It is better to have all information that anyone really needs to build, use, or develop Csound in one location.

Duplicating some of this information between a Wiki and a manual is bound to cause confusion as one of them inevitably becomes out of date with respect to the other. I have seen this at work and in many other projects.

Having some information in a Wiki and other information in a manual is less confusing, but still not as useful as having everything necessary in one manual.

I don't think the Csound manual is very out of date at all, on the contrary it has been receiving useful and timely updates from many people; and it will soon contain reasonably complete and up to date Linux build instructions.

Regards,
Mike

-----Original Message-----
>From: Art Hunkins 
>Sent: Jan 18, 2007 11:16 AM
>To: Developer discussions 
>Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] alsa & dmix on OLPC -- help needed.
>
>Jonathan makes a lot of sense.
>
>Art Hunkins
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Jonathan Murphy" 
>To: "Developer discussions" 
>Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 8:40 AM
>Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] alsa & dmix on OLPC -- help needed.
>
>
>>
>> Hi Steven,
>>
>> Thanks for your patience and forbearance.
>>
>> > BTW: Should I write something about this in the manual?
>>
>> I've been thinking about this kind of thing a lot lately. When I first
>> started to use Csound, sometime late 2005, there was little online
>> information regarding installation of Csound5 on Linux. There was a
>> great article by Dave Phillips, but the focus was primarily on new
>> features, rather than on how to get things working. If nothing else, I'm
>> stubborn, so I googled for a week or so and managed to compile from
>> CVS, and promptly wrote a brief howto on the Csound5 forums page. For
>> a while, it was quite popular, and people wrote in regarding
>> problems/complications. I was watching the post, and so was Istvan, so
>> by and large readers got informed (Istvan) and simple (self)
>> explanations. The major problem was that it was geared towards
>> then current versions of software such as alsa, jack, python,
>> fluidsynth, and also particular distributions (at the time I was using
>> Ubuntu, Istvan was using Planet CCRMA). Eventually it disappeared
>> (which is good). The thing is, although I no longer use Ubuntu, nor
>> (for that matter) any of the mainstream Linux distributions, I still
>> use csound5 CVS, and install it in much the same manner described, and
>> the bare bones of the installation method still apply. The core of
>> that experience could have been retained, and would still prove useful
>> to others.
>>
>> It seems to me that the Canonical Csound Reference Manual should deal
>> primarily with the aspects of Csound that change relatively rarely. It
>> should be as Canonical as possible. Installation and configuration
>> instructions for the various platforms will change rapidly, and are
>> only ever going to be a major PITA for developers in general and
>> Andres in particular, if they are to be constantly updated in the
>> manual. Every couple of days someone is going to write to the user
>> list saying "I followed the instructions to the letter but blah isn't
>> working." The rate of change of the manual is not such that it can
>> keep pace with the change in development of every strand of every
>> platform that Csound can be compiled upon, and it should not be
>> expected to be able to do so.
>>
>> On the other hand, the wiki can, and is in fact specifically designed
>> to be able to do this sort of thing. If someone finds that information
>> is outdated, they can simply change it, or add a note to the effect
>> that "I tried this but foobar.deb is no longer available. I had to do
>> this to get things working." If a developer or experienced Csounder
>> was the original author of the page in question, this would improve
>> things hundredfold. They could subscribe to the page (all you need to
>> do is click on a button), then when any changes to the page are made,
>> they will be notified via email, and they can check the veracity of
>> the information, add notes as required and so on, all this without the
>> requirement of any party having CVS write access. The wiki has the
>> potential to harness all of the energy of all of the people who use
>> Csound, not just the developers, who (I imagine) are already
>> overextended by their jobs, musical output, relationships and so
>> forth. If it reaches a certain critical mass, then it will become
>> almost self-maintaining. As an example of this possibility, although
>> not a Csound developer, nor associated with the OLPC project, I have
>> just added a link to the Csound page on the OLPC Wiki on the
>> CsoundWiki.
>>
>>
>http://tobiah.org/csoundwiki/ExternalLinks#head-b232301da10556a7340c794705628f4139a59aec
>>
>> Anyone with an interest in these projects could have done so, provided
>> that they have internet access and a browser. On the other hand, if
>> someone had wanted to add similar information to the manual (from the
>> above it should be apparent that I don't think it would necessarily be
>> a good idea), they would have either had to have had CVS write access,
>> or written persuasively to one of the lists. The wiki is a fluid
>> informatic zone, with enormous potential. The manual is by comparison
>> static, but this is precisely the task of a manual, except when new
>> circumstances arise, or it is generally recognised that an
>> improvement be made.
>>
>> When Mike posted to the user list saying that he was going to write up
>> his experiences and suggestions regarding compiling Csound on Ubuntu,
>> and add them to the manual, my feelings were mixed, as follows:
>>
>> 1. Fantastic. I admire, respect, and seek to emulate the dedication
>>    of (all) developers, (but) particularly when they take the time to
>>    provide documentation for newcomers.
>>
>> 2. That's exactly what I did a year and a half ago, and I found that
>>    it needed to be updated every couple of weeks, as the distribution
>>    packages changed. I tried to do this, but found that other tasks
>>    were more pressing, and that I was unable to do so.
>>
>> 3. I really hope that he puts it up on the wiki instead.
>>
>> The wiki really needs the support of Csound developers. The wiki
>> format is particularly good for some kinds of information, such as
>> that which you have provided regarding dmix. I know that you will do
>> as you think best, and that is one of the reasons that you have my
>> utmost respect. The foregoing is merely my opinion regarding desirable
>> methods for propagating differing types of information.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Jonathan.
>>
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