How much speed are you talking about here? 

Have you tried using 64 bits and found it too slow? Or are you guessing?

Best,
Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Iain Duncan 
Sent: Nov 7, 2005 1:55 PM
To: csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] CVS Reorganization Request


> Well, as you know, I think having 32 bits and 64 bits is a bad idea. It should just be 64 bits. So I am utterly indifferent to this question. I never build or use 32 bits.
> 
> It continues to escape me why everyone else doesn't do the same. If it sometimes sounds better and is inarguably more precise and only runs a little slower, and oh yes it's much simpler to only build for 64 bits, what's the big deal? Are we musicians here or software engineering speed demons? 
> 
> At the end of the day, Csound is a musical instrument and its only purpose is to make music.

Ah, but some of us are live performers, and the speed *does* matter, 
very very much. I am and will be for many years yet picking which 
corners to cut in order to get close to what I want running in real 
time. So I think it is good to still be able to run 32 bits.

Iain


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> How much speed are you talking about here? 
> 
> Have you tried using 64 bits and found it too slow? Or are you guessing?

I have a 64 bit machine, so I'm probably fine. But I intend my sets to 
be runnable on 32 bit machines, and I know that

a) in a night club, 64 bit will not sound noticeably better
b) it will, to some unknown degree, be slower on a 32 bit machine.

To what degree, I admit I don't know. I do know that many plugins on 
other systems do run slower if using high bit rates ( reverbs etc ). So 
I think it's unwise to force csound users to go 64 bit if they don't 
need to.

Iain



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If we're talking about a *lot* of extra work, I could run heavy load 
tests of both if you'd like.

Iain

Michael Gogins wrote:
> How much speed are you talking about here? 
> 
> Have you tried using 64 bits and found it too slow? Or are you guessing?
> 
> Best,
> Mike
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Iain Duncan 
> Sent: Nov 7, 2005 1:55 PM
> To: csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] CVS Reorganization Request
> 
> 
> 
>>Well, as you know, I think having 32 bits and 64 bits is a bad idea. It should just be 64 bits. So I am utterly indifferent to this question. I never build or use 32 bits.
>>
>>It continues to escape me why everyone else doesn't do the same. If it sometimes sounds better and is inarguably more precise and only runs a little slower, and oh yes it's much simpler to only build for 64 bits, what's the big deal? Are we musicians here or software engineering speed demons? 
>>
>>At the end of the day, Csound is a musical instrument and its only purpose is to make music.
> 
> 
> Ah, but some of us are live performers, and the speed *does* matter, 
> very very much. I am and will be for many years yet picking which 
> corners to cut in order to get close to what I want running in real 
> time. So I think it is good to still be able to run 32 bits.
> 
> Iain
> 
> 
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> SF.Net email is sponsored by:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
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Michael Gogins wrote:

> How much speed are you talking about here? 
> 
> Have you tried using 64 bits and found it too slow? Or are you guessing?

The difference depends on the type of operations being performed,
and possibly also the availability of special CPU instructions
(SSE etc.) for the selected floating point type. Actually, as long
as you are only using 387 instructions, everything is calculated
with 80 bits of precision internally, and the use of floats or
doubles only affects memory loads and stores. Thus, some code will
run at about the same speed, while in other cases there may be
a significant slowdown (I found that FFT, for example, is almost
twice as slow with doubles on my machine). Also, the increased
memory usage may be an issue sometimes (e.g. loading many large
samples with GEN01).
While support for 32 bit floats may still be worth keeping, I am
not sure if making major changes to the build system only to allow
building with both types at the same time in the same source tree
is worth the effort.


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