual world? 
http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnlfb
_______________________________________________
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